What is the best method to remove soaked in oil and dirt from stocks?

Thanks

Acetone bath (Wonko Brew method) works great, however I usually soak the stock for no longer then required (usually 12-24 hours). Those who've had problems using this method have soaked their stocks for many days.
Search some of the recent questions posted by Burch.
Steve

Thanks. Is the Wonko Brew method posted by Burch?

Is this method better / more effective than using a birchwood casey stock conditioner?

With thanks to JC, I copied this from an earlier post.
Steve

Hello Burch,

From my archives I can contribute with the stock 'washing' part:

(Removing the old original finish)

Get a disposable aluminum roaster pan at the supermarket that is large enough for the stock. Stop by your Home Depot or whatever and get a gallon of acetone and a gallon of alcohol. If the stock has a plastic finish you might want a can of some paste stripper too. Use that first if the outside finish requires it. If the stock has a varnish or oil finish the acetone will lift that with no problem. Then toss the stock in the roaster and pour in the acetone (it will also neutralize the paste stripper). Cover the wood until it floats. Then pull off a good length of aluminum foil and make a cover for the "tank", sealing it as well as possible. Be aware that acetone is highly volatile and smoking the cigar over the top of it is not recommended. Let the things soak for several days, turning the wood over a couple times a day. When you feel like you're tired of that, and the acetone looks like it has quit changing color, pour the acetone back in the can, rinse the roaster out with alcohol, and then soak the stock in the alcohol just like you did in the acetone. When you yank the baby out of the alcohol bath it will be CLEAN! And you can seal it and refinish it anyway you want after you let it dry a couple days.


The Wonko-Brew works GREAT.... BUT... be very careful. I stripped a stock that I had spliced ( I was growing it back 3 inches that it had lost), and the two pieces shrank... differentially. So be aware that it does take moisture out of wood, even a 97 year old LC Smith stock. After stripping, you might want to let it stabalize a few days befor econtinuing with any fitting.
Good news was that I left everything sitting on my bench, per recommendation of Pete Hiatt and Dr. Gaddy and several others, and in 30 days the two pieces were back to their perfect fit. You can't tell the diffeence now, but for a while I was a bit perturbed.
Regards
GKT Greg Tag

You can also weigh it down with something like a plate [not plastic, ;-)] so as to avoid having to turn it over.

JC
_________________________

thanks Rockdoc

Should I look for a specific kind of alcohol (i.e. Rubbing Alcohol). Please pardon my ignorance, but I'm completely unfamiliar with this process.

I believe you want denatured alcohol, at the Depot.

I believe that the alcohol has or attracts a lot of water and swells the wood. You will have to wait a week or two after soaking before it returns back to size. You will most likely also find it takes a while for the acetone to leave the wood. The smell test will tell you when it is gone.

I have always just used the acetone bath and never for more then 24 hours. In addition, I let the stock dry for a few hours only before I begin applying finish (typically Tru-Oil with a rag). Others may disagree (as is their right) but I've done 7-8 stocks this way and have always been very pleased with the results.
Steve

It worked great for cleaning things up. I had an issue with mine, it seems the stock and forearm we`re not from the same blank so I got two different colors.

Burch

I have a round titanium tank (true) which I used to put on an off the shelf hot pad, in which I would boil (about 120 degrees) a stock in tricloroethelyn (spelling?) for about 15 - 20 minutes.

Very environmentally unfriendly, I'm afraid. You have to do it outside and be sure not to breath the fumes (extremely caustic).

That stuff is a non-flameable dry cleaners cleaning solvent. You used to be able to buy it off the shelf at hardware stores, but it hasn't been available that way for years.


The heat helps bring the oil to the surface which is immediately leached off. It helps get oil out of the interior of the wood, not just the top surfaces.

I have boiled water and mixed with dawn dishwashing detergent, then place the butt stock and forearm in this mix for 5 to 10 minutes at a time. Take out and scrubbed with a nylon brush. This process did clean most of the surface oil and dirt from the stock areas as well as the checkered areas. The heat and water also raised any dents. However, the area around the grip that usually had a heavier concentration of oil and dirt did not clean up as well. So what I was looking for is a process that would pull the stuff that seems to be deep in the the wood.

I've had mixed results getting all the stains from oil, and, whatever, out of old gunstock wood. One particular stock defied every method attempted, and I finally gave up and bought a different stock. In the end, that was the only way left to go, and it was the best option.
Some stains, are just that.
Best,
Ted

I have had good success with Lacquer Thinner in a spray bottle, spray it on the effected area until you have a strong drip and run off going. Let it drip dry and repeat several more times until the thinner is running out is clear. Most of the cases I have encountered have just been the head of the stock being saturated with oil, so I have not had a need to soak the whole stock. Not to say these sort of cases don't exist, just that I have not had the opportunity to work with one. As several others have mentioned, do wait for the thinner to fully evaporate before attempting finishing. I usually wait at least 8 hours, probably overkill but I prefer to play it safe. Just my two cents...

I'm looking to refinish the stock and fore end of an older (about 40 years, no collector value) shotgun. Do you recommend this method as a good way to strip the old finish and stain?

Lldub, Trichlorethelyne was probably the greatest thing for removing grease, dirt, oil, from metal parts, etc.. Also was used as a dry fly floatant. Also very bad for your health.
If you still use this stuff please use the appropriate respirator, or send it to me.

If there is bedding compound on the wood, will the acetone hurt it?

After all this soaking what happens to the wood in terms of dimensions? Does it swell enough and stay swelled enough when dry to be proud of the metal? If so, a light sanding won't change the wood/metal fit.

OTOH, if it returns to it's original dimensions sanding might bring it below the metal's line, or is sanding generally not needed? Does an acetone/alcohol soak raise whiskers?

The alcohol may raise whiskers and will swell the stock more because it attracts water and usually has some in it to begin with.

My experience, which is limited to 3 or 4 stocks is that they return to original size. I would not work on the stock until you are satisfied it is done shrinking. I have found that I had to soak three days and in one case I had to do it twice to get all the oil out.

Be careful about previous repairs since the glue will be dissolved. I don't know if epoxy is affected but most other glues are affected by the acetone, alcohol and the inevitable water (even in small amounts) in the acetone and alcohol.

Don't worry, I was well aware of the danger and took precautions. But I haven't seen any of the stuff for 10 years now.

There is one thing that might be tried, which I think worked, but have gotten back to that project yet.

It uses the same container/hot pad idea from my post above. Heat is really the key, if you can do it safely. There's some stuff at home depot in the stripper section. I'm not at home and can't think of the name. But it's bluish and comes in a semi clear plastic 1 gal container. It appears to be water based. It's non-flameable.

I heated it up in my container until it boiled/simmered. Then I put the stock in it for maybe 10 minutes. It stripped the small amount of finish that was left on my test stock right off. And, seemed to do a good job degreasing the head. I checked to see if the inletting had expanded, and it did not appear to have done so as the action/tangs/etc seemed to fit right in. It was probably because the stock was in the "stuff" for only 10 minutes.

Again, use caution as it's a chemical and you don't want to breath hot chemicals. Also wear gloves, if you think you want to try something like this.

One side effect was that it seem to "dull" the tone of the wood. So as a last step I used a two part Teak wood cleaner. That involves wetting the wood but not "soaking" it. It restored the natural color and it appears everything is good to go. We'll see.

It could work, although it would require lots of elbow grease as Lacquer Thinner often will only soften the finish rather than completely remove it. A better and easer method for a complete finish strip is to use a good, commercially available, spray-on striper (the more dangerous according to the labels, generally the better unfortunately) along with 00 steel wool. Don't use anything finer as the steel strands can become imbedded in the wood. just follow the instructions on the can and you should be good to go. Hope this helps...

Anyone have before and after photos of stocks they've successfully done this to?


--Tinker

I've posted before and after photos in the past, the last one was of an 1878 Colt, that was a few years ago. I don't have the pictures anymore, sorry about that.
One of the bad things about digital photography is that it's easy to delete your old photos.
Steve

Rockdoc, thank you for your mention.

I also have an annotated edition of Wonko's Brew:


The Brew -- actually two successive soaks
Forum: The gunshop.com Double Gun BBS
Re: Question for Zaphod on stripping a stock............(more) (Don Nolan)
Date: Mar 01, 13:45
From: JohnM

There have been repeated request for this on various BBS's. I had occasion to rewrite it, cause I couldn't find my file. So, if any of you have mislaid this useful little procedure, here 'tis:
The "Wonko the Sane" method for stripping oilsoaked gunstocks and finishes

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Foreword from JohnM:

My training in antique furniture repair is as conservator -- the most preservation with the least damage. Regarding the restoration of military relics and old guns, an Enfield BBS discussion about "sacrilege!" defined exactly, that there is a fine dividing line between (1) stabilizing the decline of the object, (2) achieving and preserving a stable, well-cared for appearance that doesn't obliterate the object's history, and (3) "Ooopsie! It's really frigged up now. Kiss the history and value goodby!".

A lot of what you do depends on the object itself: how bad is it and is it getting worse? What then, is your restoration goal? How will you achieve it without going past it? I see a great deal of merit for a good, nondestructive cleaning of wood and metal. Excess amounts of petroleum oil are particularly destructive to stock wood. A useful substance for an overall cleaning, found here in the 'States is called D&L Hand Cleaner. [This is NOT conservation approved by the twinkle-toed museum set, BTW! ;~`)]

"D&L" is a nonabrasive, stiff white jell, that is sold in a widemouth can at autoparts stores for hand cleaning. Do NOT try to use the orange, gritty stuff or other pumice and abrasive hand cleaners. The homogenized petroleum solvents, detergents, and surfactants in the D&L will get a LOT of crud off. I'd be interested to hear of it's effect on old cosmoline, should anyone want to try it. Rinse with common paint thinner and rub dry.

For the most severe cases, I think the following procedure { WONKO's } is the least destructive, but the most complete: because -- the oven cleaner, dish washer, sandpaper and steel wool, et. al. are all much harder on the wood and historic surfaces and they all have some failings. I will be very happy to correspond with folks who try this, as an old military rifle provides the greatest cleaning challenge of which I'm aware, so far as pure grease, grime, dirt, soaked in petroleum [wood-eating!] oil, and excessive finish.

I cribbed this off the Shooting Sportsman board a couple of years ago, posted by a now-departed fellow named "Wonko the Sane" Hope it proves useful. Save as a word doc, because I won't. ;~`). This is more or less as i remember it. Any rudeness must certainly be mine. ;~`)

THE METHOD:

Go to the hardware store [or chemist, for the Brit's] and buy a gallon of acetone and a gallon of denatured alcohol. It's relatively cheaper than retail paint strippers.


~~~~~~~~~~~~WARNING~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DANGER!!!: READ THIS NOW!
The stuff BLOWS UP if you assist it to do so.
Don't make sparks, smoke 'whatever',place by hot water heaters and furnaces or otherwise make it go boom. OK?

It's the READER'S responsibility NOW.
Don't kill your family by fire, just because you won't care enough to read and heed prominently posted warnings regarding the use and storage of potentially hazardous articles. Also, use good VENTILATION: the furnace room in wintertime is a poor place to be doing this. You need some fresh air circulation.


NOTHING PERSONAL!
WHY this method? It's prob'ly the SAFEST METHOD I know of, given the few elementary precautions to be followed. The materials have a relatively low toxicity rating (TLV - Threshold Limit Value). They are safer to handle and use, chemically speaking, then most retail strippers. AND they do a great job with virtually zip work by you. From a preservation standpoint, it leaves the wood undamaged.

BEGIN:
You need (1) a big, cheap FUNNEL from the auto parts store. You should have a batch of (2) nitrile or latex GLOVES -- pinch 'em from the doc or dentist; they'll just spend the money on shotguns anywayz. (3) a pair of safety glasses or GOGGLES -- y'all can figure that one out, right? You need (4) a PAN made of stainless steel, or porcelain, or other non-reactive material which is big enough to hold the wood from which you wish to remove the oil/and or finish. Find something that won't dissolve in the acetone for (5) a tight COVER [no plastics]. Plywood cut to shape and held down with a brick or spring clamps work.

Ideas: The funnels are useful for pouring things about. Paint strainers (paint store or hardware where you got the solvents) help keep the gunk out of the cleared solvents by putting them in the funnels when you do the pouring. The gloves keep the stuff from being absorbed thru yer hide.

First: Put the stock wood in the pan and carefully pour acetone over it, until it is generously covered. Put on the lid. Turn the floating wood over in a couple of days. Again. Leave it for a week, total. The finish should be pretty much gone. Take the wood out and pour off the acetone into a container, where all the gunk will settle to the bottom in a week or so. Pour the clear acetone back in the can it came in. Reuse it as needed.

Second: Now put the wood back in the clean pan and cover it with Alcohol. Same drill for a week. The wood should now be clean right down in every li'l pore, and suitable for glassing the stock head, repairing cracks, applying new finish, and the rest. The alcohol can be cleared by precipitation and time, same as before, and reused.

Last: I like to take some clean alcohol and a small natural bristle brush to scrub up the piece, directly I pull it out. Then, rinse and dry with a clean towel. No sanding needed; the wood should be smooth as....[a baby's butt!;~`)]... could be. It preserves the stamped markings and doesn't raise the grain; or rarely, very little.

HELPFUL STUFF:
Sometimes, rarely, this won't clean stuff the first time. [NOTE: Wonko had never tried old SMLE's, so it may take a couple of soaks, indeed!!!] If ever it doesn't look as though the finish let go into the acetone, the first time, drain it off. Give it another week of fresh acetone. This is also useful for really deeply soaked-in gun oil. Then use the alcohol soak, same as above. No, or very, little sanding needed, the wood will be smooth.
Go from there -- Then say thanks to St. Wonko the Sane. Sacrifice some flyers in his memory, [He was a pigeon-ring shooter] , and put on the finish of your choice. I've heard clarified yak butter is the traditional thing, on the Himalayan rock pigeon circuit. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


JC(AL)

For deeply oil soaked wood, the solvents such as acetone, alcohol, or lacquer work well. If the oil and grime is on or near the surface, common household ammonia followed by Tide or Dawn detergent does a good job. Ammonia mixed with oils and fats creates soap, which of course rinses off with hot water. Sometimes you can get away with a partial soak of just the head of the stock in stronger solvents. Common isopropyl rubbing alcohol will remove the finish on many older guns, so they may be shellac or something else that is alcohol soluble.

If after soaking in acetone you still have a persistent black stain anywhere on the wood, you have a black water or iron stain.
This is a totally different animal. Use Oxalic Acid (trade name - wood bleach) to remove it. It can be found in some hardware stores and most of the better paint stores. Follow directions and more importantly, precautions.

Best, Dan