Looking at a Stephen Grant built on the 12/20 action. It has the Baker design single trigger along with 27" barrels.
Looking for anything or opinions

Not sure I see the advantage with todays shells.

IMO single triggers in old guns are trouble and short barrels in lite guns are whippy

Great guns , buy it
Loved the pictures

If you like it, buy it.
I doubt that will have any more or less issues than any other gun of the same era.

Great guns

Buy that man a Blue Ribbon....


Best,
Ted

I have owned two 12/ 20‘s over the past 15 years. They are an under appreciated jewel of twentieth century British gun trade.

The 12/20s by Grant were all made after the merger between Grant and Lancaster in the early 30s. They were built between the wars to best gun standards and I had have had no problems with either of my two. I moved my first one along because it was only 6 lbs and did not fit me well. Went on the hunt for another and found one at 6’6” that fit me. It is now my current wild quail gun in which I shoot 7/8th oz loads.

They typically weigh 6 to 6 1/2 lbs so you don’t want to shoot heavy 12 gauge loads. They are an incredibly strong action and by my limited experience, are very reliable. The Baker single trigger was well regarded in the early twentieth century. Both of mine however were double trigger guns.

Toby Barclay is an admirer of this action and posted this when he was marketing one he had restored to new condition ( not one of mine):

“This gun is a fine example of the so-called ‘12/20’ mechanism designed and patented in 1906 by that prolific inventor, William Baker. This mechanism was used by a wide swathe of the British gun trade in their better quality sidelocks and it was a very successful design. The ‘12/20’ name comes from the writings of Sir Gerald Burrand who wrote extensively about the gunmakers and their designs and the name was adopted by several London gunmakers to describe the model, notably Churchill and Lancaster. It derives from the inherent strength of the back-action layout of the lock parts which meant that a gun could be made very strong for its weight and so could be built lighter, hence the idea of a 12b with the weight of a 20b. The mechanism also provides an assisted opening facility if the gun is wholly or partly unfired and is only cocked when the barrels are closed, meaning the mainsprings are at rest when the gun is broken or in parts.”

As Dr P mentions, I do admire the design and execution of these guns.
However, I have never worked on the Baker single trigger, probably for the simple reason that I don't work on any British single triggers unless both arms are well up my back and my wife and Tilly the lab are being held hostage!
I have no doubt that the Baker ST mechanism may have been highly regarded in the early C20th but we are now in the early C21st and who knows what idiots have been let loose on your pride and joy since.
I wouldn't give house room to an British single trigger from the C19th. And that includes the Boss unless I had a guarantee, written in blood, that no one except Boss themselves had serviced, restocked or striped and cleaned the gun! I am sure that there are 'smiths out there who can do the work but there is no way of knowing if it is they that did it.
Call me over-cautious if you will, but I have spent too many hours sweating over British single triggers in years past to ever want to deal with them again.

There are quite a few people here who really should read this twice.

Thank you, Toby.

Best,
Ted

This Grant was made in the early 70's. As far as the Baker single trigger, I have one in my 1907 Lang and it works flawlessly. I am just concerned about the small action and how it will handle 12 gauge loads. With a limited supply of light 3/4 ounce loads available I am just concerned about the gun shooting loose.

In fact it actually is a pair of Grant 12/20's. Matched pair. With 27" barrels and single triggers. I can get the pair for a little under 15K.
Just not sure about the small frame size.
I suppose these were made up for driven grouse

What ammunition are you going to feed them that brings you such concern?

You’ve been here long enough to know these are not promotional ammunition guns. Unless you load it yourself, you will have a bit of an Easter egg hunt for ammunition. Big deal. Use your other guns when things are lean on the ammunition front. Buy a US made pump, and make sure you post a photo of all three of them, here, so jOe can add commentary.
Having said that, I’d guess even if it were an issue, and you were forced to use high pressure promotional stuff, it would take you more life than you have left to wear out a pair of guns. That path might nick your gun conservator legacy, however.

That is a cute little first world problem to have. I am convinced you will manage, matched pair or not.

Good luck.

Best,
Ted

Mike, I did not want to rain on your parade. Obviously I only see the ST mechanisms that have failed to function correctly and many, like your Lang, may work well. However, I would say that if considerable funds are involved, and you are unable to 'soak test' these guns before use, you should be resigned to the fact that IF they go wrong you may spend a long time chasing a solution to a problem that can only be sensibly resolved by converting them to double trigger. Just a friendly warning....!

Judy had a single trigger Beretta 471 that began failing to reset for the second barrel or even sometimes fire the first barrel. Beretta in Accokeek and a good trigger man couldn't get it to function correctly. Unhappy wife.

Problem solved by sending the single trigger Beretta down the road and her buying a 16 gauge Ugartechea BLE and a 20 gauge Grulla SLE, both with double triggers which work perfectly. Happy wife.

We now have 7 double trigger SxS guns built from 1866 through 2009 (and had several more before we downsized to move last year) with nary a glitch from any of them.

For some reason single triggers in O/U guns seem to be much more reliable than in SxSs. I have two Beretta 687s and have never had an issue with either.

So there seem to be two parallel discussions here: single triggers and strength of the 12/20 action. I do not have a strong the opinion on the ST issue although I would be somewhat reassured by the fact that these are relatively modern guns.

The 12/20 action is as strong or stronger than any conventional British SLE, indeed that is its beauty. Since it is a back action gun, the bar has no metal cut away for springs and is therefore solid metal. Furthermore, the action is cocked by a unique mechanism centered within the Purdey lugs that eliminates the need for cocking lugs to penetrate the bar, so again nothing but metal up front. All adding up to how a 12 bore can get by with a action body no wider than a conventional 20 bore. Hence its name: 12/20 or a 12 the width of a 20.

The issue is not action strength or resilience but rather recoil. Most of these guns weigh 6 lbs and a little change and therefore will really slap you if you shoot more than 1oz loads. I regularly shoot 7/8 oz comfortably but today shot a 100 clay round with 1oz loads at 1150fps without issue.

I believe I have seen the pair you are speaking of and they are beautiful guns. Truly London Bests…but light 27” 12 bores are not everyone’s cup of tea!