With the issues of lead shot ban, ageing of the double gun shooters, the high value of the US dollar there are numerous values at gun shops in the UK now. Here is one for a pair of best quality BLE with 2 3/4 inch chambers and 28 inch barrels that you can buy for US$7,500.00 and be able to get them shipped here for =/- US1,000.00 (about the amount of money that the oak and leather case alone is worth for these wonderful appearing guns).

https://www.gmackinlay.com/product/pair-of-12g-ad-ejectors-by-j-wilkes-28-x-2-3-4-barrels/

Further to this value is another extraordinary one: A 1905 Boss SLE made by John Robertson himself with his final upgraded patent trigger with 30 inch Boss made barrels of 1990 that have perfect bores and min wall thickness of .031" and .032"; with a 15" plus LOP stock. The barrels of this beauty are worth more than the entire gun price and the wood for the restocking would cost today maybe US$5,000.00 for the stock blank alone.

http://www.elderkinguns.co.uk/products.asp?productID=832

Searching through the gun dealers of quality in the UK their websites are just full of these values----- just as Diggory writes about.

Kindest regards
Stephen Howell

I think the end is near:

https://www.gunstar.co.uk/william-p...tor-12-bore-gauge-side-/Shotguns/1531942

Lots, I mean lots, of good quality guns in England are a step away from the scrapper.

Best,
Ted

Crying shame. Whatever depreciation in value occurring in Britain has not (IMO) translated to comparable devaluation on this side of the Pond. I still see thin walled guns (<.030) offered for more than I think they’re worth, especially hammer guns and sleeved guns.

Its like the current stock markets buy at the bottom if you have the stomach for it.Hoping to make the Game fair 2024 to by a best gun if I have any money left.

With the Pound trading at $1.10 right now there is even a bit more wiggle room to buy. I have noticed a lot of box locks being worth less than the cost to import for sometime. It seems like the mid range guns are in steep decline price wise. They will settle but for about half of their previous value I think. Quality will always keep a gun value up there but mid range gun will find very few buyers and basic field grad guns have almost no interest I am told. If you could drive over there you could fill your truck up and drive home with a lot of guns for not too much money. But the cost of importing them takes a lot of the fun out of it and then I have to wonder if we are not just about ten years behind them, the UK, in the market crashing for our doubles. The next generation seems totally uninterested in doubles in any configuration than O/U. And like too many here I will be done shooting in too few years and gone in 20 years I expect. So many nice guns and not enough time or money to enjoy them all. I have four or five doubles I have bought this year that have not been shot once in the field or at clays.

The only young shooters that seem to favor the side by side are those who have been exposed in a positive way as children. I personally doubt that many will grow to become collectors of fine English doubles. If someone has purchased such best guns as an investment, they may wish to sell sooner than later.

Assuming there were a bridge across the Atlantic, the price of gasoline to drive your truck over and back would likely offset the savings.

I don't really follow the pricing of English doubles closely, but these prices are really eye opening. Have the prices of S X S accessories, such as l.o.m. and fitted cases followed suit?

the price of moon rocks is way down...course, once you add in the cost of getting them here, then good old nh granite is still the rock of choice...

now, if you happen to already have moon rocks, consider yourself lucky...there are somethings about moon rocks that make them highly desireable, when compared to out plan ole earth rocks...

Words of wisdom indeed, Eddie. RWTF

Then there is always a huckster who will try and sell you granite and tell you it's a moon rock

When I was importing from both Italy and Spain I always tried to have a shipment of 5 guns or more

The cost on a per gun for shipping, overseas broker fees and my brokers fees came out to $275/gun

The base cost for airline shipping was some what fixed. They had a minimum and adding more guns was only a small increase

John Boyd
Quality Arms

I would guess SKB and Others will be open to this opportunity

John Boyd
Quality Arms

Shipping jumped during Covid a lot. Container shipping has dropped partially back, but I doubt air freight or FedEx has.

Although I keep looking for an American double that really trips my trigger (pun intended), I keep finding English guns are better values. The recent trend in English gun prices has me hoping that I will find one more that will fit my list of specs. Just one more

an now what we need is to protect the value of our current supply of moon rocks...im talkin good old fashioned trump style import tarriffs on moon rocks...otherwise, the space pirates may figure out a way to somehow get more moon rocks here, directly from, well, duh moon...an dat would not be good for those of us who already have moon rock holdings...

an can you just image the turmoil it would cause, if some of those fresh moon rocks were discovered to carry the dreaded twb virus?

Fed-Ex has suspended their 023 heavy freight service. Which from my understanding, the definition of 023 is for firearms. So the last shipment I had brought in a few months ago had to fly American Airlines. That was more than double what usually Fed-Ex is.

Coming to America soon???????????

Everything I brought in was via air freight.

John Boyd
Quality Arms
Houston, TX

Same here.

Best,
Ted

Fed-Ex 023 is air freight.

I recently brought in an “antique” via FeDEx without issue but do not know if that has changed in the last couple months. And antiques are not guns from a certain viewpoint. I brought in another WR crab joint 12 bore which was easy to date to 1870. There is another one, WR Crab Jointed, in 14 gauge in the upcoming Holts auction I was thinking about bidding on. Just what I need is to start trying to load 14 gauge shells. But I’ve run a 25 straight in 10, 12, 16, 20, 24, 28, 32 and .410. That only leaves 14 and 18. I heard Lefever made 18s and Parker may have as well. But chances of finding one seem more remote than a 14.

WARNING: however derilict doublegons are imported across our open borders, let the buyer beware...there are those here an elsewhere that are after your bucks, without regard to your personal safety or financial well being...

its really quite simple to protect yourself from these charletans...just follow old ed's basic rule of doublegun safety...if there aint .090 or more of metal in front of the chambers...pick up yo money an run like hell..you are dealin with a dullard, are even worst, ah plan ole crook...

a good test of who you are dealing with, when considering any far in gun, is to ax the seller if you can bring the gun to a qualified american gunsmith for barrel safety testing...this often involves firing the disassembled barrels remotely, using winchester proof loads...if your seller balks at that, ax why...if he agrees, that is a sign of good faith and concern for your well being...if you git a positive response, it can be considered as unnecessary to actually subject the gun again to the stress of proof loads...

be careful out there...and remember the 90 30 rule for doublegon happiness...

Why would anyone let an unqualified person fire proof loads in your gun are you crazy tell me the name of a proof master or a functioning proof house in this country? and if a gun is in proof and reasonable condition why send it out ,also what if the barrels are .020 9 8nchces from the breach is that ok? Hukster trying to defend his patch!

well, there are a few custom gun builders that come to mind...they build up new sets of barrels from componets and proof those barrels before fitting...winchester proof loads have been a favorite for proofing barrels for some time now...

also, the point is, one does not necessarily need to proof guns to american specs...however, if your seller is confident enough to give permission to proof a gun, that is a good sign that you are dealing with a knowledgeable and honest person...

and if in fact a barrel has a minimum wall thickness of .020, that is reason enough to not buy the gun...in my opinion...

mc, you seem to take some interest in this topic...how come? as you are an unknown here, just wondering what is your role, besides looking to cause discord...

So if I buy a gun from you run proof loads and the frame cracks or barrels blow you will return money? What custom builders? Because you build guns doesn't mean you have the back ground to run proofs and analyze results because a gun don't blow up didn't mean it wasn't stressed to a dangerous condition what is anyone's role here the reason you are known is your a jerk

90. 30 where? What exactly do you mean?

mc, you answer my questions...an perhaps a may answer yours...

who are you and what is your interest in this topic?

Agree with K John

If you want to be in the old double game, either buy the proper tools and become proficient in using them, or find someone who is. Do not assume, or take the sellers word for anything. What is a few hundred dollar one time investment, when you are talking about buying guns which cost much greater than that? The guns on my gun room wall racks may only cost $500 to $15,000 but when you multiply them out for the grand total it becomes a lot of money. Bad barrels can drop a gun value by 90% or even make it worthless in many cases. The tools used to verify their conditions and safety will last decades so when you think about them they have measured more than a few hundred guns already. My cost per gun is very little for the tools I have bought. My barrel wall thickness and bore measuring tools cost me about $600.00, maybe nearer to a $1,000.00 when I think about duplicates and upgrades, so I understand not everyone needs to invest that much money, but you do need to find a gunsmith who has them and will carefully measure your guns and inform you if there is anything you need to be aware of or to fix before safely shooting your guns.

My guns are all shot, by me or my sons and friends and no gun gets used until I know as much about the safety to use it as I can learn. Chamber length, bore diameter, barrel wall thickness are all measured and verified before I ever drop a shell into any gun I own. Do not care if it is five year old, or 200 years old, they all get checked out just like they all get a proper cleaning when they come in the door. Anything that needs fixing gets fixed. My oldest muzzle loader is almost exactly 200 years old and it took three wood ducks two years ago. My 42's get regular use on dove and sporting clays. If I own it, it will be shot. Guns were made to be shot and enjoyed, not to be a status symbol or an investment. Mine might not get shot often because the field is crowded, but they all deserve their day in the sun.

Edd you are a troll huckster

UK auctions and maybe one day gun shops have long been a temptation for me and have resulted in five guns and a good many other toys making it to me.

I will be posting in the future about some great restocking work by Stephen Dalzell of a Boss SLE project gun I got from Holts.

Making that purchase is a gamble like any auction. You can mitigate the risks with knowledge, more so by having a contact there in the UK check out the item. You must be educated in evaluating and open to asking second opinions from others smarter than yourself.

While the exchange rate makes it look better, it really only shifts the break point a small bit.

The cost of importing can be $750-1000 a gun now. That alone makes most lower end guns become less of a deal.

Further the length of time on the import can stretch out some depending on timing. Government on both sides of the Atlantic are not user friendly to our hobby. The recent complications of commercial service providers adding to those challenges is disconcerting to enraging.

I see the auction buys I have made not bargain hunting, but finding something I wanted I could not find here. I doubt I will really make any money on my buys. I focus on mid range and above quality, and on something I really want, like an Irish made or Dublin sold gun, or a Celtic engraved Scottish 16ga pair.

Rave on. Amen.

Proof is not a thing here, ed. There is no “American” proof. Wall thickness has no bearing on proof, in countries that have proof law, ed. A gun with .020 wall is submitted for proof, and it passes, or doesn’t. Proof is not just jacking Winchester violent proof loads into a gun, and calling the gun proofed if it doesn’t fly apart when fired with that load. There is “view” where the gun is examined and measured prior to “firing” firing with proof loads, and “view” after proof. A gun can be failed at any or all of the three steps, ed.

It is against the law to sell a gun in England that is out of proof, ed.

mc isn’t unknown, ed.

Best,
Ted

Could not agree more. The only problem with having so many nice guns is making the opportunities to use them. It is this problem that will likely drive me to selling down some one day.

proof is a thing here...shotgun makers proof their barrels all the time,ted...

the three step process you describe makes sense...one would hope all doublegun barrel testers follow those steps, ted...

and its against the law to sell alotta things in england, ted...

as for mc, it is unknown to me, ted...

by the way. is your name really ted, ted...

ah ax because there are so many phonies here now, ted...

and there is much anger and rudeness here now, ted...

Name an American shotgun maker, ed. Describe, in detail, their method of proof, requirements, percentage of barrels proofed, failure rate, and anything else you care to mention.

I think you are going to be stuck at naming an American shotgun maker. There aren’t many, ed.

Oh, same name for a long, long, time now ed. Had it in common with my Dad.

As far as phonies, I’ve never posted on the internet that a glued stock or sleeved barrels were as good as new.

Those guys are phonies, ed.

Best,
Ted

Just to clarify on the subject of proof:

While there is no "proof law" in the USA, there are voluntary standards established by SAAMI. For example, while the maximum average service pressure for 2 3/4" 12ga loads is 11,500 psi, maximum average pressure for 2 3/4" 12ga proof loads is 19,000 psi.

Edd take all your guns and run 19000psi proof loads through them be for you sell them that's what your getting at correct.

mcc: here is what i am getting at..

requesting the proving of a gun is not the same thing as actually doing it...

making difficult requests is a valuable tool when qualifing the honesty and knowledge of an individual, of whom, you have little or no knowledge...

Says the torch master...

Who also doesn't offer a 3 day inspection...

Pure hukster gibberish

Still no inspection period...

battle, give it up...you and i will never do bidness, so watt the point?

Why don’t you guys take this crappola off line. That’s a request not a question.

eeb, we havin fun here...aint you?

You are correct Ed. We will never do any kind of business. But you continue to make statements like this (below), but still the purchase is left to the buyer, You wash your hands after monies have exchanged.


ed good
Sidelock
*
E
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 8,919
Likes: 59
nh mostly
WARNING: however derilict doublegons are imported across our open borders, let the buyer beware...there are those here an elsewhere that are after your bucks, without regard to your personal safety or financial well being...

its really quite simple to protect yourself from these charletans...just follow old ed's basic rule of doublegun safety...if there aint .090 or more of metal in front of the chambers...pick up yo money an run like hell..you are dealin with a dullard, are even worst, ah plan ole crook...

a good test of who you are dealing with, when considering any far in gun, is to ax the seller if you can bring the gun to a qualified american gunsmith for barrel safety testing...this often involves firing the disassembled barrels remotely, using winchester proof loads...if your seller balks at that, ax why...if he agrees, that is a sign of good faith and concern for your well being...if you git a positive response, it can be considered as unnecessary to actually subject the gun again to the stress of proof loads...

you omitted the rest of it...care to do the right and honorable thing, or must i?

silence from battle...figures...

here is the rest of it...

requesting the proving of a gun is not the same thing as actually doing it...

making difficult requests is a valuable tool when qualifing the honesty and knowledge of an individual, of whom, you have little or no knowledge...

oh, and by the way battle...just curious, as you are an unknown, no name here...who are you and what are you? and what is your interest in all of this?

Edd,,,what are you a cop

This part... ?

"be careful out there...and remember the 90 30 rule for doublegon happiness..."

That is irrelevant. Has nothing to do if you offer a inspection period.

You are wrong. Here is the exact statement you made....


ed good
Sidelock
*
E
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 8,924
Likes: 60
nh mostly
WARNING: however derilict doublegons are imported across our open borders, let the buyer beware...there are those here an elsewhere that are after your bucks, without regard to your personal safety or financial well being...

its really quite simple to protect yourself from these charletans...just follow old ed's basic rule of doublegun safety...if there aint .090 or more of metal in front of the chambers...pick up yo money an run like hell..you are dealin with a dullard, are even worst, ah plan ole crook...

a good test of who you are dealing with, when considering any far in gun, is to ax the seller if you can bring the gun to a qualified american gunsmith for barrel safety testing...this often involves firing the disassembled barrels remotely, using winchester proof loads...if your seller balks at that, ax why...if he agrees, that is a sign of good faith and concern for your well being...if you git a positive response, it can be considered as unnecessary to actually subject the gun again to the stress of proof loads...

be careful out there...and remember the 90 30 rule for doublegon happiness...

I been here a lot longer than you have. I was here on the old forum with the likes of jOe(who is here) and Klunkermeister(rip). My interest is double guns. My interest also is how you run your mouth about how to be careful with guns especially imported. But here you are not standing by what you're peddling. No inspection period...

You're the one buyers should be made aware of...

Unlike you Ed, battle is a man of principle, and I have happily purchased a couple of guns from him that were excellent opportunities, unlike you and yours.

You are a coward that can't face up to having your own spotlight turned back on you. "Huckster" is gift. You are far worse than that.

That only leaves you 4G and 8G for your CV..?

well X aka battle...the rest of hit agin...

requesting the proving of a gun is not the same thing as actually doing it...

making difficult requests is a valuable tool when qualifing the honesty and knowledge of an individual, of whom, you have little or no knowledge...

well X aka battle, it aint how long you been here, but how you present yourself...you regularly disrepect this forum with your nasty insults and hostility towards me...it dont bodder me...i survived dave k and keet...you got nuttin even close to those creatures...thing is, some of the rest of the members of this forum do not care to be burdened with hearing about your unhappiness.

as an unknown, we no not who you are and what you are...and from the content of your demenor on just this thread along, you sound like an angery, rude creature, who has few outlets to express its unhappiness with the world...and has chosen to make this fine forum a place to vent...

well X aka battle: you seem to repeating yourself, so will i...

in my gun dealing business i do not usually offer an inspection period...i will usually accept returns...fact is, i cannot remember the last time i had a request to accept a return...

Well if you don't offer return why bother

mcc: gee mc what makes you think i dont offer return? which i do...do you spend any time or money on gunbroker?

tell us more about yourself, so we can all get to know you and why you are here...

Name one insult I made to you or anyone else in this thread?

And you say " I do not usually offer an inspection period". So you like to keep your buyers in the dark?

Also in this thread, just because you can make accusations about me doesn't mean they are accurate.

But you will always be the master of torch...

X aka battle, my sifting thru your posts here looking for your comments that i consider as insults would be a non productive use of my time...

in the interest of harmony, lets agree to ignore each other...i will refrain from commenting on your post and you do like wise...deal?

Edd are you a cop

[quote=ed good]X aka battle, my sifting thru your posts here looking for your comments that i consider as insults would be a non productive use of my time...

in the interest of harmony, lets agree to ignore each other...i will refrain from commenting on your post and you do like wise...deal?[/quote


No you can choose to ignore all you like. This is an open forum and I'll decide to post a comment or not.

Torch master Ed.

battle, ok but pls be more civil and less nasty...

Ja, Der Meister auf der Flammenwerfern!! Der Fuchs!!!!

A and S Auction Waco has a pair of Boss 1900 during th October auction Summer engraved look right.Also Frank Main Canadian Boswell # 1 gun made in Canada with London
trained smiths.Also Fox A 16 28inch bbls.And for you that like SA's a Cole Agee engraved cattle brand 45 it right looked at the gun in the 1980 per Jinks Howard.SxS'S from a bird hunter Dr. estate
.working from a kindle fire