Ok guys, I'm going to go to the dark side, I can't afford to shot ducks & geese with my Parker, at $3 a pop bismuth, TM, and nice shot, and Heavy shot vintage are ridiculous, and no fun to hunt with, especially when we aren't even sure some are safe for our good guns.
So here's the question, what is the "best" cheap (under $500 range) crappy SxS that I can buy to shoot to pieces the slowest with hot, fast, loads of big steel shot. Is the Stoeger or the Remington Spartan the route (gawd those are some ugly guns!!!) or do you guys have some suggestions. I don't like shooting O/Us, so SxS only! I want something with 2 barrels that will go bang for less than $80 bucks a box of shells!
I promise to carry this ugly duckling to the marsh well concealed, and only hunt alone out of shame....
I have shot steel for years thru my Ithaca SKB mod. 100 choked IC & mod, so far no apparent damage and pretty much decided when I started shooting steel thru it the $ really wern't worth worrying about to get to shoot a fairly decent gun for my duck and goose hunting.
I don't think there are a lot of sub $500 SKB's out there, at least not in my area. What about one of the big 10ga Zabalas?
Certainly not crappy, but sometimes available in your price range:
Charles Daly 500 or Miroku 500. I bought one practically NIB for $550. Open the chokes and you're good to go with 2-3/4" steel loads. If you insist on 3" loads, look for a beater Browning BSS 12 gauge (and make sure you don't head out with M/F chokes). These are fine with steel, although not all feel that way.
My SxS duck gun for 3" steel: Pietro Bernardelli, 12 ga, DT, English grip, splinter, extractors, oil finished wood. New about 3 yrs ago at $375 (closeout). You will pay more now for a used one, but it's a very decent gun, made in Italy (not Turkey). Also available with PG, ST, beavertail if you look around. A fine gun for the money.
Another vote for the SKB 100,150,200's I have shot them for years and currently have a couple.One was originally a 30" mod and full, 2 3/4", which with carbide reamers is 30" mod and mod, and 3" with long forcing cones. This gun with 3" Federal 1550 fps 1 1/8 oz.
#2 and BB steel will kill mallards and snow geese cleanly to 50 yds. This gun has shot 1000's of steel loads over the years and has no scoring, no bulging, and is tight with the lever still right of center.I think they are amazing guns and excellent value. Might find one for your budget but worth spending a little more to get one. IMHO
If you're willing to spend $500 in order to save a dollar per shell, buy the Bismuth, and shoot a gun you enjoy. Unless you're a market hunter, you'll shoot for years, and still be ahead.
How about a Savage Fox 311 or similar? + the BS-E, B etc, etc.
These should all be in your price range. I have no interests in any of these auctions.
A Zabala Kestrel 12ga
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=85091973DeFourney 12ga
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=85016491Daly 500 12ga
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=85063597Armsport 10ga
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=84925070For the 10ga, get set of Little Skeeters. Grind one side to allow the ejector to grab the shell, then use loctite to hold them in place. Or spend a few dollars more and get chambermates.
No need to hunt in shame... unless you do this to it:
Pete
Always hunt with a gun you enjoy; life's too short for anything else. The SKB Model 100 is the best buy on the market and any difference in your gun-to-abuse price and the SKB, according to Roy's auction lists, is as nothing compared to the enjoyment and satisfaction of a good gun.
Facing the same dilemma (along with rust in the salty chesapeake bay) I found a new in box Beretta 525. I had the chokes opened to shoot hevi-shot and haven't looked back. The bonus is it balances almost exactly like my Model 21, so I don't even have to get used to it.
DH
. The bonus is it balances almost exactly like my Model 21, so I don't even have to get used to it.
DH [/quote]
So does a 6ft 2X4..................
Duck shooting in Nova Scotia is almost all-saltwater shooting, and in a lifetime I've never seen a problem with rust. We just clean guns when we get home, before we kiss the wife and kids, do our chores, or eat. Guns come first. Rust is a myth where gunners set aside, what, seven minutes to clean one?
There's not a speck of rust on my rack of doubles dating from 1899 to 1938. (The "new" SKB is nearly 40 and, like the others, exposed to everything the North Atlantic can throw). I don't understand the need for beaters or anything less than the guns we bought to hunt ducks with smiles on our faces.
I like the C. Daly by Miroku but not @ 26" barrels and 6-1/2 lbs. not for duck shooting. I would inquire into the De Fourney. Ask the seller what his reserve price is and go from there. It has 32" barrels and is likely heavy enough to not beat you to a pulp. My personal choice for heavy duck and/or goose shooting would be a gas auto, cheapest being a Remington 1100.
I've been hunting with a Stoeger uplander for about 10 years now, Not a heck of alot different from a hardware store American double from the first half of the last century.
Not particularly attractive, but it shoulders well and is still as tight as new after many rounds of steel through it.
Came with fixed 26" IC MOD and probably still under $400.
If I'm shooting ducks on the local swamps the 16 and the Bismuth comes out. When I'm out for geese or on the bay, the Stoeger with steel 2s has worked on everything.
Cheers.
Tom
Find a Nitro Special and open the chokes up. Not a top level gun but a solid shooter that can often be found for less than $500.00. Modern metal, decent stock dimensions and not the end of the world if you get them wet or drop them overboard.
Watch the front trigger room. My biggest complaint about them is the smallish trigger guard. Not a problem without gloves but I watch it with gloves on. Makes the rest of the group in the blind get a bit jumpy if you have a slightly early accidental discharge.
CZ-Huglu NOT crappy Reasonably priced..
Fabarms classic lion if u can find one. they are more than 800, but a good gun.
Any thoughts to selling one or two other guns to buy a more modern steel compatible gun? There are some nice buys to be made if you look around. sites like marks(or mikes) born again bird guns may be a starting point.
good luck.
Thanks for the input guys, I'll have some ideas on what to go take a look at at a show or two. As to $500 bucks saving, that really wont go too far with bismuth right now-I cannot find any, anywhere-stores, websites, etc. etc.. Tungesten matrix is running close to $3.60 a shell, as is nice shot, and the classic double hevi shot. I can buy premium steel shot for about $0.71 a shot, 20% the price of the other stuff!
Lets say I shoot 277 shells in a waterfowl season, here is the math!
So for $1000 I can have a $500 gun, and 704 steel shells
or 278 shells of tungesten matrix. After shooting 278 times, I'll have only empty hulls with TM-but with the steel route I'll have another gun and 426 leftover shells.. Hmmm....
Why a side by side how about an over/under and why not a Ruger Red label. American built and built to take abuse. All these guys out there that are destroying these old American doubles like the Nitro Special are nut jobs, for one they're not being built so there's always going to be a limited supply and there are plenty of doubles out there that are cheap enough to abuse without destroying yet another old American double that wasn't built to handle steel.
All the best
I shoot a Russian Stevens 411, about the same as the Remington Spartan or whatever. I have extra long extended tubes in it, too. I shoot Hevi-Shot, Or Tungsten Matrix because that is what I have found that works best, so far. I don't shoot nearly as much as I used to, and when I consider the total costs I am going to shoot what I like, if I possibly can. I do not like steel and have had mixed results with Bismuth. I used to handload nickel plated shot with Mica and grex and the whole shebang.
I don't think the gun looks all that bad, it is tough, and works well. The trigger guard fits over gloves well. It shoots where you point it.
I have a BSS and a 28 ga. Winchester for doves and quail, but the way I waterfowl hunt it would pain me to treat a nicer gun that way. I grew up shooting a Stevens 311, and if I could have found one of those with 30" full and full tubes and 3" chambers I would probably be shooting that.
I am not a gun snob (obviously). I shoot what I like and what works for me and I want my shooting companions to shoot whatever they like. As long as we all have a good time it's all that matters.
I like Chuck's answer. I grew up shooting Stevens 311 and I bought one not long ago for that reason alone. They are low priced and you wont feel bad about beating the death out of them.
I looked at a SKB, Spartan, and Stoeger today, (on another note, why don't some gun shops oil/wipe down there guns ahhh!). I'm not drooling over any of them, but I'm still considering. The Stoeger I looked at could be picked up cheap ($200 or so), and the store owner said they've had it a long time, its already got some tarnishing/light rust from handling (and its new), they said that SxS don't do well in their store-I would think not it you let them rust on the rack....
I'm hitting the marsh with the 870 Wingmaster 30" barrel in the morning, the geese are here, and I've got a fresh box of T's-should be fun!