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Posted By: Stanton Hillis Be still, my beating heart ...... - 03/14/22 11:55 AM
https://stevebarnettfineguns.com/henry-morris-shotguns/henry-morris-boxlock-ejector-410?rq=22273


Mercy!
Posted By: KY Jon Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 03/14/22 12:42 PM
Eight dollar corn is a year too late.
Posted By: ithaca1 Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 03/14/22 12:56 PM
It's only money!! smile
Posted By: eightbore Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 03/14/22 12:59 PM
A bargain at half the price. Too bad it's not an auction.
Posted By: SKB Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 03/14/22 01:50 PM
I will be the outlier....nice gun and well priced if it is as clean as it appears to be. When was the last time you saw a high grade, high condition vintage .410 ejector gun with 29" barrels?
Posted By: Parabola Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 03/14/22 02:01 PM
If I remember rightly Henry Morris was a well respected Birmingham gun engraver who would occasionally put out guns under his own name.
Posted By: mc Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 03/14/22 02:15 PM
There is a m400 webly 410 on gunsinernational
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 03/14/22 02:27 PM
I'm working on a plan. confused If they still haven't sold it I'm going to ask them to bring it to Brays Island next month.

Steve, to answer your question ....... NEVER!
Posted By: SKB Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 03/14/22 02:30 PM
Exactly, and those kind of details drive price.
Posted By: KY Jon Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 03/14/22 02:46 PM
That is only the second 28”+ .410 I’ve seen in the last three years. Long barreled .410 seem a rare bird in GB or sold so fast you never see one. The other was w 32” hammer gun, mid grade, 2 1/2”chambers with cyl and 1/2 choke bores. That brought just under $4,000 at auction. I was the second highest bidder. Given the better chokes I’d rather have this gun than that one, even for twice the money. It’s just I don’t have any eight dollar corn to spend.
Posted By: ClapperZapper Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 03/14/22 03:09 PM
Is the charge weight a misprint?
Posted By: John Roberts Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 03/14/22 05:05 PM
Plenty of wood on the comb to shave it to fit, Stan. You could easily get it to 2 3/8" at the heel without affecting the aesthetics of the buttstock.
JR
Posted By: KY Jon Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 03/14/22 06:41 PM
I think 7/16 was the “new” charge when they went from 2” to 2 1/2” .410. But if it has 5 ton proof levels nothing should give it any pressure problems. Tried to look it up on line but without my books at home to get me to the right area, nothing seems easy on line.
Posted By: eightbore Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 03/14/22 09:31 PM
7/16 ounce, couldn't have been made as a 3" gun. 3/4 ounce 3" .410 in a 4 pound 6 ounce gun is a whopper. Oh well, at least it's cheap. If I get hit by a truck, Linda has instructions to mail my 30" .410 Skeeter to Stan.
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 03/14/22 09:35 PM
Maybe it could be bent down if it shot too high, which it probably would.

I'll look in my Rollin Oswald book to see what he says about moving patterns down by changing pitch. I can't remember what he says about that.
Posted By: BrentD, Prof Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 03/14/22 10:12 PM
It is pretty short and already has a pad. If you are short, that may not be a problem, I guess.
Posted By: Buzz Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 03/14/22 10:50 PM
Beautiful little gun. It’s so light, I bet it would be very challenging to shoot well. Might be a good investment though?
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 03/15/22 01:28 AM
Originally Posted by BrentD
It is pretty short and already has a pad. If you are short, that may not be a problem, I guess.

A problem that would be so easily solved, as I do on so many of my other doubleguns that don't have as long a LOP as I need. A Kick Killer lace-on pad that is quickly and easily removed before going into storage.

Originally Posted by Buzz
It’s so light, I bet it would be very challenging to shoot well.

I have another .410 double in that weight range that I shoot well. Where the weight is located in the gun has a lot more to do with how it handles than just the weight alone. I've found that, for me, shooting a very lightweight gun like this requires an entirely different technique. I cannot swing through with any gun under 6 lbs. I have to have the gun moving in time with the bird even as I bring it to shoulder. Then, as it hits my shoulder pocket and my eyes become aligned with the rib I press the trigger. Very little movement of the gun between mount and shoot. Almost like you're hitting the trigger the instant the gun hits your shoulder, but it's actually a split second after.

I'll learn a lot more about it if I get to handle it at Bray's Island next month. Maybe it'll already be sold by then and I won't have to go through the angst. I have to admit to hearing a certain siren call, though.
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 03/15/22 01:42 AM
Does anyone have any insight as to why the case label is J. Ormiston & Co.? Is there a connection between this firm and Morris?
Posted By: BrentD, Prof Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 03/15/22 02:55 AM
Yes, a lace on pad is a pragmatic, if inelegant, solution. I do that with a gun that I think I might like before I invest my time and money in fixing. But that one is to short to fix in a way that I would find satisfying. Stock extensions and pads over an inch thick, similarly, do not work for me. For that kind of money, I'd not want to use it with a lace-on as a permanent arrangement. But it's your money.
Posted By: Rocketman Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 03/15/22 03:36 AM
Just a guess, but I'd surmise whoever J. Ormiston is/was approached our man Henry with a largish roll of bills/notes and offered to share. I have some work by Mr. Morris---- nice work if I do say so.
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 03/15/22 10:17 AM
Thanks, Don.
Posted By: Owenjj3 Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 03/15/22 03:10 PM
I agree, a rare configuration. I don't think I have ever seen a 29" British Boxlock .410. I did buy one from Barnett just as rare, though. A 30" 28ga Henry Atkin marked British Boxlock ejector (5-1). It looked to be in good shape, but after my test fire session it needed a bit of work. Left mainspring, breech pin, and firing pin regulation. Then, strip and relay, and re-blue of the ribs. That was expensive! Then I gave it to my FIL for his birthday. He dropped it 10 minutes into our first hunt and shattered the stock. Now it is waiting on a new stock. Talk about a money pit...but I suppose have "done my duty" for a rare firearm.
Posted By: SKB Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 03/15/22 03:12 PM
Ouch!!!
Posted By: Recoil Rob Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 03/15/22 03:28 PM
Am I the only one that thinks the left panel/receiver fit is a bit wonky?
Posted By: John Roberts Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 03/15/22 05:01 PM
Originally Posted by Owenjj3
Then I gave it to my FIL for his birthday. He dropped it 10 minutes into our first hunt and shattered the stock.
"No good deed goes unpunished." Have to ask: did your father-in-law know to take extra pains with a little jewel of a shotgun, or is he accustomed to throwing his Mossberg pump into the bed of a pickup? I mean, dang...
JR
Posted By: LeFusil Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 03/15/22 05:10 PM
Originally Posted by Recoil Rob
Am I the only one that thinks the left panel/receiver fit is a bit wonky?


Nope. It looks like the left stock panel has moved a bit, probable cause is most likely a stock bend, perhaps the panels weren’t clamped down properly during the bend. You can see a definite gap in the lower part of the action-stock fit and the upper action-stock fit looks to have pulled away a smidge as well.

Good eye.
Posted By: Owenjj3 Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 03/15/22 06:39 PM
JR, You are right, I don't think he really appreciated it for what it is worth, or for what I put into it. Of course I didn't give him any monetary figures. He did enjoy opening it on his B-day and knocking down a few doves with it before the vine tripped him up opening week. He is not clumsy at all and in fact played college b-ball and baseball, so it was a true fluke that he fell. He normally shoots a silver pigeon 20, so he is starting from one notch above a Mossberg! I will post on the stock when it is done. I will say in encouragement to Stan that I was able to buy it from Steve at a significant discount to the asking price. I am not sure how the new management (Steve's stepson?) handles pricing, but Steve was always ready to deal.
Posted By: John Roberts Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 03/15/22 08:19 PM
Word out there is August, Steve's stepson, is tough to deal with. I don't know that as fact, however. Dang I miss Steve...
JR
Posted By: Researcher Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 03/15/22 08:32 PM
That is really tiny at 4 pounds 6 ounces. My 28-inch barrel RBL-410 at a fraction of an ounce over 5 pounds is far lighter but much better balanced than my vintage American .410-bore doubles.

I see they are not showing us the barrel flats and watertable so we can judge the proof marks for ourselves. What is the vintage of the gun? The 3-inch .410-bore wasn't introduced until mid 1933. Did the chambers get lengthened when the gun was totally refinished? Is it in proof? A load of 7/16 ounce sounds more like a 2 1/2-inch shell. In the U.S. the 2 1/2-inch shell carried a 3/8-ounce payload until the mid-1930s when it got upped to the half ounce we know today. From American & British 410 Shotguns, Ronald Gabrial, I find the Eley 2 1/2-inch "FOURLONG" cartridge contained a 7/16-ounce load. Hmmm...

I think I'll hold out for the Parker Bros. BHE .410-bore with 32-inch vent rib barrels. Not that my portfolio would ever cover it!!
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 03/15/22 09:55 PM
The proof marks can be viewed here. It appears that Barnett's may have bought the gun on GI, though I don't know how long ago it was sold there. A friend sent me this link:

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...irmingham-410---ble.cfm?gun_id=101278939
Posted By: Parabola Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 03/15/22 10:16 PM
Originally built as 2 1/2 inch. Re-proofed at 3 inch.

JA is James Asbury barrel makers mark.
Posted By: Brittany Man Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 03/16/22 01:02 AM
A very nice looking Birmingham boxlock but any .410 is of very limited use for me & one as light as this even more so.

I would note that in the GI pictures from Mike Schwandt's listing the bottom plate & trigger plate screws appear to be pristine & properly indexed but in the Barnett listing both screws are slightly buggered up and are slightly out of index so someone who didn't know his way around a screwdriver was in there. That is always a concern to me when looking at a prospective purchase.

That said, I've had a few guns come back with buggered & mistimed screws from some well known gunsmiths that were worse than that.
Posted By: LeFusil Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 03/16/22 03:07 AM
Originally Posted by Parabola
Originally built as 2 1/2 inch. Re-proofed at 3 inch.

JA is James Asbury barrel makers mark.


Joseph Asbury? I’d be willing to wager that the entire gun came out of Asbury’s shop/factory. I’m betting the action is marked “JA” as well.
Or….and this maybe a long shot…..Maybe EM Reilly made this gun for the trade????
Posted By: keith Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 03/16/22 05:03 AM
Originally Posted by LeFusil
Or….and this may be a long shot…..Maybe EM Reilly made this gun for the trade????

I'm pretty sure the Fact Checkers at Snopes, CNN, and MSNBC could verify this... along with signatures on mail-in ballots from Reilly's 300 employees.
Posted By: jldidier Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 03/16/22 02:35 PM
Guessing it was only matter of time before someone felt the need to hijack the original post...stay on topic hoss or shut the f... up .
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 03/16/22 02:40 PM
Your right Kieth.

I'm surprised the makee slipped through me mind....it has the O'Rielly fActor all over it.

Kind of extensive tOy don't you think Stan'fOrd....
Posted By: Parabola Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 03/16/22 07:38 PM
Yes, JA stands for Joseph (not James) Asbury. My bad, I checked the spelling of the surname but forgot to check I had remembered the right first name.

The date stamp o 1 c on the proof marks is for 1988 and must refer to the later 3” proof test as the o impinges on the / of the 7/8 oz. from the earlier 2 1/2 inch marks. There seems to be an earlier date stamp but I cannot read the detail.

John Ormiston is an interesting character. He was a Director of Holland and Holland, and the chap who bought the case for Denys Finch-Hatton’s double rifle and later found the rifle to go with it.

For more information on him go the Vintage Gun Journal, search Ormiston and you will find a number of articles by or about him.
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 03/17/22 10:08 AM
Originally Posted by Recoil Rob
Am I the only one that thinks the left panel/receiver fit is a bit wonky?

The Purdy style engraving blinded most.....
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 04/11/22 11:52 AM
Well, I handled the little Morris Saturday, and was offered the opportunity to shoot it , by August. It is a drop dead gorgeous piece with no warts that some thought they could see in the pictures. The heading up is perfect on both sides. The apparent gap that was thought to be on the left side was evidently caused by lighting and camera angle. It is stocked too high, as I knew by the dimensions stated, and has a Pachmayr Old English pad, not a leather covered one as it appeared to me to have in the pics. There was another very similar English .410, a Reece, at CSMC, that Lou allowed me to handle, but with 28" barrels. Very high condition, stocked too high as well, and priced nearly exactly the same. Unbelievably, Robin Hollow has another very nice English hammer .410, a T. Wild, that was in screaming condition, and priced very similarly. I made August an offer on the Morris, but am secretly hoping it won't be accepted. Why?

While talking with Kevin, of Kevin's of Thomasville, about .410 dove guns he handed me a few Polis to mount. One of them caused me to totally rethink my plan about finding the perfect .410 S X S for doves. The other three vintage guns I looked at were way under 5 lbs. which I have learned from experience are difficult to shoot well on doves, and where light weight is not needed for carrying ease. The gun I handled was a 30" barreled .410 Poli built on a 20 ga. frame. Here's where I had to start thinking outside the box a little. My first impression when he opened the gun was, why would anyone want that ............ until I handled it. It weighs either 6.8 lbs. or 6 lbs. 8 oz. (I didn't look too closely at the hang tag) and handles like a dream gun. The extra weight is nearly all in the breech area, where it should be for handling well. He said he can have them made with barrels out to 34" in length. It fit perfect with it's long LOP. The gun is side plated, and has a Woodward semi-pistol grip, which is lovely. It's certainly not an "English gun", but may well be the ideal dove field .410.

I would welcome personal messages or emails from anyone who has had personal experience with Poli S X S guns, for some length of time, and can address reliability. I know Joe Norcom has owned some for years and I have emailed him about having a conversation about his. If you read this Joe, check your emails please.

Best, SRH
If you want 410's, you might like this.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...-cased-410-shotguns.cfm?gun_id=101904195
Posted By: mc Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 04/11/22 01:55 PM
Well Stan kinda like dumping Audrey Hepburn to go to the dance with Hillary Clinton....
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 04/11/22 02:12 PM
You fail to see the goal, mc. It's not to own the prettiest .410 made, or the finest finished, or that it be English. It's about functionality. What would be the point in taking Audrey Hepburn to a dance if she didn't know how? Looks don't knock doves out of the sky.
Posted By: pipeliner Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 04/11/22 02:44 PM
Pm sent
Posted By: bushveld Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 04/11/22 04:56 PM
To my observation about this Morris gun, my thoughts about it--tongue in cheek somewhat--- is that if one were to Google search for the English gun trade term "tarted up" a photo of this gun would appear.

Stephen Howell
Posted By: mc Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 04/11/22 06:29 PM
Wow we must be looking at two different guns the Morris I looked at was just a great looking English gun
Posted By: Parabola Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 04/11/22 06:45 PM
My .410 “Rottweil” (made in Italy, possibly by F.A.I.R. - Isidore Rizzini - anyone know for certain?) is built on a 28-bore frame,

An over and under, weighing about 6 1/2 lb. With 30” barrels it probably enjoys similar dynamics to the Poli, but I accept is not in the same class.
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 04/11/22 06:57 PM
Originally Posted by bushveld
To my observation about this Morris gun, my thoughts about it--tongue in cheek somewhat--- is that if one were to Google search for the English gun trade term "tarted up" a photo of this gun would appear.

Stephen Howell

It may be Stephen. I'm no authority on Morris guns. But, if so, it is very well done, except for the pad. Overpriced by a couple K, IMO.
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 04/11/22 07:07 PM
Originally Posted by mc
Wow we must be looking at two different guns the Morris I looked at was just a great looking English gun


What we have here is failure .......to communicate. Let me try one last time.

1) It is a gorgeous gun.
2) Nothing wrong with pretty English guns
3) I'm more interested in it's shootability than it's looks.
4) I will never be able to shoot a 4 1/2 lb. gun as well as I can a 6 1/2 lb. gun.
5) The Morris is a 4 1/2 lb. gun, not a 6 1/2 lb. gun.
Posted By: Parabola Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 04/11/22 07:13 PM
Given that the engraving is original (Morris was primarily an engraver) “tarted up” is not the right description.

“Refinished to a high standard” - yes.
Posted By: mc Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 04/11/22 07:18 PM
You are correct Stanton I was responding to stephen
Posted By: mc Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 04/11/22 07:22 PM
Also if you prime concern is knocking doves out of the air I would think a 12 ga. Would be the answer.
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 04/11/22 10:07 PM
When you reply to another poster that way, mc, it is helpful to all if you hit the "Reply" button between the "Like" and the "Quote" buttons. Because you didn't, your post showed that you were responding to me as the originator of the thread.

No big deal, but it saves confusion. I often forget to do that myself.
Posted By: pipeliner Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 04/11/22 10:45 PM
Pm sent
Posted By: pipeliner Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 04/11/22 11:08 PM
Miss the old days
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: Be still, my beating heart ...... - 04/14/22 09:03 PM
August emailed me to say that the Morris sold on Sunday after I looked at it on Saturday. I hope the wee thing went to good home where it gets used.
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