popular wisdom says william evans brand guns were made by others...

their box locks look like webley & scott made guns...

their side locks look like?

any opinions?

Most first name makers brought in box locks from Birmingham trade, and many second lever makers did as well. The most obvious is when they are engraved "shot and regulated" by H&H, but I doubt any of the top five or six makers would bother to make a box lock when they were so easy to bring in either in the white of completely finished. That allowed them to concentrate on side plate guns. Who needs to be master of all things? And even then box locks were not sold as their best quality but rather third or fourth level to meet the request of their clients for a gun for a nephew or game keeper. They still wanted the name to impress but did not want to spend a lot.

But we assume side plate gun and box locks could not both be made to the highest standards. They could and some box locks clearly were but the box lock was so much easier and cheaper to make and stock, it flooded the market on the low price end. We had the Crescent side plate but I have not seen the British equivalent. High grade box locks tend to be rare, like one out of 50, or 100 box locks were top grade, finished to the highest level.

My pair of Evans sidelocks are Webley screw grips, stocked to the fences, beautifully engraved, cased together, and stocked full crossover. I have no idea what a top quality Evans would look like, but I suspect mine are pretty near the top. No letter available, so how would I tell?

eight, ah recall reading that others licensed and used the w & s screw grip....h&h maybe?

found this here:

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=269465

it is so wonderful that so many here are willing to share their knowledge...here...

It is not "popular wisdom" it is a fact that their guns were made by others.

And eightbore confirmed that Scott made some of them if not all.

I don't know how much has to be made to qualify as "made by", but after looking at all the 2" Skimin and Wood guns that have someone else's name on them, It is a wonder that anyone made complete guns.

I had an Evans hammer gun, regardless of who made it, it was a damn fine gun. Nicer than the Scott hammer gun I owned at the same time, albeit they were very different guns.

Made by means you build the gun greener made guns but sold barreled actions brazier made barreled actions and complete guns or just locks and actions. a lot of guns sold by iron mongers retail gun dealers etc.never built any part of the gun just ordered it sometimes with extra finish .your evens Scott comparison would be valid if both were the same model and finish I have never seen a Scott that wasn't messed with not be finished to high standard.i have a Scott 1881 that the locks inside are as nice as any gun I have worked on its the same model Holland's sold as the climax.guns were made to a price .

I had a very fancy Evans boxlock, also a screw grip. A photo in the Webley & Scott book looked like it could have been taken of my gun. It was an Anson & Webley 51, the most expensive boxlock they made at the time.

I was at Cyril Adams home 20 years ago and witnessed him value a magnificent matched pair of circa 1914 20 bore best quality William Evans sidelock ejectors with 28 inch barrels and long lop stocks (original). He valued them at $40,000.00 +.
They were of course made by Webley & Scott. Likely the only pair in existence.

A good gun is a good gun. Your money will go farther buying the gun and not the name!

Mark;

I noticed that I neglected to write that the pair of 20 bore best quality sidelock ejectors that were made by Webley & Scott were William Evans "named" guns. I went back and edited my post to correct this.

mark, beg to differ...

examples being parkers an purdeys...

both bring bigger bucks than similar quality guns, because of name...

Gee edd both parker and purdey are names ,you will pay a premium on names.buy quality gun not high status name.you can buy a Scott branded gun for less then a Holland's branded gun of the same type sold by each company .i know you trying to develop interest in a evens your hawking.

The renown British gun author, gun historian and general authority on British guns, Douglas Tate has been quoted numerous times stating that "you buy the gun, not the name". However, it takes knowledge and experience to be able to know the difference, and the number that do are few, very few. A.A. Brown can and has built guns equal or better to a Purdey, and how many have even any knowledge of this gunmaking firm and its owner Robin Brown, much less be able to describe the difference of the form of a single bar action versus a double bar action.

My favorite gun company's are J Wilkes ,and aa brown,both have made guns for the big named gun company's there own named guns are beautiful.

In order to buy the gun, not the name, you must have some basic knowledge of gun actions and the engineering behind them. Most people do not and moreover, are not interested in learning any of it. But, they love to spout opinions about "fit and finish" while ignoring glaring engineering drawbacks.

Shotgunlover,,most English guns since the 1900 are A&D. Holland and Holland. Purdey. W W greener .greener wasnt widely copied.that takes care of engineering questions

r.e. WW Greener - I have seen far more Facile Princeps models than A&D guns from Greener, although he made both, as well as sidelocks.

I do not think that 'engineering' questions are quite so easily disposed of.

Exactly greener had a propriety gun that almost No one copied.i don't think greener made all there A&D action guns I think they bought them from brazier at least quite a few.if you look at engineering of A&D Holland's purdey these guns were engineered in 1875 1885 and 1890 and the designs are still being made.so as far ass English SXS the engineering is settled .

I looked into the question of London gun makers possibly making A&D action guns pretty deeply as part of the Reilly line research. I queried several scholars including Donald Dallas, Douglas Tate and Vic Venters.

The conclusion was that no London gun maker except possibly one made the A&D boxlock actions themselves - none - they were all bought in the white from Birmingham which by 1878 was tooled up to produce them. The London gunmakers concentrated their resources on making side-locks and touting them as - well - more "interesting."

kinda like the birmingham chevy and the london caddie...

both will get you there and back...

but the caddie in more style...

No because London gunmakers branded A&D action guns as there own.so don't buy the name buy the gun

If we had a bumper sticker it truly should read "don't buy the name buy the gun". There are a few A&D action(ed) gun which were finished to the very highest standards.But they must be 1 in a 1,000 or even 1 in 5,000. When made they cost just as much as the top of the line side-locks but bring a small fraction today. Styles change and values reflect modern values not historic values and not keyed to inflation.

But there are guns finished to the same standards of the top tier gunmakers made by or finished by a less known maker so available at a far lower price this includes sidelock.