I have just turned up an interesting story. as many of you know, Holland & Holland did not have a factory until 1893. Before that, their guns were supplied by W&C Scott, some being finished and stocked by John Robertson.

In 1893 Holland & Holland opened their own factory in London and since that time all Holland & Holland guns have been made in London. They commenced production with teh serial number 17000 in 1893.

Today, I took delivery of a Holland & Holland hammer gun. I thought it interesting because it has steel barrels and a bar action, rather than the usual Scott back-action type.

When I began digging in the records, I dicovered this useful information tayyied with the serial number on my gun - 17000!

I believe I have the first 'real' Holland & Holland London-made gun. And who said there is nothing left to find?!

The gun is in unrestord condition, needs re-proofing and a bit of cosmetic cleaning up but the walls are 28 thou at their thinnest and well over 35 thou in most of their length. It will be a very nice gun and I'm very much looking forward to puttting the first 'London H&H' to use on pheasants before the season is over.

I thought there were stories of H&H having a few guns including Royals made by another firm in England? Maybe in the 1970-80's?

Not that it takes away from your cool find.

Let's see some pictures.

Can you cock both hammers readily with your trigger hand thumb? I ask as part of the debate on how to carry a hammergun loaded in the field.

Regards

What a wonderful find! I look forward to hearing and seeing more!

I believe that the first ever Beesley patent Purdey was re-discovered some years back; it had been handed by a grandfater to his ne'er-do-well grandson; grandson lopped the barrels and stock and held up a shop 'cos he was short of cash; he was caught; police were the ones to contact the makers and discover it's history...
RG

Wow! what a find. With documentation, it could be an extremely valuable gun, I would think.

I would think that H & H would pay much just to rent the gun from you to have it on display when you are not using it. Fantastic Find! Congrats. Slate

Holts just sold Harris holland's 4-bore double live pigeon gun and i know someone who has Mr Froome's 120-bore . H&H were not interested in buying either!

Smallbore, I think that Hollands guns started at 16,000 [to 16999] in 1893. I have a copy of a production record on a typical late Royal dated late in that range in 1897. Were the hammer guns in a different group of numbers that include guns and rifles?

Donald Dallas lists their records for the new factory in 1893 beginning with 17000. I'm going to give him a call later and have a chat about it.

BTW I took it to bits last night to clean it - it was pretty dirty but no corrosion. alcohol and cotton buds with a bit of fine wire wool lifted the dirt nicely and the engraving is really very nice. Locks and springs are very high quality.

If you look closely at Dallas' book, it lists "Guns" from serial 16000-16999 from 1893-1897. It also lists "Guns and Rifles" from 17000-18000 from 1893-1905. This section of serial numbers seems more confusing than others, but from my observation, the 16000 serial range included the Royals. I don't think you find these in the 17000 range, but never say never.

There are also Paradox guns in the 15000-15600 serial range made 1891-1902.