I am thinking of going over to the dark side and trying an over/under. Would a Beretta Silver Pigeon III be a good place to start? Thanks.

Why not? Do you plan to buy new? Otherwise I would be tempted to get a secondhand Nikko or Miroku.

People seem to be either "Beretta people" or "Browning/Miroku people" - different feel.

HB

Pleased with my B. Rizzini Premier Sporter, which I bought second hand but little used, and with my SKB 500 which might be 10th hand but is still sound with good bores and cost me virtually nothing at Southams timed sale.

I have a 686 Silver Pigeon two barrel set. I learned to shoot trap with it. Great gun!!

Citori is a nice gun, too.

I do like the Beretta "feel" better than the Browning. No preference on new or used.

what jimmy said...

citori is good intro gun...

not as pricey as baretta...

easier to sell used, should you decide to return to the fold...

go forth my son an sin...

when you are done wid yo evil ways, come back to us an do penance...

If the gun fits an Ithaca/SKB is a good and usually economical choice. Some don't care for the inertial trigger.

I have owned 3 citoris, a cynergy, and a 686 silver pigeon. All good guns that should set you back about $1000 used if you buy opportunistically. The 686 was a 90's model but was perfectly adequate. If you want a little more soul, maybe try a superposed?

Browning has a 50th Anniversary Edition Citori High Grade- $8400.00 on the Browning site.

I'm strong on Beretta. My 20 ga. 687 SP II Sporting may just be the perfect dove gun. Used exclusively twice, for eight shoots each time, in Argentina. Never once has it failed me in any way. I love my S X Ss, but that O/U will never leave my stable as long as I'm alive.

I bought my 686 Silver Pigeon back around the year 2000 for about $1400.00 at Jaqua's in Findley, Ohio. It was just before the Grand American in Vandalia and they offered a $500.00 voucher for a set of O/U barrels that Beretta would fit onto the gun at The Grand American a few weeks later. I was just starting out trap shooting at the time, so I bought the whole deal. Although the O/U barrels were for doubles trap, I learned to use them to shoot skeet by lining up the beads, while sliding the gun up in my shoulder like Tom Knapp did shooting his guns and it made a great trap/skeet combo. For some reason, no one thought that I would be able to shoot skeet with that gun, but they soon learned differently, while trying to figure out my methods..........That was also the gun that the Beretta representative at the Grand, taught me how I should close their gun, while he was explaining how the gun worked. He said when I closed the gun, I should always hold the lever over, close the gun up and then release the lever, locking the gun shut. Browning always told me the same thing with my BT-99. This used to cause great discussions on here and the topic of how to close a gun was always interesting. I have always continued to close my guns in that manner over the years with no problems.

Congratulations, Jimmy. That's a fine story.
JR

Giacomo told me the same thing for a Perazzi, hold the top lever to the right until the action is closed, then let go; I guess the theory is to save on locking bolt wear. English gunmakers say just close the action, esp with self openers believing the locking bolt needs to fully engage in the bite. After all the conflicting info, I’m still not sure which way is best, but I’ve abandoned holding the lever and just gently close the action.

I have heard that from Giacomo also. It’s so drummed jnto my head that whenever I see someone simply snap a gun shut it makes me cringe.

I have a 682 that I have shot for 40 years, and it is almost broken in. I replaced the locking pins once but probably didn't have to. I have a rack full of Browning Superposed, but the 682 is easier to restock and replace barrels on, so the 682 is what I would recommend. The old Brownings have more character, but character doesn't break birds.

Just because John Wayne did it in a lot of Westerns . . .

I’m curious as to what you are thinking makes a “beginners” O/U? Are you thinking low cost? Single trigger? Pistol grip? Something else?

While prices have come up over the last few years, the older Beretta Silver Snipes that were imported to the US in the 50s and 60s might be a good place to start. The were a base S55 model Beretta, gussied up for the US market, with things the importer thought would make them sell here. The trigger is usually non selective, they usually have a ventilated rib, and are either 12 or 20 gauge. There are exceptions. Prices for 12s hover between $500 to $1K.My dad’s copy has been in my custody since 2009, and we used it a lot prior to that. He bought it with a
re-enlistment bonus in 1964. It did break a firing pin in the lower barrel about 1970, Ahlman’s had them on the shelf, and fixed it in about 20 minutes, and sold us a spare that I still have. Mine really only sees use for late season pheasants, when the cold forces me to a single trigger gun. But, I try to use it every year for that, and there are many memories with that old gun.

They have always been a bit “under the radar” compared to more popular versions of O/U guns, but, have been a sound buy since they were introduced.

Good luck in your quest.

Best,
Ted

This very question was aired on The Shooting Channel on Youtube:

May help in decision making. I have a Berretta 687EELL in 20 bore with, unusually, a straight hand grip weighing in at just 1/2 ounce over 6 pounds. Delightful little game gun. I don't know if they can be obtained over your way but the French made Chapuis guns are excellent. I have one in 12 bore. Lagopus.....

An older Beretta BL4 or BL5 might be a good choice. I hunt with a 20 gauge 28" BL4. It handles nice, Brownings always feel a bit clunky. Nicest feel is the Perazzi MX line. Beretta close

Maybe "beginner" wasn't the right word. How about "first" over/under. I grew up using singles, pumps and autos. Got the sxs bug in my late 20's and never looked back. All of my shooting is done with a sxs except coastal duck hunting. For some odd reason I now have the itch for an over/under. I decided to limit myself to no more than $4,000 in cost. This should keep me put of trouble with the wife. My youngest son is pushing the Beretta Silver Pigeon III. He thinks I will hate an over/under and will give it to him.

I'd u had to buy an o/u I think I'd choose a Merkel.

You deserve to have one.
JR

SS, you've mentioned nothing about its intended use. 12 ga. or small ga.? Clays? An upland piece where weight is a big factor? Lots to consider before asking recommendations...

I'm sure you intend some sort of your usual nastiness, but you will have to try harder, 'cuz I just don't care.

Good. I don't either.
JR

Then why bother, except to verify that you love being an a$$hole?

I just like to aggravate liberal Democrats like you. Seems to be working.
JR

Thanks for making my point. BTW, I'm not a Democrat. Keep trying.

Stan;

Why did you not tell them about the real beginner's O/U that you and I both know about that is probably the best value in the world (and in different gauges)

https://www.academy.com/p/yildiz-legacy-hp-410-bore-28-in-ou-shotgun

https://www.academy.com/p/yildiz-legacy-hp-20-gauge-28-in-ou-shotgun

OK. Make America Great Again. Trump 2024! Right?
JR

My apologies for taking this good thread off topic, guys. Back to the original topic...
JR

Apology accepted. Thank you.

Now that the Kindergarten spat is over I will move my comment about the beginners O/U down beyond it.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...ond-double-triggers.cfm?gun_id=102353033

This Beretta S685E is a bargain......

Since you are not a youth, likely to out grow a gun, or likely to lose interest in shooting, pick as nice a gun as your budget will allow. Don’t go cheap or buy anything odd because resale later might be difficult and nobody needs more guns in their racks that aren’t shot because we regret buying them in the first place. Perhaps you should list your qualities you want in your gun. Gauge, barrel length, choke tubes or fixed chokes, adjustable stock or not, target weight or lighter field weight. Most modern guns will handle thousands of rounds before any maintenance should be required. I have two O/U which have both shot 250,000 targets, one with zero parts replaced and one with one minor part replaced. So durability is something I value in a gun.

I just decided my next two gun purchases will be for such narrow defined needs. Once I listed what exactly I wanted as features almost all guns but a few were eliminated. Then the true hunt begins which I find most satisfying in itself. Sometimes you have to look at buying guns which are undervalued where they are being sold but not so much here. I bought a Remington Sporting Clay 1100 from Holts, paid to import it, for less than half what I could buy one for state side. Point is, if you decide what you want don’t limit yourself to just a few auctions sites. In fact take a good look at auction sites like Holts because they often have models which we don’t often see here.

Hi kids,are there any 12ga overunders out there for 1000.00 that are worth while new or used with choke tubes thanks mc

$4K budget doesn’t really imply beginner, or, even first gun. Not to me, anyway.

You will find some very nice guys in that price range.

Good luck.

Best,
Ted

Uh oh, Ted. Need to fix this...
JR

OK.

Guns. Guns, in that price range.

Best,
Ted

_____________________________________________________________________
I suppose some idiot will start yammering about hockey now.

I'm pretty sure this rule breaking personal attack post from the Nutty Professor will prompt the Preacher to howl about him not posting under his full name, and will also have Gladys Kravitz complaining about "bad manners"...

.... or not!

I love it when he does the same things he cries about. What a phony.

In an earlier post, I mentioned that I shoot a 40 some year old 682 that has been shot tens of thousands of trouble free rounds. I forgot the The Lovely Linda shoots a small frame 686 20 gauge with added 28 gauge barrels. I don't shoot that gun very much, but it would be my choice for an all around gun for both beginners and kids. It is a six pound wonder gun. Linda's late husband bought that gun for probably about $450 from the closeout rack at the Beretta club in Maryland in the mid eighties. All of my Berettas came from the same source at bargain prices.

This looks like a fine "beginner" set-up!

https://www.trapshooters.com/thread...ng-model-687-12-gauge-32-barrels.938751/

You were not included. But then you knew that. Now don't go away mad, just go away...
JR

You continue to confirm you are just trolling. You probably should try and mend your ways. It is a bad look for you.

But you knew that.

That got right by me, Ted. HA-HA!!

Yes, it’s the most effective way to get mullets to take bait. Nah, I’m not worried about my look. I’ll let you do that.
JR

Joel Etchen offers nice 20/28 SP III sets with EELL wood for a bit over your budget that you might consider.

Just asking...
JR

Sorry I missed your original question. Well I want a 20 gauge, 3" chamber, steel shot compatible, pistol grip, single selective trigger, choke tubes, unsure on barrel length (28" or 30"). This gun will be used mostly for upland work, however I'm sure it will hit the clays course on occasion. This is the antithesis of everything I own. I guess that is the whole point.

Easy. As I insinuated earlier ..... Beretta 687 SP II Sporting. It has a field style stock and forend, a bullet proof single trigger, and great handling. There's more, but I digress.

So, best ting to do is to jot down a few of the guns that are mentioned and if you see one at your club, ask if you can shoot it and get the owner's opinion. Good luck.