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JUST TRYING TO COME UP WITH A GOOD SOLID FIX FOR SIDE BY SIDES (ESP FOX) THAT ARE SLIGHTLY LOOSE--wobble side to side just a little-- WHEN OPEN. BOTH ARE TIGHT WITH LEVER TO THE RIGHT WHEN CLOSED, ON FACE. THIS MAY BE A NERDY THING OF MINE. THANKS! GIL
Posted By: oskar Re: FIX FOR S X S/ loose when open - 05/06/21 07:14 PM
I don't understand the problem if it is tight when closed.
Posted By: David Williamson Re: FIX FOR S X S/ loose when open - 05/06/21 07:46 PM
Most are slightly loose when opened.
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: FIX FOR S X S/ loose when open - 05/06/21 09:53 PM
The most important thing, as I've always understood it, is that it be on face even when the forend is off the gun. The forend iron, if fitted right and not excessively worn, will push the barrels tighter against the breech than they may be when the forend is detached from the gun. Thus, we check for off face, and looseness, with it off. With it off, if you grip the action in one hand, holding the barrels toward the ceiling/sky, and shake it lightly from side to side, you should feel no movement in the action. Then hold the gun horizontal with a strong light source behind it and look for daylight between the barrel breeches and the breech face of the action. Any daylight seen, or looseness felt when shaking, is a cause for concern. OTOH, if you feel no looseness in the action and can see no daylight at the breech at all, put your forend back on and go enjoy the gun. To further complicate the issue, a gun can be on face but have a bit of looseness when you shake it, but it'll be off face soon if you keep shooting it, you can be sure.

Be aware that a gun going off face, in the early stages, may be off face on one barrel only. I have seen doubles that were tight on face, with the top lever even a bit to the left of center, that felt loose when opened for loading. I don't like this, but it is not a cause for immediate concern, IMO. However, if the barrels are off face, even a tiny bit, it needs to be addressed before shooting it any more.

I hope that has not confused you further. I'm no Michael McIntosh when to comes to explaining the workings of a doublegun, I'm afraid.
Posted By: gunut Re: FIX FOR S X S/ loose when open - 05/06/21 11:31 PM
close the gun and dont dwell on it....or make some gun blacksmith rich...
Posted By: Mike Rowe Re: FIX FOR S X S/ loose when open - 05/07/21 02:29 AM
That's a curious comment, gunut. Care to expand on it?
Posted By: canvasback Re: FIX FOR S X S/ loose when open - 05/07/21 02:40 AM
Originally Posted by gunut
close the gun and dont dwell on it....or make some gun blacksmith rich...

Right. Because I’ve met so many rich gunsmiths. Just rolling in the dough.
Posted By: gunut Re: FIX FOR S X S/ loose when open - 05/07/21 03:28 AM
A barely perceivable side to side wiggle with the forend off is nothing to run to the gunsmith about.....especially on a field grade hunting gun....
Posted By: damascus Re: FIX FOR S X S/ loose when open - 05/07/21 09:22 AM
This slight fault can come up a few years a gun has been re jointed, or is just a case of normal knuckle joint ware. Just to make certain that the gun is correctly on face there is a little used trick of the trade that was commonly used but has now fallen out of use not because it was not a good method for a quick check rather that the product used is now not so easy to obtain though if you know where to look you can still purchase a box for little cost. If I said typewriter carbon duplicating paper would you folks know what I was talking about, if you do a piece covering the guns breach with the duplicating surface facing the barrels and the gun closed it will leave marks on the barrel face that is tight against the breach face. It is not a substitute for the traditional smoke lamp but a quick way of getting a yes no status of the barrel to breach fit.If the breach fit is passable the fault can be found with the fore end iron because when rejoining the the pressure that is normally applied by the Iron to the knuckle joint is increased making the joint become tighter and is released by filing the the barrel catch slot in the Iron. Now if this slot is not filed correctly and leaving a little bearing surface the constant on and off of the guns fore end, ware here will cause the knuckle joint pressure to lessen causing lateral movement when the breach is open. This sort of movement is also caused by normal ware and tear, the cure is simple but it does not appeal to some folks because it involves a punch and a hammer. The late Jack Rowe and Larry Potterfield made a short video that can be found on u tube showing how to improve the irons tension on the guns knuckle joint. Though like others have said if it is not much of a movement leave well alone.
Posted By: SKB Re: FIX FOR S X S/ loose when open - 05/07/21 10:37 AM
Originally Posted by canvasback
Originally Posted by gunut
close the gun and dont dwell on it....or make some gun blacksmith rich...

Right. Because I’ve met so many rich gunsmiths. Just rolling in the dough.


Your letting our secret out James. I had considered a career in hedge fund management but gunmaking looked more lucrative wink
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: FIX FOR S X S/ loose when open - 05/07/21 10:38 AM
Larry Potterfield, not Harry. Harry's the fictitious movie celeb. Spellcheck may've gotcha.
Posted By: Nitrah Re: FIX FOR S X S/ loose when open - 05/07/21 01:12 PM
I shot at a club years ago without my guns. Their rental was a beretta o/u that was tight when closed but so loose and wobbly when open I thought it would fall apart. Whether through mishandling, I assume guys let it fall open hard and slam closed, or just use the trunnions had become worn and not replaced. I don't think, at least in the Beretta design, one thing affects the other, in other words it can be loose when open and still lock up tight when closed.
Posted By: DoubleTake Re: FIX FOR S X S/ loose when open - 05/07/21 01:35 PM
My Beretta opens easy and locks tight.

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Posted By: canvasback Re: FIX FOR S X S/ loose when open - 05/07/21 02:07 PM
Originally Posted by gunut
A barely perceivable side to side wiggle with the forend off is nothing to run to the gunsmith about.....especially on a field grade hunting gun....

It's the ridiculous inference you were making about gunsmiths getting rich that a few of us objected to. Not whether the OP has a real problem or an easily fixed problem. Have you ever met a wealthy gunsmith who earns his living by fixing guns?
Posted By: lonesome roads Re: FIX FOR S X S/ loose when open - 05/07/21 03:08 PM
Originally Posted by canvasback
Originally Posted by gunut
A barely perceivable side to side wiggle with the forend off is nothing to run to the gunsmith about.....especially on a field grade hunting gun....

It's the ridiculous inference you were making about gunsmiths getting rich that a few of us objected to. Not whether the OP has a real problem or an easily fixed problem. Have you ever met a wealthy gunsmith who earns his living by fixing guns?

If he has a side hustle?

(see thread below)


____________________________
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Posted By: gunut Re: FIX FOR S X S/ loose when open - 05/07/21 03:10 PM
Suppose I could of worded it better....all I meant was dont go throwing money at a really non existent problem.....dont know any real rich gunsmiths....but do use a few truly fine ones.......Dennis Potter....Hugh Lomas....Glenn Fewless
Posted By: lonesome roads Re: FIX FOR S X S/ loose when open - 05/07/21 03:17 PM
Originally Posted by gunut
Suppose I could of worded it better....all I meant was dont go throwing money at a really non existent problem.....dont know any real rich gunsmiths....but do use a few truly fine ones.......Dennis Potter....Hugh Lomas....Glenn Fewless

Was obvious I think to most of us.


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(deleted)
Posted By: canvasback Re: FIX FOR S X S/ loose when open - 05/07/21 04:41 PM
Originally Posted by lonesome roads
Was obvious I think to most of us.


___________________________

The dogs bark but the caravan moves on.
Posted By: lonesome roads Re: FIX FOR S X S/ loose when open - 05/07/21 06:07 PM
Originally Posted by canvasback
Originally Posted by lonesome roads
Was obvious I think to most of us.


___________________________

The dogs bark but the caravan moves on.

What does sore feet and minivans have to do with any of this?


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Obviously oblivious.
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