SCOTUS DECISION

Can you believe it? Good thing it went now and not in a year or two.

I am delighted to hear that. -Jani

Chicago's laws will fall next. The system here is BS. No handguns are allowed and if you forget to re-register your long guns on time they become "unregisterable".

In a few years some Democrat President will agree to a UN ban and they'll all be gone anyway. So, it doesn't mean a whole lot.

Maybe we should all curb our enthusiasm a little till we see how this works out, but Jimmy, that's kind of a wet blanket to throw over what is the most important firearm rights decision of our lifetimes...Geo

and when that happens there will be another revolution.

We shall see

We also owe a BIG thank you to Ronald Reagan who appointed Antonin Scalia to the Supreme Court. Without Scalias effort and guidance this could have gone the other way.
Jim

I don't think that people will ever (literally) fight to keep their guns. They will just cower down and turn them over. How many will be willing to shoot the first person wearing a badge who knocks on their door to take their guns away? How many will rush across the street to shoot an officer in the back to help their neighbor? When they (government)know we have millions who will do this, only then will they back down. Not until.

you certainly have a low opinion of your fellow Americans

What makes you think a UN ban on anything means anything? Saddam Hussein had the UN figured out when he ignored a dozen-plus Security Council Resolutions while pocketing billion$ from the UN's corrupt Oil For Food program.

If it works the way most UN resolutions do, a UN gun ban would mean more guns in the world!

"In February, a majority of U.S. congressmen -- 55 senators and 250 representatives -- filed a brief urging the Supreme Court to strike down Washington's ordinance."

For the whole article,
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/06/26/scotus.guns/index.html

Frankly, after yrs of seeing seemingly earthmoving edicts neutered to 'no-effect' by lawyers and legislators, I'm very skeptical that we'll see a functional effect in places like NYC, Chicago, and WDC. The opposition always seems to put enough roadblocks in the path to negate the effect of such seemingly black and white rulings.

Still, I'm hopeful. We'll see.

My favorite quote of the city attorneys...

"...violence caused by handguns is well-documented ..."

You know, like obesity caused by cheeseburgers, highway fatalities caused by SUV's, lung cancer caused by cigarettes, AIDS caused by KY jelly, to name a few other things that pose a threat to people.

Jimmy W

How many cops are going to be the first to walk up to the doors of law abiding Americans and TAKE the guns???????

Any Chicago cop would.

This is a huge win for us.

Dave K,
It's easier than you think, but registration will come first.

Think of Boston, NYC, and Chicago, where they knock on doors and take registered guns now. Every gun is registered by SN in these places, and I know of 2 messy divorces that ended up with guns taken away as part of the wife's battle plan.

Once guns are registered, the confiscation is just another police process.

Here is the link to the actual Supreme Court document. Warning this PDF is 157 pages long...
http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf

The Illinois State Rifle Association filed suit to over turn the Chicago gun laws:
http://cbs2chicago.com/local/supreme.court.handguns.2.757471.html

Daly says he will defend current Chicago gun laws:
http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/1026348,daleygun062608.article

Pete

Kudos to you George-I have now seen how the "numbers went with the Supremes" and am not surprised, but disappointed.I am going to pour myself a nice Yukon Jack on the rocks tonight, sit on the deck and watch the Big Dipper, and toast the fact that we may well have "turned the corner" since the 1968 and all the following anti-gun legislation- our leaders (?) never learned to "balance" what our founding fathers meant by "not infringing the people's right to own and bear arms" which means that we had to fight for our independence against King George or did Feinstein, Brady Bunch, Bloombery and Ruth-Bader Ginsberg and Souter think we threw pins and needles at the British troops at Bunker Hill and they all turned tail and fled back to England-we are going in the right direction- but I still have my NRA sticker that says "Charlton Heston is MY President" and I'll sip that drink tonight in his honor!

The Supremes amaized me. They can read simple english as well as I can. And Jimmie, only when they pry them from my cold dead fingers! Chops

From this article http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/1026348,daleygun062608.article
"At a time when Chicago's homicide rate is rising by nearly 13 percent ..."

"Chicago's ban on new handguns-and a companion requirement that all existing guns be re-registered every year was pushed through the City Council in 1982 in the wake of the assassination attempts on former President Ronald Reagan and Pope John Paul II and the death of two police officers.

The number of registered guns has steadily plummeted ever since."

Daley apparently speaks with forked tongue.

The decision was a 5/4 split right along liberal/comservative lines as, unfortunately, I expected:

Voted to overturn the Washington ban*
Scalia(He also wrote the majority opinion).
Kennedy
Roberts
Alieto
Thomas

Voted to retain the Washington ban*
Stevens
Breyer
Ginsberg
Souter
*If the minority had prevailed here it would have meant that the 2nd Ammendment is NOT an individual right. This IMO would have allowed for registration of all firearms and yes; that would have included our beloved shotguns. Once firearms are registered it's a simple step to declare them illegal and confiscate them. We've seen this happen in both Great Britian and Australia.
This was a big step in the right direction. I now hope we can present a united front when the new and far more severe "Assault Weapons" ban comes up in Congress after the 2008 elections.
Jim

It's nice to know that we have 5 Justices on our Supreme Court who are actually willing to stand up and fight for our Constitution. The 4 "liberals" voting in opposition are an embarassement.

Just wait until Obama gets a chance to change the balance of the court ... he'll probably have little Richie Daley write the next opinion ... in crayola of course.

Better thank GW!

Quote:
"Chicago Police Supt. Jody Weis today said that 75 percent of Chicago’s murders involve firearms. So far this year, Chicago Police have responded to 15,000 “man with a gun” calls and 27,000 calls of “shots fired.”
This is from the Chicago Sun Times report on Daleys speech today.

Whoa just wait a minute here. The police responded to 15,000 man with a gun calls and 27,000 shots fired so far this year? And this in in Chicago which has for all practical purposes a total gun ban? What's wrong with this picture? Perhaps the bad guys that are doing this are ignoring the law? So apparentely this gun ban has no reasonable effect whatsoever other than to disarm the law abiding public?
I lived in the Chicago suburbs for many years and I can tell you in detail why this is the case here but not on a public forum.
BTW: I live in a Phoenix ,AZ suburb where virtually anyone without a criminal record can own a gun and have never heard a shot fired in my area in the 13 years I've been here.
Jim

The NRA has been fighting this fight for decades. We all should thank them for their efforts and their tireless work to keep the Second Amendment in the Constitution. If you hear the loud pop, pop, pop tonight it is the NRA having a well deserved bottle of champagne.

Now just think what would have come if they had lost. Complete reregistration and eventual loss of all firearms in our future. In the end hand guns would have gone first, then semi auto rifles and shotguns. Then as we became more civilized all the rest of the gun would have been gone. Guns, hunting and an entire heritage would have been lost and have been saved for now, today.

THANK YOU NRA. THANK YOU SCOTUS.

Yes, our thanks should go out to the NRA. And keep in mind that local laws can always override anything. Long after I'm gone, people might have to stand up and fight for their rights. And they will have to ask themselves if giving up their wives and children and their lives are worth their guns. And in the past, people have given in. I can't see it being any different in the future.

I'll say it again, Jimmie. When they pry them from my cold dead hands. It doesn't sound like we need guys like you on our side. I'm embarrased for you. Chops

If guns were the problem, any gun show would have been more dangerous than Baghdad before the surge. I too will have an adult beverage tonight, and toast the 5 justices who have some common sense. But we can never rest on our laurels because of the other 4 and the ones who may follow.

There will be no dudes with a badge. They will pay Eric Prince's merks and members of other merk armies already on US soil to do it. You know the boys who now shoot iraqi civilians for sport.

Can't tell the good guys from the bad without a scorecard, and there is no scorecard - so they're all fair game ol'bean.
...but the day your hear that the Belgium Army is here for urban wargames, will be the day.

The 'Belgian Army' has been here for decent amount of time. In swamps of NC there is an outfit named "Blackwater" with 20k+ men recruited from military men all over the world. They even have 'CIA' like intel component located on some carribean island. This is just one of many outfits on US soil. These private armies for hire uphold the law of whoever pays the most.
PS. When these hombres show up at the door it's time to hand them guns over, or......BIGGGG

Just telling it like it is, chopperlump. What did people do when the Clinton- Brady bunch imposed all of their regulations? Nothing anyone could do. And wasn't it LaPierre that called Bush's ATF a bunch of thugs, then went and apologized? I don't know why he apologized. That's all they are half the time. So like I said, one day people are going to have to ask themselves if they are prepared to go to prison or die for what they believe in. It's like Jessie Ventura said a few nights ago on Jay Leno- if the politicians did to us out in the private sector what they are doing right now, they'd be in prison. And the one thing that was the greatest fear of John Adams was a two party system running this country.

I hate to say it but Jimmy hit the nail on the head concerning the supposed alternatives available in the two-party system regarding gun control. John Sigler (who lives in Dover, DE by the way) warns in a recent column not to be taken in by the AHSA's disinformation about Obama's parsing of the 2nd Amendment. His alledged sympathy for hunters and target shooters doesn't extend to weapons for self-defense given his voting record in the Illinois legislature.

jack

I'm glad you guys have it figured out. I haven't. As a result of the ruling, there will be challenges where laws are similar or the same as Washington's hitherto ban i.e. California and New York states, San Francisco and Chicago. But most state and city gun laws will survive the court ruling. The Court ruled that the Constitution allowed regulating the use of firearms but not banning them, right?

As for the "victory" being good for 60-70 years, it will be interesting to see how future Supreme Courts handle individual rights being constrained by community rights in issues of public safety, with liberal judges being appointed by a looming Democratic hegemony and justices Stevens and Ginsburg now 88 and 75 respectively. I raise a beer but wouldn't let my guard down.

Amen to that Chopper Lump- from my cold dead fingers- The BATF goons-the MI native former SEALs team leader- Eric Prince-founded Blackwater Security-has "bodyguard contracts" for the US in "The Sandbox" but be extra cautious when you deal with mercenaries-their loyalties may not always been towards the USA-I see a long road ahead, many legal battles, and the "anti's" aren't going to fold their tents and disappear--how can any adult think that the criminal element will comply with existing gun laws-misguided "do-gooders" have sure wrecked havoc with our lives and "Fubared" the USA big-time!!

The socialist liberals can't afford to have Blackwater knocking down doors of law abiding Americans to take our guns.I know a couple guys who work for "outside contactors" and they go where the $$ is.
There may well be another revolution but they will have trouble getting the guns from out cold dead hands.

Never register them,never let anyone tell you they will take them from us without a fight.

Osama-Obama will try if we let him.Don't let him or else......

Keep the money flowing to the NRA. Our enemys are not going away. We have just taken some wind out of their sails. Hopefully they will lose some of their money and support. I saw the head of Brady on Fox news after the news came out and said that reasonable restrictions were OK. My idea and your idea of reasonable restrictions are vastly diffrent than their ideas. Expect another assault gun fight especially if Obomma gets elected. Also their dream of registration and licensing will be the first fight to come. I was very dissapointed that the decision was 5-4 in our favor and not higher in our favor. That tells me that we have 4 COMMUNIST sitting on our Supreme Court. You reallly have to come up with some distorted veiws of history of this subject to not agree that this is an individual right. I will never register any guns that they don't already know that I have.

I hope that all gun owners realized that a 5-4 decision could be overturned if Obama is elected. He'll just need to appoint 1 liberal Justice to the Court.

Didn't mean to be holier than thou, but one day, long after I am gone, people may have to fight for their rights no matter what the Supreme Court says. Howard Metzenbaum is one considered for the VP job under Obama. He was the SOB who pushed for ANY semi-automatic to be outlawed clear back in the 70s (a Democrat)from here in Ohio. The woman Governor (can't think of her name or state) out in the midwest right now who also is being considered- her father was Governor of Ohio back in the 70s (Celeste) is another anti-gunner. I was also one to stand by and watch as they tried to wittle away our rights for the past 40 years. We all were. So people will have to stay on their toes from now on. Don't go lax because of some ruling.

Ruth Bader Ginsburg would be the first of the lot to retire in the future...and who could be more lib than her eh!
I think we're in pretty good standing.

Agree, Jimmy. Any with eyes to see shouldn't mistake the meaning of lack of interest across our lands in the shooting sports. We're a tiny minority. The majority treats us condescendingly. People make the laws. The President himself has been reminded twice in the last year by the Supreme Court of his abuses of the Constitution. I do not believe, however, that defying any Supreme Court ruling will help our sport other than makes us outcasts and renegades.

LG,
besides paying off the debt that Hillery took on Barack Hussien has promissed her a supreme court seat when he wins.A small victory but the majority in the house and senate that want to take away our guns (and follow that witch Nancy P like the SA did for Hitler)are already chomping at the bit to use a "reasonable law" to require registration.
We are indeed screwed if that communist Osama becomes POTUS.

We have a right to own and use firearms per the court but they stated the feds still control what we do with them.Remember no where does it state we can have ammo.The goverment can still say what the gun can look like. Sawed off shotguns and short rifles still banned. The feds still have the ability to do what they did with machine guns with all handguns now and require new handgun not needing to be resgestered be at least five pounds with eight inch barrels and hold no more than one round.
Yep we got a right but we will never get to use it as intended.

For the first time in history the High court rules that the 2nd. amendment means what we all believed it meant, and all we get is doom and gloom, WTF ??? Remember when it was going to be the end of the world when that maggot clinton got elected in 92....Stand up and be counted instead of crying about it.

Been a Life Member of the NRA and TSRA over fourty years.Untill the goverment states we can do what ever where ever with our guns and long as its safe we have a way to go. remember Thombstone,we ain't saying you can't own guns were just saying you can't carry them in town.
When open and concelled carry become OK everywhere by folks allowed to own guns the 2nd will be upheld and not untill then.JMHO

I wasn't taking at shot at you Will; just the incredibly dour twist this thread has taken. If you didn't know otherwise you would swear the court upheld the DC ban..............

It shows how much we as Americans distrust our goverment. The new highway they are trying to push through Texas run by the Mexcio goverment may be the last straw before Texans rise up.

I actually read the opinion and the dissent. The thing that really troubles me is in the dissent. The four Justices conclude that there is no individual right to own a gun and that the Constitution only guarantees that right to State sponsored Militias. That leaves the real big issue somewhat open for another day.
Imagine, a "free" state where a man (or woman) can not own a gun as a right!?

Jake

Interesingly, Obama had previously said that he believed that the Constitution guaranteed the INDIVIDUAL right to keep and bear arms. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmolFRqNDsM (at about 3:52 into the clip)
I wonder if now the dissent will have him saying there is no individual right? Sigh. Jake

Obama has stated repeatedly that he believes that individuals have the right to own guns. He will then turn right around and state that the government has the authority to impose "reasonable" restraints on this right. These are weasel words and from his extremely liberal point of view and his known voting record you and I would not have the right to own firearms from his point of view as that would be "unreasonable".
Jim

"I actually read the opinion and the dissent. The thing that really troubles me is in the dissent. The four Justices conclude that there is no individual right to own a gun and that the Constitution only guarantees that right to State sponsored Militias. That leaves the real big issue somewhat open for another day.
Imagine, a "free" state where a man (or woman) can not own a gun as a right!?"

Jake

Excatly what should scare everyone!!! We may have one a small victory but they,the liberal Dumbocrats,that even have some support here in our ranks (most alarming !)will not let this go they will wait till the most liberal Barack Hussien gets into power and we will have two choices,fight or turn them in.

If there is any doubt in you mind where that lying empty suit Obama stand on the second amendment looks at how he voted NOT what he says as it means nothing !

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Federal/Read.aspx?id=3991

FACT: Barack Obama voted to allow reckless lawsuits designed to bankrupt the firearms industry.1

FACT: Barack Obama wants to re-impose the failed and discredited Clinton Gun Ban.2

FACT: Barack Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.3

FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a complete ban on handgun ownership.2

FACT: Barack Obama supports local gun bans in Chicago, Washington, D.C., and other cities.4

FACT: Barack Obama voted to uphold local gun bans and the criminal prosecution of people who use firearms in self-defense.5

FACT: Barack Obama supports gun owner licensing and gun registration.6

FACT: Barack Obama refused to sign a friend-of-the-court Brief in support of individual Second Amendment rights in the Heller case.

FACT: Barack Obama opposes Right to Carry laws.7

FACT: Barack Obama was a member of the Board of Directors of the Joyce Foundation, the leading source of funds for anti-gun organizations and “research.”8

FACT: Barack Obama supported a proposal to ban gun stores within 5 miles of a school or park, which would eliminate almost every gun store in America.9

FACT: Barack Obama voted not to notify gun owners when the state of Illinois did records searches on them.10

FACT: Barack Obama voted against a measure to lower the Firearms Owners Identification card age minimum from 21 to 18, a measure designed to assist young people in the military.11

FACT: Barack Obama favors a ban on standard capacity magazines.12

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory micro-stamping.13

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory waiting periods.2

FACT: Barack Obama supports repeal of the Tiahrt Amendment, which prohibits information on gun traces collected by the BATFE from being used in reckless lawsuits against firearm dealers and manufacturers.14

FACT: Barack Obama supports one-gun-a-month sales restrictions.9

FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on inexpensive handguns.9

FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on the resale of police issued firearms, even if the money is going to police departments for replacement equipment.9

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory firearm training requirements for all gun owners and a ban on gun ownership for persons under the age of 21.9

The deal has been stuck - now if we can let sleeping dogs lie.
No new challenges to the flower power places - they will be the lambs left to the slaughter.
I've got mine, you get yours world.

The deal has been stuck - now if we can let sleeping dogs lie.
No new challenges to the flower power places - they will be the lambs left to the slaughter.
I've got mine, you get yours world.

Only the most onerous local restrictions will be affected by the decision. It won't deter judges and others who believe the constitution should be defined by their idea of what serves the common good.

But this is nonetheless a huge, landmark victory. Many who respect the framers' intent, and who previously accepted the prevailing media and politcal interpretation of a 2nd amendment state militia "right", will be persuaded by Scalia's opinion for the majority. And though few will read it, many who previously dismissed the idea of an individual right will accept that there's a reasonable basis for the majority decision and reconsider. Especially those who saw poor confused Leslie Stahl's recent 60 minutes interview with Scalia.

As for a future liberal Supreme Court majority overturning this decision, I can't see it happening for many years. Most liberal legislators won't care as long as they still have ample power for restrictions. They love a political landscape that let's them propose gun restrictions and posture as crusaders for a better America. And as Lowell noted, the most liberal justices are in line to retire sooner than the conservative majority.

Justice Anthony Kennedy (the deciding vote) is 72
Justice Stephen Breyer is 70
No spring chickens and the possibilty of a total takeover of the house,senate and presidency by the most liberal socialists in power is a real danger that should not be ignored.

Tom-if I may here- After careful read and re-read of this thread-I will say that had the Supremes been 9-0 (or even 7-2- Ginsberg and Souter- shoot, Alfred E. Newman (mad magazine) would have made a better Justice than either of those idiots) we might all "breathe easier" but we won the first game in the World Series- still potentially 6 more to go- what scares me is Barracks Osama Bahama Mama winning with the "assistance" from De Clinton Camp- all politics is based on "promises and deals" so if First Bitch Hillary delivers and Osama "be de new Potus dere Andy" you can bet your favorite LeFever that he will appoint her for the next seat on the Supremes- and with her "clout" in the Senate and following by De Demmecrats- well "Katie Bar The Door" best case scenario, from where I see things- McCain picks Wayne LaPierre for his running mate, Wayne agrees- John "gets the big one while POTUS" and Wayne is our Commander In Chief- sorry for the gloom and doom, I don't really want McCain to "bite the dust"- I give him his dues for the 5 and a half years he was guest of Uncle Ho in the Hanoi Hilton- but this Osama/Hillary allegiance scares me-and Clintons are "bulletproof"- look at all the "flack" they brushed off while Ol'Slick Willie The Draft Dodger was POTUS-un-believable- end of my rant- but the "From Our Cold Dead Hands" should be our watchword guys.

Landmark victory for sure, but it belongs to Robert Levy who assembled the plaintiffs and funded the suit -- not the NRA who evidently opposed the suit (for good reasons) when it was first filed.
This is not NRA bashing, they are already doing the right thing with that ammo Levy provided...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/17/AR2007031701055.html

From Wikipedia: