I am missing one of the two very tiny screws that secure the cap or bar at the end of windage arm that holds the windage screw and knob in place. Lyman doesn't stock them anymore but they tell me it is a 1/16-64 UNFS-2A thread. Does anyone on this site have one for sale or know where I can find this screw? Apparently it's easier to find a fossil of Archeopteryx than this screw.

Jerry Liles

I may have one. I'll check in the morning and let yopu know.

Wow! That is a tiny little screw. Sounds like something that might be used in optics or eyeglasses. Maybe a well stocked optician could help you out.

It is itsy bitsy for sure. I've tried online but can't see where anyone stocks such a size screw. I'll need to check with the optician and try hobby sites that do miniature machining and models. Unless, of course, Bill comes through with the screw.

I do appreciate the response.

Jerry Liles

Jerry,
I thought these were 2-56 screws which might be a bit easier to find. Your missing screw was produced with slotted flat heads and slotted rounded heads. Since either will be hard to find in a slot headed screw the size and pitch this issue is moot.

Another note on the 48's--I have been told that the windage screws and elevation screws for 48's were produced with different pitches through the long history of production so the taps and dies I got from Victor Machinery to make the windage screw for the damaged sight that I got for my 400 Whelen project are only for the version that I have. Fortunately Michael had the needed parts so didn't have to make a screw.

Ah, firearms archeology. Hope you are retired like me so that the quest for a little tiny screw doesn't make you crazy.
Dennis

I'm a mere 68 in three days and looking at another 4 years till retirement.

The needed screw is a slotted flat head. A dome shaped flat spring that tensions the windage screw and provides the clicks for the knob is anchored by fitting over the head of the missing screw to keep it from turning. I do not know all the evolutionary changes that have occurred in the 48's long production life but I wouldn't be surprised to find the screw sizes changed more than once.

I miss Michael's expertise and resources.

Jerry Liles

Miniature screws are available, but the closest standard size is a number 0, which is available only in 80TPI. The next size, number 1 is available in 64 TPI. It is 0.073" nominal diameter and might be convinced to thread into a 1/16"-64 hole. Alternately, a #1-64 tap could be used to tap the hole oversized. As the difference in diameters is only on the order of 0.008", that would be doable.

Are you sure it's not #1-64 instead of 1/16-64? At any rate I have a bunch of tiny screws from #1-64 through big sizes like 3-48. PM me and we can figure out what you need and if I can help, I'll send you some. I have flat head and round head slotted, some steel, some brass. (Sometimes I'm glad I'm a pack rat!)

Gary,

I'm going by what the people at Lyman told me. A 1-64 may be the correct size though it may be an 0 or 00. At any rate it is a tiny screw with an odd ball thread pitch that was likely much more common a hundred years ago when the sight was designed. The screw head is slotted and a very short cylinder and flat rather than flat with a conical bottom like most flat head screws. I suspect a round head would substitute if necessary. Steel or brass would probably suffice in this application. If Bill doesn't have an original I would appreciate one of your's.

Some very old tap and die sets have fractional threads that match precisely some later standardized number thread.See Gary, there are other packrats on this site.
Mike

I think I have the screw you need, Jerry, but tell me what vintage the 48 is in case there is more than one possible candidate. Regards,

Jerry,
Some additional info:
My screws have a major diameter of .060" and minor of .050" which I believe would make them a #0 size. The minor is a bit big and the standard for #0's seems to be a 80 pitch. Your Lyman guy is right on the pitch. I put my thread gauge on a magnet so that the screw stayed in place on the gauge and then using a 10x loupe could finally resolve the pitch issue. It is a 64 tpi.


Also discovered that this head type is fillister and they come in a flat or round style. Here is am image of my sight and these screws. As you can see they are mismatched for head type because I didn't notice the difference when Michael made them available. Both types, however, protrude sufficiently to capture the detent spring when under tension from the knob.


This company has miniature screws and although they don't have the proper one they might know of a source:
http://jimorrisco.com/miniature-screws-and-fasteners/miniature-screws.html

Dennis

Bill and Dennis,

I'm not certain what the vintage on my sight is and I'm not certain how to date it. The screw head on the one screw I have looks like the one on the left in Dennis' picture. The people at Lyman told me what they thought the thread pitch to be but I suppose it could be 56 as they seem to have been going from memory.

If one of you gentlemen would be willing to sell me a screw I would be most appreciative. As uncommon as they are they're likely worth multiples of their weight in gold or platinum.

Jerry Liles

Jerry-see my edited post.
D.

Thanks Dennis. At least the screw pitch is certain and it is an 0 size screw. Nothing is ever easy on these old timers. Part of their lasting charm.

Jerry LIles

Jerry, Send me a PM with your mailing address and I'll send you a screw. You can repay me by having available whatever small piece I next need and can't find anywhere else. Regards,

Dennis,
Thanks for the magnet trick.
Mike

Bill, will do. Whatever I have you need that I can afford is yours.

Dennis thanks for the magnet trick. I wasn't sure how I was going to try to measure the thread on that minute screw and remain sane.

Jerry Liles

Bill PM sent

Darn. I forgot but Bill sold me the Springfield action that Steve Durren used to make my new, beautiful rifle. It is a 30-06 (of course) with a California english walnut stock from a blank sold by the Richter's (Quaking Aspen) with a 24" barrel, Jaeger sidemount and Lyman 48 receiver sight. The 48s staff stores in the butt stock under the trapdoor butt plate. The stock is modeled after a Griffen and Howe sporter from the '30s with a point checkering pattern. The rifle is beautiful. The pictures Steve posted a few months ago are good but really don't do it justice. And slick. It will feed a whole magazine of empty cases without a hiccup. A double heat treated Springfield'03 makes as fine a sporter as any action there is. By the way, if anyone is interested, I believe Steve has another high number action on hand. Oh and you should see the Krag carbine hog rifle he made. I hope he'll post some pictures of the finished rifle.

Jerry Liles

This has been an education all onto it's own. The magnet trick and sizing information is appreciated. While I know this wasn't the cause, it made me think about the number of AR detents I launched across the shop when I built my first couple of them, also the spring I lost from a brand new Staggs 20/30-30 over-under back in the 70's. So I went searching and found a source for magnetic work mats. Don't know if they are the cheapest but they have several strengths and sizes. $43 will get a 19"x24" that should help keep stray bits from disappearing (spring launched not included). COWRC.com is the site. I suspect it might be worth it not to have to go through sourcing a hard to find part. Glad to see you get a replacement.
Thaine

Posted for Physdoc who is having computer problems.

Dies for 1/16-64 screws are still available

http://www.victornet.com/subdepartments/Special-Pitch-Dies-up-to-1/2-inch/1350.html

It would be great if someone would post pictures of Lyman 48's of different variations and go through
and list what size screws are used.

Son of a gun. With that die and my little Unimat miniature lathe and some way to slot the screw head I could make my own screw. That is if I can see well enough. Maybe I could set the lathe up on my dissecting microscope. Yeah. That would do it.

An education unto itself is an understatement. Here is another cheaper option, magnetic sign material. Been many a time I could have used it.

http://www.magnetking.com/#regularmagnet

Art

Get one of these and the dies and you are set.

http://www.esslinger.com/optivisor-profe...an-choose-size/

Art

Art,

Thanks for the link, definitely a better deal and easier to find something that will work on my benches.

Thaine

Great find Physdoc. Need to remember with Victor Machinery to scroll to the page bottom when looking for taps and dies as I missed it when I looked. That's where I got the other Lyman screw dies.

The sudden surge in sales for this odd little die should have them scratching their heads.
Dennis

I wonder if we should get a commission for the extra sales?

If you locate a magnetic mat or sign material close to your lathe/mill/drill press, you will likley find out just how well they work.
Mike

I need to wallpaper the shop with magnetic sheets to catch the projectile springs and small ball bearings.

Jerry Liles

While I cannot add much about the screw in question, I can say with authority that the long slide 48 on a vintage 03 sporter will reach 1153 yd with a fairly standard load using a 220 gr cast bullet. It was quite fun, and not very difficult to hit the Whittington white buffalo, once we spotted a ranging shot. It did take about 20+ rounds to accomplish that, however, as I had no ballistic data to attempt it with before hand.

Jerry,
A trick I have used on potential flying springs is to tie a thread or string to them. Can't do it on every application but when its possible I do. Even if the thread doesn't stop the flight totally they don't go far with the drag.
Now ball bearings...magnetic sheet is as good an idea as I know of. Thanks for the suggestion.

Another post for Fred:


It is a good idea not to just get a die for that thread size, but also a few taps. Victor doesn't have them, but they are on
ebay. When I make screws, I often find myself tapping a section of aluminum rod to act as holders for the screws I've made.
There are lots of ways to slot a screw, but perhaps the cheapest and fastest way to do it, is to use the cutoff wheel of
a Dremel tool. You may have to build a jig to keep the angle right. And for what it is worth, I can't work on stuff without
a set of optivisors.

The Dremel for slotting works but the screws are so bloody small even the narrowest Dremel wheel is almost too large. If I have to make a screw this small having the taps like you suggest is the only practical way to do it. For tapping aluminum I have been known to cut threads on a steel rod, and use it to make a crude tap. Works for aluminum. Sure wouldn't want to try it tap steel.

Brent now you're shooting an '03? You're starting to get all 20th Century on us. I soon expect to see you shooting a Black rifle.

Jerry Liles

An adjustable jewelers saw frame using a short section of blade is good for cutting very narrow screw slots. I also have a 6" hacksaw that cuts a very narrow kerf, but the jewelers saw is even narrower. I never looked, but imagine that very small and narrow slotting saws are available that could be used in a Unimat.

Received the proper screw from Mr. Ferguson today. It is now on the sight bar with a drop of blue loctite and the sight staff is back on the rifle and all is well with this part of the world. A tiny part to be sure but it is right. Fortunately I did the reassembly in my magnetic dish which caught a dropped, nearly microscopic screw and kept me from having to beg for another. Pheww.

Bill thank you so very much for supplying the screw. It is people like you and so many others on this site that give me hope for humanity.

Jerry Liles

I am doing a bit of sight work too, and ordered a slitting
saw arbor, I will post a picture of the slitting saw's use
in cutting a slot for a screw when it gets here.

My computer problems are temporarily over, thanks Art
for posting things for me.

And I guess for completeness, Brownell's sells screw
slotting files, here is a link.

slotting files

Thanks for the information. I have s slitting saw for my mini lathe but it is about as thick as the screw head on the screw in question.

Jerry

Actually, what is needed is a slotting saw, not a slitting saw. You can slot with a slitting saw, but can't slit with a slotting saw.

Jeweler's slotting saws commonly start at 0.008" and go up from there.

Victor tools again is your friend, offering jeweler's slotting saws in several diameters.

http://www.victornet.com/subdepartments/Jewelers-Saws-1-1/2-to-1-3/4-Diam./1591.html

Thanks for the clarification, I was never really clear
on the distinction between slitting and slotting, this
website has a nice description of the different saws

slitting and slotting

Soooo? You can slot a slit but you cannot or at least should not slit a slot? It all sounds vaguely unclean somehow or at least unnatural.

I'm so confused

You can slit the side or slot the top with the same tool. Not at all unnatural.
Chuck