Just received a 16G Manufrance Robust from Simpsons. This is my first 16 SxS and 4th SxS from them. I've learned a lot from this site so when it came up I gave it 24hrs so I wasn't too impulsive then bit. I'm happy with it, although the butt-plate is from an FN Browning A5. Its a 65mm but should be ok with the same shells I shoot in my Browning A5 16-65. Double proofed to 11000 kilos. full and modified. SN is 144783. Its marked No26 and 220 and ROBUST on the bottom outside of the receiver. I know terrible to date but any thoughts on what year its from?

It looks good, sorry I can't help with the dating. Do you mind if I ask how Simpson is on the accuracy of their condition descriptions? Thanks and best to you.

I think the Manufrance guns can be accurately dated from the model number. I’m not the guy who can do that, however. My suggestion would be light loads, none of those 1 1/4 Oz 16 gauge things they sell, and I would expect it will be a wonderful little bird gun. Looks to have been choked mod and full when it was new.
Is the retractable sling still present in the butt stock? Not my favorite French sling, but, handy if you need to free up your hands to work the dog, or if you have called it a day, hopefully with a brace in the bag, and need to walk back to the truck.

Enjoy.

Best,
Ted

Robust SN database is Lost. However, 26/220 model is dated to 1931.

Nice find. I have one of the last year Robusts in 12ga, it doesn't have the step in the barrel. I bought it as a wreck, fixed it up and use it as a waterfowl hunting rig when I leave the hammer guns in the truck.

According to Mournetas's book Le Fusil Robust, 1931 lists 26/220. The 220 was each year afterwards to 1940, but no longer carried the dual designation of 220 and 26. Just under a million were made in all models and grades from inception in 1913 until 1980. Gil

gls, ah don git hit...to hep me under stand, watt wood be the date codes fur a gons made in 19 an 13...an 1980?

Thanks for the info! Still has the sling. its in nice shape. buckle has the SN on it. I've got Kent game bore 1oz and ARMUSA 1oz 65mm shells for my old Browning that I will also use in the Robust. Just didn't want a 16 SxS that needed 65mm AND RST low pressure shells.

Looks like a nicely finished gun in the pics! Enjoy .

According to the information I have, what used to be called double proof is now called triple proof, with the proofmark repeated 3 times. If your gun dates from the 30's, then that's not 11,000 kilos . . . but still a very stout proof at 18,000 psi. The Robust is more or less the Stevens 311 of France in terms of numbers produced . . . but much higher quality. Very solid guns. "Robust" is a well-chosen name.

No proof house marks on that one, Larry. Manufrance was allowed to proof their own firearms at a few points in history. A few of the French guys have posted that it was equivalent to proof at the official proof house, but, I don’t know the numbers. The exact, same gun will sometimes be seen with the word “Costo” on it, instead of “Robust”. Same gun. Same manufacturer.

Best,
Ted

Do the two "palm fronds" next to "Acier Hercule" mean double proof? I've seen pictures of three palm fronds on Darne before. What does 1100 kilos stand for? im curious because I know of a 20G "French" SxS at a LGS that I will look at next week. Ive got 65mm 16's on hand but a 65mm 20 gauge is a different situation and I would probably want to get it lengthened.

A proof pressure of 1100 kg/cm2 = 15,646 psi, for a service load pressure of about 10,000 psi
The pressure numbers were however obtained using lead crushers, and pressure derived by modern piezo transducers would be 10-14% higher.

I would be very cautious about lengthening the chambers of a light weight continental 20g, and then only by an expert like Dean Harris at Skeets Gun Shop
Tahlequah, OK
918-456-4749

regarding lengthening the chambers...why the vague caution? either there is enough metal there or not...i like .090 in front of chambers...what say you?

The OPs gun is a 16 Drew, not a 20.

The further I get down the road of life, the more French guns I see. What I haven’t seen on that road is a FRENCH gun, with FRENCH proof that suffers from thin walls. Quite the opposite, typically.

They might be out there. But, they ain’t running around in bunches.

The rest of the stuff, off the continent, I have no clue.


Best,
Ted

the two fronds on the barrel flats are not proof marks...they are in-house MF quality marks. most of the french makers utilize a similar marking system that denotes the quality of the gun...poincons on darnes, rabbits/swallows, etc....any symbol that is repeated is likely to be makers quality marks. this gun has only single proof marks...they are repeated on the barrel flats and the water table....the arrow through the bullseye target attended by the PT is the standard MF proof...PT is the post 1900 smokeless powder used in the proofing process. it may be shown one, two, or three times, thus indicating the level of proof.


but as doc drew shows (and ted attests to) the standard (single mark) french proof is a substantial test, and will provide a gun able to tolerate any reasonable load intended for a gun of the weight of these hunter's guns.

best regards,

tom

I would not bother lengthening the chambers. It's easy enough to work up light 3/4 oz target loads using standard American 2 3/4" hulls. Pressures will be well below that of a gun that has passed French proof. If you're planning on hunting with the gun, I'd just buy 2 1/2" RST's for that, or else something like the Gamebore British 2 1/2" loads.

While I don't have the experience Ted does, the dozen or so Manufrance Ideals that I have owned or handled ALL had barrels that would more than handle any load you wanted to fire off in a gun of that weight. Didn't matter if they showed single, double or triple proofs.

In reference to this
I know of a 20G "French" SxS at a LGS that I will look at next week. Ive got 65mm 16's on hand but a 65mm 20 gauge is a different situation and I would probably want to get it lengthened.

I only have end-of-chamber wall thickness for one French gun
1950s Verney Carron 12b., 2 5/8" chambers: 0.100"

For interest - 4 Francottes
Francotte (1938) 12b., 2 5/8" chambers: 0.098"
Francotte (1894-5) 12b., 2.5" chambers: 0.085"
Francotte (1896) 12b., 2.5" chambers: 0.085"
Francotte (1930) 20b., 2.5" chambers: 0.095"

Possibly those with experience with French guns could share the end-of-chamber numbers

Sorry I muddied the water with mention of another different shotgun. I looked at it today. A 20 gauge Helice. I will post about it separately. I did not buy it but took some photos. I hate dark gunshops! Trying to edit the photos now.

I figured we were just going to talk about the gun we had photos and a description of. Sorry.

Drew, there are three French guns here in the safe, and I have the numbers from a gun I recently sold. The gun that was sold is interesting, because somebody who owned it, prior to me, had it backbored and the chokes opened. It still had .050 wall thickness everywhere from 9” to the end of the muzzles, except where it had .060, down near the chokes.Herve’ Bruchet remarked that their favorite guns to own had heavy wall barrels, and, in spite of the backbone (he was not a believer, by the way) there was plenty of wall left, good thing, as there were three pimple bulges, too, which, didn’t really seem to hurt anything, save putting the final nail in the coffin of it being out of proof. The other three guns here, all have barrel wall thickness of at least .050 at the 9” point from the breech. One has a minimum of .060 wall everywhere, and it is remarkable as a fairly heavy Darne Halifax 12 with 28” tubes. I believe the bore has been tampered with on a 20 gauge Darne I own, and the wall thickness on this one is also .050 at the same point.

After I get a measurement like that in a few spots on the gun, I quit measuring. I did own a very early MacNaughton boxlock that passed reproof with wall thickness of about .022, if memory serves, but, I usually like to see more if I am going to have to feed a gun American spec ammunition.

Best,
Ted

I'm so glad you purchased this gun because I was sorely tempted. Hopefully, it works out great for you!