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Posted By: Drew Hause "Advent Of The Small Bore Gun" - 06/21/22 05:14 PM
There were notices in spring issues of Breeder & Sportsman regarding a Parker Bros. publication
https://archive.org/details/breedersportsma651914sanf/page/n180/mode/1up?view=theater

which then appeared in the October 3, 1914 issue
https://archive.org/details/breedersportsma651914sanf/page/n225/mode/1up?view=theater

It appears to be an abbreviated version of Parker Brothers' “The Small Bore Shotgun” which was published c. 1915
http://parkerguns.org/pages/PDF%20Documents/Small%20Bore%20Shotgun.pdf

Edwin Hedderly had published his first of many articles promoting small bores (and Parkers) in Forest Stream, December 26, 1908 “Twenty Bores for Duck Shooting”
https://books.google.com/books?id=ejQevDPMUIYC&pg=PA1018&vq

Nov. 13, 1909, “Small-bore Guns”
https://books.google.com/books?id=l0kcAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA790&lpg

A few more
Arms & The Man 1915, “Loading Small-Bores”
https://books.google.com/books?id=BX07AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA158&lpg

Recreation 1917, “Handloading for Small-Bore Guns”
https://books.google.com/books?id=4uVQAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA97&lpg

Outdoor Recreation 1919, “Loading Small-Bores”
https://books.google.com/books?id=BX07AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA158&lpg

Field & Stream, Nov. 1921, “Sixteen” – Or “Twenty” Which
https://books.google.com/books?id=UPtAAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA704&lpg

and

T.H. Grant, Forest & Stream, December 1915
https://books.google.com/books?id=lRMcAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA711&lpg

Forest & Stream, Nov. 1918 “Keener sport with the 20 gauge gun”
https://books.google.com/books?id=b91JAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA663&lpg

Outers’ Recreation, July 1921 “Seventy Years Experience With 20 Gauge Guns”
https://books.google.com/books?id=hns7AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA76&lpg
Posted By: Parabola Re: "Advent Of The Small Bore Gun" - 06/21/22 07:37 PM
It goes waay further back than that.

Purple Heather,m writing in 1891 in “Something about Guns and Shooting” at page 13:-

“My first game gun was a double-barrelled muzzle-loader by old Sam Nock. This was a “joint-stock affair” for my brother was to be allowed the use of it too. The gauge was 16, barrels 30 inches in length, known as the best “stub-twist”, weight between 6 1/2 and 6 3/4 lb. Young as I was never felt any great inconvenience for carrying it of a day, as long as there was something to shoot at.”

At page 26, in the early 1860’s his brother having taken the Nock abroad he is given a genuine Joe Manton ( some 30 years after the death of that great Gunmaker).

“I had never, hitherto, seen a double gun of so small a bore, and so light a weight.

The gauge was 22, and the gun weighed 6 1/4lbs.”

Bought from Whistlers in the Stand, converted from flint to percussion, 32 inch barrels. Case with 3/4 or 7/8 oz. Shot flask and 2 1/4, 2 1/2 and 2 3/4 dram powder flak.

“After carrying out a series of trials I discovered that 2 1/4 dr. Was the best charge of powder, and there was not much to chose between 3/4 oz and the 7/8 oz of shot. As to the size of the shot No. 7 decidedly suited best. It shot fairly well with No. 6; indifferently with No. 5; extremely well with No. 4.”

“With No. 7 I often killed partridges at distances between forty and fifty yards, but very rarely over fifty”
Posted By: Argo44 Re: "Advent Of The Small Bore Gun" - 06/21/22 09:03 PM
Parabola is right and the origin of the small bore certainly goes back to Joseph Manton. This article in the 15 Feb 1879 edition of "Illustrated Sporting and Dramatic News" mentions a Reilly 20 bore that that was one of "Wildfowler"'s favorites (referenced in the Reilly history)... but it makes clear that Manton was at the origin of the idea.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Posted By: Drew Hause Re: "Advent Of The Small Bore Gun" - 06/21/22 10:32 PM
Understood gentlemen, but I think we need to grant Parker Bros. some jounalistic license regarding their small bore marketing campaign.
By 1914, with the cooperation of Bro. Hedderly (editor of Western Field starting in July 1910), Parker had been aggressively promoting small bores for waterfowl for > 5 years; and declared themselves "the pioneer makers in America" of the 20 bore in the May 1916 Forest & Stream
https://books.google.com/books?id=VN1JAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA974&lpg

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

They were still offering the 20 bore booklet in 1921
July 1921 Outers' Recreation
https://books.google.com/books?id=hns7AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA86&lpg

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]
Posted By: DAM16SXS Re: "Advent Of The Small Bore Gun" - 06/22/22 02:12 PM
And Parker Bros. made 5 SBT's in twenty bore.
Posted By: Daryl Hallquist Re: "Advent Of The Small Bore Gun" - 06/22/22 02:19 PM
I have a matched pair of .410 muzzleloading shotguns that I assume were from the 1850s.
Posted By: Daryl Hallquist Re: "Advent Of The Small Bore Gun" - 06/22/22 02:19 PM
I have a matched pair of .410 muzzleloading shotguns that I assume were from the 1850s.
Posted By: Drew Hause Re: "Advent Of The Small Bore Gun" - 06/22/22 03:48 PM
The DuPont Shooting School at Atlantic City limited guns to 20g, and Ithaca made at least 1 20g SBT for the school.
From the May 1917 Outdoor Life

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]
Posted By: Drew Hause Re: "Advent Of The Small Bore Gun" - 06/22/22 06:04 PM
Hedderly promoting the 28g in Western Field October-November 1911; "The Gnat Gun Does Good"
https://books.google.com/books?id=7SQPAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA485&dq
There is an image one page back of Hedderly with a 28g Parker
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=597585&page=3

Each subsequent issue has another "The Small-Bore Shotgun" article if you want to scroll down.

Part 14
https://books.google.com/books?id=7SQPAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA519&dq
Part 15
https://books.google.com/books?id=7SQPAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA137&dq
Part 16
https://books.google.com/books?id=7SQPAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA212&dq
Part 17
https://books.google.com/books?id=7SQPAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA310&dq
Part 18
https://books.google.com/books?id=7SQPAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA411&dq

Ad for 20g Parkers January 1912
https://books.google.com/books?id=7SQPAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA183&dq

He was still at it in the September, 1912 issue, Part XXIII - A "Twenty-Gauge de-Luxe"
Posted By: Researcher Re: "Advent Of The Small Bore Gun" - 06/22/22 06:15 PM
By the 1880 Union Metallic Cartridge Co. catalog, they were offering paper cases in 8-, 10-, 12-, 14-, 16- & 20-gauge.
Posted By: Parabola Re: "Advent Of The Small Bore Gun" - 06/23/22 07:30 PM
Gene,
Close to the top of my list of guns I should never have sold is a little E.M. Reilly Damascus Barrelled early A and D (single hook lump, round cocking levers, top doll head bite only) 20 bore double.
I later found out that Edwinson Green had converted it to Ejector in the 1930’s when it was about 50 years old.
I just hope that its later custodians made better use of it than I would have done.
Posted By: Argo44 Re: "Advent Of The Small Bore Gun" - 06/23/22 08:54 PM
Interesting sounding gun Parabola. Do you happen to recall the serial number?

Not to divert another line to my history but this .410 SxS side lever hammer gun is the one Reilly I should have gone after. SN was 25851, early 1884. I seem to recall 28" barrels.

https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/shotguns/reilly-em/hammer/410-gauge/side-lever-180723174108286
Beautifully scaled little 410 hammer-gun ( collectors piece ), reproofed 2007 and very rarely fired since ! bores in particularly good condition , unusual to find a 410 with Damascus barrels -- top rib reads E M Reilly & Co 16 New Oxford Street, London & RUE SCRIBE PARIS . metric bore measurement 10.50mm in both tubes and estimated chokes LH 1/4 RH 1/8 with the chambers being 2 1/2"


[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Posted By: keith Re: "Advent Of The Small Bore Gun" - 06/24/22 08:55 AM
Originally Posted by Drew Hause
Understood gentlemen, but I think we need to grant Parker Bros. some jounalistic license regarding their small bore marketing campaign.

No Preacher, we don't "need to grant Parker Bros. some jounalistic license regarding their small bore marketing campaign."

The "advent of the small bore gun" happened long before Parker Bros. Gun Co. was founded in 1867. To suggest that they were responsible for the birth of small bore shotguns is totally incorrect. It is the same sort of false and misleading information as your assertions that small bore Ithaca Flues guns and Fox guns have some factory design defect that makes them prone to frame cracking.

We have quite enough Fake News in our world without bringing it to the Doublegunshop forum too. Before Parker Bros. existed, there were pinfire shotguns and shells produced in 16, 18, 20, 24, and 28 gauge. There were even .360 bore pinfire shotguns. Small bore guns were in use long before there were self-contained cartridges. There were small bore flintlock fowlers, and it wouldn't surprise me to learn that there were small bore wheellocks and matchlock guns preceding those. Here's a pic of a .410 pinfire shell, circa 1857.

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
Posted By: Drew Hause Re: "Advent Of The Small Bore Gun" - 06/27/22 10:21 PM
I must assume your hatred blinded you to the QUOTATION MARKS in the title of this thread William.
The " " indicates the title of the pamphlet published by Parker Bros., which I thought some here would find interesting, along with Parker's marketing of small bore guns.

But let me help.
If for instance your double gun maker of interest published an ad which states "The Finest Gun In The World" (Breeder & Sportsman 9-24-1892), the quotation marks indicate this was an assertion by Lefever, not the person providing the quotation.

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]

Likewise, Parker Bros. claimed to be the "Best Gun Made" in 1893 (note the quotation marks), which does not mean they were

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]
Posted By: Drew Hause Re: "Advent Of The Small Bore Gun" - 07/16/22 12:11 PM
At least Fox had the journalistic integrity to put their claim in quotation marks smile

October 7, 1905 Sporting Life
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collection/p17103coll17/id/36558/rec/1

[Linked Image from photos.smugmug.com]
Posted By: Drew Hause Re: "Advent Of The Small Bore Gun" - 07/16/22 12:18 PM
More on the small bore gun; from Capt. Charles Askins' and E.M. Sweeley's “Ballistics of the Shotgun” series in Outdoor Life
June, 1921 “Killing Range of the 20 Gauge”
https://archive.org/details/sim_outdoor-life_1921-06_47_6/page/386/mode/2up

January 1923 “Developing A Duck Load In The 20 Bore”
https://archive.org/details/sim_outdoor-life_1923-01_51_1/page/30/mode/2up

February. “Duck Loads in the 20 Bore II”
https://archive.org/details/sim_outdoor-life_1923-02_51_2/page/112/mode/2up

August 1922, “20 & 28 Gauge Pressures and Velocities”
https://archive.org/details/sim_outdoor-life_1922-08_50_2/page/120/mode/2up

20 gauge with DuPont Bulk. Plus 10 - 14%
7/8 oz.
2 1/4 Dr. Eq. = 10,550 psi
2 1/2 Dr. Eq. = 11,715 psi
1 oz.
2 1/4 Dr. Eq. = 12,029 psi
2 1/2 Dr. Eq. = 13,373 psi

28 gauge
5/8 oz. 2 Dr. Eq. = 8,714 psi
3/4 oz. 2 Dr. Eq. = 10,259 psi
3/4 oz. 2 1/8 Dr. Eq. = 10,998 psi
7/8 oz. 2 Dr. Eq. = 12,387 psi
Posted By: Drew Hause Re: "Advent Of The Small Bore Gun" - 07/16/22 05:26 PM
Outdoor Life July 1923 “Progressive Powders in the 20 Bore”
https://archive.org/details/sim_outdoor-life_1923-07_52_1/page/52/mode/2up
DuPont No. 93 Progressive Burning Powder (which became DuPont Oval) in the 20g Super-X 1 oz. load with No. 7 1/2 shot 9,184 psi;
No. 8 shot = 9856 psi + 10-14%
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