A newcomer to the forum and double guns. I have an early Francotte Featherweight Grade I. Bob Beach was kind enough to look over photos and give me some history on the gun. But it is in need of some smithing. Barrels need put back on face, cocking dogs most likely need some material added, etc.
I've already reached out to Griffin & Howe, Vintage firearm Inc Gunsmiths, Whittman, and a few others I've found recommended by members of the forum. Most are not accepting new work. I then stumbled upon Bill Graham with "nice old doubles gunworks" through the Society of American Side by Sides group on Facebook. The work seems very high quality, and his quote came in at a significantly lower price point.
Does anyone have experience working with Bill? Or have seen his work? I'm not in a rush, and want it done right. And the quotes from the other smiths were not unreasonable per say, but with Bill I could potentially have a few cosmetic things addressed for the amount of money I want to put into the gun, not just getting the action taken care of.
Any other smiths that folks would recommend?
And if this thread should be in another category let me know/move it. I'm new to the forum and did my best to search before creating a duplicate thread. Thanks for the thoughts! Take care. -Josiah
Philip's Gunsmithing in east TX is the best I ever used. He fixed a 21 that makes you gun sound simple, costs are reasonable, no cheap. Call 210-313 - 5988
Marks born again bird guns.there is a guy in your neighbor hood but I'm not sure if he's taking anymore work.ask mark for recommendation.Steve Bertram in colorado
Not sure if he's taking on work but our own SKB (Steve Bertram) restored my Francotte to all it's glory, including replacing the hinge pin, rebuilding the inletting and refinishing, and a downright gorgeous covered pad.
Does your gun have two cocking levers on the front of the action?
Nope, it has one bearing surface on the forend that engages a centered cocking dog at the front of the receiver. That centered dog depresses both cocking levers simultaneously.
Marks born again bird guns.there is a guy in your neighbor hood but I'm not sure if he's taking anymore work.ask mark for recommendation.Steve Bertram in colorado
I'm familiar with Mark. I almost bought the T. Bland and sons underlever he's selling right now. I know he isn't taking on work, but I should give him a call to see who he recommends.
I have the same model francotte it's built on the 1884 westly Richards patent make sure who ever you chose to work on it understands this model mine is a really great well made gun
Thanks for the recommendation but I am not taking on any repair work currently. I'm just buried with custom and restoration. I hope by sometime next year to be able to take more repair.
I have not seen anything other than pictures of Bill Graham's work but I have had business dealings with him and I think you will be pleased if you give him a try.
Plus one on Bill Graham and Nice Old Doubles. He has done excellent work for me. He has a network of specialists he can call on to do work he doesn't do...Geo
Several years ago I had a hammer ejector issue with a gun I still own and shoot often. When I had the issue I had sent the gun over a two year period to four different nationally known doublegunsmiths. None of these gunsmiths could rectify the problem. Finally, I sent the gun to Jack Haugh of Milan, IN. Jack fixed my gun and got it back in hands within two and a half weeks with a note enclosed saying there would be no charge for his services or shipping. I immediately called and he told me that I nor anyone else could justify paying him a normal gunsmith's hourly wage for the time he spent fixing the gun. IMHO, Jack Haugh was truly the gunsmith to other gunsmiths and he has now handed the torch over to his son Cole.
I appreciate all the info, I certainly don't have any complaints about nicely priced work. I'll call Bill just to go over a few of the details but my guess is that we'll end up working together. Excited to bring this gun back to fighting fit shape. I've busted quite a few clays with it using just a feeler gauge shim on the hook. It swings great, fits me beautifully. Thinking about having the left barrel choke opened up as well, it's IMP CYL on the right and Extra full on the left.
Then I'll just need a twill jacket and pheasants beware!
Re the original question for a gun smith recco. Be sure to ask if your man has a Type 01 Federal License for gun smithing, has liability insurance, and has a distinct business premises, i.e., not working on the kitchen table out of an apartment or such. Just a few years back one guy I can think of flipped a 20 gauge Fox because it was too hard for his wife to cock, now he's a gun smith.
Re the original question for a gun smith recco. Be sure to ask if your man has a Type 01 Federal License for gun smithing, has liability insurance, and has a distinct business premises, i.e., not working on the kitchen table out of an apartment or such. Just a few years back one guy I can think of flipped a 20 gauge Fox because it was too hard for his wife to cock, now he's a gun smith.
The criteria mentioned have nothing to do with the skill level of the gunsmith. The four best vintage double gunsmiths I have met all work or worked from home (one is now retired). I have had work done by all four of them and in each case it was exemplary. Here is an example:
[quote=Dogfox]Re the original question for a gun smith recco. Be sure to ask if your man has a Type 01 Federal License for gun smithing, has liability insurance, and has a distinct business premises, i.e., not working on the kitchen table out of an apartment or such. Just a few years back one guy I can think of flipped a 20 gauge Fox because it was too hard for his wife to cock, now he's a gun smith.
The criteria mentioned have nothing to do with the skill level of the gunsmith. The four best vintage double gunsmiths I have met all work or worked from home (one is now retired). I have had work done by all four of them and in each case it was exemplary. Here is an example:
+1...My most memorable gunsmith visits have been to the basement of one of the best working in the US.
Another vote for BIll Graham. He is doing a full restoration on an LC Smith Long Range for me now. He did some barrels for me previously and I have seen other work of his in person
Because edd ,a lot of gunsmith will do work for existing customers but are not taking on new customers work and ask not to be recommended so not to be bothered .
This discussion has migrated a bit and it brings to mind to me that we are seeing a significant change in the work force in this country, and this change is across the the spectrum of labor and crafts it appears.
Mark's comment above about some gunsmith's not taking on new customers is one of these significant changes that we are seeing in America; not only with gunsmiths but with crafts such as the private automobile mechanic (now called a auto technician). When you telephone the auto shop of the father and son who keep my SUV going you receive a message that they are not taking on new customers.
Further, we see the shortage of labor in the general work force and we old timers are prone to think that the shortage is caused by those lazy 20 somethings who do not want to work, but free load off the government. However, just today the we have seen statistics from the national news that set our minds to thinking....... HERE IT IS BELOW:
"One of the more insidious myths making the rounds this year was that young people didn't want to work because they were getting by just fine on government aid. People had too much money, went the narrative from a handful of politicians and pundits. Only trouble is, the numbers don't back it up.
Here's the thing: Early retirement — whether forced by the pandemic or made possible otherwise — is having a huge impact on the labor market. And data show that retiring boomers, far more than "lazy" millennials, are the biggest force behind the labor shortage.
People have left the workforce for myriad reasons in the past two years. But among those who have left and are least likely to return, the vast majority are older Americans who accelerated their retirement.
Last month, there were 3.6 million more Americans who had left the labor force and said they didn't want a job compared with November 2019. A whopping 90% of them were over 55"
WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT BUBBA? What was it that Pogo said about seeing the problem and it is US, or something like that? Of course, many of you are too young to even know who Pogo was.
.....Here's the thing: Early retirement — whether forced by the pandemic or made possible otherwise — is having a huge impact on the labor market. And data show that retiring boomers, far more than "lazy" millennials, are the biggest force behind the labor shortage.
People have left the workforce for myriad reasons in the past two years. But among those who have left and are least likely to return, the vast majority are older Americans who accelerated their retirement.
Last month, there were 3.6 million more Americans who had left the labor force and said they didn't want a job compared with November 2019. A whopping 90% of them were over 55"
WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT BUBBA? What was it that Pogo said about seeing the problem and it is US, or something like that? Of course, many of you are too young to even know who Pogo was.
I have to agree with Ed here. If you know of a good double-gun gunsmith who is still active, then just go ahead with a recommendation. If your gunsmith is not taking on new customers, then don't bother. Pretty simple!
Those who think that having an 01 FFL, a business license, and a dedicated commercial shop are essential to quality gunsmithing obviously have not seen the work done by some of the extremely talented non-professionals who have shared work here.
We have some gunsmiths who are retired or nearing retirement. We have some who spend a lot of time posting Liberal dogma on forums rather than working on guns. And we still have new guys entering the trade. As always, the new crop will contain some real talented craftsmen... and some who should never be permitted to work on any gun.
I certainly do not buy the current Liberal Left spin that is blaming the current labor shortage on older people retiring early. From what I personally see, the uncertainties of inflation and supply chain problems are making people more reluctant to retire, and fearful that they might outlive their savings. 45% of people between age 55 and 65 have virtually no retirement savings, and cannot afford to simply quit. My employer has had great difficulty finding enough qualified applicants in the last couple years. I constantly hear stories from management about few applicants, applicants who have very thin resumes, highly exaggerated resumes, or otherwise qualified applicants who simply cannot pass a drug test.
One thing is certain in my mind. If an able-bodied person voluntarily chooses to leave the labor force, they should be ineligible for any Unemployment Compensation, Welfare, or other taxpayer provided government assistance. I worked right through the Covid19 Shut-Down, and thoroughly enjoyed driving to work at 90-95 mph with almost no other traffic on the roads, and cops ignoring speeding violations. We had roughly 2 million people illegally entering this country in 2021, most coming to find work. Those who complain about depressed wages should consider the effect of that.
If this is unsuitable content for this forum, then certainly the post I quoted from is too.
Double digit inflation will have them back in no time. I hope the guy is wrong (he usually isn’t) but, an economics guy I pay attention to is predicting:
$200 a barrel oil, next summer. $12 for a pound of butter, next spring. $9 for a loaf of bread, next spring. $25 for a pound of hamburger, next spring.
Double digit inflation will have them back in no time. I hope the guy is wrong (he usually isn’t) but, an economics guy I pay attention to is predicting:
$200 a barrel oil, next summer. $12 for a pound of butter, next spring. $9 for a loaf of bread, next spring. $25 for a pound of hamburger, next spring.
The head of the business department at the community college you take your forestry classes at?
Originally Posted by BrentD
Want to put money on any of this????
If the “economics guy” is “usually right” I’d be loading up on XOM and the Wisconsin Dairy Consortium.
____________________________________ I dreamed of high inflation. Put my money down and placed my bet. (Apologies to the beautiful and talented Miranda Lambert)
I have used Louis Rotelli several times and been highly satisfied. He is located in Connecticut. His phone number is 203 788 4920. He posts here from time to time as dblgnfix.
Double digit inflation will have them back in no time. I hope the guy is wrong (he usually isn’t) but, an economics guy I pay attention to is predicting:
$200 a barrel oil, next summer. $12 for a pound of butter, next spring. $9 for a loaf of bread, next spring. $25 for a pound of hamburger, next spring.
But, hey, the mean tweets are all over....
Best, Ted
Want to put money on any of this????
Thought not.
If you are willing to consider Europe, you already lost.
Originally Posted by lonesome roads
Originally Posted by Ted Schefelbein
$200 a barrel oil, next summer.
Your “economics guy” is 6% in the hole today. Maybe he didn’t figure in Omicron and Manchin.
Is it Cramer?
__________________________________ Booyah!
No. Oil didn’t end down 6% today. But give Cramer his due-he would have told you you were an idiot for buying an RBL.
If you wanted him pointing and laughing at you, just bring up the Cub.
Best, Ted
____________________________________________________________________ Your motorcycle should be worth more than your hockey stick.
Should have consulted Ted’s “economics guy”. He’s “usually right”.
____________________________ Golly, that’s pretty good butter. I don’t know if it’s worth $12 dollars, but it’s pretty fookin’ good. (Lonny Rhoades in Pesaro)
Double digit inflation will have them back in no time. I hope the guy is wrong (he usually isn’t) but, an economics guy I pay attention to is predicting:
$200 a barrel oil, next summer. $12 for a pound of butter, next spring. $9 for a loaf of bread, next spring. $25 for a pound of hamburger, next spring.
But, hey, the mean tweets are all over....
Best, Ted
Want to put money on any of this????
Thought not.
If you are willing to consider Europe, you already lost.
What's the matter, Ted? Lost your nerve again? Put your money where your mouth is, or be forever a chicken.
If you are willing to consider Europe, you already lost.
Where are you shopping?
Won’t matter, after you pay for the heat this winter.
Originally Posted by Ted Schefelbein
If you wanted him pointing and laughing at you, just bring up the Cub.
With $200 dollar a barrel oil? Thing gets 120 mpg.
But, it is still like banging a fat chick. You don’t want your friends seeing you doing it. Well, I don’t, anyway. You, whole different deal.
I’m beginning to think your “economics guy” is a twenty something at the shop with the Robinhood app on his phone.
Actually Sundance said the same thing, a while back.
___________________________________ Bet you were glad to hear Potato Joe Brandon bailed out your pension, eh.
It’s a State of Minnesota pension. Was in OK shape before Joe started funding private pensions with taxpayer dollars. The U got us out of the Inter local pension years before I got there. If Joe had the chance to F with it, it would be as screwed up as anything else he has touched in the last year.
Best, Ted
_________________________________________________________________________ ROI on an RBL? If you ‘gotta ask....
SKB, I don't know what those hillbillies have to do with gunsmithing but that's some of the best picking and playing I have ever heard. Merry Christmas ya'll.
Well, it does keep at least one hillbillie gunsmithing working at a brisk pace.
You are correct, a talented group to be sure. That kid Billy Strings is just on fire these days, he is already great, it is going to be interesting to see what he does in the coming years.
Well, it does keep at least one hillbillie gunsmithing working at a brisk pace.
You are correct, a talented group to be sure. That kid Billy Strings is just on fire these days, he is already great, it is going to be interesting to see what he does in the coming years.
Merry Christmas to everyone!
I didn't recognize him and I'm not a bluegrass fan, but I have enjoyed listening to him.
There is an incredible Tony rice video free born man with Bella fleck Jerry dougles Sam bush and a bass player best live acoustic guitar guitar
Mark, I have been lucky enough to see all of the above many times at the Telluride Bluegrass Festival. I attended 10 times between 1996 and 2008 and caught some amazing players there. Late night shows in bars with Tim O'Brian singing happy birthday to a girl in our group, hanging out with Todd Snider, seeing John Prine, Emmy Lou, Bonnie Raitt, Willie Nelson. I caught Dylan in Telluride town park for two shows in the early 2000's as well. Great memories of some wonderful musicians. I do regret not catching the Allman Brothers in Telluride, though I have seen them quite a bit.
I see Tyler Childers is headlining TBF this year.....it might be time for me to return.
There is an incredible Tony rice video free born man with Bella fleck Jerry dougles Sam bush and a bass player best live acoustic guitar guitar
Mark, I have been lucky enough to see all of the above many times at the Telluride Bluegrass Festival. I attended 10 times between 1996 and 2008 and caught some amazing players there. Late night shows in bars with Tim O'Brian singing happy birthday to a girl in our group, hanging out with Todd Snider, seeing John Prine, Emmy Lou, Bonnie Raitt, Willie Nelson. I caught Dylan in Telluride town park for two shows in the early 2000's as well. Great memories of some wonderful musicians. I do regret not catching the Allman Brothers in Telluride, though I have seen them quite a bit.
I see Tyler Childers is headlining TBF this year.....it might be time for me to return.
I only did it once but it was an awesome experience. I predated you a bit
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