Hi all, was wondering what you all think about the quality, fit, finish and overall workmanship of AyA sidelocks made in the 1970's?
I know each gun is different, but just want to get a general opinion.
Thanks as always!!!!!
Greg
1970 guns were with beutifully finished stock, very compact ,balanced shotgun with excellent pattern....but now quality is questinable......
I certainly do not agree that today's AyA guns are of "questinable" quality. They produce a leader line of guns that is of lower quality than their upper end guns, as does every maker just about that you can name. Well, save those VERY few that truly do make only Best guns. AyA's upper lines of guns are of very good quality, equal quite likely to any Spanish gun currently made. I have two older guns currently, one is a 20 gauge model 53E that is absolutely an upland hunters dream, a wonderful sidelock top of the line gun in every respect, and I also have a model 207 pigeon gun, 12 gauge, a European model not commonly seen here. It's a scalloped back boxlock action with very good scroll engraving over maybe 80% or so of the action, and is a very strong and very well made gun for heavier use. I have had other AyA guns as well. In general, the upper lines are very nicely made guns, IMHO.
I bought a #2 AYA in 1965 and it has never given any problems,still looks like a nice gun. The price was a little better in 1965. $176.00.
I am with the Chief on this one Greg. And I am also surprised by a perception that their current production is of questionable quality. If anything, AYA has done a tremendous job over the last couple of decades getting stability into their middle grade guns (their first quality guns have always been excellent). I do not have a SXS from that era, but I do have a model 37 OU. It is a full, detachable side lock (Merkel design), and is as finally a constructed gun as I have ever seen.
A couple of months ago I bought a AYA from a local pawn shop. The gun is in excellent condition. It is a sxs boxlock (not sure of the model #) with 27 1/2 tubes. It was imported by Sears. At 400 bucks, I felt like it was a bargin compared to the price you would pay to get into a new low end AYA today.
Is this gun close to what you would buy today from AYA, or is it like comparing apples and oranges?
Regards,
Max
Max the Sears gun is a solid boxlock but was part of the problem that AYA had (has) with its product line. The same gun maker was/is building sidelocks in the multi-thousand dollar range which were competitive with "Best" guns anywhere. It is a challenge for marketing to sell to both the well-heeled and the utility market under the same brand.
I have owned several No.2's. My 12b is a late 70's production and my 20b is an early 90's production.
There are night and day differences in the finish. The 90's production is excellent in wood to metal, and metal to metal.
The 70's production is equal in terms of wood to metal, but not in metal to metal. The 70's production isn't nearly as tight where the sidelocks nest in the frame. This isn't associated with wear and tear.
That said, it has still gone bang every time I pulled the triggers, which is probably about a thousand times.
If you get one at the right price, go for it. But I've found that there hasn't been a lot of difference in price between earlier and later No. 2's.
Hope this helps......
Since AyAs are all hand-finished guns, they should be judged individually.
I have two No. 2s and two No. 53s, with proof dates of 1975, 1978 and 2009.
You have to look close to find flaws with any of them.
The most noticeable qualitative difference is that the 1978 No. 2 has the plainest wood.
If I could keep only one, it would be one of the 1975s, a No. 53.
Mr. Khan's statement is being misinterpreted. He is not implying that present AYA gun quality is "questionable". His use of "now" is not what readers are thinking.
I have a Model No. 1 12 bore made in 1969. At that time they were trying hard to get into the English market with competitive guns of good quality. I feel that the late 60's and early 70's was a good time for quality. Certainly with what they sent here. Lagopus…..
I have a Model 4A boxlock ejector built in 1981, been very happy with the gun. Removed the ejector springs as I prefer extractor guns and this one was a bit hard to close with the springs in. Other than that it fits me well. Overall very happy. Got other guns I would let go long before letting the AYA go.
WBLDon
I have owned several AYA side by sides over the years. No high grade guns though. I do remember back in the 80's when the Spanish gun trade was in a bad way a group joined forces under the name, Diarm, I beleive that is correct. I think quality suffered during that period.
The newer guns are very nice and dependable and I read the #1 imported selling gun in the UK.
I would love to have a #1 or a Model 56 AYA.
max
Is your Sears AYA a J.C. Higgins Model 100 ?
Mike
I have a 4/53 12 gauge that I ordered new in 1998.
This gun has fired well over 10,000 rounds without a bit of trouble.
Most of these shots have been light 7/8 ounce target loads but it is still as tight as it was when it was at 500 rounds.
I think most Spanish guns need to be judged individually. I have had Aya 53 with no flaws at all, Garbi 103 A special with great wood but rather flat engraving and the inletting on the forearm was fair. Grulla 209 which was perfect in every way, Aya #2 which is excellent other than the forearm inletting again not perfect. I have a pair of Arietta's that are high grade and perfect.
I have a 1968 AyA No. 2, 20 gauge, excellent metal fit and engraving, plain vanilla wood.
I have no experience with AyA, so no comment. However, I would like to add some to the following comment.
"Well, save those VERY few that truly do make only Best guns."
Boss claimed "best guns only." Their less-than-best were branded with their shop manager's name, John Roberts, I believe. With the foregoing possible exception, all other makers supplied whatever the customer was willing to pay for. Few makers had all the talent needed for a best gun within their in-workers at any one time. Most of the time some of the work was done by contract out-workers. The men capable of best work were well known within the trade. Any brand could get out a best work gun via the trade. The trick was getting the order. It should be no surprise to to find an obscure brand on a best work gun. Value due to brand? Brand Value 1 (BV1) @ $8X, BV2 @ $6X, BV3 @ $4X, BV4 @ $2X, and BV5 @ $1X; the foregoing for five guns of equal original quality work and in the same current condition.
DDA
Their less-than-best were branded with their shop manager's name, John Roberts, I believe.
I believe it was 'Robert
son"
He acquired the company when Thomas Boss died in 1891. Prior to that, Robertson was a gunmaker who worked for others (including Boss)
I own a Model 4/53 boxlock 28 gauge with full coverage scroll and ribbon engraving. For the price, it is a very well fit and finished gun. I'd certainly buy another were I still in the acquisition rather than disposition mode.
How about Henry Aiken?? From Purdey's-- what was the deal on that brand?? Heard old J.P.Morgan had a pair of his 12 bores once upon a time..
Likely you are right. I couldn't remember whether it was Roberts or Robertson. Thanks for the correction.
DDA
How about Henry Aiken?? From Purdey's-- what was the deal on that brand?? Heard old J.P.Morgan had a pair of his 12 bores once upon a time..
It was Henry Atkin (father and son both of that name, father having been with Purdeys). Their "Spring Opener" model introduced circa 1909 was the top model and was based on the same Beesley action used by James Purdey with minor differences. Edwin and Lionel Hodges provided the gunmaking lead after younger Atkin's death.
Older guns have a little bit softer steel but no issues all my AYA were bought in late 70 early 80s my biggest complaint is price from then to now
Just had a few year old AYA sidelock leave the shop after reducing the angles of the locking engagements. Gun had the issue of opening with heavier loads. With light loads you could watch the lever jump to the right when firing.
I have owned several SXS AYAs, mostly sidelocks but a few boxlocks. At least half of them didn't shoot together. I have a No 4 that placed the barrels' point of impact 10" apart at 25 yards. I couldn't figure why I missed with the back trigger until I patterned it. I've also had a few with broken parts, particularly springs. That's why used AYAs bring about 50% of their new cost. I had a plain Ugartachea 20GA that never missed a lick and brought down birds at very long ranges with IC chokes. I don't own any Spanish guns now.
How about Henry Aiken?? From Purdey's-- what was the deal on that brand?? Heard old J.P.Morgan had a pair of his 12 bores once upon a time..
It was Henry Atkin (father and son both of that name, father having been with Purdeys). Their "Spring Opener" model introduced circa 1909 was the top model and was based on the same Beesley action used by James Purdey with minor differences. Edwin and Lionel Hodges provided the gunmaking lead after younger Atkin's death.
I seem to recall that the late English gun writer Gough Thomas shot a bespoke Atkin.