I have a collector Friend with a problem, and questions in need of an answer from an expect gunsmith; which disqualifies me. My friend is presently engaged in the restoration of a very high grade LC Smith; a special order gun recorded in the ledgers and grade stamped on the frame as an A-1 grade, but with engraving and features much higher than A-1. This gun will require a new stock, but also has a few other issues beginning with a crack on each side of the rear portion of the lug cut in the bottom of the frame. I'm assuming these areas could be welded up and the engraving repaired, and am thinking doing so would require annealing and re-hardening the frame; but my friend does not want the frame re-hardened as new case colors never look appropriate on an vintage gun. So my first question is this; can this area be micro welded and engraving repaired without the frame being re-hardened and still maintain the correct appearance? If so, who should do the work?
My final question, since I can't seem to post pics here, is will someone be kind enough to post pics so that the issue can be viewed and assessed?
Advise and thanks
Tom

Picture posting here hasn't been updated in 19 years...but here's how...

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=6339#Post6339

Thanks Rob, but I'm too stupid to get thru the process. I'd prefer someone send an email to tomarcher@charter.net; I'll respond with pics attached and the hopes that they'll then be posted here.

No, you're not.

Like a lot of guys around here, guys who can disassemble an AD boxlock with one eye closed, you don't want to do it if you can get someone else to do it for you.

Take the 10 minutes to learn, it swill open up a whole new world for you.

Here are the pictures Tom emailed me --

Many thanks David. The first two pics illustrate the quality and extent of the engraving on this A-1 Grade Smith gun, while the last pic illustrates the issue with the cracks behind the barrel lug. So......is there any way to address this problem w/o annealing and re-hardening the frame; and thanks in advance for your suggestions.

Send those pics to these guys:

https://www.microprecisionwelding.com/gun-repair

Laser welding will not affect the heat treatment of the frame.

What a gun!

Also best to find out why that happened before it's repaired.

That is a gorgeous LC...

Is there more than one high grade shotgun with those specific cracks in circulation?
I seem to recall seeing them previously.

My first question would be why did the cracks develop. I would think the cracks could be welded and the engraving picked up but the color of the area will be different.

Love it!

Thanks for your suggestions Gentlemen. In regards to several of the comments below:

"Also best to find out why that happened before it's repaired" - As to the gun itself, I don't know the history of this gun except that it was owned by a California collector for the last 25-30 years; so have no idea as to what may have happened to cause the cracking; would be very interesting to find out. Also need to know if there is damage inside the frame that isn't visible from the outside..

"Is there more than one high grade shotgun with those specific cracks in circulation? I seem to recall seeing them previously." - Clearly this example hasn't been in circulation for at least 3 decades and I've no idea as to other maker's guns (except for Flues model Ithaca guns); but I've seen lots of Smith guns, and more than my share of high grades. This is the first Smith gun of any grade I've ever seen with this kind of frame damage. That observation noted, I've been told that Marlin had a number of Smith frames to crack early in the Marlin production era while they were experimenting with changing the hardening process from the old bone charcoal method to the less expensive cyanide process.

"My first question would be why did the cracks develop" - Mine too; and as the current set of Damascus barrels are not original to the gun (although they are graded A-1), my theory is that the original barrels were destroyed by an overloaded shell; the recoil being so intense that the barrels were slammed backwards with such force that the barrel lug damaged the frame at the back of lug cut. If so, that may also be the reason the original stock was destroyed?

At any rate this was one heck of a double gun when new, so if there was ever a wrecked gun worthy of restoration perhaps this is an excellent example; but also obviously expensive. The owner is aware of that fact but is determined to do it "right". Tom

So, someone has their work cut out for them. Any idea who the engraver was? The dogs and bird would have me guessing Loy, but, it is just a guess.

Best,
Ted

My guess, and it is nothing more than a guess with those pics and the brief story regarding the barrels, is that the replacement barrels were not fit up correctly. If not enough materieal was removed from either the hook or the rear portion of the lumps the resulting cracks could occur from attempting to force the barrels into place. As Mark suggested, look for the source of the problem and fix it before the cracks at the rear of the slot.

The cracks can be welded and the engraving can be recut, blending the finish will be a trick but can likely be done. The area of the repair is right where CC would be most prone to wear, take that into account as the finish is blended out.

Good luck and keep us up to date on this one, it is a worthy and interesting gun.

"Any idea who the engraver was? The dogs and bird would have me guessing Loy, but, it is just a guess."
The gun is an early auto-ejector gun (Type I) with a three digit serial number that would date the gun to 1892. I believe Spangler was head of Hunter's engraving shop at that time; and since Albert Kraus didn't join the company until 1895, my guess would be the gun is Spangler engraved.

"My guess is.................the replacement barrels were not fit up correctly." Based on another pic I have showing the top of the frame, the replacement barrels were certainly not correctly fitted, as there is a gap between the standing breech and barrel breeches and the rib extension is too short and doesn't fit the frame cut (and they've also been shortened-the gun was originally shipped with 30" barrels). As Hunter's Type I auto-ejector are problematic, I've suggested to the owner that he find a later set of 30" OOE Grade barrels with Type II ejector iron and have those barrels fitted to his frame. It's not uncommon to find an A-1 Grade Smith gun with a factory fitted Type II ejector iron (have owned one myself); and I've seen two A-1 guns with a second factory fitted set of OO Grade barrels. Anyone who studies Smith guns is aware that Hunter Arms would install a lower grade set of barrels to a higher grade gun on customer request; and given that extra barrel sets were typically priced at 1/2 the cost of a given gun grade, customers often made such request to save a few bucks. That said, the current owner is dead set on keeping his A-1 barrels and having then correctly fitted.