After Drew Hause posted the data on the shell pressures and load information for Super X Foxes and cartridges, I got thinking about what I had to try to duplicate things. I also wanted to see about loading Bismuth shot and so I looked at the Hodgdon data. Looking at that data I saw they recommended using the WWAA12R wad for a 1&1/4 ounce load (SuperX). I got one of those out of the bag and tried to fill it with 1 &1/4 ounce, measured by volume, of #4 shot. It doesn't fit in, nor does 7&1/2, interesting to me. I don't yet have the Longshot powder required for that load so I moved to the Black Powder load. I found a Federal paper hull and poured in 80 grains of FF then seated an over powder wad(.08) and a cushion wad 3/8" thick and then dropped in 1&1/4 ounces of #4s. I put it on my MEC and it crimped perfectly. I was reading that because Black Powder ignites faster than smokeless that this load will have some pretty stout recoil? I'm not sure I want to test it.

I'm going to jump back to that WAA12R wad that is supposed to hold up to 1&3/8 ounces of shot. If 1&1/4 won't fit what is going on? I also have the Remington RP12 that is also in the Bismuth data and while I didn't try filling it, it appears capable of taking the 1&1/4 ounces of shot. I don't understand the WWAA12R? Also, if I'm correct, weight for weight Bismuth takes up more space than Lead. Any thoughts? Thank you.

Bismuth has lower density than lead, thus the same weight occupies more volume.
Many published loads use wads that don't completely protect the shot column.

Black powder is more of a "shove" instead of the "punch" of smokeless.

Recoil is subjective, but unless the gun is very light or there are health issues involved the load of 80 grs of FF and 1 1/4 oz of shot shouldn't be too bad.

I routinely shoot 1 oz of shot and 80-100 grs of FF for cowboy shooting (CZ Bobwhite G2, factory pad) and I often use a 10 gauge with 120 grs of FF and 1 1/2 oz of shot. That's a firm shove, but not painful. I will note that the 10 gauge weighs 12 1/2 pounds and has a oversized recoil pad. I have had several women cowboy shooters volunteer to shoot the 10 gauge and I got big smiles out of all of them and no complaints about recoil. One woman said it kicked LESS than her 20 gauge (Stoeger or Stevens) with factory ammo

Chantry, thanks for the reassurance. I may wait till I'm shooting at a crow or rabbit so as to apply the formula that says when doing so recoil is less noticeable than when shooting a pattern board.

The WWAA12R wad is a 1 1/8 oz wad, but because it is short in the crush section it can be loaded with heavier payloads. The wad sits deeper in the shell and the shot fills the space past the petals. I used quite a few of these wads back in the 70's when Remington's target shell was the All American. This shell took a 209 primer and had a very high base wad. That shell could be loaded many times and was very efficient with powder. I hated to see them discontinued. There are lead loads that use this wad with 1 1/2 ounces of shot. It all depends on the internal volume of the shell and the density of the powder.

tank, I did compare the Remington RP12 with the WAA12R and noticed the crusher portion was the same length, but the RP12 had a longer shot cup. I have reloaded shotshells for years and I remember way back, thinking that the data was an almost bizarre array of elements requiring a cosmic like alignment of components found and purchased. Having a bunch of spent hulls could often be the beginning of a futile search for matching wads, powder, and primer to attempt to make the desired loading. Now after all these years I find out that Winchester makes a (currently ClayBuster)wad for a 1&3/8 ounce load that is purposed because the bottom of the wad offers the clearance, and for some unknown reason they made the shot cup too short! As you say it was a wad intended for 1&1/8 ounce loads. And I feel like I'm the one trying to be too economical when it is Winchester being a cheapskate. I did a search of Hodgdon data for Winchester, Remington, and Federal hulls, and they, at least, offer no current loads with the WAA12R. I'll have to go back and check the CB wad. Maybe tomorrow I'll look in my old manual to see how it might otherwise be used. I am thinking of making some Bismuth loads using it.