It's never been all that appealing to me because of some "perceived" flaws (like I knew anything?) and I'm embarrassed to say that I'd never actually done it before. Went to a range yesterday with a past president of the Colorado Skeet Association and had myself a fairly thorough lesson and...I came away with a new appreciation of the game. I'm still a bigger fan of sporting clays (because of all the great exercise and gunning practice that gives for actual hunting), but for crossing shots and the quick response on doubles...I can see where it should be a useful and helpful exercise.
The standard criticism of the sport I'd always heard from mostly ne'er-do-wells (such as myself in my rugged youth) was that it was a "grooved game" shot by soft old men that didn't translate-well to actual hunting conditions. This of-course from people who didn't have two nickels to rub together, who shot seriously junky guns, and who hunted more out of sheer-desperation than for any actual form of sport. Ignorance is a funny thing, and on many fronts I've clearly suffered long from it's tendrils (the gift of growing up in crap-poor Appalachia). FWIW....actual skeet ranges were few and far-between in the land of my youth (because so-few could actually afford to participate) so it was pretty easy to miss-out on it there. Also, to be fair, skeet is hardly thriving out here either. The denizens of the range we went to yesterday were some seriously crusty old fellows. If I had to guess, I'd say that they were mostly there to hang out and socialize (& to escape their spouses wrath) more than they were there to shoot. I know I'm clearly not seeing it in it's prime (which was what...back in the 50s?) so I'd hate to speculate further. But....I'll shoot it again, no question.
Oh, and also....a Model 12 Winchester 20-gauge would be perfect for this game. Found myself wishing I'd had one handy. My 10lb clays gun worked fine but...I'd bet a lighter gun (with really light loads) would be ideal, and...I bet it would be darn fun.
I feel my old SxSs are a bit more perfect than a Model 12, even my 870, but that's JMHO. A 10 # gun would be a bit heavy for skeet. All eight of my Remington doubles are 7 to 8# guns and work quite nicely. I think you'll fine even a lighter clays gun would work a bit better. A couple of us shoot with the gun under the shoulder when calling for the bird. When hunting I don't walk around with the gun up and mounted, so why shoot the clay games that way ? I've shot a number of 25s at skeet that way. Not a lot, but at 75 years young I ain't gonna win no major shoots. Just do it for fun.
I'd be in favor of returning the game to its roots with the dropped gun. A decade of shooting a nine and a half pound tubed Remington Model 3200 finally drove me from the NSSA registered skeet game. I can't say I ever shot a better score with the 3200 tube set than I had with my Model 12/42s, but I was much more consistent.
I think it would be a better game with the low gun and weight restrictions for each gauge, such as 7 pounds for a 20-gauge, 6 1/2 for a 28-gauge and 6 1/4 for a .410-bore. I like the call delay of International Skeet, but the speed of those birds is beyond anything in nature.
Every shot I take in the field, can be practiced on a skeet field. The only exception is a shot replicating a Chukar flushing downhill. I’ve never in my life shot a “springing teal”, a chandelle, or a 60 yard crosser or a 60 yard dropping target or a rabbit that hops 3 feet in the air in an actual field situation. Can’t argue that they are pretty fun to shoot though, they just don’t replicate any hunting shots I’ve ever taken.
I shoot skeet lowgun, always. I don’t shoot skeet competitively. Strictly as a way to keep my shooting skills somewhat sharp in preparation for hunting. I use the same guns for skeet that I do in the field. Yep, that means guns from 1880’s to modern auto loaders. They all get time on the skeet range.
Now for Trap. I don’t shoot trap, it just bores me to death. I don’t usually like the guys much who spend all their time on the trap line either, too essentric, too serious and all their pieces of flair irritate me :-)
Hey, good on you, Lloyd. Shooting clay birds is still shooting, after all, and not doing a stack of honey-dos on a glorious weekend day.
I shot on a company sponsored trap league for 16 years, but, we were likely hated by the hard cores, as we were more like a beer drinking league with a trap shooting problem. Best bunch of guys ever, a few really good shooters and the rest of us. Race to the range on Tuesday night, shoot two quick rounds, put the guns away, sit in the parking lot and drink beer and tell lies until dark.
I was single until I was 43.
Best, Ted
____________________________________________________________ My two arms work better than that one Juggalos two remaining teeth.
It's true there are sporting clays presentations that do not mimic anything any gamebirds would/can do. But, a shooter that can master chondelles, springing teal, and erratic rabbit targets can better handle unexpected things gamebirds do. Those who have spent a lifetime shooting doves , and woodcock for that matter, understand erratic flight ......woodies in the flooded timber, too. And, I've yet to meet the shooter that is good on 50 yard crossers that isn't better than most on shorter shots. Learning the long game only makes you better on the short game.
As for skeet being a great practice venue for field shooting, I agree, up to a point. But, anyone who shoots gamebirds at the range you shoot high and low station 8 doesn't care about meat damage. IMO a person who limits himself strictly to skeet as a means to practice field shooting is going to be very handicapped when presented with shots from 30 to 50 yards. Again IMO, learning to kill targets at extreme ranges, and getting better at targets exhibiting erratic behaviour, will serve you well in the field.
Skeet is fun, and good practice. So is wobble trap, and it even replicates the flushing downhill shot if it includes a tower for the shooter.
The State conversation dept has a skeet field about 25 miles from my home. You pull targets for one another, and it is fun to delay the pulls to make each other miss. Our scores would not qualify for the Skeet Review, but we have fun. And improve our shooting, probably.
I started shooting skeet overseas so it was International style, fell in love with the game but was hard to find a range that shot it. Luckily the range in Tacoma WA had an Ex Olympic shooter there and they would leave one field set up or would set up a field for you. They held the state shoot there( Int. Style) we even got to shoot with the Aussy team as they came down to our shoot to practice as they were shooting in a match up in Vancouver, BC.
I started shooting bar league trap back in southern WI in high school. Each little town had a sportsmens club, or some fraternal club that had a trap range or two out back. The local businesses would sponsor five man teams, there are a lot of bars in that country and I think everyone of them sponsored a team. Well we would shot one night in a town and the next night in another, there were times I was shooting five nights a week and meat shoots on Sunday. Worked in a gas station and got free shell from some of the sponsors. I actually wore out a High Standard 16ga pump at the end of it's life if you pointed it up the breach block would fall far enough away from the shell that it would miss fire alot, always had to point it down before bringing it to my shoulder.
After the service I moved to Detroit Lakes MN and my wife, her dad, mom and I shot trap there in a league and skeet down the road at Fort Thunder. Another guy and I offered to donate and build a skeet field for the DL club but the trap shooters there didn't even want a skeet field on the same grounds.
"Now for Trap. I don’t shoot trap, it just bores me to death. I don’t usually like the guys much who spend all their time on the trap line either, too essentric, too serious and all their pieces of flair irritate me :-)" Almost lost my drink out my nose when I read that!
We shot three rounds of skeet and finished with one of trap. Had to wait on some old codger on the trap line with so-much flair on that he could barely move. He even had a magnetic gun rest that attached to the muzzle of his gun (that he used between every shot by stabbing it with his barrel). Painful to watch.
I've never shot registured skeet, though I've shot it often. I was always shooting registured trap. Skeet shooters had a reputation for being kind of snooty, a trapshooter would talk to anybody. You're sure right about one thing. You can sell just about any sort of shooting gee gaw to a trapshooter.
I've shot American skeet, International skeet, ATA trap, sporting clays, pigeons, you name it, for fun and for money, but I never heard of that "flair" stuff. What is that?
Bill, I think they're talking about the eccentricities of some serious trap (and skeet) shooters, the tendency to think another gadget, or a special shirt, or lucky pair of shoes or hat, will really get another target or two. The long, strained, eccentric pre-shot routines.
My bunch of buddies are 180 degrees the opposite of that. We rag each other, saying anything we can to get in the others' heads and get them to drop a bird, or two. We hope for a rabbit target that takes a big hop, and rag the shooter in the box if he gets one or two. We will ask each other things like "Did you put a new bead on your rib?", just as he gets ready to say "Pull!". Or, if the shooter in the box runs the first three pair we will sometimes casually comment "You know, nobody on the squad has missed one here ............yet". All these kinds of things are exactly opposite of the flair the poster was referring to, if I understood him correctly.
I shoot skeet low gun, safety on the same way I do it in the field. I do this to try to cut down on that look the dogs give you over their shoulder when they've stuck a bird and held it until you get there , and on the flush you do everything wrong and the bird keeps going. Those of you that have dogs know the look. I will never be as good as I should, I think too much, but I'm lots better and more consistent in the field than I was before I started. Before pheasant season starts the small group I shoot with agree once your loaded gun is closed you can throw any bird or birds at any time from that moment until they get tired of standing there. Most of us shoot better that way because we pay more attention and focus better. The purpose of the exercise.
I also first shot skeet overseas. Rod & Gun Club, US Navy base. Kenitra, Morocco. I'd been shooting trap to that point and found skeet more to my taste. I still shoot a lot of skeet, but like Le Fusil, with my hunting guns. Haven't shot a straight recently, but a bunch of 24's with a 6 pound Parker VH 16ga (0 frame gun) and a 6 pound SKB 20ga. The way to shoot station 8 is as a going away target. Call for the high house bird while facing the low house and vice versa. Or, if you pivot away from other members of the squad, pivot and take those two targets going away.
Skeet really took off prior to WWII. All the makers of American sxs made skeet versions of their guns. Back then, it was shot mainly with sxs and pumps. There's a poster in the men's restroom at one club where I shoot. Advertises the Winchester Model 21, with which a shooter had then set the world's record: 229 birds straight. As noted above, that's back when you called for the bird from the low gun position. Back when I lived in Iowa, we used to hold a shoot every year at about this time to benefit the Ruffed Grouse Society. Two rounds of skeet. One standard rules. The other low gun and with a variable delay of up to 3 seconds. It was funny to watch the "grooved" skeet shooters on Station 8. They'd get very twitchy.
It would be very interesting to know the scoop as to how Ithaca was able to introduce their "Skeet Special" in July 1926, just 2 months after "Skeet" was named in the May "National Sportsman". Were they tipped off by William Harnden Foster, and why not Parker Bros.?
The cover of the August 1926 "National Sportsman" by Foster was “the first painting ever published of a scene in the new sport of Skeet” and possibly depicted his son using Foster Sr.’s 20 gauge Parker DHE with 27-inch barrels
The L.C. Smith “Skeet Upland Special” appeared in "Hunting and Fishing" in June 1928, almost 2 years later
In the 1929 Hunter Arms Co. catalog, the word “upland” was gone and the Skeet Special grade was shown with a straight grip stock, checkered wood butt, “Skeet Choke No. 1 right and No. 2 left,” and “Streamline Beaver Tail Forend.” Basically, it was an Ideal grade with London Steel barrels, upgraded wood, and with the skeet logo engraved on the lockplate
The Winchester Model 21 went into production in 1929, but was not listed on the Winchester price list until 1931. In 1933, the Model 21 Skeet Gun was introduced in Standard, Tournament, and Trap grades. In 1932, a Parker advertising brochure showed a Special Skeet Gun with “skeet-in/skeet-out” chokes, 26 inch barrels, automatic ejectors, single trigger, straight stock, and beavertail forend. However, Parker factory production records have identified guns as early as 1929 as having “skeet-in/skeet-out” chokes. The A.H. Fox Skeeter was introduced in 1931 and the Sterlingworth Skeet and Upland in 1935, with automatic ejectors, Fox-Kautzky selective single trigger, beavertail forend, recoil pad, and ivory beads. The Iver Johnson Arms & Cycle Works Skeet-er appeared in 1933, and the Ithaca Lefever Grade A Skeet Model with automatic ejectors, straight stock, beavertail forend, and skeet chokes followed in 1934.
I shoot skeet with full or mod chokes all the time, when i miss it is usually by feet and the chokes at those ranges give me inches. I would rather have fun with a neat gun than run 25 with a target gun, not that I run many 25's either way. I am a pretty consistent 18-22 most days, but my guns look great.
Wednesday afternoon shooting practice 16 yard trap is not trapshooting. Attending a registered shoot, signing up for the 300 target day (16 yard, Handicap and doubles) and signing up for the various options is far closer to what a trapshooting is. To run a 25 from the 27 yard line with any regularity requires quite a bit of focus and preparation. I am a trapshooter, my current yardage is 27 and I can be grumpy! I HATE practice shooting and will not shoot in any "competition" that doesn't keep scores or reward success!
Image (taken in 1935) in "Something About Shotguns" in the "Guns & Shooting" section of National Sportsman, July 1939. Gable is holding a Remington 32, Winchester 21, Remington 17 and a Parker. John Bennett gave him a 20g Skeet configured DHE but he had several more Parkers.
With Gary Cooper (holding a Model 42). Gable's primary skeet gun was a Cutts equipped Sportsman
Carole Lombard, Life Magazine, October 17, 1938; also with a Sportsman
The best Skeet shooter in Hollywood was reported to have been Fred MacMurray
As someone who doesn't hunt, skeet gives me an opportunity to shoot some of my doubles on a regular basis. In the beginning I drew a lot of looks and some appreciative comments on the hammered double I normally use compared to the O/U, semi-autos and the occasional pump normally seen at the club. As to the shooters, it always varies from club to club and is more a reflection on the club itself. Some clubs are uptight with rude shooters or shooters who take their shooting VERY seriously. Like everyone else I don't find those clubs fun to shoot at and prefer the more relaxed atmosphere at the club I normally shoot at, we shoot, we make rude remarks at each other's expense and have a lot of fun.
I watched some of the video clips from the Olympic skeet shooting and looked up the rules* and lately we've been shooting a round of that every Sunday. Of course the machines are still set to throw birds at American skeet speeds, but it's still nice change of pace.
Think skeet a great game, but best for a field shooter when played by the old rules w/gun down and I liked the old rule that let you take that 25th shot anywhere on the field you elected, as 25's were/are rare, for most shooters using a low gun start. Agree about taking station 8 targets from the wrong direction [going away] for best field shooting practice. On chokes, shoot what you are going to hunt the intended game with, but use target loads and shot sizes suited to the clay targets being thrown.
Joe Wood and some friends have developed a fun and challenging variant played on a skeet field for practicing/testing field shooting skills. Its a type of 'walk up' skeet, for lack of a better expression.
Tournament skeet shooting is an altogether dif. horse, as is trap.
Shooting 16 yd. trap targets from a low gun start can be good practice for some types of flushing birds. Wanna make it tougher? Try doing that on a wobble or bunker!
I agree, Buzz. I notice how relaxed she looks, how in her stance her feet are relatively close together. Several years ago I had a session with my friend Bill McGuire, a world champion sporting clays competitor, and instructor. He has an uncanny way of bringing out the worst in my shooting, which is exactly what a shooting student needs. We drove to a station at FCGC and he said he wanted me to shoot a right to left crosser. I looked at it and saw no reason I wouldn't kill it. LSS, I missed it five times straight. I looked at him with a surprised expression, and he laughed and said "Loosen up, you're too tense". I was confused and asked why he thought that, as I didn't feel tense. He replied that my foot placement showed him the tension and anxiety inside me. He went on to explain that I had spread my feet apart and sort of braced myself, like I was "digging in" to bear down on it. He said "Now, I want you to stand facing the same spot for the break point, but with your feet closer together, as if you were standing and talking to a friend, and relax". I did that and smoked the next four or five straight. I was incredulous, but I've never forgotten that. It raised my score several birds per round of sporting, and especially in competitive situations such as tournaments.
I'm with you on that one! Trap is like watching paint dry. Too many gadgets like blinders, Frankenstein stocks, foot high ribs, etc. I have also heard all the trap excuses...Late pull, bad trigger, bad shell, angle of the sun, a butterfly distracted me, somebody whispered or talked during my shot, are those regulation targets or what?, etc, etc, etc..............forever!
In addition to the 20g Skeet configured DHE he received from Joan Bennett, Gable had a 32" BHE 28g with a BTFE, a 32" BHE 20g, a CHE 20g 2 barrel set, and a VR A 1 Special he later gave to Gary Cooper http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?p=314610
Carole gave Gable a 28g DHE SN 194,298 about 1938.
1955 "Guns Magazine" - the 20g Parker appears to have a cheekpiece
He gave Carole a 20g Smith Crown as a wedding present March 29, 1939 and in 1940 a Erich Klebe O/U.
I owned a Model 12 which was owned by one of the above actors. If he did own it he used it sparingly or some moron decided to do a complete refinish on it. More likely a Winchester rep sent it back to the factory for the refinish. There was a small group who were big intoSkeet in the 30-50s. Taught by Kerr? As I recall.
I think Kerr owned the gun club that the swells all shot at. He also had a sporting goods store in Beverly Hills. I’m sure he did a lot of business with Hollywood actors.
this would be a good time and place to post pictures of doubleguns that have been proven to work well on the skeet field and in the grouse or quail hunting environments...
Playing the victim is a sociopathic manipulative technique ed. You knew perfectly well what you were doing with your post. You saw an opportunity for self-promotion (which is the point of most of your posts) and took it - twice. Unlike the your gun selling business, the medical profession has certain standards of ethical behavior, monitored by local, state and national governmental and professional certification entities. Violation of those standards (which often occurs when medicine become a business) eventually has consequences - personal relational failures, substance abuse, law suits, loss of license, jail time. Fortunately there are plenty of ethical dealers, smiths and hobby sellers and collectors here that set better examples.
uh drew, everybody manipulates everybody...hits called human relations...
and self promotion is what mentally healthy people do...
as for standards of behavior, i can only discuss the used gun sales world...if one does not do right by ones customers enough times, one will not have enough customers to make staying in bidness worthwhile...ah bin ah hobby gun broker now, since the late eighties...so ah must be doin sum thin right most of the time...
as for the medical profession being so highly regulated, gubmint does so, because so many crooks and charlatans found a home there...sorta like attoneys at law...and like other performance driven endeavors, if a doc or lawyer does not do right by their customers, they go out of bidness...and often go into gunmint employment...where there are little or no performance standards...
i am posting this here in a des par rate effort to generate sales...many of the items i have for sale are in my hands on consignment...
if i do not perform and turn these rare and valuable firearms into cash soon, i am afraid that my consignment customers may take back their items and consign them to internet based auction houses, where you would be required to pay buyers premium fees, of up to 25%'...neither i nor gb have ever charged a buyers fee...
take advantage of these low buyers premium free bar gan prices...BUY NOW, AND SAVE!
and, support this fine forum...if you buy it, say you saw it here, so dave gits paid...
and now back to our regularly scheduled program...
Preacher, I'm not sure why Dave has not yet approved my earlier reply to you, yet approved my replies to MC and SKB. I don't think it was any more vicious or mean than this recent reply you made to Ed.
Originally Posted by Drew Hause
Playing the victim is a sociopathic manipulative technique ed. You knew perfectly well what you were doing with your post. You saw an opportunity for self-promotion (which is the point of most of your posts) and took it - twice. Unlike the your gun selling business, the medical profession has certain standards of ethical behavior, monitored by local, state and national governmental and professional certification entities. Violation of those standards (which often occurs when medicine become a business) eventually has consequences - personal relational failures, substance abuse, law suits, loss of license, jail time. Fortunately there are plenty of ethical dealers, smiths and hobby sellers and collectors here that set better examples.
And I thought that reply to Ed was pretty funny, considering all of the times you have played the victim here... such as when Conservative commentary pushed you over the edge, and you posted this emotional farewell:
Of course there have been other times you played the victim, and did things like posting pics of your dead dog and little Guatemalan kids to gin-up sympathy.
That stuff about your supposed medical profession ethics was precious too. You have frequently made medical psychological diagnoses over the internet right here, without ever personally examining the patient. And I do not believe that you are a licensed Psychiatrist or Psychologist either... are you?
Maybe Dave didn't like my comment about the acid eating your soul, not knowing that I borrowed that line from your book of insults and personal attacks.
Meanwhile, I looked at several modern rifles, pistols, shotguns, boxes of ammo, and found no service pressures stamped into the barrels or printed on the boxes. Nor were they listed in some factory owners manuals, so if they are not there, they simply must not exist... right??? (A reasonable person won't take that statement literally, but I can see a certain copy-and-pasting fish grabbing the hook and taking out line.)
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