Any guesses as to maker? I haven’t seen the proof marks, but it appears to be an Beesley action extractor but with a Deeley latch.
Dumoulin or Bury? Would either maker use a Deeley latch instead of an Anson fore end?
Best Regards,
JBP

In that German market they may. I believe wrist is broken on that one it caught my eye also.

I found an identical one peddled in Britain also but not with that latch and much more expensive.

Any idea who made the one you came upon in England?
JBP

Maybe Le Forgeron if not the others you mentioned? His name shows up on German and Austrian sidelock offerings. I’m just guessing haven’t found good nailed down comparison pics.

If we could see the standing breech or any maker's mark, the pool of Liège talented mechanics could be narrowed.


http://littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20e%20f/a%20forgeron%20gb.htm

http://littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20b/a%20bury%20gb.htm


http://littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20s/a%20scholberg%20paul%20gb.htm

http://littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20s/a%20schlemmer%20prosper%20gb.htm

And Prosper Schlemmer might be the culprit??

Serbus,


Raimey
rse

http://littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20b/a%20bernard%20gb.htm

Emil Bernard & Cie turned out a few too.


Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Subject



Forgeron

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Subject





Scholberg



Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Subject






Sempert & Krieghoff just to keep things lively.


Serbus,

Raimey
rse

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forum...mp;Words=pegs&Search=true#Post327989

You might want to sift thru the above or consider a fake sideplate?

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Barella


Britte finished by SDH-MT


Christophe

I realize that these may have Belgian origins.

I'd guess the following Mainwarings to have similar component configurations:




Just a copy from the thread....



Subject.....

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Ah,
But yet to see a Beesley action on any of those makers examples….

Subject.....

Like this Mr. Beesley???










Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Hard to read , but is that a Defourney?

No, that is a bona fide F. Beesley currently up for auction.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

More photos- any idea who made it ?
Beesley self opener now fitted with Krupp Extractor barrels!?

More photos to come

Barrel flats of new Krupp barrels.

Nice lumber but crack at end of top tang- appears to be solid repair.

Who made this gun????
Thank you for any insight you can provide,
Best Regards,
JBP

Last photo

It appears to be a montage of Belgian & German mechanic efforts. A Gesteck / parts kit was sourced from Liège, then Krupp tubes were added & finished in Suhl, Germany in 1931. Some of that British Chicken-Scratching obscures the original marks and I for one would say it is a Cardinal Sin to do so but the Birmingham(Guardians) proofmasters, along with the Worshipful Company of Gunmakers, are quite pompous and tend to suggest that only their marks are proper & apply.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

This gun just confuses me…
We appear to have a Belgian made ( Guild or by a known maker?),
action that was built on a relatively “ difficult “ to make ( or at least difficult to perfectly regulate) Purdey patent ( purchased from Beesley),——that then incorporated an extractor forearm, and barrels that sourced and proofed in Germany— ( why not an ejector forearm, a gun of this quality would “ normally “ be built as an ejector)— and the winds up in the Birmingham proof house ( and purchased by a Brit ? ) .
It seems odd that a gunmaker would choose to cobble together a upper end combination of action , wood , engraving, and fitting, and then bow to use an extractor rather than ejector.
The barrels and for end are clearly of German design and added later as the engraving ( scroll work) do not match at the junction of the forearm/ bottom of receiver. ( see my original post third photo).

Was this gun purchased in Europe and subsequently landed in England to be proofed in order to allow re sale?

Guns original barrels were damaged and the Krupp barrels are a replacement ( they are fitted perfectly).?

I just don’t get why a parts supplier would use a Beesley action rather than the simpler H&H action.

Best Regards,
JBP

I'd like to see a foto of the marks higher on the tubes towards the forend hanger.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

I would say it was a War trophy taken home to the UK.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Times were tough in 1931 & maybe they were cobbling anything & everything just to get some bread money.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Photo request:

I don’t believe your typical English soldier was permitted to return from the battle with firearms.

Only citizen soldiers could do that.

Best,
Ted

It could be someone wanted a purdey action gun at a lower price and no ejectors would also add to my theory.it could have been an English man without deep pockets hard to tell,also if a small rural English gunmaker uses outside workers to complete the gun ?is it a " guild gun"

The Brits had Ferlach, issuing House numbers for makers after WWII and the fire bombing efforts. So, just like American GIs, I do not see why War Trophy guns were not brought home them passed to the appropriate proof facility to be compliant. Prove me wrong, Please.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Since the tubes & water-table wear the same serial number, I would say it was cobbled together in the early 1930s and that the Krupp tubes are original for that serial number sequence. I will work on the worn German marks but I do not see any that would pair with the Belgian Perron, etc on the water-table.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Not sure who exactly who commissioned the longarm, or the prime contractor that had the umbrella for the subs, but just like below, the probability is very, very high that ole Master Mechanic Maximilian Doerr performed the heavy lifting on the tubeset knitting.



https://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=616830

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

It almost looks like ejector cuts on the knuckle ,purdey type a better picture would help ,but if it was a cobbled together gun from existing parts it may never had ejectors.i know I would enjoy that gun just like it is.

Ahah,
Sidelocks removed and voila- maker revealed!
Any information on this Belgian builder?



Any leads greatly appreciated!
Best Regards,
JBP

That could be just the lock maker

You’re right , I found the following, penned by a member here (Gettamens) from Belgium:

“ I had the intention to write an article on Nicolas Jacquet who was a lockmaker living in a little town (Cheratte) nearby Li�ge and was the lockmaker for most of the Li�ge artisan“

The search continues as to maker…..

Latest hidden mark under receiver-
Any clues as to maker here?


Best Regards,
JBP

Emile Warnant?

Emile Warnant et Cie. (1905-1911)
Locks - Nicolas Jacquet https://wp.me/p461yQ-4OE

I also think about Ernest Wilmart .
Cheers, Marc.

Hi Marc, Wilmart brothers were a typical Liege "fabricants". I'm not sure Warnant differed from them in this sensem, but the stigma I think belongs to the company Emile Warnant et Cie (Emile Warnant & Co)

As the tubes were assembled in 1931 , I would think that the gun would not have been made during the noted dates ( 1905-1911) , for Emile Warnant en Cie - ???

The date of manufacture and the date of testing aren't the same thing. Apparently the shotgun was imported into Germany and then received German marks of 1931, if that's what you mean

Seems odd that a gun manufactured by a company that dissolved in 1911 would not have the proof done until 20 years later… I wonder if the leftover / but unfinished receiver portion was purchased by some independent gunmaker (from E.Warnant et Cie), and subsequently finished by adding the German tubes and forend after arriving in Germany ?
I know E.Warnant made guns for Bodson- and I see Griffin and Howe have a Bodson self opener ( Beesley-Purdey patent) on their site.
Thank you for the information.
Best Regards,
JBP

Sorry, I'll repeat it again. Visible Liegee proof marks was placed on the gun tested as an assembly. If they aren`t on the barrels, then the barrel block were not made in Liege. It could be made in Germany at any time. This pair of barrels isn`t native if don`t have Liege proof marks.

Alain Daubresse (littlegun.be) correctly wrote that the stamp "E.W. under crown" belonged to Emile Warnant, but unfortunately he doesn`t see that the stamp "E.W. under star" is another stamp. The stamp "E.W. under star" belonged to Eugene and Ernest Wilmart.

So , the noted image under the action

E.W. Co. ( no star or crown )

is the mark for Emile Warnant et Cie. ?

which produced the gun between 1905-1911

is this your contention?

If we are talking about the pre-war period, let's say about 1910, then according to the available information, there was company Emile Warnant et Cie and there was company Ernest Wilmart et Cie. In the gun trade was the first company, the second traded in marble. In Liege were no other companies whose stamp could be EW Co, of course, if we believe Druart and Gadisseur. Therefore, a guarantee close to 100% could be given if the production date of the shotgun was known (the proofing date in Germany isn`t like that).