Whooopeeeee, my H & H Royal Ejector just came in! I'll take some pics when I get through drooling on it, and wipe the drool off!

binko

What the hell's the matter with you...........posting "just came in" and not having the pics to show? Geez binko........your killing me!

I'm sorry,I'm sorry, I just don't think I could take good pics right now...shaking too much.

binko

Hope you can hit something with it...(with all the shaking)

I can imagine[well kind of not :)] what emotions must be flooding around the old brain right now...
so is it a new one for christsakes...or a lovely vintager...if i were opening the box i think i'd take the second choice
hope it all you hoped for...nice one whatever the year.
when you have some degree of control, slap her up with details
cheers
franc
should change your name to BINGO!!

I'd like to hear the reaction of Mrs. Binko. What does she think of the new investment?

OK, here you go, this is the bes I could do, considering the circumstances...


[img]http://www.jpgbox.com/page/587[/img]

[img]http://www.jpgbox.com/page/588[/img]

[img]http://www.jpgbox.com/page/589[/img]

[img]http://www.jpgbox.com/page/590[/img]

[img]http://www.jpgbox.com/page/591[/img]

[img]http://www.jpgbox.com/page/592[/img]


binko

I should be ashamed of myself RWTF

BTW - I gotta leave for a while, I just told Mrs. Binko I paid more for this gun than she paid for her car. Gotta go get an ice pak for my bo bo's!

binko

Nice looking old gun...looks like someones been monkeying with the hinge pin screw.





Just how old a car does Mrs.Binko drive ?

Binko,
Nice gun. What are the particulars on it? Did you get the ledger page, and if so how do they decribe the barrels?

This is all I have on it for info.

12 ga, 30”, Cyl/Cyl, marked on the barrel flats, Holland and Holland, "Royal Side Lock Ejector", with the very durable Rigby, [Leg of Mutton], shaped locks vintage 1892. The Holland action was colored by Doug Turnbull, Barrel browned by Buck Hamlin. Wood work and Leather pad by David Yale. This is a 1892 London best gun used at the "Balmoral Estate", in Scotland, during Queen Victoria’s reign, and it sports a "Royal Warrant Crest" on the echelon. It happens to be the second gun of a pair, so it has the # 2 in gold, on the barrels and the receiver.

I didn't get a ledger sheet on it, because that probably stayed with the #1 gun, as did the case. I did get a "Henry Atkin" makers case that says "from Purdey's", it is oak and leather, and of the late 1800's. When I knew I had the gun coming, I ordered a leather, Holland & Holland logo plaque for the case.

Now you know all I know about it, if anyone has any thing to add, please do so.

thanks
binko

btw - jOe, I did notice that and I may address it later...thanks for reminding me!

Was this gun "made for" or "made by" Holland and Holland...from the photos I'm guessing "made for".

That damaged hinge pin screw would've threw a brick wall up in front of me...

You might need to check with Doug Turnbull...I'm betting Turnbull didn't color the action.
(Not long ago there was a post on here talking about how people were using his name but not using his services).

The stocks "short of the balls".....can it still qualify as a "London Best" on the Holland and Holland name alone ?

What Gun dealer took you on this ride ?

Hey Joe, do you ever have anything nice to say? I've never seen anything from you but " the sky is falling" doom and gloom.

Mike the only person the truth ever hurt was a crook....I might be wrong but doesn't the hinge pin have to be removed to re-color an action ?

You think Doug Turnbull puts out stuff like buggered hinge pin screws ?

You're not the dealer are you ?

"Just how old a car does Mrs.Binko drive?"
"What gun dealer took you on this ride?"

jOe......your such a punk! Comments like these.......your only intent is too hurt someone feeling! So what if the hinge pin is buggered. I don't remember binko ever saying the gun is all origianl from the maker. I guess it isn't worthy enough for you! Put some of your crap on here and lets have everyone critique it!

Joe I've never seen the gun before. I don't think it hurts to mention the good points if you have to mention the bad. Personally I think it's a nice gun. It might need a little work if a few areas but I don't see any reason to rain on the parade. I can't afford guns in this class that don't have something wrong with them. I bought the Henry double with a broken hammer. The hammer is now fixed and I got it cheaper than I would have if it hadn't been broken.

Binko,

Beautiful gun! I'd suggest calling Holland in London, they'll fax you the build sheet on the gun. If you ask nicely they will do it for free.

I'd also get a copy of Dallas's book, Holland and Holland The Royal Gunmaker. It's an informative read with lot's of information.

I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

Congratulations on your new H&H Royal! I like the early guns with the leg o mutton locks. Nice damascus pattern too! Don't mind j0e, he has no manners. It looks like a great shooter, I would love to carry that gun for roosters over my Spaniels.
Steve

You should be excited, what a nice gun and a little piece of history. If you ever feel a little down in the dumps, go to your safe pull it out, spend ten minutes with her and you will again be elated. I can assure you that you will feel better than Homeless Joe and his beat up hardware special !!! It must be the week for H&H Royals' - I got one this week as well, would post pics., but don't all the negative comments.

Much nicer than anything I ever hope to swing again.Don't believe anyone will even let me hold one that nice.

j0e has some excellent examples of best quality British guns in very fine shape, but he still does not have any manners.

bayflooring just click on the ignore button for anyone that you don't want to read comments from. Makes them disappear. Most here would love to see another H&H. That's what the board is for.

Will post some pics. next week leaving this AM - taking the wife and all to the beach - I will return early - rather be Dove hunting. Joe really doesn't bother me - however - raining on parades is not the most attractive trait one might display on this board.

Binko,
I would second JBG; get the Holland ledger page and Dallas's book on Hollands. Many times the ledger page makes no reference to whether the barrels are damascus or not. When Holland does reference the barrel material, damascus is described as "best barrels"
JoE,
There is no question that this is a Holland Royal. It is also no secret that Holland bought in their guns prior to 1900, many of these made by Scott. The fit finish and regulation of these guns were impeccable and Holland built their reputation on them. All of them if they have been used have a few warts on them. I tend to see the glass as half full.

You have a lovely vintage best quality gun that we all would be proud to have, not withstanding any jealously inspired remarks about it's appearance. I wish that we could "play back" what this lovely gun remembers in its more than one hundred years in the English country-side. The heritage of a gun like this add's greatly in its value, both real and intrinsic. I am returning to England soon and might have time to drop in to Holland's and ask about the gun's heritage if you like.

OK, guys, here's the rest of the story.

Ms Binko's car is a 98 Crown Vic Bought in 00.

Binky & Shirley pic, http://www.jpgbox.com/page/595

Now, I don't think this guy that sold the gun to me is a dealer, because he didn't give me a business name, and said he was having to sell his guns in an effort to raise some much needed cash, and the check was made to him personally. He didn't say when the restoration was done, but he has used it for his personal upland gun choice for a few years, and it also has some handling marks on the stock, which I will try the steam and wet towel fix on. If anyone wants to know his name, email me and I'll send it, but I wouldn't want to put his name out without his permission.

I don't know if it was or wasn't made by Holland & Holland, but their name is on it, and that's good enough for me. I would buy another one today, at the same price, if you got one, it's sold, email me. The bores are excellent, some very minor pitting just ahead of the 2 1/2" chambers only, and it weighs, on my scale, 6 lbs 11 oz, which will make it, my second lightest 12ga.

The pics I put up, really don't show the coloring of the receiver very well, so I am putting up another one if you would like to see it, it's here.

http://www.jpgbox.com/page/594

I will contact H & H to see if I can get a sheet on it, and let me know where is the best place to get the book...he was supposed to send one to me, with the gun, but he got sick, and it didn't arrive.

Thanks to all who took the time to respond...yea, even, I think I'll coin a phrase here, "LoJo", like "J Lo" only different.

If I forgot something, let me know, I'm tired typing, and Shirley is calling, I think she want's to see if her inflicted injury to me, is going to leave a scar!

binko

I can assure you none of my comments were "jealously inspired"....or meant to "rain on the parade".

I've had more than my share of "reality checks" on old guns I've bought.

My comments about the re-color job have nothing to do with how the color "looks"....I only made them because the hinge pin screw is buggered. Doug Turnbull keeps records call him.

Let us know if Turnbull tells you he re-colored the gun...it's going to surprise me if he says he did...if he didn't then the dealer/guy pulled your leg by swinging Turnbulls name around.

LoJo, he wasn't a dealer.

binko

I thought I saw that gun on a dealer's site, maybe Kirby Hoyt's Vintagedoubles.com.

Perhaps he had it on consignment, though.

OWD

OWD,

Maybe so, I didn't see that, but that is because I have never visited Kirby Hoyt's site. The listing came in to my email as a new listing on Guns America, and I immediately sent an email and told him it was sold. and I left my name and phone number. He called and said he had 4 other offers to buy, but I was the only one that gave a phone number, so that is how I got the deal on it.

binko

By any chance, was the seller's last name Maxon?

OWD

binko,

Nice firearm, you should be proud. I am inquisitive . . what do the barrel walls measure.

Regards

Hey Binko.....Looks lovely...but Did you get it checked over by a good Gunsmith for any problems, you know like barrel wall thickness, original chamber length,in-proof, tight n on face etc, before you accepted it??
I wish you Good shooting with her
cheers
Franc

Better watch it Franc or some of these bO-zos will be calling you names....

Binko, congratulations on getting yourself a nice shotgun. Your wife must be very understanding. I don't think mine would let me spend more money than I could get selling my '94 Toyota pickup. You were also a very good sport the way you replied to what Joe said. Irrespective of how brash you might think he is I hope you respect his opinion. He says what he believes regardless of how well it will be received, and considering it will only increase the odds that you got all that you paid for and expected to get (Somehow I get the feeling this is going to cost me another star ). I'm sure you will get years of enjoyment out of owning your new gun and it will serve you well.

Skip

The anonymity of the internet behooves us to think before we speak that which we would dare not utter, were we actually in physical proximity. I am sure those with the reckless and crude internet personas are very circumspect when they are around others.I wonder if they belittle the attributes of a new wife or child among their associates?

Joe your comments to Binko are akin to telling a parent their child is ugly. It may be true, but no one wants to hear it. If he's happy with it that's all that matters.

Orry,

I'll have to wait till I get to my gunsmith's shop...I don't have a barrel mic here, and Gustav is coming, so it'll be awhile before I can get there.

binko

Franc,

I considered myself a pretty good gunsmith at one time, I used to build custom 45's, 1911 type, until I lost my shop in a divorce, [won't do that again], and I did check chamber length, and tightness, with it being as on face as I have ever seen, all else was correct except for barrel wall thickness, and I answered that in a previous post.

thanks for the concern,
binko

Skip,

Haven't had one of those since 95', but girlfriend is very understanding, and trustful in my decisions, and that's why she is still my lady after 11 years.

My forte' is dealing with difficult people, and I have found that once you really get to know one, they will become one of your better friends. I get that from my dealing with my mother, who jOe reminds me of...no slack, sharp tongued.

thanks for the thoughts,
binko

Hey, binko, you own a very nice gun. Here's to you.

I think you have a nice gun...and made no comment about it that I wouldn't make in person....remember it's just a gun not a child....guns come and go.

You know I did kinda make a club member mad when I looked at the English hammer gun he just bought from Kirby Hoyt...guess I shouldn't have compared the lock springs to leaf springs on an old worn out truck and then told him that just because it was English made didn't make it a fine gun. Then I recommended that he send it back quicker than it had arrived.
He kept it and every time I watch him shoot it I see him struggling to cock the hammers I just shake my head.

I still think you should call Turnbull and ask him if he worked on the gun. I hate to see people use other peoples names to help a sale.

It is a nice gun and will make you feel nice when you hunt with it.

lojo, we all say rude and thoughtless things sometimes but writing them is much worse as you had time to consider your comments. What would your parents say? Did the word apology ever enter your mind?

LOJO, I will call him and H & H next week, IF, Gustav don't kill me first!

binko

K Mc,

I sure hope you are right...thanks

binko

I'd have to say the lad came on a little too...with his drool-drool. Prolly put ol'j0e off. A London gun owner must be low keyed - like mutted tweed.

Lowell........your a moron! You just had to stick your fat nose in, couldn't leave it alone could ya? Sure lets spin this against binko for being excited about his new purchase. Why don't you and jOe with your noses thumbed up in the air, take your London best's and mutted tweed back across the pond. I hardly doubt anyone here would care the least!

Tut-tut battle!
We all must be watchful of our entree.

Why...I'm not the guy that buggered the hinge pin screw or claimed it was re-colored by Turnbull.....

Lowell one thing I've learned on this board....there are some men on here that act like potty mouthed school girls.

Let us try and get back to reality with this post please.
Binko is obviously very proud of his purchase, and so he should be.He has never mentioned the price, and does not need to, it is none of our business.What he has bought is a very fine gun made by a famous maker.Wether it be Holland or Scott it matters not.
Yes the hinge pin looks damaged, yes the barrels may be thin and pitted, yes it may not have been coloured by Turnbull.But it really matters not one hoot to us, it is none of our business.If Binko is happy, that is fine by me.If he had asked for advice or opinions to help him decide if he had purchased a bargain, now that would be another matter.
Homeless and Lowell are very fine men with allegedly some very nice English guns.If they would care to try and be as refined as their guns, ( I doubt it bothers them?)they could heed the English childs advice, "Speak when you are spoken to"
"Converse intelligently with everyone and treat all as your equal, speak down to no one"

I rarely critique another man's guns.
I'm more of a social commentator, than a nuts 'n bolts - Xs and Os guy.
...but we usually let the first to reply say, "I've drooled all-over my keyboard," and what a wonderful gun it is.
Just going by past history.

lojo, buggering a screw is a mistake that many have made. Your typed words are a concentrated effort at meaness. By no stretch of the imagination can you assume that it is proper for you to say such things.

There are usually two responses to a situation, the correct response and the appropriate response. Lets review a situation that all of us have been in"

Honey, does this dress make me look fat?

Appropriate response: No dear, it makes you look hot.

Correct answer: No dear, it is your big butt that makes you look like that.

Worst answer: You are looking more and more like your sister.

I hope this helps.

I've been married over 30 years...and never pulled any punches with her either. I'm willing to give it a try just for you....

Binko that sure iz one jam-up H&H...it makes yOu look so hot.

I wouldn't let the hinge pin screw being buggered worry you one little bit. (Probably done by an amateur like me with a screw driver giving her a gun'yO-logical exam....nothing to worry about I promise).

On the barrels being pitted...nothing to fret over....most barrel walls measure 25 to 50 thousands...ever hear the old saying "bottomless pit"....don't let it worry you none they were just kidding...all pits have a bottom.
Next time you pull out a dial caliper look at 25 thousands then try and guess how deep those pits are.

They probably got there because the last guy "drooled" down the barrels.

Don't let it worry you none...but I would keep the "drooling" down to a minimum.

Ps...Binko the gun doesn't make you look fat.

That "screw job" is just some cautious gent trying to make sure nothing came loose while the gun was being fired. I do this each time before hoping on my mountain bike. Took a bad spill once, so now I make sure all the bolts und screws are thighter then hell before taking a ride.

Thank You!!! Amen!

binko

I'm a very severe critic when it comes to examining guns or anything else for that matter. I certainly understand the technical reason's for Joe's comments but maybe not his thinking. I only offer a critque before purchase if asked for. If I'm not asked, then there is really no need for any critique unless a safety issue is involved.
Binko, Good luck with Gustav. I have been in 4 hurricane's in my lifetime and never again. Seems we don't get any here in Wisconsin!-Dick

Congratulations Binko! I hope you have a great time shooting it, and I hope you keep safe with Gustav coming your way.

Nice vintage not long in the tooth gun. At least you will not have to burry it under ground in PVC pipe after Obama wins.
I like the fact that being young nobleman's gun it's equally suitable for driven game at an estate and roughshootin' on American farm. Congratulations on fine find Binko.

That gun has plenty of what some Englishmen refer to as 'Ghostie value'.

quite a beautiful gun. I would love to have one even close to that nice.

Congratulations and enjoy it!
Brent

I have seen jOe make comments like this on several different freshly purchased guns posted here - including one of mine. I finally understood that he was trying to get the purchaser to check some things out before their inspection and return period was up.

While I am defending his motives I certainly won't defend his tact! If he enrolls in the Dale Carngegie course he will be put in the remedial class.

Best,

Mike

You guys are so kind, I hope I can do it justice on the quail hunts I've got planned this fall...

October 1st for farm-raised quail @ Deep South Quail Hunts in Tylertown, MS...
$100.00/ 1/2 day,
15 quail limit, Mon - Wed.,
The best deal I have found.
http://www.deepsouthquailhunts.com/
Tell Zack, great guy, Binko sent you.

thanks again,
binko

Sounds like fun. Good luck with the Holland, the hunt, the storm and please post the content of your ledger page when you have an opportunity.

Congradulations,Great gun. Save the gun leave the Crown vic. Good luck on the storm

Shirley wouldn't go for that idea at all, and until this gun starts serving me breakfast in bed every Sunday morning, I'll have to put it in the Crown Vic, and try to save both of them!

Thanks for the good, but not workable, [she's very particular about that car], advice though,

binko

I'm betting your the one serving her breakfast in bed.

LoJo,

I hope you are not betting too much, for at least ONCE in your life...YOU LOOSE!

binko

Binko,

Judging from the gentlemanly way you have responded despite some of the typical rough posts we now seem to see more often, you obviously have the class to go with the gun you just purchased. Congratulations.

Is not jealousy, the sincerest form of flattery?

thanks
binko

.............Mutted Tweed? Speaking of a mutted tweed, how's your day going, Lowell?.......LOL..............Denny Crane

By the way, nice gun, binko. You should be proud of it!!

I know I'm late getting into this thread but let me state I also really like your new gun. Let us know how she handles.
Jim

I really like it too...



but I still don't believe BinkOs getting breakfast in bed.

LoJo,

I'm sorry it took so long to reply, but we had company, Gus, that required all of our attention.

I will just have to take pics of the breakfast, and post them, although I am sure you'll say the eggs aren't cooked right or the toast looks burnt, but I am going to Show-n-Tell!

binko

Look Binko...if you are one of the guys that's been whining about to the boss about me I'd apreciate it if you would stop posting to me...

if not help yourself.

jOe,

I never wined about you or anyone else on any forum, and don't intend to start now...in fact, I don't even know how, or who, I would wine to, so you are safe with me...speak your mind. Stuff like that really doesn't bother me, I'm just having fun here. If that bugs you, I apologize...but I probably won't stop, cause you, or nobody else, can ruin my day, unless Shirley don't bring me breakfast in bed Sunday morning! Now that would ruin my day...I'm spoiled!

binko

Guys,
I called H&H in New York today. I spoke with Bob there, and here's the skinny. If I want the print out of the ledger page, it will be $50.00, but he told me everything on it, over the phone, and this is what I got.

"Made in 1890, Sold to "Sir Traed", w/ 30" barrels, best steel, no choke L or R, 1 1/2" DAC, 2" DAH, 15" LOP to center of butt, and has a 5/16" cast off. It is #2 gun of a pair, and #1 gun was fitted with a new set of barrels in 1952, but #2 gun has never been back to the factory".

Bob said there was nothing else on the ledger sheet.

Talked to Todd at Doug Turnbull's, their records for the last 14 months are on a new computer, which he wasn't on at the time, but checking the old records, the serial number didn't come up. There again, I don't know when the work was supposed to be done, so I'll have to call back, because someone was using it at the time.

FWIW
binko

I don't recall reading if the No2 gun has been reproofed.
Don't always need a factory repair for one, maybe just the newer smokeless loads would do the trick for the ol'sod!

binko, I'm glad that you like your new gun. It doesn't matter if Doug Turnbull did the reciever or I did it, as long as YOU like it that is all that matters.

Dig it.

Tim

Lowell,

It has no indication on the barrel flats, and Bob said it hadn't been back there. Now, other guns I have, that have been reproofed, are so noted on the flats, so I would assume that this one hasn't been, although the previous owner has been shooting modern powder loads in it with no visible problem, and I plan to continue the practice.

thanks
binko

Tim,

You know, you are right, and it really doesn't matter what anyone thinks except me, and I am not sending it back even if DT didn't do the coloring of the receiver, so I guess that means I think it is worth what I paid. It's not perfect, but if it was, I wouldn't be able to afford it, and I have already been offered more than I paid, so I guess it was, at the least, a good investment, and I will enjoy owning it...for awhile.

Thanks for YOUR opinion, as it is obviously mine also,

binko

Thanks for posting your ledger notes. I find it interesting that Holland considered Damascus as their "best" steel or barrels for that time period. I know several collectors who have one of the "dipped" edge Hollands and they are very happy with them.

binko, nitro or blackpowder original proofs?
Btw ol'bean, your gun looks wonderful.

Binko, I would love to have that lovely gun in my safe! Congrats on a very nice gun!

PM,

You are welcome, but You mentioned "Dipped Edge" Holland's. Excuse my ignorance, but I don't recall ever seeing that term. Could you please expound on the meaning of "Dipped Edge"?

thanks
binko

Thanks Lowell,

I sure would like to find the mate to it...the #1 and the case, although, I do have the Purdey case that I got with it, modified to fit the H&H now. It has black powder marks only.

If anyone is interested in seeing it in the case, I can put up some pics.

thanks
binko

Thanks Stever,

I am glad it's in mine, I might go and pattern it tomorrow with some #8, Polywads Vintage Loads?

binko

Some call it leg o' mutton locks - as to its shape.
The older style!

Binko,
Mr. Glenthorne is correct "dipped" is in reference to the lock plates. A must have for any Holland collector.

Duhhhhhhhhhh, Most CCCERTAINLY!

Thanks PM, I think I got it now...heard LOM, and "Rigby", and NOW "Dipped Edge"! WOW! So much to know, so little time.


binko