I have the Kodiak about as close to regulation as can be done with loads. Final two targets looked like this with not enough difference to talk about. The shot in the 6 ring at 2:00 o'clock and the one just outside the 5 at 6:30 o'clock can be disregarded as I was trying to "Kentucky windage" the rounds into a better composite group....obviously I didn't do it.



I thought it was on this board that someone either posted or told me that the difference in elevation between the two barrels can be corrected. The impression I got was that there is a device that slips in both bores and is ever so slightly twisted until the barrels come together. In the case of this rifle, the right barrel down and the left barrel up until they come together. Did I dream that or is there such a device?

I've never heard of anything like that but stranger things have been made.

You did not dream it however the barrel's solder must be liquid (by heating it) in order to do the twisting of one barrel up and the other down. Watch the "Inside Holland & Holland video where Steve mounts the barrels on a somewhat precision block plate and makes certain that each barrel at the muzzle is down against the forward block while the solder cools back to a solid.

You can make such a tool to insert into the barrels at the muzzle--twisting fork, or make a twisting fork to fit over the outside of the barrels. Which ever you prefer. You need the fork because the barrels are hot, however you can twist them by hand while hot by using a thick insulated leather glove. The fork like tool is shaped somewhat like a blacksmith's scroll bending fork, with the part that is inserted into the barrel 90 degrees to the fork handle.

You must measure where the barrel are in relation to a horizontal plane before you attempt to twist them; and then measure where they are to the plane afterwards. In your case you will only need to twist them a very few thousands of an inch.

A good barrel regulator like Steve at H&H can align the barrels horizontal by eye, hold them down while they cool and "Bob's your Uncle" he has them spot on.

I am certain there are gunmakers in America that can show you this adjustment--which is easy to accomplish.

Thank you bushveld!! I understand the concept completely....and that it is also completely beyond my abilities! I was unaware the solder had to be in liquid state but it makes perfect sense. I wonder who in the US is capable and if the cheapy double is even worth the cost.

But the breech loading Kodiaks are brazed and not soldered so redoing the regulation is very difficult. Is this a front stuffer or breech loader?

Is there a chance that you are canting the rifle to cause the elevation change shown? Perhaps change the hold to make it better?

It's the muzzleloader Mike and no, I'm not canting the rifle. Darn good question and suggestion though. Many years of shooting a spirit level front sight has made that check almost involuntary. I was shooting from my bench with my hand on the front rest holding the rifle, no butt bag used.

Perhaps I should be happy with what I have given what it took to get it to this point.

I don't know if it will help but I found that shooting a double off the bench throws rounds all over, I was shooting a kodiak 45-70 double. I have changed to either a rest that keeps me sitting upright with my back straight or using a standing rest and the gun resting on my hand rather than on the bag. I have had the best luck with a tripod set of sturdy sticks works best for me.
That works for me others may not have the same results.

I am getting ready to regulate my 12 bore so we will see if I know what I am talking about pretty soon .

I had pretty consistent grouping, as the above target shows, and the rifle was never "rested" in the common meaning of the word. I always had it in my hands. The same method has worked well with my other doubles. I'm pretty convinced it's an inexpensive double rifle that isn't regulated as the better rifles are. What can one realistically expect from a $500.00 double? I am going to try it again from some kind of contrived "standing rest" however. Truth be known, for offhand shooting, my old eyes and hunting purposes it's probably acceptable....but it sure doesn't shoot a composite group like my German or British doubles.

Is there anyone in the U.S. who does regulation on double rifles in case I'm interested.....and if that person would want to fool with this grade of rifle?

It would cost you more than the rifle. There's s a guy in the states but I can't remember his name. Go here and ask. They'll point you in the right direction. http://forums.nitroexpress.com/postlist.php?Cat=0&Board=doubles

There are several folks stateside that could re-regulate a DR, BUT it would far outweigh the cost of the rifle. Soldered rifles are about $800 IIRC but brazed would be much more to re-do.

IMO, Either live with what you've got and enjoy it for what it is or upgrade to a different DR.
Sabattis and breech loading Kodiaks are next cost ways and Chapuis are up the list a bit.

Mike, I'm still waiting for my confirmation of membership on that board. It's been a couple weeks and I've not heard anything from them. Sure looks like a fine place for doubles. I'm not surprised at what you or AkMike say reference the cost. No, I don't believe I'll be spending $800.00 on a $500.00 rifle.

AkMike, I reckon I'll live with it. It MIGHT be able to be tweaked a bit more but I'm not very confident. I have an E. M. Reilley in 500 BPE and an E. Goldmann in 43 Mauser for cartridge doubles. Either should take care of anything I'm liable to encounter in Missouri...lol. I much prefer the vintage, hammer doubles to newer stuff....that's just how my head is screwed on.

Thanks so much to all of you for the good, solid information. Hopefully some day I'll be able to return the favor but given you guys knowledge I'm not very confident of that either.

Sharps I'm a born and raised Missourian. Farm country is a great place to grow up in. Unfortunately my kids grew up moving every 6 months to 3 years. That also has it pluses and minuses but they turned out well.

Realizing it's not safe to assume, I will still assume you are retired military? If so, thank you for your service to our country. I understand the moving part but fortunately I didn't have to do much of it when I was in....'course I didn't get to see much but north Texas and the Arizona desert. Where'd ya grow up, Mike?

There must be something in Missouri for me other than my family. I have fled this state three times and vowed never to return to live. Where do I find myself nearing the end of my working life, less than 40 miles from where I grew up. Don't get me wrong, I like Missouri and there are cerainly worse places to be. As with all places it has its charms, here in the Ozarks being one of them. But my plan was to die an old man in the northern Rockies. All I know about that now is I'll leave this little piece of Ozark rocks when they carry me off it.

Near a small town in the NW called Rushville. Lived in the Missiouri river bottoms and have been in more floods than I want to remember. I spent 23 years in. Everyone's more than welcome.

I've got several underlever and hammered DR guns as well as the newer box and side lock DRs. I like them all!

I spent a little time in KCMO and we went on camping trips and canoeing the rivers down in the Ozarks back in the mid 60's. It was nice then but no idea how much it's changed by now.
I've been here since 66 and it's home now.

I'm certain I would like the box locks and side locks....back when I was buying and trading DR's the older rifles were all I could afford. However, I've always preferred older firearms so I doubt I would have moved forward in time much. More than likely the quality of older firearms I have would have increased. I only own one scoped, bolt action rifle.

DR's have incresed quite a bit in the last 15-20 years, our income took a big hit when my wife became disabled shortly after I acquired a couple doubles so unfortunately my days of adding to my meager collection are finished....unless some big windfall comes in. I don't see any such thing on the horizon.

AkMike, there's a lot more city folks utilizing the Ozark creeks in the summer than there was back then. Other than that things haven't changed a great deal. Plain truth is that there isn't a lot of opportunity in the Ozarks in general. Specific places have boomed, Branson being the first that comes to mind, but generally throughout the area there hasn't been a lot of growth. It was poor country when I was a kid back in the 50's and 60's and pretty much remains so today.

We sure had fun canoeing the rivers and shooting bullfrogs with a Benjamin pellet gun as well as the camping beside the creeks/rivers.

I seem to recall one named Big Greasy. Ever hear of it?

Big Greasy? No, I can't say I have heard of it. Big Piney yes and it isn't far from me but not Big Greasy.

PM me your details about the application to NE forums and I'll get an answer from the admin.