I still get calls and emails from folks, wanting to know more about their Darne guns. I think, I’m usually more help than harm, generally . This one showed up in my email, yesterday:







An actual Darne try gun. You might think this inquiry came from someone in Europe, but, it is living in Idaho. The couple who own it have a collection of guns, mostly lever rifles, I think, and knew it was something special, but, not exactly what it was. They know what it is, now. Of course, they wanted a value, and, I really don’t have an answer for them. The gun is a turn of the century R11, in 16 gauge, and I would speculate it is perhaps 85% condition, and while I have a pretty good idea what a regular R11 from that era might be worth, a try gun, from this maker, is out of my wheelhouse.

The factory, in St. Etienne, France, at the time I was there, did not have a try gun. I asked.

Things like this are why I have always said I’m still a student. Still learning.

Best,
Ted

Wow. I have always wondered how some of the rarest allied countries guns showed up here, I have to assume the Nazis robbed the guns and our soldiers liberated them 😀 from the Nazis.
What an awesome find!

Very interesting gun. I know not many 'liberated' guns found their way to the U.K., as British troops were banned from bringing any back. They did however make quite a bit of cash selling them to the Yanks. Luger pistols would always fetch a premium and sell for many times a Squaddies monthly wage. Lagopus.....

You sent these young men over seas to fight, gun in hand, and forbade them from coming back with a Luger, hopefully taken from a dead German soldier?

Good Lord.

Best,
Ted

I believe pre=WWII French shotguns had to be given-up to the Germans, in which case they were shipped back to Germany, or they were buried or concealed. A lot of them came out pitted. I have a legitimate war-trophy Saint-Etienne boxlock, however, which is still in pretty pristine condition...somehow. Heaven knows where it was looted from.
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=481696

And Ted, coming back from Vietnam you couldn't believe the candy-@$$ inspections we went through with the MP's seizing all sorts of stuff....they tried to take my Randall Knife Model 14 because I sharpened a bit of the top edge (no double-edged knives allowed). They confiscated a Montagnard cast iron spear..... crazy stuff but the military does that.

In Afghanistan about 2009 some general up at Bagram decided that if you wanted to send a breech loading, center-fire rifle back, it had to have ATF approval...this included 1866 Snider-infields, and 1871 Martini-Henry's. Of course most of those were Pashtun copies but ATF in Martinsburg WVa told me they couldn't tell the difference so just gave the approval (copies are not allowed in). ATF was pretty upset about the paperwork deluge...because anything earlier than 1898 is not a firearm in the USA. But that's what you get when an underemployed general decided to frick with the troops.

In the past couple of years, Kirby Hoyt of Vintage Doubles had a Birmingham boxlock try gun listed. I don't recall the price, but it wasn't high enough to take my breath away or sear my eyeballs. Gil

SalutTed,

Au vu de ces seules photos, on peux dire que cette arme est postérieure à 1913. Une photo des plats des canons pourrait nous en dire plus.



https://www.gazette-drouot.com/en/lots/5152404?format=



Celui-ci s'est vendu 660€, plus 25% de frais en 2015

"This is my rifle, and this is my gun-one is for fighting, one is for fun" RWTF

Re the source of pre-WWII European guns: While there was no shortage of doubles from Europe that made it to the States before WWII, most of them that were imported came from either Germany or Belgium. The French makers of that era simply didn't make much of an effort to penetrate the American gun market. So what would have been the source of all the pre-WWII French doubles we see in this country? My guess is that most of them likely did come back in some GI's duffelbag when they returned home from Europe. Likely quite a few pre-WWII German guns as well which weren't destroyed by our occupation troops. One way to tell a legitimate German pre-war import from a war trophy is that in many cases, German guns destined for the US market used English words, maybe the best example being "son" vs "sohn" on Sauers imported by Von Lengerke & Detmold/Abercrombie & Fitch.

As for pre-WWII French guns, certainly some could have been purchased in France after the war. In terms of condition, one of the nicer French doubles I've ever owned was a Verney-Carron from the 30's. Would have been nice to know how it made its way to the States. But in most cases, how they got here will remain a mystery.

Salut Fab,




Best,
Ted

(1) Les canons on été éprouvés en état fini avant 1924.

(2) Le poinçon "foudre" nous indique que le fusil a été éprouvé en état de livraison après 1923.

Tu as peut-être la possibilité de vérifier la portée de verrou si celle-ci est rectangulaire. Le fusil est alors antérieur à la deuxième guerre mondiale.
Si celle-ci est ronde, il est d'après.
Je ne peux pas t'en dire plus.

My Dad was offered Lugers and Walther P38s, unissued, by a GI In Paris in 1945.
He had a bagful of them; apparently they had found a German supply truck in a ditch.
IIRC, P38s were $15, Lugers were $25. Dad didn’t buy.
He could have brought his 1911 sidearm back for $7; he passed on it.

Vous nous avez beaucoup appris aujourd'hui. Merci Fab.


Best,

Ted