After having seen all the beautiful prewar rifles you all have posted, I started thinking. What type of knives would they have carried to go along with them? I would like to find a classic knife to use but don't know where to start. -JB

I think there are a few knive cranks on this forum who will know a lot about this. My impression, for what it is worth - not so much - is that there were many custom knife makers in the 19th C both here and in England but by WWI the factories like Marbles had pretty much pushed them out. There were a few still around in the interwar period but the big boom in custom knifemaking did not start until WWII with the likes of Randall, which because of demand became practically a production operation. In the last half century we have had a tremendous proliferation of custom makers, paralleling custom guns, and the development of a lot of fancy work - again like the guns. The few custom knives in the interwar period were plain and practical, made for use not for BS.

There is a two part article on knives starting in this months Muzzleblasts.
Tom

An interesting topic, I can post a picture of the knife that Niedner carried but It will be a while. I'm just now recovering from a bug I picked up from my Vegas trip.

I've got a custom knife my uncle gave me in the 70's. It's a practical knife with a birds-eye maple handle and carved maple case. My uncle called it Puka. The person who made it was a Finn that lived in Missoula, where my Aunt and Uncle also lived. I imagine it was made for my uncle shortly after WW2.

My dad has one made by the same guy. Both are signed. I'll drag mine out in a day or so and post a picture.

Was August's rifle the carrier?

Seriously I do hope you are feeling better. The only bug I caught was the urge to buy a rifle. I managed to keep it at bay though.

Mark inspired me with his will great power.

Would like to see Cameron's pics. There is a long Finnish/Swedish tradition of puka, pukka, puukka knifes, see

http://www.squidoo.com/scandinavianknives

Not too many of them are handmade these days though.

My good friend made both the horn and the knife.

You have a very talented friend!
For early knives, check out William Scagel he was the early Master.

Craig

Here is one source for reproductions of Scagel's knives.

http://www.vintageknives.com/tek9.asp?pg=products&grp=59

http://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp/schedule.asp?t=374931&

modern knife auction in UK, at the end of it what looks like the whole run of knife digests, knife annuals, etc.

Be still mine heart, more or less.

Years ago, I bought an odd-looking engraved knife & sheath at a garage sale, because it felt good to hand.. Yup, a Finnish 8" bladed pukko, with a substantial spine, fuller'd, and long tapered edge. That blade honed up razor sharp and stayed that way.

Over the years I learned to spot the assorted Scando-knife styles, and have a modest using collection. One of them is a leuko, as shown in the above website. They are utility camp knives, and watch where you snap-swing that edge.

Some of the bunch are small little works of art, with nicely tooled leather sheaths. Others are the latest Marttinnii stainless designs, with very practical synthetic handles and loss-resistant sheaths.

At the last Tulsa show there were more to be found in one place, than I've personally viewed in all my total years of hunting them. That's good, and that's bad; because now they have become a 'collectible commodity'. Alas, in the general marketplace they have become SOMETHING SOUGHT FOR THE MONEY, instead of just for their intrinsic qualities. In one way,tho, less of the really neat-0 pre-war and early post-war examples [that require some attention to usage and maintenance] won't get used by up the uninformed.

At any rate, the newer imported, synthetically mounted, pukko styles from Scandoland are great for really hard utility use. Trucks, boats, spare in the trunk: you can't hurt them easily, they have good outdoors resistant steel, razor edges, and long history of informed practical design.

Here's one of the sites: http://www.ragweedforge.com/

Thanks for the links and discussion; in the midst of a URI and head cold, so happy to see things that make me smile.

A PS: Of course there are tons of 'fine art' knives of rare precious components, executed by artisans that are the equal of any who ever lived. I appreciate that genre, in the wide world of knives. But I LIKE the practical folk quality of the traditional older pukko and Swede and Norwgie models. As well, I often visit the Contemporary Long Rifle Association site [CLA], to see what the modern masters of American primitive are up to.

The longer bladed knife on the left, in photo of the URL you posted is, with the exception of the handle, almost exactly like my fathers.

A few photos of the one I have. I can't quite make out the maker's last name, but it looks like Kivaitjo for the first, with the last name being worn down some from sharpening and use on field dressing big game.

I wish I would have gotten some information from my uncle. I may be able to get some history from my father.

Michael, I would love to see the pic of Niedner's knife when you are up and about again. That is a lovely powder horn.

I have a puukko like the one pictured below that I plan to use with my 94 in 6.5x55 when it is finished. They are wonderful little knives, mine has a birch bark handle, and is very comfortable to use.


I did some quick research on Scagel, an original is very expensive, and most are pretty crude looking, not at all what I was expecting. I found J. Behring of Treeman Knives makes Scagel reproductions from old Studeabaker springs. They seem very nice, and I think that will probably be the route I take. I would still love to see/hear of any other styles that you think would be appropriate.
Best, JB

I didn't notice the signature of the photographer of the photo, that was in the background, when I took the picture. Anyway, here's the last picture of the knife with the background photo.

My photo skills need some work!

A good site for contemporary Scandinavian knives (Swedish, Finn, and Norwegian) is http://www.ragweedforge.com. The guy that runs it, however wierd his other hobbies, is a straight shooter.

Mr. Niedner carried this knife out West when he was a young man and gave it to a friend shortly before his passing. I don't often use it, it scares me a little, the main spring on the big blade is so strong I believe that it would cut off your finger if you closed it on one. It's made by Maher & Grosh Toledo, O. Back when I hunted I went through a pile of knifes but kept coming back to my big two bladed Case, easy to sharpen and does not take up a lot of room. On my third and last Randall a 5-5, ordered a new one a few years ago and could not believe what they charged for it, still in the drawer never used it.

Not a knife but something I made for my late friend Bill Wise.

Reading the knife postings made me think of the old ones stored in a drawer. The two folders were my dads: A folding Case on the left, and a folding Schrade on the right. It is interesting how similar the folders are to the knife photo Michael posted. I think both of these knives were purchased prior to WWII. As I was learning hunting in the Southern Swamps in the 50’s, I saw very few fixed blade knives, most of the old guys carried a big folder.

The fixed blade is one I purchased in Parry Sound, Ontario, in 1962. You gents that know knives will recognize the original that this German Made knife was copied from.



In the below photo are results of my knife making attempts in 1983. Four are ground from L6 Saw Steel (large band mill blades) and one is hand forged, over a coal fired forge and by using a 200 pound anvil from Sweden, made in 1929. Handles are brown Micarta. Back then I was over ambitious, made a lot of give away knives, and have around 20 more left, ground but without handles. Reserved for future gifts. Next ones will have tiger stripe maple for handles.

If you have good eyes you may see my namesake river in the upper portion of the chart.

great pix Altamaha! I have carried a Case single blade folding hunter like the left hand one in your pic for years. All the knife one needs for 99% of hunting situations. Did a spike bull elk with it once; had to pound the blade thru joints with a rock, but no permanent damage (except to my Dasher station wagon, which had elk hair and blood in its back end for some years--wife not thrilled. But she et the elk readily enough....).

Mike, the one in the photo was carried by my dad for many a year in the Georgia Swamps on his hunts for Whitetails and wild hogs. Our better hunting areas were a few miles up the Altamaha River shown on the chart.

I have had it on a few Olympic Elk hunts and it performed well for the skinning and dressing.

The stains on the big blade of the Schrade are blood from my Dad's last deer, shot in his 84th and last year, in 1993. No way would I clean the knife up!

Another name to look for is Harry Morseth Knives, he used the swedish laminated steel for his knives, great working knives that have superior edge holding. Many makers out there that will copy Scagel patterns. There is a doctor (retired) in Fruitport Mi. that bought all of Scagels tools and makes copies of the Scagel patterns. I will have to look up the name, can't remember it right now.
Craig

Dr.James R. Lucie Fruitport, MI

One of my knife books has a chapter on Morseth.

And the story in another of my books is Bo Randall bought a Scagel from a guy using it for a paint scraper on a boat and decided to make one similar. Thus the Randal story was begun!

There are a lot of very talented people out there making custon knives. If you get into Loveless or Bill Moran knives you are talking upwards of $10,000 each, another very expensive hobby!

Craig

Not mine. Maybe five bucks if I throw in a few McDonalds coupons.

Thank you for all the wonderful pictures. If I had an extra 10k to spend it would not be on a knife... Why were the folding knives so popular? Easy to carry? I will have to take a look at the Morseth knives as well. I thought there would be a wider selection of well known makers. I'm sure there were some fine custom knives back then, but it appears that in the end the knife was just a tool. Best-JB

The handmade folding knives were and are popular due to the precission and detail required to produce. A lot like a Rolex watch and a Timex, big difference in the quaity and detail, but both tools that do the same thing!

Craig

The old timers used folders as they did not like anything dangeling from their belt, especially down in the SE US where the "jungle growth" has a habit of snatching a fixed blade knife out of the sheath. Most of these gents, my father included, put a lot of time on foot in the thick stuff when traveling the swampy regions. Another reason is if you take a fall, the knife often cuts through the sheath and jabs one in the leg, especially if the sheath is secured in the frontal area of ones belt. Another reason is lightweight cotton coveralls were often worn in the hot swampy areas, coveralls are much cooler than pants with a tight belt. Coveralls have no belt for a sheath knife. Another reason is travel to reach the hunting often was by small boat ("jon boat or bateou") and a sheath knife just gets in the way when sitting on a small boat plank seat.

Many of my hunting friends back then said a big sheath knife looked somewhat foolish dangeling from a belt. Even today, if I am carrying a sheath knife while hunting, it is securely stowed in my pack, out of sight and not prone to dropping out of the sheath or being "snatched" by the heavy brush in the rain forest elk country I frequent.

I guess it all boils down to area habits.

Not just the southeast. I have several handmade knives from Ark. craftsman, they always use a dangle sheath, the belt loop is attached to a large oring that is than attached to the sheath, so the knife and sheath can move in any direction whether the wearer is sitting , standing or falling! The knife is always secured into the sheath with a retaining strap.

Craig

I like that ring idea.

This puukko was made by Ville Pikkusaari from Lapua, Finland.
And by the way, it should be just opposite way in sheath.

Igorrock,

Thanks for letting me know which way the knife sits in the sheath. I always wondered which way it was supposed to go.

I googled up Ville Pikkusaari, and saw a knife that was virtually identical to the one I have.

Unless he's been making knives for more than 50 years, then the ones he makes is a copy of the one I have. My uncle gave me the knife in 1970-1971. He and my aunt moved to my hometown in ID from Missoula, MT in 1961 and he had the knife at that time. The reason he probably gave it to me, is, even as a 7 year old in 1961, I would admire the knife sitting in his gun display cabinet, whenever I was at their home. I surmise that it was made in the 40's or 50's, the latest would have to have been 1960.

Thanks for the information, interesting knives to be seen when googling up the name you provided.

I recently got this one from a friends estate, turns out the maker lives 15 minutes from me. I got to speak with him one afternoon, he was instrumental in developing a process to create the Damascus blanks with different types of metals. Still has the equipment which he'll be passing on to his grandson eventually. Right now all he makes are high end folders.


This knife just fits so well in my hand I had to have it. Perfect balance and plenty big enough for most hunting work.

Nice filework on the spine, and dovetailed scales as well! Very nice work. How is the edge holding? Most damascus does not hold as well as the highperformance steels.

Craig

It's a recent acquisition, hasn't been bloodied yet but should hold the edge just fine. As he explained it to me it's not traditional iron/steel Damascus but rather two types of steel.

his info...

Wilton, CT
1989-present
Works with A J Hubbard (d).
Company seems to be "Precision Engineered Damascus" Google Page

Interesting article!Thanks for sharing it, and your new knife.
Now if we can just get some barrels!

Craig

Rob,

That's beautiful! What are the measurements on that little beauty?

Those who are interested in checking out a talented budding bladesmith may want to look over on NOTSSMBBS.com to see some of American Jim Wurtz's work produced at his home in Argentina. Good stuff and getting even better rapidly!

Bob,

It's 6" OAL with a 2-5/8" blade. Most of the weight is in the hand so the blade feels like my index finger.

I tried to find Wurtz's knife on NSSMBBS but there is no search function.

Rob

Here is one of the threads that show some of Jim's work.
http://www.notssmbbs.com/viewtopic.php?t=10595

And another....

http://www.notssmbbs.com/viewtopic.php?t=10480