Have seen a order card for a Fox graded shotgun that states Pitch Point Blank. What does that mean? Just never heard that term before. Gun was made circa 1933.

That's a good one, Tom. I'll be interested to know what that means, too.

The pitch is the angle of the buttstock in reference to the barrel or rib of the gun.

I know that, but what is Pitch Point Blank? What does the term mean?

or maybe pitch point is the angle of the heel of the butt stock...

90 degrees or points could mean neutral or no pitch or pitch blank?

less than 90 points would indicate some degree of pitch forward, which makes the gun shoot lower...

conversely, more than 90 points of pitch indicates pitch rearward, which should result in the gun shooting higher?

or not....

It means the angle that the pad sits on the buttstock. Or the angle of the butt in reference to the rib. It is usually adjusted for the amount of recoil.

ah like jimmy's simple answer...

The angle of the pitch affects the point of impact of the charge.

I suspect the “Pitch Point Blank” means that the gun is intended to deliver the centre of the pattern to the point of aim.

What we would probably call 50/50 these days.

Jimmy still doesn't explain the "three word terminology".

Is it........ Pitch - Point Blank,

is it ........Pitch Point - Blank,

is it ........Pitch - Point - Blank?

None make sense to me. I've known what pitch was as long as I can remember, but like tut I've never seen that three-word terminology ever used before.

Now that makes sense. The gun was ordered with a 2" DAH. Unusual for a sxs I'd think back in those days.

Personally, I interpret Pitch Point Blank to mean whoever was filling out the build instructions did not provide written pitch dimensions in the blank where it should have been provided. Therefore, someone needed to follow-up and get that information.

Personally, I interpret Pitch Point Blank to mean whoever was filling out the build instructions did not provide written pitch dimensions in the blank where it should have been provided. Therefore, someone needed to follow-up and get that information.

They are most likely telling you the PITCH of the gun. The pitch of the gun is: POINT BLANK. Meaning that there is no pitch on the gun. The angle of the end of the buttstock is 90 degrees from the rib. That tells you that there is 0 pitch on the gun. If you stand the gun with the rib against the wall, the butt of the gun will be flat on the floor. THAT is how you tell the PITCH of a gun. How 'bout that?

For those of you who didn't know- "point blank" is a term meaning zero. As in point blank range- meaning- no range. Or the artillary term- point blank elevation, meaning- zero elevation. So, I apologize. I thought people knew that.

👍

Thanks for the point blank explanation, Jimmy.

In rifle shooting “point blank range” is generally taken to be the maximum range at which a shot can be taken using the sight setting without adjusting or allowing up or down for drop.

It is dependent on calibre, quarry and kill zone size.

Taking plus or minus 1 1/2 inches deviation above or below line of sight as acceptable this gives .22 Long Rifle a point blank range of about 60 yards, and most deer rifles a point blank range of 225 yards or thereabouts,

Finally! Yes, that is the definition of point blank range. Exactly how the etymology of that shakes out, but that is the proper definition, as used in things like the ballistic software (c.f. jbmballistics.com).

Thank you for pointing this out!! That is exactly what I said: "without adjusting or allowing up or down for drop" which means: ZERO ELEVATION. So, I still believe that the term (of this one particular gun in question) PITCH POINT BLANK means that the rib of the gun is 90 degrees from the end of the buttstock where the pad is placed on. And that creates ZERO ELEVATION. Someone like a coroner or law enforcement will use the layman's term" POINT BLANK RANGE" very close or zero feet. Or close enough to leave powder stains, no matter what type of gun was used. Sorry again for the confusion.

Yeah!! Yeah!! I know what you are going to say next: The angle of the rib to the end of the buttstock can be 90 degrees on a trap gun. But the beads are stacked!!?? Give me a break people!! 🤪

Actually, pitch has a minimal effect upon point of impact, as compared to other stock dimensions such as drop at heel and comb, and stock cast. Pitch is more important in gun fitting to maximize the area of contact of the buttplate with the shoulder pocket. This has the effect of helping to minimize felt recoil. This also aids in helping shooters of different physical stature have a consistent and more comfortable gun mount while shooting. Severely incorrect pitch, negative or positive, does have the effect of creating more muzzle flip, either up or down. So because of that it can influence point of impact. But again, not nearly as much as drop at comb and heel, or stock cast. That's because those other dimensions have much more influence on correctly and naturally aligning the shooters' eye with the rib or bore axis. With shotguns, it must be remembered that the shooter's eye is in effect the rear sight.

None of that, nor arguments about "point blank range" for sight settings in rifles or artillery has anything to do with the mystery of what "Pitch Point Blank" meant on the order card for this particular Fox shotgun. Perhaps it would help us to make an educated guess if the Fox shotgun associated with that order card is also available, and if we knew for certain that it was built according to those specs, and if we also knew the gun was still in that original stock configuration. Then measurements of the actual pitch could be taken to try to make some sense out of it. But barring an explanation from the guy who wrote those instructions on the order card, we would all still be just guessing.

I have never seen or heard the term "Pitch Point Blank" to describe stock pitch, so I am abstaining from playing guessing games.

FWIW, the DAC was 1.5" and the DAH was 2.0". I'd think that was a trap gun, but it was a 20 gauge, ordered with 2 3/4" chambers in the 30's.

watt kinda fed wuz you?

You are absolutely right. Having the correct pitch on a gun DOES help minimize recoil. If you shoot 300 targets in three days with 1 1/8 oz. 12 gauge loads, having the correct pitch on a gun does help. Of course, I did mention that back on the sixth post. That term was also used as a military term, because if you are on a ship, firing from the side, you have to know this elevation or the guns could shoot down into the water. And as Parabola mentioned, you have to know the correct range of your weapon to avoid this.

The kind that can't answer questions on the internet about my previous career. Loose lips sink ships.