Please check out http://www.damascusknowledge.com-a.googlepages.com/home
Scroll down to 'Table of Contents' and click the link for all the documents.
More neat stuff coming soon, including an updated 'Flanigan's Damascus Refinish' tutorial.
Many thanks to all the contributors and encouragers, esp. Pete M.
Enjoy!

Drew.........i appreciate the work you do, thanks for putting it all together! I even see some of my stuff in there!

Very nice!

I'm en'wrap'tured! Very nicely done.

You have collected enough material to keep me busy reading and looking for many hours. Thank you very much for your efforts. The information is a gift to all.

Drew-

Cool site.

I have a bunch of info about damascus bbls from the Musee D'Armes de Liege.

If you send me a snail mail address, I'll copy it and send it your way.

There lots of interesting info in it.

OWD
hfn_03570@yahoo.com

Thanks for the comments and e-mails I've received.
I won't be posting new pics on the PictureTrails or the website unless they are a better examples of a pattern, or are a new pattern I don't now have. The primary focus now will be in identifying the named patterns, and the continuing search for the 'Damascus Rosetta Stones', the salesman's sample boxes with labeled tube segments. We're working on getting better pics of the display in the museum in Ferlach, and a guy here in the US has a sample box with 20 segments I'm dying to photograph.

For instance, these barrels on a Baker Paragon demonstrate a very common 2 and 3 iron crolle pattern found on mid- to upper-quality US and British guns.



It was called Damas Anglais by the Belgians, and Oxford 2 S.J. (in 2 iron) by Remington, but I still don't know what the British called it!
Any volunteers to make the trek to Liege, Ferlach, and the Midlands on a quest for pics of the 'Rosetta Stones'? Pete M and Clair?

It appears someone else is working on the same thing http://damascus-barrels.com/index.html

None of the links on that page work.

Drew,

There was a collector in Idaho that I briefly chatted with at the Beinfeld Show in 2001. He had a sample board/box and makers sample (you know the ones. One end is irons, other end 'finished barrel') on display. I had his business card for a long time but can not find it now. He was not 'in the business', just a collector.

Yes, interesting Mike. Last night all the links were up, including the 'Contact' link where I left a message. Very nice graphics and a few extra historical references that I do not have. Also links to several gun dealers and CornellPubs so possibly a commercial site.
There must be quite a number of the 'demonstration rods' out there. Gavin Gardiner had one in his 12/07 auction along with a bunch of damascus segments which unfortunately were not labeled, but sure looked like they might have come from a sample box
I've contacted the Birmingham Proof House thinking they certainly would have a Damascus sample display. Had to give my credit card infro just to get a response, the receipt of which I am still awaiting. I'd think a quality poster showing the segments and names of each would be a good sell.

Thankyou and well done: it's a fabulous site with some beautiful examples. It explains much.
Is anyone making damascus barrels now, or is it a completely lost art awaiting rediscovery?
RG

You are most welcome. I'm aware of no one currently making damascus barrels. Some of the bladesmiths are reproducing similar patterns however.
Peter Dyson & Son Lt. found some c. 1900 damascus barrels from Belgum not long ago, which he offered for sale
http://www.peterdyson.co.uk/acatalog/ORIGINAL_DAMASCUS_BARRELS.html

Have you ever come across barrels which clearly exhibit words repeated in their patterns? In Ken Davies' book "The better shot" there is a picture which shows just such a marvel. Though it seems mechanically simple enough to forge-weld iron and steel together, twist, beat into ribands and twist and form the tube upon a mandrel, the mind boggles that artisans could actually deliberately control an intended pattern so well!
RG

These barrels on a Parker AAHE spell out 'TERRELL'



It's been reported that Daniel Wesson ordered 200 shotgun barrels from a Belgian maker with 'WESSON' in the pattern. I've never seen one. Lots of other examples exist.

I've added a list of specialists doing damascus restoration
http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dfg2hmx7_192fcpp4khn
If I missed someone, please let me know, and I'd be most happy to add more names when some of you (Leighton, Casey) are ready to quit the day job and start taking clients
Should have a revised 'Flanigan's Damascus Refinish' document up soon.

I understand Mialls' Gunshop, Frankston, Victoria, Australia (Aust. agent for Briley) list browning as something they can do, but I'm not personally familiar with their work.
RG

Lots of new stuff has been added including Tom Flanigan's Damascus Restoration Tutorial
http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dfg2hmx7_194gwgwmqdh
I'm still working on our Damascus Rosetta Stones; ultra close up pictures of labeled Damascus Pattern Samples from Ferlach and Birmingham, so more great stuff to come!

Stumbled upon a digitized English translation of La Chasse Au Fusil from 1789 with a description of Plain, Twisted, Stub Twist, 'Wire Twist', and Canons a’ Ruban barrel production. Enjoy!
http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dfg2hmx7_216ddsz38cb

For the 2 or 3 of you still interested I've added a section on 'Metallurgy and Analysis' with a fairly extensive list of references, including a number of articles by J.D. Verhoeven
http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dfg2hmx7_193fzxsjfw

And I finally scored a copy of Leo Figiel's On Damascus Steel so likely more good stuff to follow

Gloria a Dios, 1/3 of the Damascus Rosetta Stone Trinity has been found. A Salesman's Sample Box from Manufacture Liegeoise D'Armes A Feu with 20 named pattern segments has surfaced, and the owner most graciously will allow me to post pics on the Website.
Now all we need are the samples from Ferlach and something from England. Unfortunately, no response from the Birmingham Proof House, Greener, or the Birmingham Science Museum (which is now called 'Thinktank') as yet. Anyone visiting Ferlach or the Midlands this summer??

I've asked a few modern metalsmiths if they could produce Damascus barrels with words spelled in them and they said 'we could but we're not interested in doing it'.

My opinion is they think they could but really couldn't. I think they have an idea of how it is done but have no real experience and none of the associated learning curve that goes along with it.

Kinda like how I think I could be a Forward for the Lakers since I understand the basic concept of basketball.

Rev: For the Ferlach info, you might contact Johann Fanzoj, the Austrian gunmaker. He used to post here, but I haven't heard from him for a couple of years. He is a very likeable sort and could probably help, as his Family has been making guns for several hundred years.MDC

Thanks MD (My PM function STILL doesn't work )

A couple of new 'chapters' up on the website
Damascus Anomalies or Barrels Behaving Badly
The Story of the Walloons (who may have been the primary 'carriers' of pattern welded barrel technology throughout the world)
http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dfg2hmx7_186fpmvhzsb

And HUGE news Gloria a Dios-looks like we've got access to the damascus sample display behind the glass case in the Ferlach museum, and someone to take pictures!
Unfortunately, I've not heard back from the Birmingham Proof House, Greener, nor the Birmingham Industrial Museum (now called ThinkTank) so the search for the English Damascus Rosetta Stone goes on

Perhaps a niave question, but....

WHY can't new Damascus barrels be manfactured if there is suitable demand? Is it just a cost issue?

JERRY

Clearly by the late 1800s both Liege and Birmingham were producing 'machine made' Damascus, but it was still highly labor intensive. Some of the bladesmiths have experimented with pattern welded tubes, but I am aware of no one who knows how to make them today. I'd sure like to see someone start, but can't imagine it could be commercially viable, much less 'Tort proof.'

Not sure if this is any help to modern mfg, however:

Some bit ago, a German-resident Euro-gun scholar of a technical and journalistic background, and i were discussing this problem: the recreating even simple Damascus.

As he had visited the German gun mfg industry in a professional capacity, and was up to date on their methods, he could answer pretty obscure questions, including the schnapps intake per hour, required to give an engraver that solid stance and steady hand.

We'd both read the then 'new' scholarship books on Damascus, and so were conversant with the process of forging up a patterned 'block', from which slabs could cut for further work. Since that mass of Damascus could be formed, I asked him if a properly shaped and constituted raw patterned Damascus 'slug' could be run thru a hammer-forging barrel machine.

He believed that technically, there was no reason that bbl blanks couldn't be formed. As we developed the topic, we agreed that while it may not form the fine twisted wire patterns, there was certainly the opportunity there to begin exploring the process necessary for successful and sound pattern'd bbl's.

I add this to the Damascus discussion, only because there may be someone[s] in the future who will have the artisinal skill, metallurgical know-how, and artistic vision to attempt the process, even experimentally.

All the Best,

I'm aware that some/many rifle barrels are now hammer-forged from a shorter hollow tube using a mandrel. Are any shotgun barrels curently manufactured using similar technoogy?

JERRY

That is exactly the process the fellow and I discussed back then, with the idea to substitute a hollow Damascus 'slug'. At the time, shotgun bbl hammer-forging was being used by the German gun industry, but not as world-wide as it apparently is now. I have read more recently that shotgun bbls are routinely mfg'd in this manner, to the extent of having complete finished interior dimensions, just as rifle bbls have been done for some time.

My informant said at the time, that there were some Swedish blacksmiths who could make bigger 'batches' consistently. Since then, there has been a veritable retail Damascus explosion, to the point that mass production of that steel in one quality or another appears to be routine. As well, neither of us had but the sketchiest idea of the metallurgical properties necessary for the industrial 'steel-squishing' process

However, I would leave any further info about modern Damascus mfg and commercial practices to the knife makers aboard, or others who are professionally conversant with the field. I just don't know anymore than stated here.

As the good Dr Freud is reputed to have said, "It's chust a theory." ;~`)

Greg,

You are probably aware that in higher-end custom Damascus knives, the steel-pounders have been doing alphabetical patterns for a while. However, to make steel ribbons and forge them into a twisty bbl? Sounds like a steep and long learning curve to me.

In some drawings of the traditional method of mfg, it seems to me that more than one person was involved at the forge. The handling and feeding the raw material thru the entire manual process, to the complete forge-welded rough tube coming off the anvil or mandrel or otherwise doesn't sound like it could be learned as easy as a ten-minute lesson in driving driving assembly line fasteners.

Given the prices given for lettered-Damascus custom knives, I wonder how much money it would take to tempt an adventurous [and profit motivated fellow] to go the forge with bbl's in mind?

Apparently not enough, so far.

Perhaps the idea of hydraulic hammer forging a billet of twisty stuff into a bbl may eventually prove to be feasible, or not. However, it seems to me that it might be worth the trouble for an interested party to give it a whirl. Maybe a Ferlacher? You'd know for shure that it VOULD be von gutt barrel, ja? ;~`)

An interesting link John
http://www.damasteel.com/firearms.html

Sweet.

Looks like those Swedes have been busy. The 2008 Damascus Cup and Show must have some eye candy fit to make one's knees weak and heart to palpitate. I have an especiale' weakness for classic Scandahoovian and Finn blades designs, anyway. Not much of a "Bowie" person, me. Tho of course, fine workmanship should be be in the context of the maker's intent, no matter one's personal aesthetic preferences.

Zoooooe...am I correct in assuming that on-hand ordering of fine twist design tubes is not quite yet a 'click' away? I certainly could have missed that sort of info from the website. Nor does the Swede powder-melt process capture [yet] the wonderful variety of High Victorian twist'em-up patterns. However, the potential to do that is there for the exploration.

In the meantime, it would appear that a patterned steel smoothbore could be assembled from those tubes. One wishes that we provincial fellows on this side of the Atlantic were more aware of International doin's from the fine Euro-makers. No doubt at all, that some of those bbl's are in use on fowlers of exquisite Guild craftsmanship.

Also, a word of thanks to you, and your contributors, for your hand in delivering and making accessible the information on Damascus. The acceleration of tech info and history of the smoothbore and fine guns made possible by Dave's gathering place is nearly Quantum. A very fine community, indeed.

"Beam me up, Scotty." ;~`)

Another dead end

From the Royal Armouries
"I have consulted with our Curator if Firearms, Mr. Peter Smithurst, who has informed me that we do not have any named examples of Damascus barrels in our collection."

This may be a job for Indiana Jones

Well done, Drew!

Thanks Geno.
Mike Baines gave me another lead, the UK Gun Trade Asc.
http://www.guntradeassociation.co.uk/