I recently read an article by Ken Waters on the "Lo-wall" variation of the Win 1885 SS in an old issue of "Rifle," (#44 March-April 1976) one of his "Classic Rifles" series.

In it he mentions the "Lightweight Carbine" variation (rather scathingly--I wonder what he would have made of the 16 1/2" "Winchester" Hi-wall carbines recently marketed in such calibers as .45-70 and .30-40!) but also says there was a standard Lo-wall .44-40 carbine with 20" barrel instead of the 15" barrel of the "Lightweight."

I've seen the latter, some of them with Australian brand markings like "Stinger," but never an authentic 20".44 WCF carbine (I've seen some Lo-walls that had been cut down from rifles, but all of them were obvious non-factory work on a Plain Sporter with octagon #1 barrel).

Anybody see one of these 20" .44 carbines? Was it "lettered"? Waters mentions that some of them had saddle rings--never seen one of those, either.

Don't remember this variation from Campbell's books, either.

Campbell writes of them in his book as being built on the flat side low wall receiver as either coming in a 15" or 16" barrel, having a saddle ring and chambered in the 4 common pistol calibers. They were the lowest priced in the 1885 Winchester line. They had round barrels and no schnable or insert in the forearm. No mention of 20" barrels. many were sent to NZ, and Aus. and marked Stinger or Daisy
If you go to the Winchester Collectors website, Bert Hartman can probably help you out as he has cataloged most of the 1885's. I would think the forearm and the saddle ring would be a good indicator of whether it's legit or cut off.

Thanks, Bob. I'll try Hartman. I love carbines and Lo-walls and would like to try making a "replica" of the one Waters describes, using a modern (foreign) action from Miroku or Uberti. Just would like to know if it would actually be a replica of something that ever existed, or just my personal pipe dream.

I've handled Lo-wall "carbines" made from original rifles and can see why the owner desecrated the Winchester. They do handle nice.