Just happen to me a few weeks ago. In my case it was "downright fraud" or, more accurately, theft. Paid for items that I never got, no response to emails, searched their name on another gun forum and there is a whole lot of posts about the sight being fraudulent. In my case there is not much recourse but we DID report them to the bank and the bank was going to contact their bank and let them know that their business is fraudulent.
...when you get screwed by a gun dealer. Misrepresentation, downright fraud.
Asking for a friend.
Does this have anything to do with any of the gun dealers who do continual Free Advertising of their business ventures in their taglines here, and apparently neglect to pay Dave the $12.00 fee for each and every sale they make as a result of those Free Ads?
If so, you can expect a shrill and estrogen fueled triggered response, personal attacks, and some nasty Spam PM's.....however, expecting them to act with integrity and do the right thing is another story entirely.
I dont buy anything bigger than an Amazon dvd on line. I would NEVER buy a gun and have it shipped to me. I want to see items first hand. Looking at pictures of something on line doesn't prove anything. Too many scams, ID thefts and frauds going on. I would never pay my bills with checks or credit cards. Maybe a credit card if absolutely the only way. All my bills get paid with money orders from the local gas station. And I would never, ever, EVER give someone my credit card and let them take out monthly payments and let them take out whatever they want. Once you agree to do that, you are setting yourself up to be robbed. And once I use a credit card and the sale is complete, I call my bank, tell them I lost my credit card and I need a new one. That way you keep the same account but the new card will have a different number on it. And no one can use your account to buy anything. Works for me.
I dont buy anything bigger than an Amazon dvd on line. I would NEVER buy a gun and have it shipped to me. I want to see items first hand. Looking at pictures of something on line doesn't prove anything. Too many scams, ID thefts and frauds going on. I would never pay my bills with checks or credit cards. Maybe a credit card if absolutely the only way. All my bills get paid with money orders from the local gas station. And I would never, ever, EVER give someone my credit card and let them take out monthly payments and let them take out whatever they want. Once you agree to do that, you are setting yourself up to be robbed. And once I use a credit card and the sale is complete, I call my bank, tell them I lost my credit card and I need a new one. That way you keep the same account but the new card will have a different number on it. And no one can use your account to buy anything. Works for me.
I have had two FFl dealers try to burn me on deals from a auction on line. I ended up having help come from the Postal Inspector, LEO and in the end both lost their FFL. GunBroker was absolutely no help at all. It boiled down to using the mail to commit wire fraud. I did get some help from local law enforcement but it was limited. I was a lot younger back then and was much more likely to spend more money and time than being rational when I got pissed off. I have several other guns with defects hidden by careful camera angles or defects not noted in the description. As a rule I will return the gun if it bothers me enough or if it is minor just move along. I just do not have the desire to go off the deep end much anymore. I did once upon a time.
For example, I had a person bounce a check for about $1,800.00, back in the 90's, just before he moved to Vegas. I reached out to a retire police officer I knew who moved to Vegas after retiring and asked him if he ran across the fellow to drop me a line. What he did was make a couple inquires with security for other casinos as he was working at a casino in security. Sure enough my man was working as a dealer in one of those casinos and the head of security called me. I explained I was looking for a person who bounced a check just before moving to Vegas. He asked me to fax him a copy of the check. Yeah it was that long ago. They called him in and asked him about the bad check. He tried to BS them and that was a mistake. They fired the dealer and walked him out of the building. He was deemed a security risk to the casino and they were quick to cut their losses. I did get paid by the casino the full amount of the bad check. I understand every casino in Vega got a warning about him. I doubt he stayed in Vega long after that.
Do what you are comfortable with. Minor things I just write off these days. If it were a major thing, maybe not so much. But if you have documentation I would post a warning for others. Other would not and I understand their reluctance.
I dont buy anything bigger than an Amazon dvd on line. I would NEVER buy a gun and have it shipped to me. I want to see items first hand. Looking at pictures of something on line doesn't prove anything. Too many scams, ID thefts and frauds going on. I would never pay my bills with checks or credit cards. Maybe a credit card if absolutely the only way. All my bills get paid with money orders from the local gas station. And I would never, ever, EVER give someone my credit card and let them take out monthly payments and let them take out whatever they want. Once you agree to do that, you are setting yourself up to be robbed. And once I use a credit card and the sale is complete, I call my bank, tell them I lost my credit card and I need a new one. That way you keep the same account but the new card will have a different number on it. And no one can use your account to buy anything. Works for me.
Best, Ted
And yet here's a thread with people complaining about being sca-rooed. 🙄🙄
If you remember, back in February of 2021 when they had that big storm in Texas and people's Electric were off for 3 days. People received electric bills for thousands of dollars. One guy ended up having to pay $17,000 for 3 Days of electric outage. He was silly enough to give the electric company his credit card for them to deduct his monthly bill. He actually had $17,000 in his bank account and they took it out to pay his bill. Once you give someone access to your credit card they can legally take out whatever they want because you have given them permission to do so. Some of the people got a part of their money back in that instance, but why go through that hassle. You should never ever give someone access to your credit cards or you are asking for trouble. You can Google that story it was all over the news at the time. Don't believe me? Go to Google and type in- "man receives $17,000 Electric bill in Texas during outage in February 2021." You can read the story for yourself. During that outage the guys electric bill jumped from 8 to 10 cents per kilowatt hour up to $900 per kilowatt hour.
If you remember, back in February of 2021 when they had that big storm in Texas and people's Electric were off for 3 days. People received electric bills for thousands of dollars. One guy ended up having to pay $17,000 for 3 Days of electric outage. He was silly enough to give the electric company his credit card for them to deduct his monthly bill. He actually had $17,000 in his bank account and they took it out to pay his bill. Once you give someone access to your credit card they can legally take out whatever they want because you have given them permission to do so. Some of the people got a part of their money back in that instance, but why go through that hassle. You should never ever give someone access to your credit cards or you are asking for trouble. You can Google that story it was all over the news at the time. Don't believe me? Go to Google and type in- "man receives $17,000 Electric bill in Texas during outage in February 2021." You can read the story for yourself. During that outage the guys electric bill jumped from 8 to 10 cents per kilowatt hour up to $900 per kilowatt hour.
Let me guess... the root cause of everything was Climate Change and CO2.
Bob, hope it’s works out for you and if not it was a small deal. I think most of the real dealers are stand up guys, at least the ones that have been in the trade for awhile. The ones that I think are more likely to take advantage of someone are the guys who have an ffl as a hobbyist
The good dealers I feel wish to have a good reputation
There have been a few in the past that I have know well that while I liked them personally I would not do business with them as I did not like what they were doing in the trade.
I do want to apologize to those of you who enjoy purchasing guns online. I know a lot of you have great success doing this and I did not mean to offend you whether you buy or sell guns online. Anymore, I am just so tired of having the wrong item sent, the wrong size and getting home and finding I ended up with the wrong thing. I have become very cautious about going through the hassles and arguments of not being satisfied with what I was wanting to begin with. Take care.
quote=Bob Cash]...when you get screwed by a gun dealer. Misrepresentation, downright fraud.
Asking for a friend.
Just cry like a little baby, Bob.....you and your friend will feel so much better.
' How did it come to this? Really makes me wonder Buzz.[/quote]Getting ripped off by a gun dealer is just part of the learning curve, Steve. It's happened to most, if not all of us who have been in the collector game long enough. If it is an out of state deal that went south, good luck. There's really very little that can be done. I was defrauded once upon a time by a well known dealer that you all know about. I complained about it here and my bud Bob absolutely lit me up running to their defense. Now, everyone knows what kind of businessmen they really are. But at the time, good 'ole Bob made me out to be the bad guy. Well, karma is a [censored - come on man!]. And, as I said, if the deal that went south is an out of state sort of deal, crying like a baby is about all one can do when dealing with dishonest folks. For example, think of the cost of any sort of litigation. It likely won't be worth it. Lick you wounds and move on is about all one can do.
Bob, I really don't understand what you are asking for here? Ultimately want to specify the dealer for all to know? then skip the shenanigans and put it out there. Looking for creative solutions? Fair enough... I like the casino story above. There are clearly different opinions/ levels/ definiations of "screwed" - but if you didn't get the product or outright lost your money, call the law. It may help. The family and I flew to Florida last year to drive home a unique and rare imported Land Cruiser. The only car I have ever bought at an actual car dealership, and it was the biggest hassle I have ever had... It took 150 days to get a title from that dealer. I had the local sherrif, the Attorney general's office, and a local Senior citizen's "crime fighting" group hounding the guy before it was all done. I hope you find a solution.
This time last year I got the hots for an Iside 28 ga. Best deal offered was by a company--I hesitate to identify them, so I'll use the company's initials. B-I-G D-A-D-D-Y U-N-L-I-M-I-T-E-D, an online firearms "buyer's club" with a small fee to join. After placing the order I received an email confirming the order, I received a notice from seller that the distributor had a backlog due to employee illnesses. Two weeks, no big deal, so I'll wait. Then another notice of issues from the seller that the distributor was further delayed. Oh, oh. I then researched the company and found many complaints at the Better Business Bureau and also on Reddit. There were complaints about slow delivery times and slow to refund purchase prices. The issues circled around the fact that they didn't have inventory, but instead had an office full of computers (boiler room) that searched for deals country wide with heavens knows who while sitting on the buyer's money. Stories of stalled "deliveries" lasting for weeks into months at a time on various firearms related items. I just checked today on the current status with the BBB. The company BBB has ALERT in red letters noting numerous complaints of slow delivery and refunds with no response by the company to the BBB. Fortunately I paid via credit card. I immediately canceled my order and asked for immediate credit back to my credit card. It took about a week for it to be credited. Ultimately, the company didn't screw me, just some "heavy petting". I looked at another gun forum site and found that Lion Country Supply was a reliable source and called them. They didn't have the 28 ga. in stock, but checked with the distributor who would get it to them in two days. I got the gun delivered to my LGS in a week. The cost was about $200 more than the "buyer's club", but it was worth the peace of mind to pay it and get the gun promptly. Of the lessons learned, and there was more than one, when buying online, use a credit card, even if there is an additional fee for its use. Gil
I was shocked when I recently found out that a very famous "gun person" was a fraud. He wrote a book about a certain type of gun and several of the guns pictured in his book were fraudulent. And I couldn't have gotten the story from a more reliable source, so I had to believe it. 🤔
well then, perhaps next time, author would provide a disclaimer, stating that this is not a real situation and is just an exercise in spontaneous pontification...
we already have enough phonies particapating this fine forum, to now have it polluted by phony threads about make believe topics...
I recently purchased a sxs hammer gun from a high profile dealer on Gunbroker. Most of the dealers give very good descriptions as they sometimes have years of knowledge. Many private individuals do not have the knowledge to describe a double gun in detail. But even an experienced dealer can get it wrong. In the description the gun was said to be tight and on face. When it arrived it had substantial play and it was definitely off face and needed a rejoin. It also had several undisclosed dents in the left barrel. I overlooked those because I could take care of those myself. The dealer apologized and gave me the option to return it. I explained I liked the gun enough to keep it and that returning it was a hassle. He offered to kick in some money and I thought it had a satisfactory conclusion. It doesn't always work out like that but this time it did. Most of us have that been around the block a time or two and know what to look for when trying to judge a double. Even if it is only by pictures. But other things such as loose or raised ribs, resoldered barrel lugs, barrel dents, pitting, stock dimensions, length of pull, cracks in the wood, etc, etc. seem to evade some people in their listings mostly because they simply don't possess the knowledge to do so. No one is perfect and most gun guys I have found are not crooks...at least intentionally.
...when you get screwed by a gun dealer. Misrepresentation, downright fraud.
Asking for a friend.
Just cry like a little baby, Bob.....you and your friend will feel so much better.
Originally Posted by SKB
' How did it come to this? Really makes me wonder Buzz.
I'm glad that Buzz took the time to explain his terse reply to Bob. But it shouldn't have been necessary for Buzz to explain to SKB Stevie that he was less than polite simply because of how poorly Bob treated him in a similar circumstance. Of course, those of us who pay attention to these things know that Buzz (and many others) have been on the receiving end of Bob's vitriol, insults, and personal attacks many times. My very first encounter with Bob came immediately after I questioned an attack he made on a now deceased member named Miller. There has been no love lost between us ever since.
And Stevie here not only knows that, but has also teamed up with Bob to attack many of the same people, and even joined forces with Bob in the same sustained internet doxxing attack. We don't operate in a vacuum here, where things like that are just forgiven and forgotten. So when one of the big participants acts like he/she has no idea what is going on, well that phony behavior is simply another form of fraud and misrepresentation. Some of the proof of that has unfortunately been deleted, but much remains in the archives.
I personally only got cheated one time in a transaction with a local gun dealer. Using kind gentle persuasion, I got back every M*****F***-ing penny that he tried to cheat me out of. As he grudgingly refunded my money, he told me to never come into his shop again. I sweetly and kindly replied that was fine, because I would never want to do business with a F***ing crook like him again. Then I warned every shooting friend I knew that he was a crook, and I had written proof of that. So it makes me wonder why we still have no details about this alleged "misrepresentation", and "downright fraud"???
I've order two used guns, sight unseen, recently from different vendors. I couldn't be more satisfied. The next order could go sideways, but long time, reputable dealers want the business and will protect their reputations. The convenient driving distance world is far too small at times.
I've order two used guns, sight unseen, recently from different vendors. I couldn't be more satisfied. The next order could go sideways, but long time, reputable dealers want the business and will protect their reputations. The convenient driving distance world is far too small at times.
Hey!! Sounds great!! Show us pictures and tell us what you bought. Sounds like you really bought some cool guns. We can't wait to see them. Have fun, buddy.