And not a sxs on site

Could well be because most British .410 side by sides to be found these days are:-
a) 2 1/2” chambers
b) Only weigh about 4 1/2 pounds
c) Cost about 2-3 times the cost of a reasonable quality Italian over and under

All excellent points, parabola. I came close to "pulling the trigger" on one this past spring but it's usefulness, because of those points you made, did not balance with it's price. It was a beauty in the hand, however.

Even the Brits seem to be moving towards Turkish guns more and more. Note that the three prizes awarded for the top three men's scores were most likely Turkish, two for certain: 2nd and 1st, and the Mossberg was most likely a Mossberg Reserve which is also a Turkish made O/U. I predicted nearly ten years ago that the world would become more and more accepting of Turkish guns as their quality continually improves. But, even I was surprised when I saw on the video how many were being shot that day.

Looking at the price points of the First and Second Prizes I suspect that the Mossberg was a Model 500 .410 pump.

Nice to see Carlo Rizzini taking part. I much enjoy his .410 YouTube videos.

Yes this was fun to watch. I suppose here in the U.S. we would have to be using 2 1/2" shells for any competition. Problem is I haven't seen any 3" 410 shells since before the covid craze.
Yes Carlos was shooting his Perazzi MX410.

The white shells I saw being loaded into a gun looked to be 2 1/2", which is what i would expect them to be. Most .410 sporting courses I've shot need no more than 1/2 oz. shot to crush all the targets.

Mike, 3" shells could be used here for competition as long as the shoot was not a NSCA registered shoot.

At current prices today, this 100 bird shoot would cost me $100 in 2 1/2" 410 shells. All the 2 1/2" shells I have been seeing in the stores are $25 a box.

There are modern three inch guns available in sxs ask Stan he shoots them and I don't think that those guns Stan shoots are at the price point of new English sxs guns .now they need a 410 sxs championship

Stan is right about most .410 courses being well covered with 1/2 ounce loads with any chokes worth using. I just shoot my 42's with full choke for everything and do not feel the least bit handicapped. I also use the same guns for the regular big bore course and do find that some of those targets stretch my range more than it would with a 12, but just a couple pellets will do the job and a chipped clay target does not fly off to suffer so I am happy to stretch my ability with a .410. Before you know it you will be breaking birds at 35 to almost 40 yards fairly consistently. The best thing about clay targets is they fly the same route every time, so you can learn from and correct your mistakes. Start breaking a bird at 25, then 30, then 35 yards will teach you a lot about shooting a small bore. Done in changes of two to three yards you can quickly learn as you go.

28 and .410 are great shells to reload and save a lot of money. I shoot a lot of .410 and have a Spolar reloading machine which cranks them out just a nice as factory shells for about $4.50/25 for .410 $5.20/25 for 28 gauge. I load 12 mostly to have all the varieties of shot and payload/pressure that I need but small gauge save me so much money that my machine has paid for itself many time over. Plus when loading .410 I know that I get 800 loads out of a single bag of shot. That makes the .410 my gas sipping, economy gun, that is fun to shoot and kills just about everything.

Regardless of the explanation given by the commercial shotshell companies, it amazes me that both .410 and 28 gauge commercial ammo costs are inversely proportional to the actual costs of components. It pays to reload them. Gil

I have just been browsing through Richard Milner’s excellent article (HBSA Journal, Vol. 3, No. 2 December 2000) which contains a digest of Edwinson Green’s surviving records between 1881 (S/N 3199) and 1947 (S/N 7091).

Those records appear to have been the Order Book for the Cheltenham shop (he had a branch at Gloucester) and more often than not do not show the serial number but almost invariably show the calibre. Mostly 12 bores, some 16s, some 20s, a few 10, 8 and the occasional 4 bore.

The shop traded into the 1970’s run by Dudley Green, the grandson but 1947 seems to have effectively marked the end of Edwinson Green guns made by or for them in their own serial number range.

What struck me was that of their own build over almost 70 years and approaching 4,000 guns they seem to have produced precisely ONE .410
No. 6922, a double hammerless ejector in June 1914 for Tweedie.

I am sure that in the same period they must have sold a good few .410’s of other makes.

I have a Jones for .410s and own several. A no-name Spaniard is the one I hunt with the most, PG and 28"barrels. The prettiest is an Aspen Outfitters AOC Uggie boxlock with beautiful wood, straight grip and 28" barrrels. The one I shoot best is a Browning Feather XS Sporting with 30" barrels. Also a couple of Win 42s and a Win 101, and a FAIR Rizzini Cortona, plus a Rem 1100. Love 'em all. It's obvious that I may have a problem, but I don't care. When I was actually shopping for .410s, the biggest issues were finding guns with long barrels, tight chokes, and adult dimensions. I "need" a .410 hammer double.

I'm pretty sure the Cortona is the same gun as the Verona, minus side plates. I love my .410 Verona 30". Is your Corona 30"?

Stan, I bought a bunch of Cortonas when they were being closed out, got a bunch of guys together for a quantity price. Everything was 28" barrels. from 12ga thru .410. I got the .410 and 28ga, case colored with laser engraved side plates, a 16ga with side plates and gold wire line engraving, and a 12ga Alumino for pheasants. My buddies got 12s, 20s, 28s and .410s. Great guns, nicely finished, same factory as the Verona but different trims and nicer wood than I have seen on Veronas. There were about six grades available, from their "Ugly Gun" (that is the actual model name for their camo dipped 12ga O/U waterfowl gun), thru the gold wireline stuff. Came with choice of blued, polished aluminum, French gray, or case color finish with various levels of engraving. Finish on the higher grades equal to my Beretta 687 and Sig B. Rizzini guns.

I bought my FAIR Verona second hand. It was a target gun and had an ugly stock with an adjustable buttplate, and had too little DAH for me. I found a field style buttstock that had been pulled off of one because of a crack in the wrist and bought it for $50. I repaired the crack, fitted it to my Verona, and now it shoots where I look and is much prettier. This is the picture that Bazil Slaughter sent me from Reno. You can see the bad crack running through the side plate inlet and slightly into the wrist area. The crack is invisible now, on the gun. Not a bad looking stock for a Verona, eh?



I believe it to be the equal of my Beretta 687 SPII Sporting in terms of fit, finish, and function. Whether it will last as long for as many rounds I can't say. But the FAIR guns are a heckuva lot of gun for the $$$, about that I am certain. My model is the LX692 Gold Sporting in 28/.410, with 30" barrels. I don't know if you remember but you helped me a lot when I was looking at this gun, before purchase, with info about Veronas. I appreciate your help 9 years later, Replacement, because it was a really good purchase that I am still happy about.

You guys keep chatting up 410s and the price will go up.

I was hot after a .410 hammer gun on Holts a few years ago. 32” barrels but with short chambers, 2” I think not 2 1/2” or 3”. Also the chokes were cylinder and half choke when I would much rather have full and full. Estimate was 700-900 pounds. I dropped out at 2,000 pounds and watched it sell for 2,500 pounds. After Holts premium that was 3,200 pounds. By the time I got it imported and the restock I’m sure it would need I figured it was a $6-7,000 money pit. Still if another one pops up I sure I’ll be bidding on it as well. I love those long barreled small bores.

I saw this gun at the Spring Southern, but thoughts of picking it up cheap vanished rapidly.

https://poulinantiques.hibid.com/lo...0-game?q=410&sortOrder=0&apage=2

Stan, I'm happy to have helped fuel the addiction. Agree that they are great guns for the money. I suspect your buttstock came from a FAIR gun that was not labeled Verona. Very nice piece of wood.

As much as I like my Browning Feather XS with 30" barrels, I'd still rather have a FAIR gun with the scaled frame.

Currently in the online catalogue for Holts November Sale, are 3 .410 SxS doubles. A Watson BLE with a Video clip of Nick Holt plugging it, a Kavanagh BLE with an interesting provenance, and a Blanch hammer gun.
All 2 1/2 inch and well under 5 pounds in weight (but not in price)

Stan, I suspect my “made in Italy” Rottweil .410 OU came out of the FAIR factory as the ejector work closely resembles their products but I have not yet been able to confirm that 100%.