“Bamboo rods are like really good whiskeys or vinyl records. People who think they’re better and worth the money should get them. And people who don’t shouldn’t.”
John Gierach

With the perceived decline of (or is it the increased) interest in double guns I’ve been thinking about this quote and wondering how much it may apply to doubles. (BTW Gierach has plenty of both.)

IMO, his quote is pretty much spot on. There are things of interest to me that I will spend, what most might call, stupid money on. I still look for a good deal on them, however, not wanting to get "upside down".

I know what you mean by "the decline in interest in double guns", but with the prices some auction houses are realizing for them I'm beginning to wonder about that, so called, decline in interest. FWIW, I've had what is considered to be the best in whiskey, and have owned lots of vinyl LPs and 45s. I spend my money on neither, so I guess I'm in the group he calls "people who don’t".

''ve gotGierach'smbook
"Trout Bum" in my library-great read, his nomadic lifestye brings to mind Bodio's writings on how much $ he has spent inj his gun trading search for the "perfect" shotgun. Ainj't no such thing-- But my all-time favorite one fly rod for trout- my pre-fire Leonard 49- 7&1/2ft.- 3/2 for 5 wt. with LHW Bogdan Trout reel-- for steelhead- My Payne 3/2 for 7 wt. Hardy Perfect LHW- 8&1/2 ft. RWTF

I have had the pleasure to read most of John Geirach's books and look forward to his latest release. More a book of fishing philosophy than instructive methods but always give food for though and makes me think; 'Yes, I might try that.' As for cane rods; I must admit to a liking for them. Fortunately they are not too expensive on the second hand market here in the U.K. Lagopus.....

I question the decline in double issue too. I have bid on a lot of guns over the last few years, and there is no doubt in my mind that prices are rising steadily on old doubles. Maybe the increases in new ones are driving that. The number of bids in online auctions for individual items also seems to be increasing.

I keep a close watch on GunBroker particular and have noticed that over the last 6 months in particular, the numbe of collectible doubles has been declining in every auction cycle. Their normal total sales listings has been at 800-1000 every two weeks, but tha number of old doubles of any kind has dropped to the point there is little of any interest to bid on. I haven't bid on anything in the last two cycles which is unbelievable compared to the past.

The cane rods sort of relate to modern rods like driving a vintage car relates to driving one of today's. It is more than just the performance that counts in the enjoyment. In the same way, the vintage guns I shoot ad something to the experience that modern guns cannot.

My experience in selling cane rods has been "buy low, sell high." Wish I could say the same on some doubles I've bought over the years...Gil

I’ve noticed the same thing in the narrow niche of guns that I watch for but was not sure across the wider double gun market here in the states. Yet, when Daniel Cote ceased publication of the DGJ last year he mentioned the “diminishing interest in classic guns,” and “…young people of today are not nearly so interested in classics guns…” as one of his two reasons for closing down the Journal (the other being rising material and labor costs). As a counter to that the Jan. ‘22 Field and Stream article on Mike Jensen”s double gun room in Kansas City stated, “It may come as a surprise that many of Jensen’s customers aren’t aging collectors, but younger hunters in their 30s and 40s, with the millennial’s taste for the artisanal and the handmade.”

So, I’m left scratching my head and accordingly, have slightly edited the original post to reflect that.

GLS: Selling cane right now isn't all that easy either. Especially the better blue-collar stuff, and....you can include reels on that list too. What used to be a very fluid market just isn't anymore. Fishermen seem to go broke first for some reason?

FWIW-Logo-- the late Ernest Hemingway favored Hardy rods and reels, over American cane rod offerings, especially in the 1930's, when with 2nd. wife's family wealth behind him, he had Uncle Gus Pfeiffer finance his deep sea 39ft Wheeler boat, named "The Pilar" and used Hardy rods and Vom Hofe salt water reels on it..Pictures of him trout fishing in Idaho's Silver Creek, also the Harriman "Railroad Ranch" section of the Henry's Fork also show him using a Hardy Rod and a Hardy Perfect fly reel. I'm not going to state that Hardy tackle of that era was any "better" Than: Leonard, Payne, Thomas, Gillum, Garrison, Wright&McGill, R.L. Winston, Heddon or Garrison.. The serious American fly fisherman of the pre-WW2 era had many offerings available to him in quality cane rods--Once you have fished for trout with a split cane fly rod, and then fished the same waters with a "chemical fly rod", well it's like hearing Glenn Gould, Canadian piano maestro, play the Bach Goldberg variations on a Steinway or Bosendorfer Grand piano, and then hearing the same played on a whorehouse piano, a la Scott Joplin. RWTF

I personally like the finer things in life. I am not a rich man but I strive to have the very best I can afford. And in many instances more than I can afford.

Wax poetic about bamboo rods if you like, but I have never seen a sport using one to have anything other than a modern (i.e., plastic) line slithering through the guides. Yes, you can still buy silk lines, but nostalgia has limits and practicality takes over.

If you can still buy silk lines, some "sport" must be using them. I was not aware that they were available. More power to 'em.

I enjoy fine split bamboo rods too. Like a fine shotgun do they fish better that a fiberglass rod, probably not. But like a nice shotgun I appreciate the hand workmanship and the small number of the ones made.




John Boyd

I used to fish silk lines regularly. The older rods I was using had the smaller line guides. Silk is 3 times denser and only 1/3 the diameter of modern lines. It's great to use but....it does have a care and feeding component. There are now modern equivalents that mimic silk's characteristics. Sylk was one.

Never used silk lines on any of my split cane rods--Have I missed out on something? Uncle Ed had a 3 pc. Montague "Rapidan" 81/2 ft. rod, Pflueger 1494 reel RHW-and always unspooled the silk line for the Winter "put-away" and then re-dressed it before the April opener-- I can see a silk line for dry fly work, but for nymphing and streamers, I am not so sure. Even if I wanted to use some, how do you match up a silk line with a modern synthetic line, ie" My favorite dry fly rig is: My Pre-fire Leonard 49- Bogdan reel and a Wulffm 4/5 trtiangle taper line and appropriate leaders. So what scale or chart do I need to match the action I get with that combo-- using No. 16 Adams, and No. 20 midges??RWTF

I realize it has been a common perception that silk lines are much thinner than modern day plastic lines. In a small survey done on the Classic Flyrod Forum, it was found that on average that DT4 silk fly lines are actually only about 11% thinner than DT4F plastic fly lines. Having found this, I have a Phoenix DT1 silk line that runs about the same diameter as an Orvis DT1F plastic line that I have.

http://classicflyrodforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=148326

Just like shooting a SxS adds to the experience, silk fly lines adds to the experience as well — it’s all part of the experience and tradition.

Some people just want their tools to work.

I think many vintage items are more like totems for their owners. They don’t actually get used. They mostly just get looked at and fondled.
Which is all cool with me.

I’d like a glass rod, because that’s what I grew up with.

I have other high tech rods that cast far better

But I like the feel of a glass rod. They load differently.

I fished for salmon, with an Orvis rod that was made in Scotland, that was just a treat to hold in my hand.
I’ve never cast with another rod that compared.

I probably have a bunch of silk flylines packed away in my warehouse. Inherited stuff.
Since I live right by scientific anglers, I tend to support the local team.

An Orvis rod made in Scotland, must be one rare bird, eh?

I’d be the first to say, IDK.
The keeper handed it to me.
I was instantly impressed with how are the rod handled, and he and I begin to talk about it.
I looked right at the labels.
Edited to add:
I may be misremembering the brand label, but not the country of manufacture.
I’ll make an effort tomorrow to locate pictures of the outfit.

It was important to the estate to be using locally produced equipment.
I have no idea of the age, or collectibility, or provenance of the rod.

I can fish any rod and be happy. It just has to feel right in my hand and the fly has to do what I want it to do.
That’s why rod designers have jobs. A rod for every hand that pleases the owner.

I am definitely more in the “it has to work“ category.

An Orvis rod made in Scotland, must be one rare bird, eh?[/quote


Nope, Orvis outsourced through Sharpes of Aberdeen, same impregnating process as the American made Orvis cane rods.

The past and present Brit gunmakers are to doubles as to what past and present American split cane rod makers are to rods. Both are at the top of their crafts. Gil

Silk lines used to only float for me for about 4 hours and you'd then have to turn them around or dry them and re-dress them. There are now beeswax based line treatments that will last much longer. In the western US, silk really hasnt been that much of an inconvenience. I'd just unspool the damp line onto the floor of my truck and it'd be dry when I got home. In more humid climates....maybe not.

In rods designed for them, silk line really makes the rod come alive. Fishing today actually, in New Mexico on the San Juan below Navijo Dam, but....with modern equipment (Hardy stuff).

Agree- heard a story about Harold Steele Gillum-lived in Litchfield, CT. and like Everett Garrison, was a "one man" shop producing top quality split cane rods, whereas H.L. Leonard , Thomas, and Jim Payne were more into production of rods with many very skilled workers on an "assembly line" basis. Story about "Pinky" Gillum was he was extremely secretive- worked out of his house in the basement, and when a rep. from A&F in NYC made a call on him one evening, his wife invited him in, and shouted down the stairs going to his basement shop "Harold, there's a man here to see you about your fly rods, and Pinky came up, well-worn shop apron on, and holding a 3" wide sash paint brush in hand, said: "Sorry, I was just getting ready to varnish a few salmon rods- what can I do for you!"" RWTF

Bamboo fly rods are a treat to use, as are silk fly lines (they are quite complimentary to each other). The problems I'm facing here lately are finding good places to use either. Colorado has become so-overrun with new people that all the major rivers are simply packed, and in almost all-weather, with rafters, kayakers, fishing guides & sports, and all the other general nitwits. Maybe I'm becoming just another angry old man but...when I fish I do so for the perhaps-intangible benefits of the "quality" experience and it's getting pretty hard to do that on public water out here anymore. Private water seems to be the last vestige of such an experience and I'm having a hard time paying for what I had for free that was so-good for so very-long now. In the end, I'll probably pony up the cash as I do miss it. At least hunting hasn't been so darn over-run, at least not yet. Water is such a limited resource out here, especially "quality water".

Check out “Drew lookin fishy” on youtube.
He will help you up your prospecting game.

CZ: I'll look into that, but....I'm a working stiff again these days. I don't have all the time needed to randomly prospect like I used to. I also tend to like bigger water and...they're not making anymore of that. That trip down to New Mexico last week was double-duty (I attended a celebration of life in Durango) to help justify the 8- hour drive. The cost of fishing trips has risen precipitously, as one would expect these days. $100 per man per night rooms and $35 meals out are now the average, at least here. I can do that a little cheaper (I suppose), but...the cost/benefit basis for all that is getting much tougher to justify for just a few dinky fish. Big trout are much more fun, and even the chance of hooking one is always pleasant to contemplate. Small fish don't entirely justify all of the now-added expenses to get there.

I’ll say. Got the annual TU contest mailing yesterday and the Grand Prize 5 day/5 night Alaska fishing trip for 4 (including rods, reels, and assorted gear) is valued at $35,000!

I do a week up there at a time for less than two, I can’t imagine what they would do to me for 35!

That’s not the same as renting a lodge with staff on a famous beat in Norway for a week or 10 days.

The tug is the drug.

We don’t have forever
Life turns on a dime

I know we don't have forever, but I'm juggling enough stuff these days to make me just a little frugal with my time and money. I was raised by folks who lived through the great depression and I simply can't help but be that way. I need something of a return for my investment or...it seems too-frivolous to pursue.

CZ, you piqued my curiosity so I fished the flyer out of the round file and looked a little closer at how they came up with that 35K number. The actual 5 day/night trip is based aboard a yacht out of Sitka with various sized water craft available for daily guided fresh and salt water side trips. The new rods and reels (4) are Sage ($1200-$1300 each) and the associated equipment is about $1500. All meals are included as are 4 TU life memberships ($4400) plus $4K of travel/pocket money. Those total a little shy of $15,000 so the actual fishing trip is $20K or $4000/day.

I’m OK with fundraisers.

I support many. They are what they are.

As a guy who has been facing health challenges for 14 years now (with only one end in sight), my perspective on obstructionism or overcoming challenges has probably evolved differently than for others.

I don’t look for excuses to say no. I find ways to say yes.
I even apply that in my career. They pay me to find the way.

I want all of my equipment worn out and threadbare when they close the lid on the box. Even if it meant that my last five trips were at a local pond.

I don’t want to buy anybody’s stuff at their wife’s yard sale, I want to see them wear it out even when it’s hard to do.