I am looking for a source for 10.75x52 data to reload for a belgian double rifle?

old colonel,
Do you have the details of the case and bullet worked out yet? If so I suggest using 5744 and asking the powder manufacturer for a starting load, which will likely be somewhere around 26 gr.If you don't mind that "nasty old black powder"( vic are you there?), you can use a case full( if the rifle is nitro proofed, I wouldn't use black).Trail Boss has some applications also,but velocity may be low.I'm "old school",and since I still have Unique,Red Dot,and 4198; I still use them, but am switching to 5744 as I aquire different guns.
Mike

I am looking at buying the rifle and do not yet own it

I realize it is an odd duck cartridge to play with. It comes with dies and supposedly data to reload, but I was looking to determine what else is out there. So far I have seen no data, but that there arre actually at least two different 10.75x52 cartridges (10.75x52 Springer and 10.75x52 Grundig) which are significantly different.

old colonel,
They are different, both can be reloaded without too much trouble. One of them is pretty easy, even jacketed bullets can usually be made from 44 bullets.Since it comes with dies, I would expect there are some cases laying around also.I believe both of these are smokeless cartridges.If the rifle is in good shape,I would jump on it.Don't worry about loading data, maybe people will ask you for data later.
Mike

I will go for it. I meet the owner friday to see if we can agree on a price.

Yes sir, I'm here. My only source, Barnes, doesn't list the cartridge.

The odd ducks are the most fun. As Mike said, if it's nitro proofed something can be figured out and made to work. If not, black is just about as easy if not more so....I am convinced of the superiority of holy black and cast bullets....hehehe.

vic,
Try www.Mappa del sitio Municion . It is written in Spanish, but numbers are numbers, and so are proper names.These two cartridges are not as odd as you would think.
Mike

If this is your first double rifle, I'd look for something more common for your first one, unless it's a screaming deal!

I will see the gun Friday and inspect it in order to determine how good a deal it actually is.

AkMike,
For a handloader, they are all common, as long as you have dies and can buy or make cases and bullets.It's more fun when you can't buy ammo at the Mall Mart.
Mike

Saw it today, Brought it today, it will be shipped to my FFL for a Wednesday delivery. When I get it in hand I will be cast the chamber, mike the barrels chamber, mike the cartridges included in the case

It appears to be the 10.75x52 Springer shaped cases. The gun comes with dies and some reloading data, it stated the cases were 45/70 necked to 44 cal mag bullets 300grn 1950 FPS. Unfortunately I did not take notes and will have to wait until the gun arrives.

I find it puzzling that a previous owner used .44 bullets as I thought 10.75 is a .423

I know just what you mean. My 500/450 WR Carbine 1 9/16" was until I figured out how to make cases w/o forming dies. I still don't have reloading dies. but with some effort it works.
Figuring the correct load to match the regulation is the fun part.

For some reason, 44 cal is actually .429"
10.75 is about .425"
You have to be careful, but it could be a good start. Slug the bores first.
I own a 10.75x45R Heym double, but I have not had a chance to slug the bores yet. I plan on using cut down .410 brass in that gun.
There is a host a variations on those calibers from 10.75x45 from 45mm long case to 52mm and up to 65mm.

I suspect the 45 version will be throwing a 300 grs bullet at ~1300fps. The 52 will be somewhat faster.

Best regards,
WC-

Thanks for the data on the 44 cal, that relieves me some.

I have found diagrams on the internet showing the original bullet dimensions for 10.75 x 52 Springer were .423 and the initial bullet weight (at least one option) was 258 grains

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....rt=all&vc=1

As you have pointed out slugging the barrel is a good course of action as well as casting the chamber to determine case dimensions.

The previous owner of this gun worked from 45/70 brass

I am leery of going too fast. All is conjectuure until I actually have the gun in hand and can cast the chamber and slug the barrel..

Colonel...I wish I was in your shoes!!! That one is going to be a heck of a lot of fun! Pictures are a must as are progress reports!

As I go forward it I will have a steep learning curve.

I have been a shotgun guy my whole life and have collected and read everything on shotgun ballistcs I could find. I feel complete comfort in messing around with reloading for shotguns and 16ga in particular.

I am an artilleryman so I understand gunnery and ballistics, but I have never done much fixed ammo reloading so this is new ground.

The last time I reloaded fixed ammo was over 15 years ago when a friend of mine who had all the presses, chronograph and knowledge did up 120 .300 savage rounds for my grandfather's rifle. I still have over 100 of those left as it is little shot.

I intend to go slowly into this. I need to confirm a baseline for dimensions and bullets. I need to determine the initial data for a baseline load and then play with it in terms of developing a load that shoots best from the gun.

I will likely next invest in a chronograph and a pressure sensor set-up. I have been craving the pressure sensor to help with shotgun reloading for a long time and it makes even more sense for this project. I will also need to figure out what ballistics software I need to buy in order to help with developing a load.

Once I have a good basic load then my next step is to play with the idea of developing Sabots and sabot loads for the gun, but that is a couple of years down the line. I am convinced Sabots might have a good application.

This project will allow me to dig into a whole new lane I have not been before

I will post some picture of the gun and the ammo that is coming with it at the end of the week.

Loading a DR is pretty easy and straight forward IF brass and dies are available.
The trick is finding a load that will match the original loads they set the regulation with!
If this one can be built with 45-70 brass and 44 mag bullets you good to go.

BUT a chamber and throat cast is a must. As well as slugging the barrels.

old colonel,
You should be able to use 44 cal bullets(even jacketed) by resizing from .429" to .423"-.425"(whichever the barrel wants), in fact you may be able to use then unsized, if one will enter a fired(but not sized)case easily.I use .433" 43 Spanish bullets,sized to .425" in my .404 Jeffery(also a 10.75) with complete satisfaction. If I remember correctly,your case should be about .493" head diameter, which is smaller than 45-70(.500-.505),but a chamber must be larger than the cartridge. Sometimes,a chamber may be enough larger that larger cases can be used. If a chamber cast shows 45-70 cases can't be used "as is", sizing the head to a useable diameter is not especially difficult.When you make the chamber cast,post the dimensions.
Mike

That sounds like a lovely rifle and also a fun adventure.

You might have already done this, but I'd recommend getting a copy of Wright's "Shooting the British Double Rifle" if you do not have a copy. It is very helpful for getting an old double rifle to regulate. I've just got an Alexander Henry 500BPE and his book has been very helpful in getting it to regulate.

Beyond that Sherman Bell, Ross Seyfried and Frank Findlow's articles in the DGJ are great further reading.

Please post pictures when you can!

I'll add that without Wrights book I never would have gotten my 43 Mauser double to regulate.

old colonel,
Have you made a chamber cast yet? How about a update?
Mike

Pic of the gun would be a treat...

per request pictures of the chamber cast and of the gun

http://www.picturetrail.com/gid24335437

oldcolonel,
That is a really nice rifle, you are a lucky man.
Mike