Thot it best to open a new thread, now that the season has opened in most places to see how folks have faired. I've not been out yet this season, but oft find the better sport in early October and no longer have the company of some shooting buds not w/us any longer and don't do triple digit days and extreme heat as well as I once did. I'll be getting out to try and take some of them later. So, what guns went afield, what was the set-up and how well did you shoot? And most importantly, did ya have fun?

Had a great time in NE Colorado. The birds were there, but spread out & finding a place they congregated us tough. I shot my Parker repro 28ga & loved very minute of the shooting even though I shot pretty poorly at first.

This was our 24th year of dove camp with the same landowners & their families. We've been doing this camp long enough that in two case we are now dealing with the second & third generation of these farmers.

There was a big down side to this year though. One of the first generation farmers died about a month before the opener, then one of my best friends and founding member of this outing died suddenly from a heart attack two weeks before the opener. Their presence was dearly missed, but we made sure to honor them as best we could & used this years hunt as a time of healing & respect for those we loved. The actual hunting was far down the list of important items at this years annual dove gathering of friends!

Great hunt except our bird dog ran off and was not found until 24 hours later. All’s well that ends well though. I got my limit

Monsoon rains in southern AZ put a damper on things. Around Gila Bend and Maricopa, the whitewings were mostly gone. Virtually no Euros in the spots we hunted. Not an abundance of mourning doves, but enough to keep things interesting and allowed us to scratch out limits. Lots of mud and bazillions of bugs, but not as many hunters as expected. Cloud cover kept temps in mid-90s, compared to the usual 110+. Stopped at three walmarts, no ammo in any of them. Sports store in Yuma that always has a good supply imposed a five-box limit before the opener and said they were pretty much sold out on day three when I called.

Good news in that you got your dog back safe and sound. RWTF

Dickinson .410, W-W 3/4 oz. 8 1/2s, Saturday morning early ............... beautiful 55 degree @ sunrise morning

So few here in East Texas that we skipped the opening day. Not even a half dozen seen here on the farm (we do not shoot them and scare them off the bird feeders in the yard) and less than 20 shots fired from a nearby field that is normally a high producer. A landowner friend said he drew a blank on his place 30 miles south. He plans to wait for cool weather to drive them south from Kansas and points North. It is still pretty warm here , so it may be a few weeks before many birds arrive.

Great pic, Stan! Nice touch, those sunflowers that your gun is resting on.

Thanks, we'll see if we can get another good 'un this afternoon

Stan: Lovely photography!. Your .410 Dickenson is an absolute twin to mine. Shot my Dickenson (but in 28-gauge) on clays Wednesday as I didn't have a good option to hunt the dove opener here. Shot it surprisingly well, considering it's less than half the weight of my SKB clays gun (and I haven't touched it for several years now). I'm likely taking it with me to the North Woods as a backup for my 16 (and to help with "precious" 16-gauge RST ammo consumption up there). Just did the math on the time planned for the trip there (extended slightly to allow for my son's school & work schedule) and it's a little over 6-weeks now(!), so....ammo use is a real consideration.

The more I shoot mine the more I like it, Lloyd.

Today ............... same gun and loads. 15 dove limit.

For the money, a pretty spectacular deal (triggerplate actions generally cost much more). Once my triggers were properly tuned, it became a very useful firearm. Some day (hopefully soon) I'd like to use it on doves as well. With it's 28-bore tubes, it seems to work very well on ruffed grouse.

After the shoot today we were gathered around the trucks for a few minutes before leaving and going our separate ways. One young guy said to me, "Were you shooting a 28?"(I think the quieter report triggered the question). I replied, "No, a .410.". No reply, just raised eyebrows.

Much fun!!!!!!!!

Stan isn't a 3" mag .410 basically a 28 gauge ?

Hello, Stan!

Your story reminds me of my last day in the Army. A bunch of us were standing around my truck saying goodbyes and what not. One of the Robinhooders asked me why I drove such a vehicle (I think the beat up condition prompted the question) I didn’t say a word, just showed him my TD Ameritrade account balance. No reply, just raised eyebrows.

Mucho dinero!!!!!!!!


____________________________
Your grandpa taught you how to live off the land
Mine taught me to be a business man.

(Almost 9:30. Time to make the donuts)

Yes Joe exactly the same except the .410 is 410 and the 28 isn't.

I just hope that someday I'll be good enough with my gun to shoot a limit of doves with the .410 barrels.

My thanks to you for your service to our nation, in the military, Lonny.

No. The 3” .410 is the Prius of shotgun shells and the 28 bore is the AMC Gremlin. Apples to oranges. :-)

3/4 Oz shot is 3/4 Oz of shot, eh??

Yep............ until ignition. Then, setback takes it's toll. And the toll, misshapen shot, is a lot higher in a .410 bore than in a .550 bore. Most people who have patterned a lot know how much harder it is to get really nice patterns out of magnum .410 loads. I had to go to hard, nickel plated shot to get 3/4 oz. .410 patterns that come close to equaling hard unplated shot patterns out of a 28.

Yea yea yea...

Our government farm loan money at work....

Sounds like the logical progression would be 1500 fps loads of # 10 TSS shot in a very lightly choked 3" .410 bore at about $3.00 per pop at a dove....

...or just using a 20 gauge, or even a 12 gauge with # 8 lead promo loads.

That would be a "progression" of some kind, I suppose. But, logical? Nah ...........

On YouTube under Casa Rizzini , Carlo Rizzini who is based in Ireland has set out an interesting comparison of 22 different .410 factory loads he had to hand.

He pattern tested them at 25 meters (about 27.5 yards) on to a plate with a 50 centimetre (20 inch ) circle for the killing area.

He sensibly scored them by pattern percentage, with uplifts for velocity and killing power.

Whilst it would have no doubt have been more scientific (if more tedious) to average the pellet counts over a series of 5 rounds, and his judgement on killing power was necessarily subjective, the videos make interesting and entertaining viewing.

That's kinda what I was thinking about intentionally handicapping yourself by choosing a .410 bore, and then spending extra money for premium nickel plated loads to overcome the handicap induced by the much longer shot column.

Just an observation. I don't really care what anyone shoots to take their game. As long ss they don't shoot themselves in the foot by supporting anti-gun Democrats. But honestly, I never thought much of black powder shooters who use scope sighted inlines that utilize 209 primers. I do think it would be a real accomplishment to take a limit of doves with a smallbore SxS flintlock.

Birds are everywhere. No shooting for me yet.

Opening and second day I used a .410. 2 1/2” 1/2 ounce #8 then 7’s. Winchester Model 42 full choke. Early birds are fairly easy but after two days of pounding they can get much wiser. I do limit my range to not wound birds unnecessarily but will use that #7 load if needed to anchor a cripple. Opening day was 15/21, day two was 15/27. I was on the end station where birds were climbing to go over the tree tops so closest bird was about 18 yards with most 22-25 yards. Best thing this year was breaking in a new lab. She was a joy to watch and recovered 100% of my birds.

I have tried 3” shells but found few which patterned well with enough velocity to be a longer range .410 option. Stan has the right plan with plated shot I think. I use the standard 1/2 ounce mag 8&7’s at 1300 FPS or a bit more. Too much faster and I get blown patterns. Perhaps with slightly different chokes you might find a sweet spot.

The nickel plated shot cost me $38.99/10# bag when I bought it. That's $3.90/lb. There are twenty-two 3/4 oz. loads in a pound (remember, mine are a bit under 3/4 oz./ea.). That's 18 cents per round for shot. Add in the primer, powder and shot cup with the numbers you want. Still a heckuva deal for what I'm getting, compared to factory .410 loads, and even some 20 and 12 ga. loads. I didn't figure in shipping because when you order flats of factory shells you pay shipping for them, too.

Far cry from "$3.00 a pop". (Exaggeration is a tool that can be used well, but the use of which requires a subtle hand.)

Shooting dove with the lock time of a flintlock would be an accomplishment all right. With three guns, two loaders, and a thousand birds, I might manage a limit. Maybe.

Never done so with a flinter, but I have done so with a 16 ga. percussion gun and black powder. IME, a well tuned flinter is very nearly as fast in ignition as a percussion gun. That said, I agree, Carl. It would be an accomplishment worthy of mention.

I have never had either of my Flintlocks go off as fast as percussion one has a Barnett lock. Short throw the other a large siler there is always the delay of the flint scraping the frizen popping open and firing. I would hunt with a 16 ga.greeves percussion shotgun and actually got a few limits of doves.

My comment about the use of a .410 bore, and then putting forth extra effort and expense to obviate it's shortcomings seems to have struck a nerve. That wasn't my intent, and you are certainly free to shoot whatever you wish. However, I agree with what you say about exaggeration as tool that requires a subtle hand. That's why I find it a bit disingenuous to see the subtle suggestion that the $3.00 a pop I referred to had anything at all to do wth your nickel plated shot .410 handloads.

I'm glad to hear that you are able to save money by handloading with components bought when prices were lower. I do the same thing to get more bangs for my bucks. But I was clearly referring to the use of #10 TSS loads as a logical progression to further reduce or eliminate setback damage to shot in a long shot column at higher velocities. One might be able to cleanly kill doves at 50-60 yards or more with a .410 by simply spending more money on harder denser TSS loads to overcome the smallbore handicap. It would be something like the difference between a cheap wood recurve bow and a state of the art scope sighted carbon fiber crossbow. And while it certainly is true that one must factor in shipping costs for flats of factory loads not purchased locally, to be fair, you also should similarly factor in the time involved in producing handloads and the cost of shells fired at a pattern plate during load development. But if it was all about saving money, I'd quit hunting, work some overtime, and buy meat from the grocery store.

Its been a few years, but got fairly anal about patterning the 3" .410 for dove shooting with a Model 42 w/a fixed factory MOD choke. The best I found in factory loads then available were the Fiocchi's in #7.5. That's an 11/16 oz. load, as they all are. No 3" factory .410 actually holds 3/4 oz. of shot, even tho they all used to say 3/4 oz. on the box, back when. You may be able to reload and get that much shot in a 3" hull, but I never have been able to manage it and I have tried. That patterning was done before the ammunition makers were marketing specific loads for Sporting Clays use in the small bore events, so there may be some better ammunition available today. I can't speak to that. There are a number of tournament skeet shooters who use the Remington factory STS rounds in the little gun event, but that's talking ½oz. of shot within the NSSA allowable limit and those rounds were loaded very close to the upper edge, weight wise. That was before Remington closed and again, I can't speak to the new ammo, but imagine they will want to keep that former good reputation.

I don't shoot that 42 much any longer and have not had it out for dove in a number of seasons, but if there was any 'trick' to it, it was keeping the shots well inside about 30 yards and inside the low 20's was even better. Think the distance from stations one through seven on a skeet field to the hoop. That's 21 yards. By 30 yards there is too much pattern bloom with the limited number of pellets to guarantee that you can kill the bird 100% of the time, even if your gun pointing is dead on. Think drawing a driver [a fast hard going away bird]. The cross section of a morning dove's posterior is not very large.. even with its wings extended. Just saying.

Reports I'm getting is that the bird numbers are skinny in E TX and I've not spoken to anyone who has gone out W to shoot yet. Numbers of rain showers have been moving through large parts of the state and it slows and sometimes stops the birds from moving when water is plentiful.

I took the TSS "progression" comment as being a bit sarcastic. If I overreacted, or misread your intent, I apologize, truly.

I hunt birds with a .410 simply because it is a greater challenge. I have killed over ten thousand doves in my life. Killing a limit with a 12 ga. is not much of a challenge. With a 12 and the right chokes you can takes doves cleanly well out past 60 yards. With a .410 I hold back and only take shots of 35 yards or less, and ,mostly 25 or less. Occasionally I misread the distance and kill one cleanly a little farther than that. The "super .410 loads" I've come up with are to do a better job of killing cleanly at 30-35 yards, and I can indeed tell the difference between them and a WW 3/4 oz. load of unplated lead. They're NOT to help me kill doves that are out of range for my gun. I begin the season with a .410 and 3/4 oz. shot. A little later I may (or may not) go to a 28 with 3/4 oz. Later season, when the doves are more mature, tougher and warier (longer shots) I go to a 20 with 7/8 oz., and then to a 16 with 1 oz. Almost all of my cohorts shoot a jammamatic 12 with 1 1/8 oz. shot from beginning to end. I don't need anyone to endorse the way I do it, because I'm doing it for the simple reason that it's fun. The reloading is fun, too. When it gets to where it's not, I'll quit. People have given me so much shot, primers, powder and reloaders over the years that there's no way I could accurately determine what reloading costs me. But, these loads are a whole lot less than even 1/2 oz. .410 loads off the shelf, even before Covid related price increases.

tw, I loaded about two boxes this morning and checked the payload weights closely. I'm getting .73 oz. of nickel plated 8s (I misstated the shot size earlier as being 8 1/2s. The factory WW 3/4 oz. loads I used are 8 1/2s) in the 3" Cheddite, roll crimped hulls. Technically, I can't say I'm loading 3/4 oz., but it's close enough for me.

Best to you, Keith.

A week into it now, LOW Bird numbers...... Fewest in my lifetime...... certainly less than any opening week in the 33 years I have been on this ranch.
I have been taking limits but, chances are few and I have shot up to a standard that takes advantage of most reasonable chances...... But .410 or even 28ga. dove shooting are the farthest thing from my mind....I have been every day of the season so far, hoping for some migratory birds to supplement the natives. I did take one good pic from the opener, I will try to get it posted in the seasonal photo thread. Good luck, and good shooting to all

Thanks for the report, Paul. And, sorry for the low numbers y'all have this year. As you mentioned, maybe the migratory birds will help fill the void. Migratory birds challenging, and loads of fun..... a world apart from our early native birds.

Who needs to worry about a few bucks when you got a big Covid relief farm loan......just saying.

Not a dove shooter up Nawth- we'll see free Jack Daniel's in the taverns up here before we get a legal dove season- But I with your comments about the differences between early local birds and the later migrants. I see the same scenario with waterfowl, mostly ducks. Right now in MI we have the bonus Goose season, but also a early teal season. By October, when mallards are legal, the teal are gone down your way-some woodies hang on until Nov. Since steel shot was mandated, I only shoot green heads and geese. I use full choked M12's mainly, no sense blowing up a small bird like a teal or a woodie with the loads needed to drop a bigger sized bird. RWTF

Fox,
I remember the trial season we had up here years ago, and often lament it's passing. if only we could enjoy the dove season as others do in their states.
Karl

Bird numbers are improving here locally. I saw a good number of birds trading into a shredded sunflower field yesterday late. I made it a point to be in place this morning to give them a try. Flight was good and steady, I felt that my shooting was below par, but took a limit in the first half hour after sunup. Left with 70- 90 birds still working the field. I'll see if this influx is distributed around the ranch in other fields. We may have turned the corner for the better, certainly hope so.

And we can thank the Federal refuges for it all....

Birds are here in GOOD numbers, all returned to normal..... I'll be in the field in the morning , as I was today.... quick limits expected..... Hell, another week of this bounty and I will break out the .410 O/U , just to say I did shoot a limit with the small bore....BUT, I doubt I can match Stan's birds to shell ratio.....
Good shooting to all...... The BEST part of the Year Begins NOW, enjoy it while we can....times are changing, for the worst , I fear......

Good to hear, Paul. Still lots of birds around here, too. But, they're in selected places.

I'm done with my .410s for awhile. Not for any reason except shell shortage. I'm completely out of the 3/4 oz. WW loads. I loaded up 99 of the nickel plated 8s, in 3/4 oz. loads for them (could load more but ran out of Cheddite 3" hulls), but am saving them for later. I'm going to my 30" barreled 28 ga. FAIR Verona O/U now, for awhile. I've got several flats of AA loads for it, and I'm going to burn up a few boxes of them on some dove shoots. I'd rather keep shooting my S X Ss, but it's just a matter of shell availability for me right now. I probably shoot my 30" barreled 20 ga. 687 SP II better on doves than anything I've got, but just don't have many shells for it right now, either.

Not to drag this thread out, but just a Texas update. My fields are continuing to hold good numbers of birds. Plenty for me, but I don't think numbers would hold up to a large gunning party for long.
Had my best ( shooting performance ) outing of the season yesterday afternoon. Birds traded into the field at a nice pace and I was in and out of the field with my allotted 15 shot and picked up in less than 25 minutes. 20 bore with "considerable" choke in it, firing my favorite dove shell AA208,which is the Winchester AA 7/8 oz. #8 1200fps target load.

You can't improve on a 15 shot/15 dove average, Paul (unless there's a two-for-one thrown in). Well done. I agree about the efficacy of that load. I will be using it's "stablemate" in the 28 this Saturday afternoon, 3/4 oz. of 8s, WW AAs. Doubt very seriously I'll match your shooting with the 20, however.

Take some pics for us, bro'.

I think Paul meant he got his 15 bird limit without mentioning shells fired, Stan. But, I could be wrong.
JR

After rereading it I think you're right, John. My mind put an "s" on the end of "shot", and assumed he limited himself to 15 shells. Thanks for the correction.

I re read that line , and I probably should have said " my allotted 15 WERE shot and picked up..........
Truth is that I took them with 17 shells. One I shot a bit short, and I used a LONG second barrel on another. All in all, a very nice outing.
I hope the 28 pays handsome dividends today Stan.

I knew you were capable of a 15/15, Paul. That's why it was so easy for me to misunderstand it. But there's nothing shabby about a 88% average on doves! That's not but about six or seven times the national average which, they say is 7-8 shots per dove bagged. Can't go until Saturday, Paul. I'll be thinking about you.

Best .........

Not good here in SE ND. Lucky to find a field with more than 50 feeding. Few short tailed young seen and birds seem leery of decoys. Getting a bit late for new arrivals from the north?

Shot a little sunflower field this afternoon with about six friends. Three of us limited. Dove numbers were much lower, and the ones that came in were much warier and required shooting at longer distances than previously this season. I am trying a new tactic to improve my self control in refraining to shoot low percentage shots. I took only one box of shells with me today. I was shooting my FAIR Verona 30" barreled 28 ga. with 3/4 oz. WW AA loads of 7 1/2s. Knocked down a limit but it took 3 hours to do so. Not a lot of birds flying today, and I was being a bit "choosy".

Much more challenging shooting than the previous two outings. No pics today ............ sorry.

Well.... Stan, it was 3 hours..... but the alternative is ......? glad you stuck it out and got a limit.....
Just to offer a "contrarian" line of thought..... when birds are scarce , I resort to a different tactic.....bigger gun/shell/choke combination, and reach down in my "shooting tool bag " and try any reasonable chance , calling on a confidence that it takes a bit to bring out...but I tell myself I have done this shot before, let's see if I can pull it off again....
Days like you experienced today make me recall so many shoots with my fine friend and mentor who disdained small bore guns for just that reason..... he wanted to feel he had the best tool for any opportunity that presented itself.
It proved to be a theory well based in experience.....There is some real satisfaction in a bag limit taken when the conditions are Tough. Congrats on yours today.

I'm glad you cleared your mind....

Agree completely on the "bigger gun/shell/choke combination" in times of scarce birds, Paul. But ......... (there's always that "but") I need to have some clue beforehand that will be the case. And, I didn't today. I was advised earlier of a scouting report by the owner that "the field was wrapped up with birds" a couple of days before, and equipped myself accordingly. Regardless, there is wisdom in your contrarian line of thinking, and I make full use of it in the late season when the birds are predictably scarcer here, and shots are longer. I guess you could say I got blindsided this afternoon. However, in the end, 15 doves did too.

I could kill a limit with a 12 ga. easier, faster, and usually with less shells. But, I just enjoy the challenge of the smallbores early in the season. Had I taken my Beretta 687 20 ga. today I could have been sitting in the shade guzzling a cold Lipton Citrus flavored Green Tea an hour earlier. The verdict is ....... I'm a hopeless dove nut, and a smallbore nut ............. but, I'm as happy as a man with good sense.

I understand your "affliction" (small bores) and "convictions" completely , Stan.
I am out the door for a Morning shoot on a field scouted just last evening......I have in mind a stand that should , if they fly as I predict, be able to set up to shoot passing birds entering the field without the use of Mojo toys to slow or turn them....
Shots I really like to try....gun is a 20 bore 28" SxS IM/F. Time and experience in the field and on the pattern plate (pretty extensive testing) tell me I have a gun shell combo that is @95% reliable at 39 yards and 44 yards. Percentages naturally go way down when you push the limits of the combo, but making some memorable shots to fill a limit that might otherwise be unobtainable is a big part of the satisfaction I get from Dove shooting. Plus there is just the pure Joy I get from using that "little" gun. I really LIKE it.

Go get 'em, Paul. I'll be with you "in spirit" .......

Finally went out Sunday morning for a short 1.5hr hunt. Not a lot of birds, but came home with 8 birds, 2 pigeon. The RBL 20 gauge worked perfectly, however, I think a couple of those Remington gun club load had no shot in them. LOL!

Rich

I’d rather spend two or three hours with a nice small bore double or pump, getting a limit, than an hour getting an easier limit with a 12 bore. When you are in the zone with a .410 or 28, ranges which Dove can cleanly be killed, will make you feel great about your shooting ability. 30 yards seems like easy Skeet field shots and 35 yard shots are solid kills. Past that my skills with a .410 tend to Peter out like my patterns.

I agree, Jon, but it's something you can't explain to most shooters.

As a friend of mine puts it, "I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you".