For some time now, I've been hunting on a "one shot, one chance" basis. Hunting for decades, I did with SxS, O/U and semiauto shotguns in 12, 16, 20 and 28 gauges. I'm sure that my favourite bore is 28 to give more advantage to game and enjoy each catch much more.

The legendary Cyril Adams was in favour of single barrel shotguns in his later years. I would like to know which ones he used.

My lovely little lady, Milady, is a Wiggan&Elliott (before 1888).

How many of you hunt with single barrel shotguns?

I've stated before that I believe the 19th century English hammer singles are the most classy hunting guns available. I've had a Needham 16ga that kicked so bad for me to use I sold it to another member here a few years ago and he said it kicked too much for him as well. My favorite is a heavier 12ga Needham single and also use a 20ga Army & Navy but don't shoot it so well...Geo

I've stated before that I believe the 19th century English hammer singles are the most classy hunting guns available. I've had a Needham 16ga that kicked so bad for me to use I sold it to another member here a few years ago and he said it kicked too much for him as well. My favorite is a heavier 12ga Needham single and also use a 20ga Army & Navy but don't shoot it so well...Geo

Ola amigo mio,que tal?? I 'hunt" with a single shot escopeta, if you would allow me to consider shooting barn pigeons in area dairy farms as "hunting".. I have also used it for Tower released pheasants at our area hunting club, both instances I load the chamber but leave the gun opened, as there is no top lever safety. The gun I like to use is an inherited Ithaca "Knick" grade 5E with a 32" full choked barrel and raised ventilated top rib, and red Ithaca sunburst recoil pad- It fits me like an Armani suit on a goombah. And the pattern it throws with any size and type of shell is deadly--out to a measured 50 yards. But due to safety concerns, I never use it for walk up bird hunts when accompanied by other club members. I enjoyed very much seeing your first class fotos, that is indeed "Una escopeta muy magnifico y usted es un hombre con mucho buen suerte, si como no??" El Zorro

Beautiful gun - has it been restocked? I don't recognize that checkering pattern...

I have and hunt with a single barrel J & W Tolley hammerless. Absolutely love using it.

Camparo's gun looks Spanish to me, maybe an early Sarasqueta. I would love to own such a gun. I have hunted with single Ithacas, Parkers, and my favorite, a Francotte that once had a safety and may have one again.

I shoot two. One is a 6 lb hammer Tisdale in 12 gauge with 32” barrel. The other is a 4 1/2 lb hammer Graham 16 gauge, both damascus. Both are fun to carry and have shot a lot of quail but I always have to get used to their lack of any momentum. I love them! But then you have to understand I’m a flintlock shooter so a single shot cartridge gun is a quantum leap into the future.

I have a single shot 16ga Army Navy hammer gun that is easy to shoot, but so light anything beyond a low velocity 7/8 load pounds the daylights out of you.

It is a joy, but limited.

I shoot an Iver Johnson Special Trap, 32" VR barreled gun occasionally at doves, just for fun. And, occasionally as well at "scrap", at the range. Don't have a really nice English fowler yet. Yet. This 'un will do for now.



Very pretty W & E, campero.

Do any of y'all remember the fellow up in Canada, on the Atlantic coast I think, that used very nice English single barrels for goose and duck hunting? He was a member on this board, but has not posted in many years. I fear he is no longer among us. I always loved to see his pictures. Cannot remember his name.

Edit: I just remembered ......... Terry Lubzinski. Vancouver, BC. I miss him.

I have a Bentley single hammer gun 12 ga.really light have not used it a lot

Stan, Terry has a beautiful Reilly 12 ga. SxS SN 303xx which he posted on the Reilly line about 4 years ago. I hope he's still around but people did abandon this site during the "political purge" era.

I started out with a single barrel shotgun. I'm still thinking about how rarely I fire two shots at one bird.
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=623061&page=1

Thank you for your answers. Great to know that some of you use single shot guns for hunting. I would like to see pictures because I love single shot guns, shotguns and rifles, and if they have an external hammer, they look even nicer to me. In fact, I wouldn't mind having another one similar to mine in the same bore or 20 gauge, but I can't find it.

My W&E is not a Spanish gun. It was made by Wiggan&Elliott before 1888, when the factory closed. I have scarce information about it and I am sorry, I wish she could talk and tell me about its 150 year history. On the barrel is engraved: MAKERS TO THE ROYAL FAMILY AND THE PACHA OF EGYPT. I have the original stock, but Milady has now one longer and beauty too.



I hope to see more of your guns and that will be more of us in this "one shot, one chance" philosophy of hunting.

Depicted are American wild turkeys shot with a 12 ga. Yildiz TK12 (4.25 lbs.), a .410 Yildiz TK36 (3lbs. 4 oz,) and American Woodcock shot with a Beretta M412 20 ga. (4 lbs., 13 oz.) My shooting partner's gun was not photoed with the doodles.
I prefer single-shots for the wild turkeys but treasure and prefer a second shot on the smaller birds.

Beautiful countryside, camp.

I've got a "new to me" single that is being prepped for next waterfowl season. It is a Sarasqueta Zephyr, Honker model, that is a 10 ga. 3 1/2" magnum with a 36" barrel. It is going to be a dedicated pass shooting, long range duck/goose gun. The original choke had been honed out to .021", which is an absolute travesty, IMO. It is being threaded for interchangeable chokes, to return it's ability to make long range shots. Pics next year, hopefully, after it's "blooded".

Good one, Stan.. Will you use Briley for the choke work? My choice, but I am no expert on that field. I like full chokes in my 12 bore shotguns, to each his own. RWTF

Nope, one of my best friends designed and manufactures CompNChoke and Gobblin Thunder choke tubes, just a short drive from my house. The machine shop there does excellent barrel work as well. They offered me the opportunity to test all their different constrictions, on their pattern plate, with my loads, to determine the "sweet spot", then buy the one I want.

Hard to turn down a deal like that.

I treated my self at Holts to a 12 bore 2 1/2” nitro re-proofed Edwinson Green single. When I tried it at clays with 28 gram loads it leapt out of my forward hand. It did account in fine style for an oncoming pheasant, probably because the jump intersected the flight path.

As I could not shoot with it I sold it to Malcolm King, and it ended up at Rock Island with much of his collection.

It is now on your side of the pond. I should have tried it with 21 gram loads. Perhaps one of you will get the chance.



Not a problem I had with this little Thomas Patent.410 William Moore and Grey, now in the WMG collection. That is one I certainly should have hung on to.

This post got me thinking about a newer addition to my accumulation that I picked up at the NE SXS event at Hauseman's last June. it is a very stout G. E. Lewis British single barrel 12 gauge that is Nitro proved for 1 1/2 ounces and has a 3 inch chamber with a 32 inch Improved Modified choked barrel. It weighs a hefty 8 lbs. 8.4 ounces but has great balance and feels lighter.

It is a single side lock hammer gun and what I read is a Dumoulin style firing pin/plunger system. Non ejector/extractor. It also has two small ivory beads on the receiver for aid in aiming in low light, there is no rib.

I have had good success smoking clays with it but have not had it out for actual hunting yet. I actually shoot it pretty well.

Stan, I also have a Sarasqueta Zephyr 10 gauge, but I Have the true sidelock SXS version. I hits like Thor's hammer with 3.5 inch Bismuth 2's and 4's.

Here's Baikal MP18 20 ga. When a buddy retired, I gave it to him. This was the first bird I shot with it over 10 years ago. Gil

My current Baikal MP18:


And campero, this one will knock your socks off. Here's Chilean Pato with his Baikal single-shot. It is indeed the Indian, not the arrow. This was posted years ago at
doublegun by JayCee from Chile.

In 2014, Terry sent me the below photo of his 10 ga. Greener. Gil

Thanks for pictures and words! Beautiful guns! I'm looking for a 20 or 28 ga for clay shooting, but is difficult to find one similar to mine.

Parabola, what a pity you couldn't shoot comfortably with the E. Green single shot. I'm lucky cause I can shot every 28/70 cartridge I want with Milady.

Gil, yes, is the Indian and I hope to find many wild species to reinforce my "one shot, one chance" philosophy.

16-bore by Thomas Seymour of London, converted from percussion. Non-rebounding lock, 2 1/2" chamber, twist barrel, nitro re-proof.

This is the Springfield Model 1929 single 16 with 30” barrel that I mentioned last August in the Priceless thread that has been biding its time in the back of the safe waiting for the grandkids to get old enough to start enjoying it. Typical gun that you'd find standing behind the kitchen door in a midwest farmhouse of my youth. The garden was usually out the backdoor and the mother of the house could keep an eye on it from the window over the sink. When a groundhog was spotted among the rows she would reach behind the door, thumb back that hammer and slip the muzzle out the screendoor. Problem solved.

Campero,

Diggory Hadoke has recently posted a YouTube video featuring a double 12 bore Wiggan and Elliott patent double hammer gun.

It was seller’s remorse at having parted with the .410” William Moore and Gray (it had gone to a collector in Switzerland when I asked about buying it back) that was a major factor in prompting me to buy May Greener’s .410 converted rook rifle at Holts a while back.

That and I didn’t really expect my bid at just over bottom estimate to romp home!

Awesome guns guys. Thanks for sharing. Any more?

Beautiful lady, Parabola! I'm interested in other rook rifle converted to a small gauge too, but I don't know if patterns of this guns are good. What do you think?

Yes, Jimmy, hope to see more single barrel guns!

Parabola, I have an almost identical single .410 that you pictured. Mine is by Ebrall Brothers of Shropshire and was bored out from a .360 Rook Rifle. Possibly yours is too. If you find in the Proof Marks a number something like 40 or another two digit number that would be the bore of the Rook Rifle. If it's got re-proof marks then that may be how it started out. Lagpus.....

Lagopus, the original proof marks don’t show the original Rook calibre, but Graham Greener kindly looked it up for me and it was one of a batch of .380 Long Rook Rifles Greener’s bought in from Thomas as per the above entry for number 24884.

Curiously although it us marked as being Thomas’s 1871 patent it has Purdey’s double bite.

The original Thomas Patent guns (like my William Moore and Grey) only had a single bite on the rear lump.

Campero,

There is no reason why a bored out Rook Rifle converted to .410 should not pattern as well as a purpose made .410 IF the job has been properly done AND it has not since been neglected.

British .410 ammunition had corrosive primers until about 1960 and a lot of the earlier conversions will be found to be deeply pitted and will never shoot well.

Make sure that any you look at have have a good clean bore, and they should pattern OK depending on choke.

Make sure that it is not a 2” chamber (50mm - which is pretty useless except for ratting inside a barn).

2 1/2” (65 mm) cartridges can work well but 3” (76mm) guns will be more versatile.

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Thanks, Parabola, for your words!

https://oplognosia.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/facs0035-1.jpg

I do not know if the pic will show. It is a Baikal IZ18 20g customised with walnut stock and forend, polished internals, the main spring is from a Beretta 686. It is not equal to an English quality single, but it is readily available and the customising cost very little. Final weight is 2.6 kilos and for some reason the recoil is very mild.

The lever opening-cocking system combined with auto ejector makes loading really quick when you get the hang of it.

Here are my current singles.



In order down, they are:

WC Scott high grade 8 gauge Light Waterfowl gun.
Galand Paris 10 gauge waterfowl gun (barrel as thick as a pipe).
Albert Harper Birmingham 12 gauge
Manufrance Simplex Model 26 16 gauge
Bonehill 16 gauge single hammerless with crossbolt lockup.

The top two are Damascus, the rest steel. The Galand I believe is quite early. The barrel is Damascus at the front but the Octagon section is larger and is laminate. I suspect the thicker rear was hammer welded over the inner barrel section during construction. It also has a rear v-notch sight, I presume for vlock shooting. It is too front heavy for much wingshooting.

Parabola, chances are my re-bored .410 and yours are virtual twins made by the same person and sold on to different companies. Certainly looks the same in all respects. Mine was bored to take the 2 1/2" cartridge and shoots well. According to the Proof marks the conversion was carried out sometime 1939/40.

I too have a William Moore & Grey gun with a Thomas action which is a double 20 bore and number 1 of a pair. I am yet to find its companion. Lagopus.....

The current Holt's auction lists numerous former rook rifles rebored to .410. This was apparently a thriving business in England at one time. Except for the very high end guns, they mostly carry estimates of &200-300. If they were in the US, they would bring several multiples higher than that.

I don't see a .410 single as being very practical, but a 16 or a 20 might be a very good time; hammered would be even better.

A 20 bore single certainly works well, but a 16 is probably getting a bit close to 12 bore shot weights for the recoil to be comfortable if it is built as a light gun.

There is a reason why all those basic 12 bore singles are built with thick walled heavy barrels.

AGS,

One reason for the number of conversions was an unintended consequence of the Firearms Act. Prior to the introduction of the Obsolete Calibres List both original calibre Rook rifles and those tubed to .22 were required to be held on a Firearm Certificate with the need to demonstrate “good reason” to possess and use (difficult when the ammunition ceased to be made).

It was much easier to re-bore them to .410 so the owner just needed a Gun Licence (10 shillings over the counter at the Post Office) or after 1968 a Shotgun Certificate with no good reason having to be demonstrated.

Lagopus,

We know from the Greener records that mine was bought in for 35/- from “Thomas” who was almost certainly the Patentee John Thomas .

He had been for 8 years work’s manager at Tipping and Lawden but by 1880 was trading in his own name 66 and 67 Slaney Street, Birmingham as a maker to the trade as set out in his advert reproduced in Vol. 2 of Crudginton and Baker.

Mine was clearly extensively re-worked by Charles Greener for his daughter May and almost certainly re-stocked ( I don’t think that even in 1882 35/- bought you walnut that nice in a Rook rifle).

What Greener’s records do not show was whether at 35/- the batch of .380 Rook rifles arrived as barrelled actions or substantially finished?

It was the lack of centre fire rook rifle ammunition being produced and the .22rf. that sounded then death knell. Main options were to re-bore to .410 or re-tube and convert to .22rf. or .22 Hornet. All those options can be found. The valuable ones now are those that are original.

Most of the rook rifle models had full length octagonal barrels and when converted to .410 had the main part of the barrel taken down to the round leaving about 8 inches of octagonal area at the breech to balance them better for shotgun shooting. Lagopus.....

"all those basic 12 bore singles are built with thick walled heavy barrels.""

In my experience not äll"quality singles have heavy barrels or are heavy overall. What I did see in many of these quality singles is a geneeours barrel wall thickness, usually around 40 thou combined with slight overboring. Forty thou in a single yields similar weight to a 20 thou double with none of the weakness. At first I thought the overbore was the result of honing, but I have seen it in so many singles that it cannot attributed solely to honing. I suspect that it might have been an attempt to lessen recoil.

I did have a single barrel 12 bore with Damascus barrels and originally black powder proof. It started life as a 16 bore and was then later bored out and re-chambered to 12 bore and then nitro proof tested.
These singles were often made with thicker barrels to tame recoil and this just goes to show how much can be taken out and it still pass as safe. It did kick a bit though. Lagopus.....