https://www.liveauctioneers.com/ite...barrelled-pinfire-sporting-gun-by-manton

A 20-BORE DOUBLE BARRELLED PINFIRE SPORTING GUN BY MANTON, 29.25inch sighted damascus barrels, border and scroll engraved rotary under lever action signed MATON, half stocked with chequered fore-end and wrist, border and scroll engraved steel mounts, serial no. 6324.

Pretty gun but, according to what I've been led to believe, not a true Joe Manton gun. If I am incorrect in believing that Joseph Manton guns are always marked "Joseph Manton" or "J Manton" I would appreciate correction.

Joseph Manton died in. 1835. He went bankrupt in 1826 and Lang bought his gun inventory at that time. He was released from debtors prison in 1831 and went into business with his son making guns. After his death in 1835 the business persisted for several years. But I don’t recall much in guns made after 1838. There were multiple attempts to cash in on the Manton name by others for a very long time. Many guns made for export to India were marked Manton of various versions of the name.

In many ways this is like the Belgian Barkers, Parker’s, W. Richard not to be confused with the legit WRichards in GB, who was a real gunsmith, not a fake cashing in on a more famous namesake.

Still a nice looking gun though! Lagopus.....

This would be John Manton & Sons of Dover Street, London. the company operated for many years through the 1840's, 50's, 60's. John Manton was one of the few gunmakers stamping bore sizes before they were required (Greener and Reilly being two others). He signed the famous open letter in the field in March 1858 supporting the reopening of the Military trials in favor of the Prince Patent breech loader.



John was Joseph's brother. He died in 1834. The firm must have afterwards been run by his sons. IGC will have the history but I do not frequent that site after certain unpleasantness. Lagopus will know. We had a line discussing Manton & Co. in Calcutta once. (Lots of bad info available on the internet I understand).

I brought forwards an old 2007 thread which should shed a bit more light on this gun. Seems their not best grade just got Manton on the side. Kind of like Fox creating the Sterlingworth company so the basic graded did not distract from his higher grades. Interesting how things sometimes work.

There's this line too.
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forum...p;Board=1&main=28689&type=thread

But I'm trying to figure out who ran the company in the 1840's, 50's and 60's. There are advertisements in London papers for Manton center break guns.

Exhibitors at the 1862 London Exposition - Manton showed muzzle loading rifles and "a few breech loaders" (Pinfires no doubt)

Referencing the DHL Back book the Mantons 1782-1878 it lists serial number 6324 as a double barrel 17 bore Flintlock originally made in 1817 (p43)

If this is the same gun it is a significant conversion. While the book describes cases of conversion from flintlock to pinfire by Westley Richard’s (p 113, p 121). Further given the details in the book on the gun, I.e. 28 inch barrels, I doubt it is the same gun described.

Unfortunately neither the book or its supplement discusses in detail with pictures flintlock to pinfire conversions.

From the shape of the trigger guard bow and the triggers, I would have said conversion of an early percussion gun as a first guess, but without seeing the gun up close, impossible to tell. In any case, a desirable piece, and unusual gauge. I would certainly like to know more.

The point is....Someone was making new John Manton guns with a new serial number series in the 1850's and 60's and this does not seem to be covered by the Manton book. There is a hole in gun scholarship here it would seem.

06 July 1862, "Bell's Life"

1844 John Manton converted to pinfire
https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.c...+++942+&refno=+++76123&saletype=

JOHN MANTON & SON, LONDON
A CASED 16-BORE PINFIRE DOUBLE-BARRELLED SPORTING-GUN, serial no. 10983,
for 1840-44 and probably converted from cap-lock, with re-browned 28 3/4in. twist barrels, the top-rib signed 'JOHN MANTON & SONS DOVER STREET LONDON', scroll engraved top-tang, border and floral scroll engraved locks, the action-body signed 'JNO MANTON SON & COE', walnut half-stock chequered at the wrist, iron heel-plate with engraved long top-spur, trigger-guard tang engraved with game birds, scroll engraved flared action-body, fully chequered walnut splinter fore-end, TOGETHER WITH a period mahogany storage case, lined in green baize with a John Manton & Son parchment trade-label to the inside of lid and containing a pinfire loading tool together with other sundry loading items

John Manton died in 1834. In 1833 William Hudson became a partner and until his death ( early 1840`s ) the firm became known as Manton and Hudson though always employing the wording John Manton and Son on their guns. When John died George Henry Manton ( Son of John ) took his nephew Gildon Manton into the business. In march 1840 the firm were describing themselves as John Manton and Co.

George and Henry did not get on together with the business one wanted to keep it how it was and one wanted to modernise so at this time fewer of the high class John Manton and Son guns were made with individual serial numbers. Now the locks were just marked Manton and as a general rule were of the back action type, barrels were made in Birmingham and proved at the Birmingham proof house. The weapons sold were serviceable double barrel sporting guns and were not comparable in quality to John Manton's, many of these guns were exported to America.

In 1851 John Manton and Son exhibited in the great exhibition of 1851 at the crystal palace.
George Henry died in 1854 the management of the gun business passed into Gildons hands. In 1856 Gilden became ill and died after going out hunting and getting wet through.

Now Mrs Gildon Manton was left with the business on her hands with no male member of the family left to help her. By 1862 very few fine guns were being made only around twelve a year, shortly after this time probably 1868 the firm was changed to John Manton Son and Coe, Coe being the foreman of the business who now became a partner, gradually Charles Coe took over more and more of the business Mrs Manton eventually sold it to him he however did not have the ability to run it properly and in 1878 it went into voluntary liquidation.

No 6 Dover street was demolished in the 1890`s to make way for the Dover street tube station of the Piccadilly line. John Manton and Son Ltd is now a business again making high end guns.

Thanks for the excellent summary BB. I was wondering what were the proof-marks on the gun.

Stephen, Check out HOLTS UNSOLD items from their sealed bid sale.....a Harvey of Exeter pinfire with a previously unrecorded action! You will have to be quick as this may go in the next few days! David