Other than sending it to a professional wood man, how would you stabilize this crack? Thanks.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/...J8KR1A6QWLG5XU/22081_15.JPG?format=1500w

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/...JCJGI5MUPP4RU0/22081_16.JPG?format=1500w

JR

Probably mortise in a biscuit under the trigger guard with epoxy

Super glue the crack...wet sand it with 400 and 600 grit and super glue.

Then take the trigger guard off and drill a 1/4 hole up into the stock deep enough to go past the crack and glue a 1/4 oak of walnut dowel rod in the hole.

What tool would you use to make the mortise, CZ?
JR

Look up biscuit joiner. It might be rough stuff on a decent gunstock. Those things like solid reference planes, and water based glues to expand the biscuit. You may want to limit the scope of your mechanical reinforcement? Only thoughts, but try a test cut first for sure.

I like the mortice & biscuit idea but I would first want to get the cracks on each side filled & closed up a much as possible. I still like the original Acraglas for something like this but others may have ideas on the proper adhesive. Whatever you use needs to get into the clean & deoiled cracks & the cracks pulled tight as possible w/surgical tubing.

After curing then cut the mortice under the trigger guard. A vertical mill or drill press w/ compound table + appropriate cutters would be the best for cutting the mortice. Assuming you don't have either you could drill holes to the approximate width & depth of the biscuit & clean it up w/chisels & a bottoming scraper to fit the biscuit. I would probably use Acraglas to secure the biscuit as well.

Done properly it should be nearly invisible & very stable.

For John Roberts

It is hard to say as to what to do without knowing the extent of the cracks showing on the outside, and what has happened inside the stock.

Stabilize the crack, Use a mill and put a piece of Baltic birch under the trigger guard

David Trevallion sent me these long ago; milling for the fillet, which I believe is easier with a straight grip





With some repairs he milled out and fit fillets on both sides of the tang





Mark Dube's images without the PhotoBucket mess
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=79427&page=1





Glued

Don't overthink it. It's not that bad that it needs biscuit joinery. Send it to Brian Board or Brian Dudley or Dennis "TSD". Personally I wouldn't attempt a repair myself on such a nice VH.

Looks like a Parker= VH-PH-GH area- not sure as to gauge though-and frame size.. Nicely done.. RWTF

Those images from Mark Dube are of our friend Claudio Opacek’s work. Claudio has done masterful work repairing both a Lindner Diamond and a Purdey for me.

If that crack is no worse inside than it appears to be it can be permanently repaired so as to be invisible by using a cyanoacrylate and then carefully sanding the finish into the area. I repaired a figured buttstock for a FAIR Verona that had just such a crack, several years ago, and the glued crack absolutely disappeared when sanding in the finish. I have done cracks like this one several times in the past with cyanoacrylate alone and never had one rebreak. I like these Satellite City glues for this:

https://www.ebay.com/p/1381286135?iid=254658154482

Just my experience, which is limited, but again, these glues have never failed me. I do like the idea of gluing in a fillet, of some type or another, for extra strength, but have never attempted it myself.

I've glued cracks like this and I like to inlet a piece of ash or hickory under the guard and I glue it with West System epoxy. It's probably overkill but then I don't have to worry about failure.

I’ve heard good things about the West Systems epoxy, but, never used it. The cracks I’ve glued up were repaired with 3M products, usually 2216 structural adhesive, as it was easy to find, locally. Very generally, I don’t find Isocyanates to be as durable as quality, name brand epoxy.

You don’t get good epoxy at Harbor Freight.

I’ve had about two repairs on wood that convinced a few I was a genius, but, I was more likely very lucky and got to it before things got worse.

That’s all I’ve got.

Best,
Ted

+1

In repairing cracks like we are discussing "overkill" is a good concept. In my experience, the first attempt at the repair is your best shot at getting a cosmetically acceptable & permanent repair. If the crack returns after repair by simply putting adhesive in the crack it is much more difficult to achieve this. It never hurts to add some reinforcement if you can do it w/o it showing.

I have used West Systems epoxy extensively building and maintaining wooden boats. I've used traditional methods whenever possible but epoxy can solve problems quickly and economically that otherwise would keep a boat out of the water for a long time. A wooden boat out of the water for a long time is under stress and creates new problems.

What is nice about the West System products is that you can mix the epoxy straight without filler which allows it to saturate the wood for good adhesion. You can then mix with filler to thicken the mixture and most importantly add strength. The high strength fillers are sold next to the epoxy at any marine supply.

Thanks for all replies, gentlemen. All good info!
JR

I've used West Systems epoxy on boats, too. And, it's good stuff. No reason it wouldn't be great for hidden areas on a gun.

BTW, I repaired a crack in the wrist on a buttstock given to me for my Perazzi comp gun. I did that with the Satellite City cyanoacrylate about 13-14 years ago. It's been shot hard since then and it's never showed any signs of re-cracking. The good thing about using this type glue on external cracks is that it's so easy to hide the repair. JMO, YMMV.

I would jig it up and use a mill or a carefully indexed drill press.

To me it looks broken all the way across. Through on both sides.

I guess, depending on if you were a buyer or a seller, what to do about the obvious cracks and what they really represent, is a matter of opinion.

I wouldn’t think favorably upon a person that sold me a shotgun with a stock that was broken clear through that he had hid the crack with superglue until he had my money.
But that’s just me.

I did find those photographs of repairs that Drew posted very disconcerting by the amount of original stock wood they removed. IMHO that amount of wood removal puts pay to any further repairs in the future, I have always been in favor of "the least done soonest mended. I am more in favor of if you have to put some type of splint support in a gun stock it should be as small as possible and giving as much strength and support to the repair but reversible in the future may be. So my go to materials are Brass and stainless steel both add strength without adding bulk with stainless steel having the the least bulk of all.
I would start by opening the crack the best way I could in the photograph is a toolmakers clamp used in reverse to open a crack as far as practicable.



Doing this you can clean out the crack removing any oil and dirt that may stop the adhesive from working properly when applied. I prefer to use slow set Epoxy adhesive because you can take your time to get the adhesive in to the whole depth of the crack to do this I use dental floss or mono filament fishing line as in the picture to pull the adhesive into and through the crack.



As to support in the crack shown after bandaging the stock with strips of bicycle Tyre inner tube to let the adhesive set and I do give the adhesive forty eight hours to cure before assembling the gun. Then finally the support in this case I fitted a deep seated brass staple set in with epoxy to keep the crack together and stopping any further movement that might open the crack up again in the future.



This repair has proved satisfactory for a number of years now on a heavily used trap gun, also this repair could be easily removed at a future date if further travel of the crack was found all hidden under the trigger guard strap.

Thank you for those excellent images.
Just to clarify, Trevallion's fillet repairs were performed on guns that started out in 2 pieces

Why would you mention this within this discussion? Nobody has said anything about buying or selling a broken stock nefariously.
JR

I've been wondering the same thing ever since I read it early this morning.

You posted a picture of a stock that’s cracked on both sides there’s no reason to believe that they’re not connected which would make it cracked all the way through. Other posters commented on how they cover up such problems with superglue and then hide the repair.
If I were to purchase a gun that it was cracked in the manner that this one is, and the cracks were hidden with superglue, and it subsequently broke I would not be happy.

Honest repairs are, well,
HONEST

I agree with Damascus and his techniques for cleaning a crack, getting adhesive into it, and reinforcing it. Compressed air is also good for getting glue deep into a crack, but can be messy if not done carefully. In clean sound wood, a good epoxy or good wood glue with a clean and properly prepared joint should end up as strong or even stronger than the original wood. This means that a repair in oil saturated wood will not be good, and is likely to fail at some point. Mechanical reinforcements such as pins, staples, and dowels are added to provide extra insurance where conditions are less than perfect for a good strong glue joint. Proper clamping is essential too. Debris in the joint will weaken the repair, and clamping too tight will force out too much adhesive, and starve the joint.

I might be somewhat disappointed to remove the trigger guard on a gun to find that a piece of Baltic birch plywood was epoxied into a milled recess during some past repair. But such repairs can save a broken stock from needing replacement, and are certainly much better than visible pins, dowels, or even the external metal plates, wood screws, and stove bolt repairs that are often seen. In lower grade guns, the cost of replacing a stock may often exceed the value of the gun. Every repair involves a judgement call to determine the best path. There are no One Size Fits All solutions.

I like a good epoxy for repairs that do not show on the surface. That means a high quality clear product like West Systems or Accraglas. The gray and white epoxies containing fillers have no place in repairing fine guns, although we see them used far too often. Epoxy is great because of its' strong gap filling properties when joint fit is less than perfect. Polyurethane glues are also great for gap filling because of their foaming, but they are very messy to use, and more prone to interfering with staining and finishing after the repair is done. But I still prefer using Titebond II wood glue over anything else where the repair joint will be visible on the outer surfaces. In actual side by side tests that I did several years ago to see which adhesive would give me the least visible repair joint in walnut, the Titebond II was the best when compared with a couple different epoxies, polyurethane (Gorilla) glue. etc. My own tests were inspired by the wonderful work done to save broken stocks by guys like David Trevallion and Dennis Earl Smith (The Stock Doctor). I wanted to learn how they were able to repair shattered stocks in a manner that was often nearly undetectable. I later broke my test pieces in a vise, and found that my Titebond II glue joints were stronger than the surrounding wood. I was applying shear forces by striking the edge of my walnut blocks with a hammer in an attempt to break the glue joint. Cyanoacrylate (Crazy) glues are very strong in tension, i.e. resisting being pulled apart, but prone to failure under shear forces. Shear forces are encountered in gunstocks quite often, from things like recoil, a loose action hammering the front of the stock, or dropping a gun on the butt and breaking a piece of the toe.

Super glue doesn't hide the repair. It is a MEANS of repair. Sanding in finish hides it. Hiding a repair does not, in spite of what you may think, imply unethetical intent. You're the only one who found reason for unethical intent in the use of it.

Would you kindly explain how repairing a crack and leaving it visible on the outside is more ethical?

And one more thing ................ by your term "other posters", then misrepresenting my description with your use of the term "cover up", you have implied in a back-handed manner that I would intentionally hide a repair from a potential buyer. That is reprehensible, inaccurate and highly insulting. You owe an apology, but given your propensity for argument in the past I doubt you will admit it.

Nice pics Damascus but I'm seeing a different crack than he has.....

This is rather an interesting point about a hidden repair, I have over a long time repaired many stock problems from the stock being in pieces to scratch removal. But in all the repairs I have done I have never been told to make the repair noticeable ever! May be it is the case of I am paying for the repair so I want the best repair possible. That put the onus on me to produce the best work and if that means hiding my repair because of professional pride I will do it and have done it having no thoughts what will happen to the gun when I handed it over to the paying customer. As they say in the repair business "the customer is always right."

Nice post Damascus. Particularly the professional pride part.
But you are on a different side of the equation than the owner. Different challenges. Different expectations.
Your professional reputation stands to be damaged by a failed repair.

Interesting discussion.

For those of you using the West Systems Epoxy.

Are you using the 105 or the G Flex & what level of success have you had w/tinting the resin to match the wood in cases where you can't get a complete closure of the crack or joint?

To me, that was (is) the beauty of the original Acraglas w/ the powdered dye (which I still have access to). I've not been as happy w the liquid dye that comes in the tubes & Acraglass Gel has it's uses but not in this application.

I use the 105 West System. I have not needed to dye it as all repairs have been hidden but I suppose that any epoxy can be dyed.

I have used the West Systems 105 many times, but never tried the G Flex. It can be difficult at times to get a close fitting joint, but it is most important to try to achieve that goal. Gaps and voids are the enemy of a strong glue joint that won't break again in the future, so keeping and cleaning debris out of a crack or break is a priority, as is trying to find and keep all broken pieces of a stock that may be repaired. The original broken pieces will often fit better than any patch you might attempt, and the grain and pores will be perfect too.

Like you, I still have a quantity of the Brownells Acraglas dye for the times I do have to fill a void. Most often, that is going to be a natural void from an inclusion or internal crack in the walnut that cannot be pulled closed and glued. The color of the dyed epoxy has to approximate the color of the wood AFTER the finish is applied, because cured epoxy will not take stain or color deeper from the finish. So it may be necessary to put some finish on a hidden part of the stock, or a scrap from the same blank, to see what color you need. Many people advise coloring the clear epoxy with walnut sawdust, but that typically turns out too dark. I have found that mixing in some very fine sanding dust from pine or poplar will provide a better color match to the finished walnut. Adding a small amount of walnut sawdust may be needed if the mix is too light. Every piece is different, so it may take some experimentation to get a match that isn't glaringly obvious in the finished project. It takes a lot more time to do it right, but the results are worth it when you finally do it well enough that even you have a hard time finding a repair that you did.