I was driving through Olathe, Kansas on my way home to Canada two weeks ago and made the mistake of stopping in the Olathe Gun shop, where I fairly fell in love with a very nice British 20ga on the rack. Unfortunately for me I'm not a US citizen, and the cost of importing the gun into Canada puts it out of my price range. So I've been perusing the better gun shops of Canada and came across a very promising Thomas Wild. Its a 20 gauge, 28" barrels, 2 3/4 chambers choked Cyl/Cyl. Very good bores. Extractor gun. It is listed at 5.43 lbs with an asking price of $2400 Canadian (about $2k USD after shipping and tax).

I would be looking at this as a dedicated grouse and woodcock gun, as an upgrade from my Browning BSS Sporter which is 28" with Skt/Skt chokes. I hunt thick brush over a pointer, so my shots are predominantly snap shots. Hunting in more open cover (Huns and pheasant in ND, etc) I usually shoot my Sweet Sixteen, or sometimes I borrow my wife's gorgeous 1950 20ga Superposed. I'm curious how a gun like this would handle in comparison to what I'm used to. The Cogswell and Harrison in Kansas felt like a pointing a pool cue, in a good way.

I'm admittedly out of my wheelhouse when it comes to these British guns. I know my Brownings well - that's all I've really hunted with for the last ten years. I was starting to know what I was looking at with Spanish guns, thinking I'd find an AyA or the likes here in Canada. But I could really use some advice on this one.

The two issues I'm seeing are the slight crack at the boxlock end of the stock, which looks minor. Also the lever looks a bit more centered than I'd like to see, but I'll leave that more to the experts here. I'm going to request some additional photos of the watertable and barrel faces, and will post those as well.

Hopefully I'm not shooting myself in the foot here if someone else were to grab it on me, but I trust y'all.

Thank you!

Nice gun. The crack APPEARS to be superficial. If it were mine, I would take the stock off to be sure, and probably brace it with an embedded piece of #4 allthread/epoxy. Gil

Oh how I wish Nick Mackinson were still alive! He would definitely have talked me into or out of this thing. Good call with the Epoxy, I will do that if it makes its way up here.

Pat, there is a 30 day money back guarantee on that gun. Return for any reason. Buy it, bring it to a competent sxs smith and have it assessed. If it's crap you will be out the cost of freight and the inspection. You will also find out how much it will be to make it right. If yoy don't know who to take it to, I may be able to help.


From the seller's website:
You should also know that, after taking into account FX, the vintage SxS market in Canada is somewhat depressed when compared to the US. In equivalent dollars, we are typically 25 to 35% less. Smaller less vibrant market and the headaches of moving guns across the border means there is no arbitrage that balances pricing out.

It's great to buy in Canada if you can find what you want.....its sucks to sell. Checking out GI and GB for price comparisons doesn't work well.

Hey Canvasback, good to meet another Ontarian on here. What neck of the woods are you located? I'm up on the North Shore of Superior, in Thunder Bay.

I'm seriously considering doing as you say, its a minor risk with their nice guarantee. I would love a recommendation of who to take it to - with Nick gone, and our local guy retired (he was a rifle guy anyhow, this would have been out of his wheelhouse), I'm lacking in the gunsmith dept.

first, the top lever, Britt guns are not made as most American, with the top lever right of center working back towards ctr. They are made to line up centered.
Shooting, yes this gun will most likely be very quick, excellent for snap shots.
Stock, besides the crack, I would check for oil soaked wood. Most dealers store guns stock down and if the action had an abundance of oil it has now migrated into the wood. I learned the hard way.

Pat, I'm down along the shore of Lake Ontario east of Toronto, town called Port Hope. Pretty much 900 miles from you by highway. Although I'm pretty familiar with TB. Originally from Winnipeg, and a lot of time spent in NW Ont. Sold one of my project Foxes to a fellow up there who, with some gunsmith friends of mine, turned it into part of a match pair of Fox 16 and 20 gauge.

If you have used Nick in the past, you are used to sending the gun out. Because there is no one up there. I'm sending you a private message.

Appears to be a hidden cross bolt gun, I can’t see where the bolt dutifully pokes out the left side of the detonation? Unusual style for an English gun.

It looks like a Grouse gun to me. Canvasback will turn you on to a good Canadian gunsmith, he has them all on retainer. Likely due for a strip and clean, at the least, and a repair to that crack on the head.

Good luck.

Best,
Ted

Bwahahahaha!

Will the stock dimensions suit you? Other than that, it is a great gun. The crack would certainly not scare me off. Barrel walls are something to wonder about,given that the gun is choke C/C and the chambers are 2.75". If you can reconcile that with the proofs or a direct measurement, what's not to love? I'd buy it.

The checkering looks re-cut..not necessarily a bad thing. Just something to note.
I'd guess from the pics that the bbls are re-blued. They look really great, maybe too good for the rest of the gun. The normally polished up breech end & lug
a bit too bright and new polish looking.
Again, just an observation.

The proof info from the bbl flats would be a must to determine if the 2 3/4" chambers are original.
'In Proof' seems to be so important on Brit guns.
You can do most anything to anyone elses guns and as long as it's done safely, there isn't much said.

Cyl/Cyl chokes certainly possible as orig.
But is that something you would necessarily like to have.

Here's a 12ga Thomas Wild on Hollowell's site. It's redone and a PW grip stock.
The excellent pics show the crossbolt on the left side of the breech and how they hid the round bolt in the engraving scroll work which is much the same as on
this 20ga,
http://www.hallowellco.com/thomas_wild%2012ga.html

Well you guys are a bunch of enablers. Ha ha just kidding, I can blame that on my wife. I went ahead and ordered it, with the 30 day guarantee and with how remote I am, its really my best bet to handle it and see how it fits and feels, and hopefully get it on a good gunsmiths bench for a confirmation and a tuneup (Thanks Canvasback, I owe you a beer).

I'll post more photos once its here! Thanks for the help everyone.

Patrick

If the barrels check out you will have a nice gun to enjoy. Good luck. I have seen several similar 20 bore doubles on Holts auctions that seem to bring less than a thousand pounds. If this one does not work out for some reason I would watch for a nice looking example in one of the upcoming auctions. You only live once and not for long enough to pass up too many nice guns.

Pat,

C'back's tip is spot on. Looks like a great double with very good chokes for grouse and woodcock hunting. I would note that as a practical matter, your BSS is a single trigger. You have been shooting that for a while. This one has double triggers. Back in the day when I had double trigger and single trigger doubles, I always messed up my second shot.

Wild records are still intact for research. Nigel Brown's book lists that they are with Barry King in Birmingham; I don't know if that still is the case. He was last listed at Unit FF1, 63, Price Street, Birmingham. B4 6JZ. Lagopus.....

nca225, I'm braced for that embarrassment - I had a CZ Bobwhite for a little while, and it took a bit of deliberate practice to get used to the DT. Hopefully my brain is still pliable enough in late 30s to manage, but the BSS has been my go-to grouse and woodcock gun for about 12 years, and we hunt a few times a week throughout the season, so there is a lot of muscle memory at play.

I'm hoping that the Cyl chokes actually have a slight constriction, I'm not sure if the listing is going by markings on the gun or actual measurements of the bore. Regardless, there is a bit of adjustment that can be made through shot and wad selection if I get picky. It would be nice if I can make use of this gun for our occasional quail hunting trips to the Southwest. I was using my Auto-5 sweet sixteen with a factory mod choke this year, and while its nice to have that third shot for cripples, a load of 7.5s at mod seemed like overkill for those little birds.

Lagopus, once I have it here in hand I'm hoping to get some more info. Is the Internet Gun Club still a good source of info for records? I found some older posts on there that seem to imply a member had access to the records, perhaps it was Barry King himself. My guess from the serial number and the proximity/similarity to the Hallowell 12 bore is that this is a mid to late 1930s gun. But we shall see.

In my experience, I've found that Cylinder chokes are deadly up to 20-25 yards, when point shooting for grouse and woodcock. Not so useful if they are skittish and are going up at a distance though.

FWIW, my consistency in screwing up the second shot, prompted me to let go of my single trigger doubles, one of which was the BSS. I was fond of that gun though. My compromise on it was to get ahold of a Miroku (Daly) model 500.