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Posted By: gjw Favorite Gun/Game Pictures - 2023 Hunting Season - 08/30/23 11:22 PM
Hey all, as in years past, thought I'd start this thread for this years season.

Please stay on topic, be kind, no personal insults or snarky comments. Let's just have fun here and enjoy all the posts.

Wishing you all a very successful and especially safe season!

So, let's see all those great pictures.

Best Regards

Greg
Greg,
Thanks again for the start-up! 15 days until Grousemas, counting it down. The coming season is looking promising.
Best wishes to everyone for a safe and satisfying season.
Karl
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Thankyou as well Greg. Counting down the days here too. New toy for use during grousmas this year...

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a very light 12 for selective use only (on bright days w/nearly full freezers) .

Very much looking forward to seeing all this again...

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Hope springs eternal!
Can't wait for the doves... gonna try a new spot along the railroad tracks down by the river. Hope for some action.
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Possibly off topic????
Hound training season here in VA, my son was pretty excited to tag along with a friend of mine.

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Marks 21: Nice Lefever.
Nice pics, Marks 21. I love seeing hunt scenes from different areas of the country.

We will have a nice lunch tomorrow at the shed and rest a bit, then my youngest grandson Lane and I will join the rest of the party in the sunflower field. The high temp tomorrow afternoon is forecast at 82 degrees. Believe me when i say this is a gift. I've seen it 102 on opening day. I'm so excited I will likely fall sleep tonight as visions of sugarplum....NO, doves, dance in my head. Please pardon the silliness, but tomorrow IS a close second to CHRISTmas Day for me, each year. Pics tomorrow evening.
Yep, beautiful weather here too. After some of us put the finishing touches on the property today, we are going to do a low country boil tonight. Got to love the cooler weather for that. Wheat was burned a couple weeks ago, corn still standing in strategically placed rows. After shoot tomorrow, big shindig with barbecue, frog legs, etc with a band and even a fireworks finale (first time we have tried that). The shoot organizer is a go big or go home type of guy. I would rather miss Christmas than opening day of dove season.
Looking forward to a hot opener .....the shooting experience, not the 105*F that is forecast.
I share Stan's enthusiasm for the opener much as I did as a 6 year old.
Changing plans today , don't really want to sit in a field at that temperature in early-mid afternoon..... so going wait until later and shoot a waterhole, or rather shoot the flight line to the water, some 100+ yards in front of it.
Shooting solo until Monday, my son runs a business for us in Florida, he's going up tomorrow to retrieve his plane that had to be evacuated to higher shelter in front of Idalia , delayed his arrival plans a few days.

LOTS of Doves here in the Cow Country currently, scouting this week makes me feel like 15 bird limits will be quick half hour (or less) outings for those who can put the pattern in the right place.
Good Luck to everyone , let's get the season started.....
Tucker and I dodged the heat this morning. Lucy is retired, again. On the hill at 8am and promptly realized I was hunting Blues again after I slipped and face planted into a Russian Thistle. Not long afterwards we moved a nice big covey right where I figured they would be. No shots taken on the initial flush due to low flying birds and the position of Tucker. A slacker bird flushed way out and I missed twice. Reloaded and a bird was barreling down hill and on top of my before I knew it, missed once incoming and again going away. Yup....hunting Blues. Tuck and I climbed the rocky ridge looking for singles, no love. We descended and I watched him hit scent out in front of me, the birds flushed behind me and I missed them twice as they were barreling down hill. Ahead of us a bird flushed from a pine well out of range, as I approached another flushed still too far out. A third bird from the same pine flushed, this time well within range giving me a nice easy going away shot..I finally connected. Tucker made a nice retrieve and we caught our breath and took a drink. It was starting to really warm up. I knew two more birds should be on the top of the ridge somewhere. Not much farther ahead a bird flushed from a tree and my only chance was to bend down and try a shot under a branch that was obstructing my view. I tickled that bird, not hit hard but definitely hit. Tucker did not see the bird land but picked up the trail right away. A short chase through the underbrush and we now had our second bird. Back at the truck by 8:50 and covered in sweat. A fine way to start the season.


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First day shooting my new to me C.S. Rosson.

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Tough day 100 degrees, windy, Daly O/U with 410 Anschutz barrels.
11 Doves, WHEW, this getting older is tough
Mike
“410 Anschutz barrels” -are they inserts?
No, I think Miroku made that same guns for Daly, Mirokus, Anschutz and Pre-type 1 Citoris

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[quote=Marks_21]Possibly off topic????
Hound training season here in VA, my son was pretty excited to tag along with a friend of mine.

Love that you’re keeping the traditions alive there in VA with all the counter pressure and that you’re passing it on to the next generation.

(Older son is a VPI grad)
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Greg,
Looks pretty inviting! Hope your sport across the pond goes well, see you when you return.
Karl
I know I promised pics but I didn't come through with them. Took from 2:45 'til almost 6 pm to take a limit of 15 doves with the 30" Dickinson .410 S X S, but it finally came happened. Hurricane Idalia, a few days ago, ran a lot of the doves off that were formerly feeding in the field, but we had a fun shoot anyway. Can't complain when I get enough shooting to take a limit, even tho' it was late and I didn't get pics. Sorry 'bout that. I shot fair, nothing to write home about, but am extremely grateful to have lived to see another season, and to participate in it. Life is indeed good!
Tough day 100 degrees, windy, Daly O/U 20 gauge barrels.
13 Doves, WHEW, this getting older is tough
Mike
I hate taking up space on Greg"s great Photo thread, but I too didn't take any pics today.
Hot here, 106*F on the truck dash, 4 hours south of where Mike (poster above) hunts, but the wind dropped below 10 mph and birds again FLOCKED to another water hole here on the ranch. Limited out in a very short 20 minutes and shot pretty well, but quite a bit below my stellar start yesterday. I shot a FN 30" D5G grade 20 bore O/U today. 7/8 oz Winchester AA 8's.
Picking up the 15 birds seemed to take longer than shooting them.
Birds were still pouring into the water when I left. My son will be joining me next week and he will handle pictures....Like the Georgia farmer above, I am grateful for another shooting season, and the health to enjoy it.
Good Luck to All as your seasons begin.
Working cocker’s in the Heather
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Absolutely beautiful, CZ. You are very fortunate.
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Hustle
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Tucker and I moved a couple of nice sized coveys this morning and took a couple more birds.



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We moved two big coveys this morning, another couple of birds in the bag. Well over 20 flushes, I missed one and tickled another but we could not pick it up again. Not a bad morning it the least.

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I had an absolutely wonderful first two hunts, with my middle son and his lovely wife. Weather was too nice. A cool wave with lows in the lower 50’s caused a lot of our birds to depart. With the heat returning I expect a reverse migration of sorts, some next week will be better. Where we had almost a thousand birds feeding two weeks ago, was down to just a hundred to hundred and fifty. So no big waves, but mostly singles and pairs spread out over most of a half day. Limits were taken but shooting was less than perfect. Took me 37 shells with my late uncles Crescent .410, opening day. Day two was better with my 42. Son shot a 20 gauge model 12 opening day and Ruger 28 day two. Daughter in law used her Bernelli which she uses for everything both days. I don’t hunt Sundays.

Most appreciated was my dog who got to retrieve every bird. Without her more than a dozen would have been lost I’m afraid. She even found several which fell into a hedge row that we had no hope of searching properly. To say my dog and I were both delighted would be an understatement. A lab can smile, with a Dove in its mouth, and wag its rear so hard her back end almost passes her front, as she brings birds back. That was her. Head held high, with excitement everywhere.

Last year she missed most of Dove season, being off to the breeders. Next week her son gets his first hunt. I look forwards to that. Mom gets Teal in the morning and son gets Dove in the afternoon. You need to pass it on to your children and your dogs “children”, I have found. I honor my late uncle by shooting his .410 crescent, opening day and now take my kids and soon my dog’s offspring as well. Wishing everyone good hunts and good, clear memories of great times.
Today it was Ruffed Grouse with the Powell…



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From a marginal position, I scratched down four in the morning on opening day and two in the afternoon. I started out with my 12 gauge side-by-side, moved into the 12 gauge O/U, and finished up with the 12 gauge hammer. The weather was pleasant, the sunrise was beautiful, and the cigar was tasty!

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We got an invite at the last minute and it was a good one. Small hunt but birds flew well. 28 gauge Parker VH

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Another short hunt, we moved two coveys, a large one and a small one. Took one bird out of the small covey on the rise, they mostly set in the trees with most then moving down the canyon. No singles to be found so we moved farther down the ridge line. I knew Tucker picked up birds about 100 yards from where we found the large covey the other day, it is really thick in that spot and if the birds flush to the North like they usually do they only give a very small window for shooting. Missed two birds on that rise, it is a hard spot to play right but we will try another approach later in the year. We pushed on a bit farther down the ridge with no luck. Heading back to the truck and approaching the area where we busted up the small covey Tuck picked up a single on the ground, made a beautiful flush and I made a nice right to left crossing shot. Another wonderful morning on the hill.


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Owen, how did the old Boss hammer do? What shells did you shoot thru it?
Today, I took an L.C. Smith Quality 3 made in 1893, great fun smile
From this morning, the first day in the field for us.

Gus's 15th hunting season. He is 14 yr, 2 mo, and 2 days old today.
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We got one chance this morning and we made the most of it, taking two birds from the flock.
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Gus is never in a hurry. He enjoys it too much.
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My Cashmore Hammer gun. 12b, 2.5" chambers. Kinda plain but it suits me well and I shoot it well too. Albeit, Ted hates the hell out of it. But that's okay smile
Load was a bit on the heavy side using black and bismuth, but it's what I had on hand.
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And Gus is ready to tell the world, he is still in the game.
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Great to see Gus still getting it Done, amazing really! Lucy is almost the same age, a few weeks older but she just does not have the strength anymore. Looks like a great way to spend a morning Brent.
I don’t hate your gun. Whatever works. But, it appears in the photo you have red plastic snap caps installed in it.

Those, I would hate. No doubt, they would suit somebody.

Best,
Ted
I LOVE that Dog..... and the excitement he feels.......my den is a coven for some geriatric Setters.... Dove retrieves brings them to attention, albeit briefly in this heat....
Originally Posted by Ted Schefelbein
I don’t hate your gun. Whatever works. But, it appears in the photo you have red plastic snap caps installed in it.

Those, I would hate. No doubt, they would suit somebody.

Best,
Ted

You, you went on a classic tirade about. It was hilarious. But you've forgotten.

Those are not snap caps. Good grief you are thick.
Originally Posted by BrentD, Prof
Originally Posted by Ted Schefelbein
I don’t hate your gun. Whatever works. But, it appears in the photo you have red plastic snap caps installed in it.

Those, I would hate. No doubt, they would suit somebody.

Best,
Ted

You, you went on a classic tirade about. It was hilarious. But you've forgotten.

Those are not snap caps. Good grief you are thick.

He’s thick? At least he doesn’t run a gps collar on a 14 year old dog that’s waterfowling. What a dolt.
Gentlemen, gentlemen, tisk, tisk
First Nebraska prairie chicken of the season…
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Sitting at home nursing a new hip at 80 years old, I am missing the sharptail and Hun seasons so far. I enjoy all of your pictures and thoughts , especially the cockers on the heather, and after retrieves stretch at 14 years old. My Wirehair is 13, older than all of my other hunters ever made it. I’m hoping we can enjoy pheasants in Oct.
I hope you mend quickly enough to enjoy October, too, Daryl. Stories like yours give this annual thread added purpose.
Brent,
That last picture of your dog say's it all, absolutely wonderful!
Karl
Originally Posted by Karl Graebner
Brent,
That last picture of your dog say's it all, absolutely wonderful!
Karl

Thanks. Gus as never lacked for enthusiasm.
Here he is, at 4 months old on his first bird hunt. You can see all the same behaviors. It's been a hell of a ride.

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I got a bit of bad news today. I found a lump on my Lab nipple area checking her for ticks after hunting. Took her into the vets. It is most likely cancer I am afraid. Sx set and we will go from there. I had hoped to have one more liter of pups next year by her. Afraid that is not going to happen. Only four, so she is in prime health up to now, but cancer is never good in a loved one, be they on two legs or four. Very depressing news in my house but we will do what we can for her. Good dogs are a gift. Vet did say a small chance it is not cancer but it sounded like one in ten chance. Still I'll take it. Time will tell.
Originally Posted by LeFusil
Originally Posted by BrentD, Prof
Originally Posted by Ted Schefelbein
I don’t hate your gun. Whatever works. But, it appears in the photo you have red plastic snap caps installed in it.

Those, I would hate. No doubt, they would suit somebody.

Best,
Ted

You, you went on a classic tirade about. It was hilarious. But you've forgotten.

Those are not snap caps. Good grief you are thick.

He’s thick? At least he doesn’t run a gps collar on a 14 year old dog that’s waterfowling. What a dolt.

A 14-yr old dog with almost no directional hearing and questionable eye sight, who, in the dark can get confused and take off in the wrong direction. Not to mention it has tone and vibrate functions which allow me to communicate with him when he can't see me. You don't know much about training collars or old dogs. But you sure want to take me on. Good thing I didn't use my Merkel, eh? smile Carry on.
Originally Posted by PALUNC
Owen, how did the old Boss hammer do? What shells did you shoot thru it?
Mike I shot RST 1oz 7.5 and had some success (2 birds). It looks great in a new case (Holt’s) refurbished by Kade Giles. I will try to post a picture later. RST has been doing mini drops of ammo over the past month and I have snapped up a few cases of 12ga.
Originally Posted by BrentD, Prof
Originally Posted by Ted Schefelbein
I don’t hate your gun. Whatever works. But, it appears in the photo you have red plastic snap caps installed in it.

Those, I would hate. No doubt, they would suit somebody.

Best,
Ted

You, you went on a classic tirade about. It was hilarious. But you've forgotten.

Those are not snap caps. Good grief you are thick.
I was going to say..... I thought they were ACTIV shells.
Originally Posted by Jimmy W
Originally Posted by BrentD, Prof
Originally Posted by Ted Schefelbein
I don’t hate your gun. Whatever works. But, it appears in the photo you have red plastic snap caps installed in it.

Those, I would hate. No doubt, they would suit somebody.

Best,
Ted

You, you went on a classic tirade about. It was hilarious. But you've forgotten.

Those are not snap caps. Good grief you are thick.
I was going to say..... I thought they were ACTIV shells.

Right you are. They make excellent black powder cases.

Hammergun with snap caps? In the field? Someone wasn't thinking.

Again.
Are you sure that your dog has cancer, KY Jon? A lot of times a dog can get lumps on their stomachs that mean nothing. I had a female Weimaraner that had a few (quarter sized) lumps on her stomach at an early age and she lived to be 12 years old. Sometimes they are just fatty tissue or growths. Make sure before you worry too much. But good luck.
Originally Posted by BrentD, Prof
Originally Posted by Jimmy W
Originally Posted by BrentD, Prof
....classic tirade....hilarious....Good grief you are thick.
I was going to say..... I thought they were ACTIV shells.

Right you are....Someone wasn't thinking.

Again.
I figured it was something simple, a teachable moment.
Originally Posted by craigd
Originally Posted by BrentD, Prof
Originally Posted by Jimmy W
Originally Posted by BrentD, Prof
....classic tirade....hilarious....Good grief you are thick.
I was going to say..... I thought they were ACTIV shells.

Right you are....Someone wasn't thinking.

Again.
I figured it was something simple, a teachable moment.

Or an opportunity for you to be a jerk.
Originally Posted by craigd
Originally Posted by BrentD, Prof
Originally Posted by Jimmy W
Originally Posted by BrentD, Prof
....classic tirade....hilarious....Good grief you are thick.
I was going to say..... I thought they were ACTIV shells.

Right you are....Someone wasn't thinking.

Again.
I figured it was something simple, a teachable moment.

🤣🤣🤣🤣
I have about a dozen boxes of Activ 20bore.
They were quite sharp.
Huge hull volume.
Originally Posted by ClapperZapper
I have about a dozen boxes of Activ 20bore.
They were quite sharp.
Huge hull volume.

That volume is a great help when loading black. One of two significant advantages.
I can't get the ACTIVs to load on my MEC. When I reload, all that is available to me are Cheddite primers. And they don't go all the way into the ACTIV hulls. About one out of every ten jams up my machine and with the primer hanging out-- they jam up and makes the wheel keep from rotating. So, for now I have to stop reloading them until I get different primers. But that's okay. I have a zillion Nitro 27s and a garbage bag full of the old AAs. The Cheddites work fine in them. And the new/never fired Winchester Super Targets stick in my Ljutic and it doesn't extract them. If it isn't one thing............:(
I always had very good results loading 12 ga. ACTIV hulls. They seemed to interchange with the old style AAs without much adjustment. I haven't tried to reload any with Cheddite primers. I use a lot of Cheddites now but in those days I used WW 209s exclusively. Though I use MEC presses now, in those days I was loading on a Texan single stage.
Originally Posted by Jimmy W
I can't get the ACTIVs to load on my MEC. When I reload, all that is available to me are Cheddite primers. And they don't go all the way into the ACTIV hulls. About one out of every ten jams up my machine and with the primer hanging out-- they jam up and makes the wheel keep from rotating. So, for now I have to stop reloading them until I get different primers. But that's okay. I have a zillion Nitro 27s and a garbage bag full of the old AAs. The Cheddites work fine in them. And the new/never fired Winchester Super Targets stick in my Ljutic and it doesn't extract them. If it isn't one thing............:(


These were loaded a while ago with Win 209s. I still have a few hundred for select hunting loads.

The cases seem to have a lot of volume, which is required for Blackpowder, and they don't burn through easily like Cheddite plastic or become quickly crispy at the case mouth like Winchesters. Much more volume than WAAs in my opinion, but I've not measured them in direct comparison. The other nice feature is that, if you throw the fired hulls back into the ziplock with the loaded hulls, they will not corrode the heads of the shells. Even brass-washed steel heads on conventional cases will corrode with enough humidity and the fumes off of those fired hulls.

I handload all of mine like they are competition-grade rifle shells. For hunting, that's not a big deal, but I wouldn't want to load for clays like that. They are all finished with a roll crimp.
Originally Posted by LeFusil
First Nebraska prairie chicken of the season…
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Wow!! That thing even looks dead!! Beautiful gun!! smile
Originally Posted by Stanton Hillis
I always had very good results loading 12 ga. ACTIV hulls. They seemed to interchange with the old style AAs without much adjustment. I haven't tried to reload any with Cheddite primers. I use a lot of Cheddites now but in those days I used WW 209s exclusively. Though I use MEC presses now, in those days I was loading on a Texan single stage.
Same here. I always used the 209s for years. They are the only primers I ever used. But now they are nowhere to be found. I have access to plenty of Cheddites. They work in everything else. Guys at my club always tossed brand new/once fired Nitro 27s and the green Remingtons on the trap field. So I have plenty. Let us know how the Cheddites work in the ACTIVs when you start loading them with the Cheddites. It would be interesting to see how they work for you. Take care. smile
Last drive
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Originally Posted by ClapperZapper
Last drive
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How do they taste? Closer to a Spruce grouse/sharptail or a ruffed?
Oh no.
Like filet.
Will photo dinner tonight.
Double with a single double. Say that fast, 5 times…




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Originally Posted by Jimmy W
Let us know how the Cheddites work in the ACTIVs when you start loading them with the Cheddites. It would be interesting to see how they work for you. Take care. smile


Tried two Chedds just now, and they slid into the ACTIVs perfectly. Just like they are sliding into a newly trimmed batch of Federal Gold Medal papers.
Originally Posted by BrentD, Prof
Originally Posted by Jimmy W
Let us know how the Cheddites work in the ACTIVs when you start loading them with the Cheddites. It would be interesting to see how they work for you. Take care. smile


Tried two Chedds just now, and they slid into the ACTIVs perfectly. Just like they are sliding into a newly trimmed batch of Federal Gold Medal papers.
👌
Grouse dinner
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Grouse breasts ready for pan
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Resting
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For the Mrs.
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Good stuff. smile
Ok. I got an account with Imgur. How do I get a picture from Imgur to here? Help!!
Sign in to Imgur and go to “add images”.

Add the image you want to show from your photo library.

Then click on that image to select it and it should expand with a menu to the right.

On that Menu select BBC Code - message boards and forums . Hit “copy” and it should briefly show green to the left of copy.

Go to DGJ forum and open your reply or new post and select “paste”. It will show a line of code but when you hit “post reply” it should display (hopefully) your chosen picture.
Originally Posted by Jimmy W
Ok. I got an account with Imgur. How do I get a picture from Imgur to here? Help!!


Easy. You did the hard part.
Click on your picture. You will see your pic enlarged with a list of different types of links on the right. Look for the one that is labeled BBCode and click on Copy. Then paste that into the message you are composing, like this.
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Nicely done CZ.
CZ, those filets look great. Color says a lot like 'chickens or sharptail. Cooked right, rare, delicious! October's just ahead!
Chief
Another limit of blues…



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[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]Great pictures, guys!! Good luck!!
Spent the last few days in the Sandhills of Nebraska. The hills are especially beautiful this year. Lots of moisture during the spring and summer, in two decades of hunting the hills, I’ve never seen them like this. Absolutely stunning. The grass growth was unbelievable, if you’re familiar with this area, you’ll understand my next statement…..the area I hunted had no blowouts or sandpits. Everything was covered in grass, rose hips and sunflowers. Gorgeous.

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A typical Sandhills dove spot

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Originally Posted by shrapnel
Another limit of blues…



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Hard flushing blues are awesome game! Unfortunately, here in Utah…90% of the time….I’ve had to throw sticks at them to get em to flush. I’ve had them and ruffs sit on branches 5 ft off the ground just sit there and stare at me. Like this big boy…. I seriously could’ve reached up and pet him. And no….I didn’t shoot him. Any bird that stares and me and doesn’t give AF gets a pass from “The Fuse”.
I’ve also had blues walk on trails with me while hiking. 😂
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Well said, well done, Dustin.
I agree completely.
Great [pics, Dustin. You never disappoint with your photography.

Are the Sandhills free range cattle country? I assume the windmill and tank are for them.
Leased pastures. Open to hunting. Rotational grazing. On the Valentine anyway.

This is all a red grouse eats. Little flowers and tiny leaves.
Crop contents
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Partridge day in abominable heat
On the second drive, I stood next to a gyll (a rushing creek) down in a ravine and shot very well at higher birds (30-50 yds above) (they are referred to as “good birds”). while the water rushed at my feet providing a cool environment. Even though the shooting was hot.
Heading home tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by ClapperZapper
Partridge day in abominable heat
On the second drive, I stood next to a gyll (a rushing creek) down in a ravine and shot very well at higher birds (30-50 yds above) (they are referred to as “good birds”). while the water rushed at my feet providing a cool environment. Even though the shooting was hot.
Heading home tomorrow.

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That sounds like an amazing experience, from the field to the dining table. Did you bring your own guns or borrow/rent them?
I bring my own.
To save travel headaches, some years I leave them here.
My travel guns are a pair of Miroku Mk60’s. Easy to repair, and easy to replace if stolen.
More nice pics, CZ. Thanks.

Originally Posted by ClapperZapper
Partridge day in abominable heat.

How hot was it?
About 90 ambient
Over 100 up on the hills with no cover
The dogs, and the beaters, and the pickers up, all suffer greatly on these days.

I was experiencing some heat exhaustion by noon, and we agreed to shoot through and end the day as quickly as possible. It’s just too dangerous for the dogs in the heavy cover, the people up on the hills, and the birds really don’t fly their best when it’s that hot.
For the birds, is just like the marathon runner and a hot day. They run much better on a cool damp day. The birds basically pop up in the air, fly 50 yards, and then sit down, out of gas. That is not the best way to present the birds.

Being down in the gyll, we were able to drop birds in a place where the dogs picking up could cool themselves in the creek.
Climbing a 50 m hillside in the blazing sun is no fun.
Summer days with my lovely 28 ga W&E single barrel. Enjoying moments with wood pigeons in the countryside and in the kitchen, because good hunting ends on the plate.

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Marvellous pictures... and those empanadillas look phenomnenal!
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Originally Posted by JulesW
Marvellous pictures... and those empanadillas look phenomnenal!

Thank you very much! Yes, and the rice with pigeon taste great.

shrapnel, beautiful hammer gun with damascus barrels! What´s her name?
Took the Green out for a dove hunt on Saturday. 1oz RST 2 1/2. 7.5. The conditions were foggy all morning and visibility was about 50 yards. There was no way to see their approach and most shots were going away as they flew across my telephone pole hide. I actually wound up with a brace although I should have taken ten. There are fewer birds this year in NC although these birds were bigger than we had on opening day and I suspect they are recent arrivals.



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Owen,
Great photo! No dove hunting here in Michigan, so I can only imagine.........
Karl
Thanks Karl Doves are a lot of fun when they are present in numbers, but can be spotty in my area. Scouting…and a friend living near a recently cut silage field to provide intelligence are key!

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Owen,

Delightful to see an over and under Edwinson Green still in action. Let me know the serial number and I should be able to let you have a picture of the entry in Green’s order book.

PM me if you prefer,

Parabola
Thanks, parabola. I was fortunate to receive from the prior owner, a copy ledger entry for this gun, one of a pair. Interestingly, the ledger indicated choke as “imperceptible” for both tubes. Measured today, they are mod/mod.
Went shopping while in Edinburgh.
New shooting brake, to arrive some time in 2024.
Originally wanted white, but I drove the claret colored version, and changed my order.
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Originally Posted by ClapperZapper
Went shopping while in Edinburgh.
New shooting brake, to arrive some time in 2024.
Originally wanted white, but I drove the claret colored version, and changed my order.
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WellCZ, I’m sure that Grenadier is a neat ride, but when you see the new 2024 Toyota Land Cruiser, you may have a little buyers remorse.Hope it serves you well regardless. Is there a service network in Canada for those things?
JR
https://www.toyota.com/upcoming-vehicles/landcruiser/
As much a Toyota fanboy as anybody, the dependence of the new LT on twin turbos gives me the willies. Same for Tacoma, Tundra and future 4Runners. What could possibly wrong with something times 2 spinning at 150,000+ RPM? The new LT is an improvement over the previous mall crawler despite the turbos. Gil
The new Lexus off road didn’t do it for me. Not coarse enough.
Toyota seats don’t fit me, and my wife couldn’t get in and out.
They’ll be great cars, but just not for me.

I liked the Hyundai hybrid I rented in the UK more than the Defender 110 I rented. I felt like a Russian mobster driving a blacked out 110.
The grenadier, has a driveline I can deal with (BMW, ZF) and can tow 7500 pounds with integrated trailer brakes.
So my hunting trailer will get a new tow vehicle.

Will be seeing much of America in it, second half of 2024.
CZ, I remember your mentioning a couple of years ago that you had one ordered. Very glad that you have a delivery window now. (BTW love the Claret choice).

Personally, I have been waiting to trade for the ‘25 4Runner but have been really disappointed to learn that although they are returning to the Tacoma platform they are dropping the 3.5L V-6 in favor of the twin turbo 4. I have a lot of miles on the 3.5L in a Tacoma and the 4.0L V-6 before it in an 4Runner and both were/are great, easy working engines. Really a shame mileage and emissions requirements are pushing out their V-6’s.

Keep us updated on your Grenadier.
I am consciously making the decision to stay retro on this.
But anything derived from the Taco is 3 gens too old for me.
I don’t drive enough miles anymore. I don’t care about the reliability at 300,000 miles. I want to be comfortable, I want the interior to be quiet, I want the seats to make thousand mile days possible, and I want to be able to tow my grouse hunting rig anywhere I want to park it.
That is very different from vehicle derived from a taco.
My wife has a replacement hip, two new knees, and arthritic ankles. She loved the Recaro’s, so the rest is a no-brainer.

We don’t get to choose how long we are going to live. We only get to choose what we do with the time presented to us. So, the days of riding in a vehicle that punishes me with every $.50 saved on fuel or at resale, is no longer of any interest.
YMMV of course.
Originally Posted by ClapperZapper
I am consciously making the decision to stay retro on this.
But anything derived from the Taco is 3 gens too old for me.
I don’t drive enough miles anymore. I don’t care about the reliability at 300,000 miles. I want to be comfortable, I want the interior to be quiet, I want the seats to make thousand mile days possible, and I want to be able to tow my grouse hunting rig anywhere I want to park it.
That is very different from vehicle derived from a taco.
My wife has a replacement hip, two new knees, and arthritic ankles. She loved the Recaro’s, so the rest is a no-brainer.

We don’t get to choose how long we are going to live. We only get to choose what we do with the time presented to us. So, the days of riding in a vehicle that punishes me with every $.50 saved on fuel or at resale, is no longer of any interest.
YMMV of course.

Sounds like you could use a Ford. 1000-mile days are pretty nice in this one or my 2016.

I drove a brand new Land Rover around South Africa for a week or 10 days once. Dang, that was not a pleasant ride - sure was fun, but not gentle.
Ford has had great success with their twin-turbo V-6’s. Don’t see any reason Toyota wouldn’t either. That technology has been well proven for quite some time. And you can bet the new LC will NOT be uncomfortable, no matter your age or infirmity. I’m a little surprised your bionic wife can get into a Recaro, you almost put one of those seats on rather than sit down into one. But if she said she loved it, well…
JR
I think we all know if Toyota brings something to market, it is well developed and will be very serviceable. I think the move to the V6 TwinTurbo is for the fuel economy, and a smaller package size for a smaller frontal area.

Everything is a compromise.
A Suburban is great until you get stuck or need to turn around.
A pickup is too wide in the deeper forests.
Small SUV’s can’t carry gear for 4
I’m just glad I can drive what I feel like.
The exhaust note on the Lamborghini Urus, will rattle your windows. Lol.
Just for the record, the new LC has a twin-turbo four with hybrid assist. 326 hp and 465 ft lbs torque. Not too shabby.
JR
I really enjoyed driving the Hyundai hybrid. That huge torque in a small suv/car just makes it jump.
I’m guessing the Grenadier topped out around $85k with options?
JR
What is a Grenadier? What gauge is it smile How much does it weigh? Two Triggers

The devil made me do it, he he he
Btw, CZ, the snorkel is a nice touch…
JR
Glad I don't need to have a dedicated hunting rig that I can comfortably ride in for 1000 miles a day. Sometimes the quest for a do-everything vehicle is a pipe dream. The Grenadier may be it, but it's not for me. I can do long hunting trips just fine in my F250 Super Duty, and all my local hunting can be handled nicely in my '87 Jeep Wrangler with the transplanted Chevy 350 small block and the Chevy auto tranny and transfer case. Dependable as the sunrise, and zero depreciation.

Different strokes for different folks. Glad you're happy with it, CZ.

OBTW, turbochargers are so time tested and proven that they're beginning to be considered old school. I've got some on farm tractors that have been going strong in terrible conditions for 20+ years.
Originally Posted by skeettx
What is a Grenadier? What gauge is it smile How much does it weigh? Two Triggers

The devil made me do it, he he he
To get this thread back on track, the carb on the Toyota 22R engine was a 2 barrel. Gil
Another couple years and I will be upgrading my rig. Likely a used crew cab Tacoma but we will see. The Toyotas have been very good to me over the last 25 plus years.
After 23-years (and 170k miles) my faithful '01 Off-Road package Dodge has coughed up her transmission. I'll likely fix that and then hand her off to my son. CZs comments on comfort ring very true for me as well. Contemplating what my next recreational ride might be.

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Lots of spectacular adventures with this one...

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I was very suspicious of turbocharged units up until now, but my next rig will likely have one.
Crappy! Where's the dead birds! Right behind you Lloyd. Good luck!
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Shrapnel: beautiful hammergun. Bar-in-wood with a lifter. Even the the engraving is first-rate. What are the specs?
Originally Posted by Lloyd3
Shrapnel: beautiful hammergun. Bar-in-wood with a lifter. Even the the engraving is first-rate. What are the specs?


It is a William Powell lift lever 12 gauge shotgun. I saw it on the internet and had to buy it. It locks up tight, I have been shooting clays all summer with it and grouse this fall. I had Charlie from Hill Rod And Gun measure it and he said it was not in proof, but it has since been proofed with both 2 and 2 1/2 inch shells. I have several of these older hammer guns and love them. This was made in 1871 and thanks to Steve Helsley, I found out where and when the gun was originally shipped.


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It must be a pleasure to hunt and shoot clays with it! Has cocking indicators, right?
Aren’t they gas vents?
If you are speaking of the William Powell gun, it would often have load indicatiors , which would be printed on the firing pin's exposed sides. Often these pins were gold plated.
I see them now,

Parabola
Cocking indicators? - Yes, AKA 'Hammers'
Gas vents? - No. The holes are in the traverse pin—the “axle” that passes horizontally through the fences and the lifter lever - and upon which the lifter pivots. The holes are
for a drift to drive out the traverse pin with out marring the pin.
Load indicators - Powell's patent No.1055 of 1869 was for a firing pin retraction system. In most cases, the firing pins had white metal inlayed into the top surface that
noted "loaded," if a cartridge was in the chamber.
Originally Posted by campero
It must be a pleasure to hunt and shoot clays with it! Has cocking indicators, right?


Hammers will indicate being cocked, but the firing pins were originally gold inlaid showing “loaded” when the shells keep the firing pins pushed back in the receiver…



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Thanks! Beautiful firing pings engraves.

I thought that when the shotgun was closed with the cartridges in it, you could see that it was loaded because two indicators came out of the holes and were pushed by the nocks of the cartridges. Something similar to my german gun but with a different system.

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2 person limit of sage grouse. Darne V19 16 ga. Absolutely lovely day to be on the high prairie.

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I went for a walk in the woods today. I managed to chase up five Ruffed grouse and got one. It was a fine day walking with my vintage British shotgun through the autumn colours. Getting a Ruffed grouse was the cherry on top. smile
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TC
Originally Posted by Tim Cartmell
I went for a walk in the woods today. I managed to chase up five Ruffed grouse and got one. It was a fine day walking with my vintage British shotgun through the autumn colours. Getting a Ruffed grouse was the cherry on top. smile
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TC
Sounds like an enjoyable day, nice gun. Webley 702?
Originally Posted by Mr W martin
Originally Posted by Tim Cartmell
I went for a walk in the woods today. I managed to chase up five Ruffed grouse and got one. It was a fine day walking with my vintage British shotgun through the autumn colours. Getting a Ruffed grouse was the cherry on top. smile
________
TC
Sounds like an enjoyable day, nice gun. Webley 702?

Hello Mr W martin

Yes, it’s a model 702. The shotgun serial number makes the manufacture date to 1952. It has a proof date mark for 1953 with original 2 1/2 inch chambers, then reproofed in 1995 for 2 3/4 inch chambers. It’s a very fine British shotgun, still in high condition. Thanks.

________________
TC
Very nice example, glad you are using and enjoying it. Regards
Outstanding example of a 702. I have a 700 in about the same condition, great guns.
What are the differences between a 700 and a 702? That is an extremely nice gun indeed.
Originally Posted by BrentD, Prof
What are the differences between a 700 and a 702? That is an extremely nice gun indeed.

Hi Brent,

Essentially, fancier level of engraving with fuller coverage, fancier grade wood and drop points on the stock. See the link to Webley & Scott 1953 Catalogue posted above in my response to Mr W martin.

_________
TC
Originally Posted by Tim Cartmell
Originally Posted by BrentD, Prof
What are the differences between a 700 and a 702? That is an extremely nice gun indeed.

Hi Brent,

Essentially, fancier level of engraving with fuller coverage, fancier grade wood and drop points on the stock. See the link to Webley & Scott 1953 Catalogue posted above in my response to Mr W martin.

_________
TC

Thanks. Darn nice gun. It would be welcomed and honored in my house any day. Congrats on your acquisition/caretaking assignment.
Originally Posted by BrentD, Prof
Originally Posted by Tim Cartmell
Originally Posted by BrentD, Prof
What are the differences between a 700 and a 702? That is an extremely nice gun indeed.

Hi Brent,

Essentially, fancier level of engraving with fuller coverage, fancier grade wood and drop points on the stock. See the link to Webley & Scott 1953 Catalogue posted above in my response to Mr W martin.

_________
TC

Thanks. Darn nice gun. It would be welcomed and honored in my house any day. Congrats on your acquisition/caretaking assignment.
Not all 702 have panel and point.The next model, 701 has safe in gold and bolstered forend, more engraving coverage, gold oval and usually panel and point.
Tim, for some unknown reason your catalogue link won't open for me. Regards
Originally Posted by Mr W martin
Originally Posted by BrentD, Prof
[quote=Tim Cartmell][quote=BrentD, Prof]What are the differences between a 700 and a 702? That is an extremely nice gun indeed.

Not all 702 have panel and point.The next model, 701 has safe in gold and bolstered forend, more engraving coverage and usually panel and point.
Tim, for some unknown reason your catalogue link won't open for me. Regards

Mr W martin

That's strange. The weblink works for me. Regardless, you can find the catalogue for the model 700 series and my detailed 702 photos posted at 'The Webley & Scott Legacy' (by damascus) thread on this DoubleGun BBS, pg. 8.

__________
TC
Originally Posted by Tim Cartmell
Originally Posted by Mr W martin
Originally Posted by BrentD, Prof
[quote=Tim Cartmell][quote=BrentD, Prof]What are the differences between a 700 and a 702? That is an extremely nice gun indeed.

Not all 702 have panel and point.The next model, 701 has safe in gold and bolstered forend, more engraving coverage and usually panel and point.
Tim, for some unknown reason your catalogue link won't open for me. Regards

Mr W martin

That's strange. The weblink works for me. Regardless, you can find the catalogue for the model 700 series and my detailed 702 photos posted at 'The Webley & Scott Legacy' (by damascus) thread on this DoubleGun BBS, pg. 8.

__________
TC
👍
Webley 12 gauge 2 1/2 inch box lock with ejectors. I got this in a trade and was such a nice gun, I have kept it for years…



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Another older Webley…




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More ruffed grouse with vintage hammer guns…


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Beautiful shotguns, shrapnel!! smile
Crimson and Clover…



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Opening day for sharptails out west….rained out for most of the day, weather cleared this afternoon, and the evening walk was productive. I used a W.W. Greener F35 circa 1920 that I recently finished, a ground up restoration. The gun is actually a waterfowl gun, but….I couldn’t resist taking it out today.😀
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Brent,
Those items in the chambers that Ted thinks are snap caps appear to be some of the all plastic cases of the old Alcan shells. Are they?
Nice pictures DoubleTake, but what guns and where shot?
Originally Posted by Perry M. Kissam
Brent,
Those items in the chambers that Ted thinks are snap caps appear to be some of the all plastic cases of the old Alcan shells. Are they?

They are ACTIV hulls. They have a really large capacity, which helps a lot with blackpowder.

Ted was, as always, just fishing for something critical to say.
Having just returned from 4 days of hunting, I can post a few pictures. For reference, Gus turned 5200 days old on this trip. (I'm a bit older. )



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Brent,
Really love that last one of the dog!
Karl
Fabulous pictures!! Thanks for sharing them!! smile
Looks like a great trip Brent!
Originally Posted by Parabola
Nice pictures DoubleTake, but what guns and where shot?

They are FAIR/Rizzinis, 28 and 16 gauge with 30” barrels. Both performed really well on the prairie. I started out with a beautiful older Webley & Scott and couldn’t find the rhythm with it, so out came the slower swinging Rizzini guns. I shot a goodly amount of super-sporting and 5-stand last summer with the two, so no doubt that played into it. We were out in big sky country. ; )
A FAIR 16 bore SxS was reviewed in the Field 2 or 3 years ago, and got a very good write up.

I suspect that FAIR were the makers of my Italian made .410 Rottweil O&U.
FAIR (Fabrique Armas Isadoro Rizzini) built my Verona two gauge set, 28 and .410. It's absolutely a keeper. Love it.
Last spring, April, I got rid of 25 shotguns. However, I bought 28 and 16 ga. Iside doubles. Haven't shot the 16, but got the 28 in time for late quail season. Nice guns and a lot of value in a moderately priced, well-made Italian double. Gil
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Even the little guns are working well up here this year, including a 28 on a .410 frame.

But....things are changing quickly:

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First woodcock. First wild bird. On public property. Using guide's stackbarrel because the right barrel/lock on the SLE I flew up with went wonky and would not fire.

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Also, the Negrini travel case was more than adequate for standing up to baggage handler abuse. Followed the blocking procedure at the Negrini website.

https://negrinicases.com/negrini-gun-case-how-to-guides/packing-negrini-gun-case/
Two brace of pheasants with two Verney Carrons SXSs. 20 gauge true left hand gun on the left, 28 Gauge on the right. https://imgur.com/gallery/1nrLGS5
Darne V19 in 20 gauge, aging (10 years old) Setter, Ruffed grouse:


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The pooch is clearly interested in looking for a few more.



Best,
Ted
Dan S.W., congrats! Hope it's the first of many. I expect a few woodcock will soon be making their way to Georgia.
Originally Posted by playing hooky
Dan S.W., congrats! Hope it's the first of many. I expect a few woodcock will soon be making their way to Georgia.

Thanks! This was a grouse trip in upstate NY. I didn't get any shots at a ruffed grouse, but we at least saw a few at a distance. Now I really want to do the UP. And the woodcock were a ton of fun too. The 8 miles a day of hillclimbing was a bit rough though...I will see if I can jump some lowcountry woodcock in my parents retirement community outside of Savannah next. Ha.
Gus and I did another trip up north again. This is our third of the year, and just 2 days, but I had to go up to seed and mulch the banks of our new drive and culvert which took all summer to get approved. So, 2 days of grousing while we were "in the area".

This was the first grouse and a big one. But really strange coloration. Anyone that says there are only brown and grey grouse haven't seen many. This grey tailed/red ruff is a first for me.
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Same bird
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A relatively rare "normal" red/brown bird. It had a black ruff, like normal.
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Got another one of these also. The only one we saw. I've got to figure out how to cook them tonight. They sure pluck nicely.
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The scenery is never bad. Some trumpeter swans way in back too.
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Brent: we always called those "cinnamon birds" which, the best that I can tell, is a variation on a red phase bird. Pretty rare, I've seen only a handful over the years.
Originally Posted by Lloyd3
Brent: we always called those "cinnamon birds" which, the best that I can tell, is a variation on a red phase bird. Pretty rare, I've seen only a handful over the years.

Seems appropriate, but with the strongly grey tail, I think the color phases are a lot more complex than most realize. We get very few of the reds over where I'm at.
Brent,
Clearly an unusual mountable specimen, and one I've certainly never seen!
Karl
Grandson with the Daw and a rabbit. Another great day in the stubble…



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I went out into the forest yesterday but only managed to chase up a lone Spruce grouse rooster. It was still a good day hunting.

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TC
Very nice, Tim. Could we see some more of the H,B &P, including a right side view?
Originally Posted by Stanton Hillis
Very nice, Tim. Could we see some more of the H,B &P, including a right side view?

Right side view
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________
TC
I hunted with Valie Enslin of That's Africa Safaris after seeing his offer on Accurate Reloading. We hunted a game reserve totalling 367K acres bordering the Gonarezhou National park in Zim and the Save river to the North.

Crossing the Limpopo

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Last petrol before we headed in to camp.

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Camp was comfortable, the food was very good, the rooms had bathrooms and showers with hot and cold water, electricity was provided by generator.

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I saw plenty of wildlife, both species were were targeting and ones we were not.

A couple of bulls at a pan getting a mid-day drink.

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A very nice Kudo

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Nyala bull, the most beautiful of the antelope species to my eye.

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I was in awe of the size of my Eland bull, just huge. It is amazing how such a big animal can be so graceful.

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Nice sold bosses on my buff but not that wide. Might have to try for another on a future trip.

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I very much enjoyed my first African safari and will return again. Valie was an excellent PH, the Shangaan trackers were truly amazing. The food and accommodation were quite good.

It was HOT! By far the hottest I have ever experienced during a hunting trip. The bright side was that you can see farther during the dry season and the animals congregate around the pans. That said, I might try a cooler period next trip.

I will certainly return.

This trip was a bit of a business venture as well in that Valie wants to break into the American market, his current clientele is mostly European and South Africans. I will be marketing hunts for him in the future, in Mozambique, South Africa and possibly some additional locations.


12$ to Dave, just in case I sell a hunt.
Switched states for different grouse.

This has to be one of the most beautiful landscapes in America. But it is hard to capture in pixels
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Gus is always looking good.
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Not many of them out there, but we got ours.
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On Saturday, we heard sandhill cranes all day, one flock after the other but we rarely could spot them against the blue. Here is one of those flocks.
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I so much appreciate everyone sharing their trips and pictures here. Makes me want to know more. Steve - what was that rifle you used in Africa? Looks like the same one in all the pictures, but maybe you took more than one? Brent, I agree that's a beautiful landscape. What state were you in? Looks like cottonwoods growing in shortgrass prairie. Sounds like a lot of bird life around. What shotgun did you use? Keep the pictures and stories coming!
Originally Posted by earlyriser
I so much appreciate everyone sharing their trips and pictures here. Makes me want to know more. Steve - what was that rifle you used in Africa? Looks like the same one in all the pictures, but maybe you took more than one? Brent, I agree that's a beautiful landscape. What state were you in? Looks like cottonwoods growing in shortgrass prairie. Sounds like a lot of bird life around. What shotgun did you use? Keep the pictures and stories coming!

I was in Nebraska last weekend hunting sharptails and prairie chickens. They are very scarce this year. I saw 8 birds total. I used a Cashmore Paragon. A sweet, light, little boxlock.
Beautiful pictures, here's a start closer to home.....
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Squirrel, gravy and mashed potatoes. My favorite!! Yummmmm!!
More upland hunting in the mountain west…
(Pics taken over the last 3 days)

Morning views..
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Look closely….at the top of the tree….a sharptail perched on a branch….not something you see everyday on the high prairie
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Dog work…
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Results…

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Just returned from mid state to end the woodcock season. Saw this on the wall at the bird/deer camp cabin, funny I thought!
Karl
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Damn had a long message and lost it somewhere. I think I was on p6, but can't find it anywhere now.
Hal
Your last long message was

for waterfowl hunters. ND report.
My son and I hunted ducks at T M T Preserve in New York State.


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I imagine it's true for most of us, but I develop an emotional attachment to certain guns. It's not anthropomorphic since all the emotion is on my end. That being said, I'm growing very fond of this gun...

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Nice rifle, what calibers?

Is this a Superposed Express Rifle?

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...ncluded-make-offer-.cfm?gun_id=102482873
Originally Posted by skeettx
Nice rifle, what calibers?

Is this a Superposed Express Rifle?

Thanks for asking. Yes, it's an Express in .30-06. For four decades, I really wanted the Continental like you posted. I always planned to actually hunt with it, since I am mainly a bird hunter, but most of the ones that hit the market were investment guns. I would lose 30% of the value by just taking them in the field. I'm too practical for that. Besides, I have had a 20 gauge bird gun since 1990, a Browning BSS Sporter with IC/M barrels so the 20 gauge barrels for the Continental were really redundant. I found that Express for sale in April of 2020 just like you see it with Leupold 1.5x-5x scope and swivel studs. I know nothing of its history but whoever owned it, best I can tell, never shot it. The Browning rust preventative put on at the factory had hardened and was extremely difficult to remove. I've killed 8 deer with it and four African animals. Its got a quirk, though, that's a little embarrassing. It shoots the Over barrel 4" higher than the Under barrel...I don't like it but I solve it by shooting a 180 grain in the over barrel and a 150 in the under. The bullets will almost touch at 100 yards. I use Federal Premium 150s with their nickle-plated cases and Nosler brass for the 180s so it's easy to keep the bullets in the right place. As long as I feed it properly, it's deadly accurate with both barrels.

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Rubberhead,
When you bought your rifle, did it come with a test target (more than likely a drawing of a heart) with a test group? If so, it should have listed somewhere on the target the make and bullet weight of the ammo used. European ammo is often loaded to different ballistics than American ammo. In my experience, European guns are often regulated with heavy for caliber bullets. You may find it worth your while to find out what ammo was used and duplicate those ballistics with your handloads. If the barrels shoot together with a duplicate of the European ammo over open sights, but not with a scope, you may need to have it reregulated with ammo of your choice. Of course, if the solution you have worked out is satisfactory to you, reregulation may not be worth the cost to you. There is a pretty good chance that you were able to buy the gun because the previous owner was unable to find a load that would shoot both barrels together, with a scope mounted.
Mike
Originally Posted by Der Ami
Rubberhead,
When you bought your rifle, did it come with a test target (more than likely a drawing of a heart) with a test group? If so, it should have listed somewhere on the target the make and bullet weight of the ammo used. European ammo is often loaded to different ballistics than American ammo. In my experience, European guns are often regulated with heavy for caliber bullets. You may find it worth your while to find out what ammo was used and duplicate those ballistics with your handloads. If the barrels shoot together with a duplicate of the European ammo over open sights, but not with a scope, you may need to have it reregulated with ammo of your choice. Of course, if the solution you have worked out is satisfactory to you, reregulation may not be worth the cost to you. There is a pretty good chance that you were able to buy the gun because the previous owner was unable to find a load that would shoot both barrels together, with a scope mounted.
Mike

Good question. The short answer is no, I got the gun just as you see without the sling and it in a cardboard box. These guns came from the factory with a leather and canvas case but I didn't get that either.

Here's my working theory based on just a few data points...and the few data points I have are this...every similar gun I know of shoots the over barrel 3" to 4" higher than the under barrel. My theory is that Browning regulated them with the gun in a vise. You see, according to Heym, the recoil of a gun begins to take effect before the bullet leaves the barrel. So, the line-of-sight of a right barrel on a SxS rifle is low and to the left. The recoil from a round fired from the right barrel will pull the gun up and to the right thereby canceling the regulated low-and-left built into that barrel gun when held by a human. The mirror image of that is true for the left barrel. When fired the X shaped pattern will cause the bullets to print in the Center of that X when regulated to whatever distance.

An over-under is very different because the recoil from the Under barrel causes significantly less muzzle jump than the Over barrel and is directed more straight back than the recoil of the Over barrel. This causes the Over barrel to naturally print higher than the Under barrel when the gun is held by a human. But, if you lock it in a vise so the recoil doesn't impact where the bullet prints. So, my theory is that the relative inexperience of Browning with the making of double rifles caused them to think that a gun regulated by very precise bore sighting or shooting it from a vise would reflect real world conditions when, in fact, it does not.
I have heard that the Valmet O/U rifles have a good reputation for accuracy.
I have a Baikal IZH-94 Express Rifle in 30-06 and have worked up a load that converges
at 50 yards, I have a Weaver K-3 on the rifle.

Mike
Not a trophy by any stretch, but some good meat and fun time with my son. It fell dead in its tracks with my Model 70 .308

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Rubberhead
The information from Heym is basically correct in general but unstated factors cause variations also. Most of my experience also comes from Heym, both directly and indirectly. During most of the 1970s I lived in Germany and had them make extra barrels for my Heym O/U combination gun (double shot barrels, 60cm long) at the factory. Later I had a local gunsmith that had been "Meister" in the hunting weapons division make a set of rifle barrels for the same gun. Most of the people that worked " side jobs" on guns either worked or had previously during the day at Heym. Since a Heym blank set of barrels was used, the barrels are for practical purposes from Heym. The barrels were regulated for the 293 gr TUG bullet and shot a little over an inch group at 100m. I had them mount a scope in claw mounts and instead of good groups, it shot patterns. I took it back for re-regulation, but it was stolen from my friends shop before it was finished. The replacement was regulated with scope mounted. Before final finishing, I took it to the Rod & Gun Club range to test it myself at 100 meters. I fired an "under" and "over" as quickly as I could get back on target. The two bullet holes were touching, so I took it back for final finishing. Mounting a scope can change the POI, different bullet weights can also change it, and waiting too long between shots, for sure will change it. These changes can happen while what you learned from Heym still remains true.
Mike
Thanks Mike. I understand that the line of sight through the scope is higher than it was with the iron sights. I measured the under barrel at 2.2" below the line of sight. If I could blink my eyes and make the barrels converge with the scope perfectly at 100" with identical loads, I'd do it. If I have spend money and risk what I have now...no way.

Right now I can put an O/U pair within an inch of the bull's eye at 100" and less than 1/2" from each other, from a rest using life jackets and soft gun cases through a 5x scope and some really big floaters in my old eyes. Here's my target from Africa...

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I shot the top of my zebra's heart off at 100 yards with the Over barrel, and similary with an Impala Ram at 100 yards with the Under barrel. Here's the Impala, I didn't have the foresight to take a picture of the zebra's heart but it looked identical, only a lot bigger...

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I shot the heart out of a whitetail at 175 yards at the end of last season using that same 5x scope. It's got another quirk I haven't mentioned...it throws the first shot from the under barrel after it's been cleaned...

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That flyer was U1. The other three were O1, U2 and O2. So, I've learned that I give the gun a thorough cleaning then make sure to put a bullet downrange through the Under barrel before the season.

It's got quirks but I've learned to live with them.
When it shoots where you want it to, you can't ask for any more. I understand about floaters, I'm always "batting" at what I think are mosquitoes.
Mike
After the pheasant opener last weekend, Gus and I went north to talk to a contractor and then grouse hunt. As always, we had a great time.

Gus turned 100 yrs old today, if you believe in the 7 dog years = 1 human year. If so, he still acts younger than me. If I don't lace up my boots fast enough, he gets pissed off and starts barking at me to hurry. Hard to ask for more.

A few pics of birds with the Kimbal/Skimin & Wood and a Cashmore Paragon. After never having even heard of a cinnamon grouse, I've now shot 2 of them this year and a friend shot a third. Beautiful, big birds, but the Spruce grouse are the most striking of all. Did anyone here contribute to the Minnesota DNR study on spruce grouse a few years ago? The results are now out in various forms.


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Ran into these guys clogging up the road (I didn't mind at all - it was fun to watch). They hooked up about 12 dogs and pulled off in their F250 flatbed with duals in the back. The dogs were louder than Hell, and having a ton of fun. Gus wanted to jump in and give it a try (or so he said).
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I love being next to the water. This place never looks the same twice.
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Originally Posted by Der Ami
When it shoots where you want it to, you can't ask for any more. I understand about floaters, I'm always "batting" at what I think are mosquitoes.
Mike

Yep. And, when I scan the horizon for deer in the woods, I have to let the floaters settle before I decided if I saw something or not...it's 2023...there's got to be a easy cure for these pesky things...haha
A decent South Dakota Muley this year. No bird hunting this trip unfortunately, Lucy is retired and Tucker injured a paw right before the trip. Great friends and the weather was beautiful. I love the high prairie in the fall.

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A guy has to be pretty desperate for some wingshooting to spend time trying to walk up doves in a cutover. I saw a good many flying around it the week before, but only jumped one bunch of 5 when I went back last weekend once the season came back in. I got a double, and managed to find them both after a long search, then spent another couple of hours trying to find more, with no success. It beat deer hunting anyway.

We've had several good dove hunts this fall where I managed to get limits, but the end of the hunt is always a busy time and I never take pictures. So I wanted to contribute something to this great thread that I enjoy reading every year. smile

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I agree with coosa, great thread!

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Talk about diversity(!). It never ceases to amaze me about how different these two worlds really are.

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An overgrown apple orchard (an old grouse covert of mine) last month, near to Bradford, Pennsylvania.

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Craig, Colorado. Notice the "Welcome Hunters" sign above the little car at the laundromat. I was at the gunshop next door picking up an item and dropping-off my hunt survey info (a common "Ranching for Wildlife" requirement here). I suspect that this ends our regularly scheduled programming for the 2023 season (at least for me).
It is firmly "my favorite" to have gotten both of the kids to their first deer. The positivity and magnitude of the experiences we have shared this fall have been without bounds.
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GREAT pictures
Thank you
Mike
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Campero,
I always enjoy your posts. I had to use Google translate to understand the text. I wholeheartedly agree with your message!

Larry
Thanks for your words, Larry! Pleased to share common ideas.
Annual quail hunt in Moultrie GA. I shot a Parker GH 20. My son shot my VH 28. Sherwood did very well as usual too. He was excited to be back on birds

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My son got his first deer over Thanksgiving. He is ready to get some more too. He used my pre 64 Winchester Model 70 .308


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Well done, well done, and great tradition smile
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The gun used for this hunt is a 12 bore Holloway & Co. heavy Fowler. 30” full choked barrels. Original 2 3/4” chambers, 1 1/4 Oz proofed. It patterns both barrels at 83% at 40 yrds using 1 1/8 Oz bismuth #5’s at a comfy 1200 fps.

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Love those Doc Calls, Dustin. I used mine to good effect last week.
Brad,
They’re my most used and my #1 most favorite calls. I doubt anyone here knows what a “Doc call” is. I’ve got all sorts of calls, some much more expensive than these were… I always seem to go back to my Docs. I’m going on 20+ years with these two.

Dustin
Very nice. If you load your own Bi, what is your recipe, if you don't mind sharing. I use 1 1/4 oz of Bi #5 for ducks and pheasants, launched out of Winchester AA hulls and wads with 26.7 gr of Longshot.
Originally Posted by BrentD, Prof
Very nice. If you load your own Bi, what is your recipe, if you don't mind sharing. I use 1 1/4 oz of Bi #5 for ducks and pheasants, launched out of Winchester AA hulls and wads with 26.7 gr of Longshot.

I have a couple of loads that I use. The load I took these ducks with is as follows:

Fed Gold Medal hull
Ched. 209
21.6 grns Win. Super Handicap
WAA12 wad
1 1/8 Oz.
1200 fps @ 6900 psi
Congrats to the young fella, but I'm sure glad my Dad didn't smear deer blood all over my face when I killed my first deer. The tradition in my family was, if you missed a deer or lost one by wounding it, you would get your shirt-tail cut off. I still feel bad about the one deer I hit and knocked down, but lost while trailing it due to wind driven snow quickly covering the tracks and blood trail. I was hunting alone, so kept my hunting shirt tail intact.

Originally Posted by skeettx
Well done, well done, and great tradition smile

Unfortunately, not so great a tradition these days due to Lyme disease and other blood-borne pathogens that can be in deer blood. For many years, I hog-dressed my deer bare-handed, and just washed my hands with snow or in a nearby creek, before rolling my sleeves down and putting my hunting coat back on. Now I carry a couple pair of disposable nitrile gloves to do the chore, and try not to puncture them with a bone fragment. Lot's of sources agree:

https://www.letsgohunting.org/resou...hy-wear-gloves-when-field-dressing-game/
Originally Posted by LeFusil
Originally Posted by BrentD, Prof
Very nice. If you load your own Bi, what is your recipe, if you don't mind sharing. I use 1 1/4 oz of Bi #5 for ducks and pheasants, launched out of Winchester AA hulls and wads with 26.7 gr of Longshot.

I have a couple of loads that I use. The load I took these ducks with is as follows:

Fed Gold Medal hull
Ched. 209
21.6 grns Win. Super Handicap
WAA12 wad
1 1/8 Oz.
1200 fps @ 6900 psi

I've sued WSH, but not much and not for Bi. Good to hear though. That looks like a perfect load with that pressure and velocity.
Originally Posted by BrentD, Prof
...I've sued WSH...

I am not a lawyer, but I am probably dyslexic and arguably the world's worst typist. Made me chuckle.
Originally Posted by Fudd
Originally Posted by BrentD, Prof
...I've sued WSH...

I am not a lawyer, but I am probably dyslexic and arguably the world's worst typist. Made me chuckle.
Ah yes. I wonder if I typed that or if the spell check took a typo sideways. Between my fingers and spell check, it's hard to predict what will come out. If I'm using the phone or not using my glasses, it only gets worse.
Yes brentD like bruen bruin
Some of the vets here might be a little shocked about my next question…there is a little bit of “history” between us, but I’ve noticed that “GJW” hasn’t posted very much on this thread that he is known to start every year. Last year he posted a bunch of sharptail & duck hunting hunting pics, one with his daughter that I thought was pretty cool. Has anyone heard from him lately? Is he ok? Anyone heard from him??

Dustin
I'm concerned that something may have happened to Greg. It is very uncharacteristic for him to start this thread and not check back in. It's worrisome to me too, Dustin.
He posted as recently as 11/25 on Upland Journal.
Last day of 2nd annual dove season here in Kentucky, first collard dove here for myself.
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Jtplumb,
Beautiful gun! I love great wood.
Karl
Had a great hunt in SD back in Oct/Nov. My impression is that there were more birds this year than last year. We probably saw an average of 30 wild birds per day. As is often the case, very few offered a shot and it seemed like 2/3 were hens. The hunting party consisted of 2 men (one 80) and 2 dogs (one 14) and we shot 2-4 birds on average per day. But just having the opportunity to enjoy the Great Plains for a week was fantastic. God’s creation is truly amazing. Our farmer friends of 35 years have 10k acres and we are the only bird hunters.

One highlight. One day at sunset, we hunted a 10 acre cattail slough with a 1/4 acre pond in the middle beside a road. I dropped my FIL off at one end to guard one corner and drove to the other end, put the dogs down and worked toward him. At least 40 birds exited out of shot between us as we executed a clumsy pinch maneuver. As I reached the pond 200 ducks got up in 3 waves. That cacophony startled almost all of the remaining pheasants out of the cattails. We finished the hunt with 2 “sleeper” roosters that tried an ill advised “hunker down” technique. That mental picture of ducks getting up and peasants flushing simultaneously was truly memorable.

T. Boss 11 bore. Putting birds in the bag since August, 1851.

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Lucy working hard at 14. She hunted this rooster in a grass field for 30 minutes before it flushed.

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The slough at sunset.

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Great pics and narrative, Owen.
Lucky days with my little lady and my four-legged companion and hares. ¡One shot, one chance & 28ga!

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Hey all, I've been away from the board for board for sometime.

I couldn't post pictures from my phone. Keith did send me instructions telling me how, but to be honest, I was a bit lazy in posting. Thanks Keith for your help BTW.

Anyway, we've had a good season. Nice weather and a good population of birds. Only two weeks left.

If anyone is interested, you can see the pictures of this season in the below link. I'm gjw on that board.

Best Regards to all

Greg

https://forum.ultimatepheasanthunting.com/threads/2023-season-pictures-of-birds-guns-and-dogs.26378/

And

https://forum.ultimatepheasanthunting.com/threads/grouse-and-hun-opener-2023.26289/
Greg,

We have missed you!

I will tell the guys at F.A. Anderson that the gun they made for you still works well.

Merry Christmas and a Happy, Healthy and Prosperous 2024,

Parabola
Thanks so much for the kind words!

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and yours also!
My son and I just shot a few ducks here in the Lowcountry. We both shot 10 gauges with Salt Creek 10 gauge Bismuth. Harry shot a Parker NH and I shot an Ithaca NID Mag 10. We each got our limit, even if it is just two.

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Neat, I shoot a non-mag NID and a Syracuse Smith 10
Here are some ducks from last week. A good many around this year.

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Edit: A week later

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Finishing 2023 on divers
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Day after Christmas. Middle son and daughter in law. I am the old fellow, on the right side. Guns, Ruger 20, Ithaca 37-20 bore and mine is AYA 28 ga. These birds are released birds, hence the smaller gauge choices. Shooting reserve does not encourage .410 shooting, I am sad to say. So I went bigger for the day. Not in the picture, is my black lab who decided to find a hiding hen about ten yards behind the I-phone taking the photo. Like me, she would rather do anything rather than take a picture. It, the hen, got added to the bag. Ended up with 15 pheasant and two residual quail. Not wild birds, but fun none the less.

Owner told me that they had a tower shoot a couple weeks earlier and those shooters were unable to hit anything. Something like 57 for 185 birds. Corporate shoot for employees and customers. None wanted to do walk up shoots afterwards. So the next day one group ended up with 53 birds across six shooters in one large field. They paid the standard residual bird rate and had one heck of a shoot. Kind of wish I was there, with my .410, but they frown on most .410 use. I guess if I had to watch bad shooting, I'd want better odds, with twice as much shot.
It's always great to finish up the season and year with a satisfying hunt! Best wishes to all for a Happy New year!
Karl
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Shot a mixed bag today with a Fox.

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Originally Posted by C;apperZapper
Shot a mixed bag today with a Fox.

Nice pics, CZ, and with a high condition Savage Model B Fox. I love the A H Fox guns the best, but am in the process of refurbishing a nice Model B like yours. Good and tough double for little $$$.
Last day
Mixed bag
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Originally Posted by ROMAC
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Mercy. Did it end up flushing straight into your chest??
I was about 20 feet away. It flew out to my left and I made a nice shot with a 7/8ths load of RST 8’s. Everything went the way it was supposed to.
Well done, sir, and bon apétit!
A picture AND a successful shot?

You are good! Very good.

I'd love to shot some pics from today's Grouse Closer, but Gus had a medical emergency, so we blew straight home 400 miles. He seems little better now.
Hope Gus will be fully recovered soon.
Hope your first blessing of the New Year is Gus’s full recovery.
Originally Posted by FallCreekFan
Hope your first blessing of the New Year is Gus’s full recovery.

He is substantially better, so far, so good. Got a long ways to go, yet. We are happy for every increment of improvement.
Hope Gus is better soon
Visited an old friend in Minnesota for deer hunting. Also had a day out for pheasants (it's a borrowed shotgun, so please forgive the barrel orientation.)

Deer with the Watson 360EX double
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Pheasants
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Hey all, well, this weekend is the end of the our season here in North Dakota. It was a good year, not fantastic, but good. Plenty of birds, and the weather was great! Not a lot of snow, warm for the most part. The big downside was the ice storm we got the day after Christmas. That made things tough. Hard to get around, had to watch every step you took or else you'll be on your arse (like me a couple times!.

The season for us started out with a bang and ended in a whimper. Went out yesterday and today and didn't bust a cap! The last couple weeks the birds have been exceptionally wild (pheasants that is) . Hens would hold, but the boy birds flushed well ver 50 yards away. We did get more Huns this year than the last couple years. Grouse were so so and pheasants were darn good.

The dogs did well, no injuries or issues with them. Addie is turning into a first class bird dog. Very happy with her. And Raina, the old hand did very well also. For a 10 year old dog, you would think she was 5 out in the field

As I said, a good year. No one got hurt, not problems with vehicles and had a wonderful time with my son Jim and my daughter Patty. My two best hunting partners.

Hope the weather holds and the spring is good for nesting. If it does, next season will be great.

Thanks to the good Lord and St Hubert for the blessings you showered on us!

Best Regards to all!

Greg
Greg,
Glad your season went well, as did mine. I'm thankful for every season and opportunity to go afield! I'm already looking forward to next years season and thoughtful thread of yours!
Until next year,
Karl
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Originally Posted by Karl Graebner
Greg,
Glad your season went well, as did mine. I'm thankful for every season and opportunity to go afield! I'm already looking forward to next years season and thoughtful thread of yours!
Until next year,
Karl
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Thanks Karl and back at you!

Stay well my friend

Greg
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Late entry for this year.

Finally got out on the Sussex Downs this morning and harvested this Fallow pricket with my left handed Ruger 77 Mark II in .30-06.

Sorry it wasn’t taken with a double.

The ammo pouch is a First World War British Officer’s pouch for revolver ammunition. I have trimmed the plastic inner from a Norma ammo box to fit. It now carries 20 rounds varying from .243 to 9.5 Mannlicher Schoenauer silently and securely.
Parabola,
Game taken is game taken, It's just great to get out! Nice photo.
Karl
👍 Good looking Vizsla & very nice buck CJF !

Here’s Eva looking non plussed…..

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Best Regards,
JBP
My son was home from boarding school this past weekend, so naturally we went hunting. Youth day for ducks was not too productive, other than seeing a bunch. Quail hunting was a lot more successful. Sherwood did an excellent job pointing and holding. I got a double. Brays Island threw in two pheasants with the quail so we were surprised twice by the big birds.

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Mills,
Looks like a fine day afield, comfortably done in short sleeves as well!
Karl
My son and I hunted pheasants at T M T Hunting preserve in Staatsburg, NY, this past weekend. He shot a Fox early A grade and I shot a Parker GHE, both 12 gauges.


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GREAT, well done
Thank you for sharing
Another quail hunt, probably the last of the season, but on a great property in SC. Old growth longleaf and even saw some red cockaded woodpeckers. Enjoyed time with some great old and new friends too.

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Does this count?

Imagine my surprise when I found a pair of these in my traps yesterday AM!

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https://insider.si.edu/2011/10/new-...-virginia-and-hybridization-with-wolves/
Originally Posted by Marks_21
Does this count?

Imagine my surprise when I found a pair of these in my traps yesterday AM!

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Did you release them or what did you do with them?
I release the foxes and the bobcats- the coyotes receive no mercy. I am not really a trapper, I just a set a few traps on my property, hence the surprise when I am successful! I have never before had two in the same day.
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