sxs smoothbore rifle/shotgun

Posted by: Anonymous

sxs smoothbore rifle/shotgun - 01/22/05 05:57 PM

A Bockbüchsflinte according to the kind fellow at Heym. My percussion is (L).58 smoothbore x (R).58 rifled.
Were these used mostly for big game with a conical in the rifle and a ball in the smooth, or was the latter usually used as a shotgun?
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: sxs smoothbore rifle/shotgun - 01/22/05 06:00 PM

Sorry should have titled it simply sxs rifle/shotgun
Posted by: pwm

Re: sxs smoothbore rifle/shotgun - 01/23/05 04:36 AM

it was used mostly as a bockbüchsflinte with a shotload and a bullet because the hunter never know what game comes in his way. the roundball comes in the shotgun barrel when it goes only on big game like in in a "Treiben" where only gig game was allow to shot.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: sxs smoothbore rifle/shotgun - 01/23/05 11:20 AM

Thanks pwm. I plan on using an expanding-base Minie (whatever weight shoots best) in the rifle during our blackpowder deer season while keeping a load of lead or bismuth shot in the left barrel for the odd grouse, gray partridge or pheasant that may appear.
Posted by: pwm

Re: sxs smoothbore rifle/shotgun - 01/24/05 12:14 PM

good to hear that it dont end as a wall hanger
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: sxs smoothbore rifle/shotgun - 01/26/05 09:51 AM

Its so nice and light weight and very well made that I must try it. Its by a maker in Dresden named Janeck. I don't want to pound it hard, so will "proof" the rifle barrel with about 80 gr ffG and a 420 gr Minie and then find a load with less powder and hopefully good enough accuracy at 50m to bag a deer. I will try and find Minies of different weights to try. The rifle barrel has "Pr" or "Pv" over "47" and I wonder if that dates the barrel? Likely not, as I read that vented nipples, that this gun has, were obsolete by 1830.
Posted by: cheapskate

Re: sxs smoothbore rifle/shotgun - 01/26/05 09:55 AM

A Bockbuchsflinte is an over/under combination gun. A side-by-side is just a Buchsflinte.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: sxs smoothbore rifle/shotgun - 01/27/05 10:36 AM

Thanks cheapskate. I asked a fellow at Heym about this, but got no reply.
Posted by: pwm

Re: sxs smoothbore rifle/shotgun - 01/27/05 12:28 PM

Oh, I dont know that this was in question. yes an over/under is a Bockbuechsflinte, it means the over barrel is "aufgebockt". "Buechse" is your rifle, rifle comes from the german word "geriffelt" and means the grooves. "Flinte" is the shotgun and comes from the 18.century flintlock muskets.
german language lesson 1

drilling-2 shotgun barrels 1 rifle barrel
doppelbuechsdrilling- 2 rifle barrels 1 shotgun barrel
flintendrilling 3 shotgun barrels
doppelflinte 2 shotgun barrels
doppelbuechse 2 rifle barrels
buechsflinte- sxs rifle and shotgun barrels
bergstutzen-most time over/under big and small rifle barrel
bockdoppelflinte o/u shotgun barrels
bockdoppelbuechse o/u rifle barrels
bockbuechsflinte o/u rifle and shotgun barrel
vierling- 4 barrels of any combination you like
waldlaeufer- drilling with a rifle barrel over the shotgun sxs barrels
Posted by: Carl Regier

Re: sxs smoothbore rifle/shotgun - 01/27/05 03:14 PM

Hal, what is the rate of twist? I'm thinking that a rifle of that vintage might have been meant for round ball use, so if the twist is slower than about 1:48 I'd try a patched RB first. A .58 RB will blow right through a whitetail at 50m, as you know - and a 1:72 twist won't stabilize a conical too well.

Let us know how you do!

I love the smell of sulfur in the morning - it smells like . . . well, like rotten eggs actually. :-)
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: sxs smoothbore rifle/shotgun - 01/28/05 01:02 PM

Thank you pwm for the nomenclature. Now I know I have a buechsflinte. How do you say "percussion" in German?

Carl I measure about one turn in 27" so I think the rifle will do well with Minies. I don't think I will load a roundball in the smoothbore, but if I do would a .56 be about right if a greased linen patch is used?
Posted by: pwm

Re: sxs smoothbore rifle/shotgun - 01/28/05 02:37 PM

Perkussionszündung-percussion priming
Posted by: Carl Regier

Re: sxs smoothbore rifle/shotgun - 01/28/05 10:56 PM

Hal, you're correct that 1:27 is too fast for a RB. Minie it is!

.56 RB should work for the smoothbore. Just select the right thickness of patch to give a snug fit without requiring a posthole digger to seat the round.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: sxs smoothbore rifle/shotgun - 01/29/05 12:53 PM

OK a perkussionszündung buechsflinte it is!

Off the muzzleloading bbs I read that MCM lube from North East Trading works great on Minie bullets and I will try that. What is the recommended lube for patches for the roundball?
How do Minies perform if loaded unpatched in a smoothbore? And will 28 ga shotcups slide down a .58 barrel?
Posted by: cable

Re: sxs smoothbore rifle/shotgun - 01/30/05 12:49 AM

wow! thanks for the German lesson....i have a flintendrilling [a triple barrel 12 gauge] and didn't know what to call it...jokingly it was called a 'trilling'; wish i had a vierling, should have gotten one years ago when they were more reasonably priced!
Posted by: pwm

Re: sxs smoothbore rifle/shotgun - 01/30/05 09:39 AM

dont think a Vierling is common here, I have never had such a gun in my hands.
Posted by: cable

Re: sxs smoothbore rifle/shotgun - 01/30/05 09:01 PM

rare everywhere, and very pricey, like this one:

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976453162.htm
Posted by: Tom Hall

Re: sxs smoothbore rifle/shotgun - 01/31/05 06:17 PM

Hal,
How much does the piece weigh?
I just like the way the germans manage to put multiple barrels on things and keep the pounds down.

Tom
Posted by: cable

Re: sxs smoothbore rifle/shotgun - 01/31/05 11:26 PM

usually quite similar to a good side by side 7.5 to 8.5 pounds; each barrel can be thinned considerably past the chamber, as they reinforce one another giving more than enough rigidity, so aren't usually excessively heavy. some lightweight 'dural' drillings barely weigh over 6 pounds.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: sxs smoothbore rifle/shotgun - 02/04/05 12:18 PM

Will try and remember to weigh when I get it back together. Would you guess these early percussion guns used wood or metal ramrods?
Posted by: Carl Regier

Re: sxs smoothbore rifle/shotgun - 02/04/05 05:16 PM

I would guess wood ramrods, with hickory a favorite. It would be a whole lot better material for the purpose than any metal generally available in the 19th Century.