One of my grandsons who turns 5 today (Happy Birthday, pal) calls the 4WD Tacoma that I bought new 24 years ago, "Poppa's huntin' truck".

I see that Prince Philip had one as well. And while it was loaded with a list of features including custom "bronze green" paint and was referred to as a "gun bus" (mine is also customized but with scratches, dings, dents and chips - all honest earned) his turned out to be a most appropriate hearse for his final outing.



My 2 year old grandson, despite its 31" tires, has taught himself to climb up into the front seat and sit there waiting on me while repeating, "Ride. Ride. Ride." I may have to give some thought to mine also providing a final ride before it goes to my eldest son.

Prince Philip's funeral procession certainly was colorful. I suspect the colors at mine might lean more toward blaze orange and camo.

Do you have your own personal gun bus/huntin' truck that you might consider for similar duty?

I split my life between remote parts of Kenya where I drive a Landcruiser pickup, and the Bay Area, where for many years I had a Porsche 944. Accustomed to driving roadless bush in Africa, I often found myself taking the Porsche to places in the US West where no sports cars should go. I once showed up at a friend's house in SF with four dead pigs laid out in the back of the 944.

Waaaay too much class for me, but pretty cool
https://www.hagerty.com/media/archived/quail-hunting-cars-at-amelia-island/

https://bestride.com/news/entertainment/the-first-king-ranch-branded-vehicle-was-a-buick

https://forums.aaca.org/topic/293374-king-ranch-buick/

Have two Land Cruisers, a 94 and a 95. Close to indestructible. Spare tire winch design is my only complaint.

"Yotas" have gotten too expensive on account of the fanboy crowd so I bought one of these:



Manual trans, 4WD, locking hubs and pretty much all so equipped. Bottom ends that go 250K if you adjust the valves and replace timing belts.

Or longer, Dan. I had a friend who used one for nine years as a rural mail carrier west of Laramie, WY. His first delivery was more than thirty miles from the post office, so the miles piled up quickly, and his never gave him an issue on the many miles of unsaved road - or two tracks that passed as roads.

My first hunting rig, well that had 4 wheel drive, bought ~1980 with my first reenlistment bonus. 1977 FJ55 Iron Pig.



Current Taco although she is getting long in the tooth she still gots it and gets 'er done



First thing did was ripped out the bench seat and made a platform for the dog and store recovery gear and guns.



Rock sliders are set at zero degrees to help prevent damage from lateral slides on icy trails, not pivoting off rocks.

Up until I hit 60 the dog and I would often sleep in the back while hunting.



Not anymore, bones don't care for it and I don't either. I get a cabin for a month or more. And got tired of beating up the truck. And myself in it. Couple of years ago went with a Polaris Northstar Ranger and built a dog box for the back.



Best hunting rig have ever owned, should have done it sooner. Taco is now a tow vehicle. Will replace it in a couple of years with something along the lines of my first 4x4 thinking a Lexus GX or 4Runner. Will likely be my last vehicle ever.

This one's been here before. Bought it new in 2001. The clean picture:



and, the more normal one:



At about 130k now and still working well.

During the fall, winter and spring it collects mud and remains unwashed. Okay, parts of summer, too. The cradle mounted winch can be mounted in the front as depicted or in the rear hitch which also has a power receptacle. During turkey season, the hardtail Cannondale is carried on the hitch mounted carrier for limited access areas. The rear of my 2003 Sequoia 4X4 is in the front of the 4Runner. The Warn 8500 winch can also be used on the front or back of it.

Those troopers are amazing! I am about to finish my willys wagon and will be using that

Dodge PowerWagon. Mother ship for our group hunting trips. Goes just about anywhere it will fit. Roof rack for my casket.

'87 Jeep Wrangler
350 cid Chevy engine w/ Edelbrock intake and Edelbrock 4 barrel
TH350 Chevy tranny and Dana transfer case
12.50 X 35 tires (tires shown in pics are 12.50 33s)
4.56 gears
Ramsey 8000 lb. front winch
3M Camo wrap (has been removed because it didn't last)
10 mpg, like I care







Gets us there ................ AND back.

My Granddaughter calls it the "Magic Van" anytime she wanted some candy I usually had a couple stashed somewhere.

Ford 3/4 ton with posi-traction and a set of V-bar chains gets me just about anywhere. It is set up with a solar panel, propane furnace, bunk, table, cabinets and locking gun rack. I can park anywhere, no need for electricity, I have probably saved the cost of the vehicle in camping and motel fees.

Inside


And if I can't get the truck there this does the trick.

"Dead a pair" and "Hang 'em high" op words for that maneuver" well done, Sir.

not too shabby there, Stan. I like the modified Jeep in camo ALMOST as much as I do your JD8000 series?? tractor in the bckground. And your Grandson sitting down with a open breeched .410 side-by-side says it all-I might be able to hit hem with a 20 bore, but with a .410-doubtful--RWTF

Tacoma 4x4. Now and forever. Also doubles as a fine fishin' truck too.

This thread has certainly brought back good memories of a lot of good days in a variety of "huntin' trucks". Counting back I've had 3 Jeeps (CJ-5, CJ-7, & a Cherokee), 2 Land Rovers (a long wheel base station wagon & a SWB 2-door) and 5 Toyotas (4 Tacoma/Hilux and 1 4Runner). All 4WD.

The CJ-5 was my primary vehicle during my waterfowl years with Charlie (my black lab) sitting shotgun and the canvas covered back filled with decoys, waders and gun & gear.



The Land Rovers were both Series IIA models with the 2.25L 4 cyl petrol engines and the old style headlights positioned between the "wings." I was a passable double clutcher from my boyhood farm years but I became a double clutching fool after these two vehicles. They had 4 speed trans but non syncho 1st and 2nd gears and particularly on steep mountain tracks or long stretches of sand they required A LOT of shifting because of the underpowered engines (and you'd better be smooth and quick or you'd lose momentum and be in trouble.) They also both had manual engine cranks that got more use than you might imagine. Deep in the bush and far from any help, it was reassuring to be able to crank the "car" back to life when you crawled out of your bedroll to a dead battery. Also, (and I mean no offense to our British brothers here), you'd better be a pretty decent mechanic. It was always something. I carried two tool boxes and a small spares store with me including shackle bolts and half shafts. They did love to snap axles. This is the SWB 40 years ago literally on the back side of the desert (the Kalahari). 4WD Hilux in the background. Eldest son finding a quiet place to read.



The same “little fellow” somewhere above 12,000' with Dad.




And as for the Tacoma/Hilux/4Runner(Gen 1-4) family of vehicles. Nothing to say. They just go.

Francis, that pic of grandson Jackson was when he was age 9. That was after his first dove shoot where he actually shot a gun. He had been on many with me as a "bird shagger", but had never shot for himself. He killed nine, fair chase. His younger brother, several years later, killed the limit on his first shoot. That is just unheard of.

The Jeep has been haranguing me with a problem for a couple years. The battery would just go dead all of a sudden for no apparent reason. I was recharging the battery today and was moving wires around, and saw an arc. I moved them some more and saw that the big, red lead from the battery to the winch was touching the exhaust manifold and the heat had actually burned through the insulation and the inside copper core was grounding on the exhaust manifold. I put two layers of heat shrink on it, tied it away from the manifold, and called it a successful repair.

You have good eyes. That JD in the background is an 8400 that was hooked to a KMC peanut combine. Evidently the pic was taken in October/November.

Best, Stan

oscar, I'm curious as to why you shoot so many coyotes. Do you hunt deer, and do all you can to deplete the number of fawn predators, or is there another motivating factor? I understand it's legal to shoot them, and I'm not belittling you, I'm just trying to understand the motivation behind it.

Thanks, Stan

1986 CJ-7 - India 3 years, Greece 3 years, Italy 2 years, Dalmatian Coast, Crete, Bulgaria, Turkey, USA...25 years of going everywhere, coast, sand, rock, mountain, forest, rocky passes, Marathon beach...Croatia just after the war...hunting the Gangetic plain.. In Europe I could hunt, cruise, crawl...and pull up to an opera and everyone would be looking at the Jeep, not the Rolls behind me.

FallCreek - my Series IIA Landrover made a mechanic and a Landcruiser driver out of me. "If you want to drive a hundred miles into the bush, buy a Landrover. If you want to get home again, buy a Landcruiser." You start repairing a Landrover the day after driving it out of the showroom. My LR's only saving grace was that it usually waited until I reached Nairobi before self-destructing; the chassis once broke in half as I pulled into a friend's driveway. You always carried spare front axles (halfshafts) because even after thirty years of breaking, Landrover could not bring itself to make them slightly thicker.

The Series III LR with the Range Rover suspension was an instant hit when it arrived in East Africa in the early 1980's because they were so comfortable compared to the brutal ride of the Series II's. However nearly everyone who bought one rolled it within weeks because they unwittingly drove far too fast for the 'road' conditions. I have to admit, however, that I have twice tipped a Landcruiser driving at a perfectly reasonable speed going downhill on a gravel surface, and the same happened to my field assistant in another one - they suddenly go sideways and the high center of gravity just pulls them over. Another time I was carrying three drums of diesel in the back and tipped over on a muddy slope.

LC's are as close to indestructible as a vehicle can be; you can count on several years of heavy use on appalling roads before anything goes wrong. I am still driving a 2002 pickup with probably a couple hundred thousand of bush miles on it (odometer died once or twice), albeit after an engine rebuild and a new transmission. And the African tradition of gas stations adulterating diesel with much cheaper kerosene makes for occasional new fuel pumps.

Just to set the record straight, Prince Philip's bier was a Land Rover Defender TD5 130 chassis cab vehicle, which was made at Land Rover’s factory in Solihull in 2003.

J.K.B. von Falkenhorst

Ah, the romance of a LR. The straight lines and flat surfaces of the first ones were the result of LR's use of surplus aluminum sheets left over from wartime aircraft construction. Originally designed and used as farming equipment. The cheetah on the roof was optional. Gil

78 Scout. It's a little wet in the rain, but that's part of the "romance" of an old Scout.

Stan, I hunt them for the furs. What I don't sell, I sew into stuff, right now I'm getting ready to make a throw for my wife, just need to get the last batch of fur back from the tannery. I do do an occasional ADC job for a rancher. I'm an old trapper but they keep taking away my right to trap soo I keep my hand in it predator hunting.

As an old hand at predator trapping for furs I can appreciate your answer.

Thanks, oscar

Never have been involved in predator hunting for the furs-never have trapped in my long life, no plans too. But as some of my fondest boyhood memories afield with Dad involved watching him vaporize fox, coyote, feral cats and woodchucks with his M70SG .220 Swift (Lyman 10X scope) and handloaded 50 grainers, I suspose that ordnance and my SakO 759 BA in .243Win with Leupold Vari-X111 4x12 might not be the best choice if one wanted to make $ in the wild fur trade today. So, I guess son-in-law and yours truly will be looking at another spring-summer evening season, this time with my 16 year old grandson, of vaporizing critters. He gets the .220Swift (his Dad is a Leftie), so he shoots a plastic stocked Rem 700 custom BA700 LH series with, surprise, surprise, another Vari-X 3 Leupold. I would rather have a week in late summer near Sturgis SD with unlimited ammo and hunting opportunities than a week in MT in Oct for mule deer and elk-RWTF

When my time comes and you hold my wake- remember, my favorite beer is Warsteiner--Die Konigen auf dem Bieren..

I kept a Scout for a hunting truck for 20+ years. It had 200,000 miles on it when I gave it to my hunting partners father for a farm hunting truck for deer season. The frame broke on day when crossing a ditch. Why go around? They pulled it back to the shed and welded metal across the broken frame. Truck lasted another six years until Mr. Jack passed away. For all I know it is still in use but most likely it’s parked in the edge of the woods in retirement like several other old vehicles on that farm. Loved those Scouts. Today I have a couple trailblazers for hunting trucks. 200,000 miles and still running strong.

I'm used to making modifications to farm equipment, boats, whatever, to make them more suitable to my uses/needs. Thus, the hybrid Jeep Wrangler/Chevy combo. It's powerful enough to pull a boat, especially with the low gears. Very drivable with it's power steering and automatic tranny, and dependable. Biggest drawback is that it only holds 12 gallons of gas, full to the top. Heat, but no a/c. For summertime use I unbolt the hardtop and take it off. Can't get my wife to ride in it anymore ......... but, that's ok too.

Stan

Watch it now ... it may be springtime in GA but you can still get yourself on thin ice. 😉

Interesting abut ripping out the bench seat. I was thinking Chevy Colorado about a year and a half ago when I went truck shopping. Where I live, the Chevy and Toyota stores are side by side and under the same management. The reason I initially thought Colorado was because there were leftover 2018's at pretty deep discounts. Told the saleslady that I was basically looking for a pretty bare bones truck as a hunting vehicle. Turns out Chevy doesn't offer any Colorados like that. She then said they had a brand new bare bones Tacoma "work truck" I could buy cheaper than the least expensive 2018 Colorado. Drove it. Liked it a lot. Not getting those little jump seats in my extended cab Tacoma--which I didn't want anyhow--saved me $2500. And it is bare bones. About the only thing I miss are intermittent windshield wipers. I didn't know they even made vehicles without those. I'd jokingly asked her if I could get crank windows--which I had on the bare bones Ford Ranger I traded. Those aren't available. My Toyota doesn't have keyless entry. Although that doesn't bother me, there's no key slot on the outside of the passenger door. Other than that, I'm pleased with my choice--and I don't miss any of the other options it doesn't have.

Awhile back the 5 year old was going somewhere with me in the “huntin’ truck” and asked, “Poppa, what’s that?”

He was pointing at the window crank. 😁
The next generation won’t even know what they are.

Many car mags and "gurus" decry Tacoma and 4Runner for the failure of Toyota to upgrade electronics and drive trains compared with the mags Cars/Trucks of the Year selections. This "failure" is exactly why I'm a Toyota fan. If it ain't broke, don't "fix" it. Gil

This is John Robert's hunting rig that he asked me to post the picture of. I had a very similar one. The engine is almost rock proof. Great vehicle. Plenty power, ground clearance, lots of room (all weatherproof).

He will likely elaborate on it.

Larry, here is the mod for adding intermittent windshield wipers to your Tacoma (you have a 3rd Gen Tacoma): https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/2016-2018-3rd-gen-intermittent-wiper-mod.397942/

My Jeep Wrangler has two settings for the wipers, low and high. What is this "intermittent"

On my FJ55 got tired of replacing the bronze valve guides less than 20k miles in the 2F Engine and dropped a 350 in her. Found a 4 bolt main crank engine in Seattle and had her acid dipped. Then built it up with the Edelbrock kit. Everyone else was doing high end at the Navy auto hobby shop, I went with the Edelbrock low end kit. 2$ a day included all tools. I put a Holly 650 4 barrel on it. Man A Fre also made a conversion kit for a Hydromatic tranny but stayed with the manual. Like getting out in the mud to lock the hubs in just trusted them more. 8 MPG was average on a good day. Could do a lot better if I could my foot out of the secondaries.

Like Ron White says I had the right to, but just couldn't help myself LOL.

The picture of my Iron Pig FJ55 is 28 miles South of Falls Creek NY. If you didn't shoot an Ithaca in the 60's and early 70's back there then you were considered some type of Communist LOL. Purchased the pig when I reenlisted in Bremerton Wa. and in 83 made the World Cruise and they flew me back to pick up my rig and worldly possessions. Driving back to the East coast with a small U Haul trailer with all my worldly possessions, guns, reloading equipment, camping equipment, fishing gear, etc . Going up the Mountain to Salt Lake City passed a VW bug that had a bumper sticker that said just think you could had a V8. Remember those commercials and ads? Not much further up the road started to pass another vehicle a Broco and looked over to see a Utah State trooper with his smokey bear hat on and he turned to look at me and shook his head no. I pulled in behind him.


Well if you are in Washington State you would know LOL. There were no intermittent wipers back then and it was one of my first experiences with modifying the electrical system. They ROCK!


Preach it brother!



Always liked the work trucks. My dream truck for many years was something you could put a hose into and pull the plugs out of the floor pan to let the water drain.

Now I want comfort. Damn I have turned into my father LOL.

When I got the Polaris Ranger they had an option for electric door handles. Get the hell out of here!? Solid decline. Just another thing to go wrong over time.

"I had the right to remain silent, but I didn't have the ability". Ron White

Best line by a stand-up comic, ever ..............

Mike, if I’d known all this I would have taken a closer look at your ride when we were up on the Minnesota coast. Instead I was mesmerized by the steaks!

Thanks Stan for posting the pic. This is a 2001 Cherokee, the last year of the old version. 4.0 fuel injected straight six that came from the AMC bin decades ago, one of the world's best internal combustion engines ever made. I drive it daily everywhere. I cannot tell y'all how well this Jeep has served me in the woods and anywhere else. I don't ask too much of it, but it's been through its share of rough duty. It ain't goin' away anytime soon, afaic.
JR

They don't fit everywhere, but I've always went with pickups. The gear and other odds and ends, eat up space quickly.

My favorite was straight six Ford with a granny low first gear, it could go very slowly. It was difficult to stall, but if it did, I could leave it in gear and just bump the ignition and it would just start moving again, really handy if pushing in the clutch would make it shift on a grade.

For now, I have to stick with the drive train of a three quarter ton. Everything is a bit sturdier, not for bashing around, but for a little cushion against odds and ends that turn up. Last year, I broke a front axle going through a tough muddy stretch. I saw the tire stop throwing mud, but it held together. I made a good hour drive back to familiar grounds, and got it to a shop later. Priceless.

Got to carry tools, straps, stuff, just in case.

Can you imagine what the gear ratio is on the Jeep when I put it in Low 4WD, with 4.56 gears in the chunk? Stump pulling power. In High range it will swap ends with you on a dirt road if you romp down on it.

Pickups are my everyday vehicle on the farm. I've got two F250s, both with 6.2L gasoline engines. The 2011 has 277K miles on it, farm miles, with no engine work. The 2013 has 137k, with the same amount of engine attention. The 6.2L gas engine may just be the best engine Ford ever built. About 400 hp, and almost the same in torque. It's a long lasting hoss.

Stan

James I look forward to cooking some more steaks for you someday. Hopefully soon!

You are my brother to the North and while we didn't get much time to together as I would have liked, you are the one that woke me up to the SxS guns. And a lot of other things. The others around us looked at us confused while we were talking. You truly are my brother of another mother. Although not sure if I should curse you for directing down the rabbit hole of SxS guns or thank you LOL.

That is not true, I can not thank you enough!

Oh and we didn't even touch on footwear. And lasts, support etc. I live in Crispi boots with ankle bone support system once I blew out my ankles. That is for another discussion.

Spent 20 years wearing boots made by the cheapest bidder. Did not do me any favors.

Wore a suit for 20 years after I retired from the Navy. Never could get over the pointed toe Italian shoes or made in China shoes which can only be described as clown shoes. To me.

I wear Allen Edmonds shoes and boots when I have to go into work, many made with horses arse, I love cordovan shell.

The Park Avenue is good enough for enough for inauguration of US Presidents. Well at least the conservative ones. Not going to touch on the whacked out Left ones. But if it is good enough for the ones that I am willing to follow into combat it is good enough for me.



Brother James once the border is open again I look forward to meeting you once again. And promise I will cook you the best prime ribeye that is available. Anywhere. To say that that I enjoy listening to your knowledge and experience with SxS guns and life in general is an understatement.

If I had to find me another hunting rig I would be looking for a 4WD Tahoe or Yukon. The older ones sell for chicken scratch around here. One of my hunting buds bought one recently, an '05 I think, Vortec V-8, leather seats, a/c, good tires, no dents and good paint for $2000. IMO they are a deal, because nobody wants to buy one due to their poor gas mileage.

Mike, a man after my own heart! After almost 5 years retired from the footwear business, I finally had to go into a store and buy a pair of shoes a few months ago. First time in well over 25 years. Almost seemed like a novel experience. LOL One great thing about my career is I rarely had to wear uncomfortable shoes. The perks of one's career. After starting in the golf business in the late 1970's I've played golf my entire adult life and never bought golf balls......I'm just starting to run out now and we exited golf in 1991.

But, getting back on topic. I am, for the first time since the early 1990's, without an SUV. My 2003 Pathfinder gave up the ghost last year. I've been waffling between a choosing a pick up or another SUV. Up here, in the land of ridiculous gas prices, I'm actually considering a Tahoe Hybrid. Looking at a 2011 model right now. I need something with relatively generous towing capacity, thus the larger size SUV. I like the gas mileage. I hate the electronics. Whatever, I get I can't wait to get back down to the land of the free! (relatively speaking these days).

The single worst truck I owned was a 1990 Grand Wagoneer Jeep with the "J" in Jeep spoken with the Spanish pronunciation. The only almost good thing about it was its 7/70K warranty which didn't cover much but came in handy at the end. It was an old carburetor model, Navy Blue with the fake wood grain siding. The same model was used in Old Navy TV Commercials around Christmas season. The carburetor was rebuilt 5 times during my ownership as the mechanic said that it had a part that gas dissolved. No kidding. It was 1997 and my father-in-law was dying in Louisville, GA, 120 miles from home. Louisa was already there and I was to bring the kids. The Jeep had 69,900 miles on it, just under the warranty limit. Early Saturday morning I took it to the dealer to go over and do all maintenance necessary and check for potential warranty issues while it was still in warranty. The oil pan was removed to replace a small filter inside the crankcase. When I was 30 miles out of town I noticed no oil pressure and checked the oil's dipstick. I had a full stick and called the dealer who told me it was probably okay and when they went over the engine they make have loosened a connection to the oil pressure sending unit. By the time I got to Louisville, I was over the 70K and the engine was making noises. I flatbedded the truck back to the dealer who told me I had burned up the crankshaft due to oil starvation and I was just over the 70K warranty so "too bad" for me. A buddy's son is a factory trained mechanic and he told me that when they resealed the oil pan the morning of the trip, it was done with a silicone cement and some of it clogged the oil pick up starving the engine of oil. He had seen this happen. The dealer gave me Chrysler/Jeep's Southeastern Rep phone number who attended the tear down when I raised hell. I told the rep what had happened. The crankshaft was shot. The rep said that the dealer was still sticking with its story that they did nothing wrong that morning while inside the engine with the oil pan off, but they would rebuild the engine with a new crankshaft and replace parts unaffected but recommended to be replaced. The cost to me would be $250. "Book'em, Dano". I paid the $250 and got $8,500 in trade in the following week on a 1997 but used Toyota T100 4X4 truck. I drove that truck until 2010 when with 177,000 miles I applied it to a new Subaru Outback for my daughter and received $4,000 credit on the Outback and a check for $250 when the engine in the T100 was destroyed as required by the Cash for Clunker Program. I had bought the Jeep from my hunting and fishing buddies in the used car business and they knew all about my problems with the Jeep. They took the Jeep in trade, like the men they are, without batting an eye for the T100. In 2003, they helped me buy a Toyota Sequoia 4X4 from a dealer at a $100 over invoice. The dealer was from another town who ferried it to my home for the check. I still drive the Sequoia with 226,000 miles but also have a 2016 4Runner which is my main ride. Toyota: "Oh, what a feeling." Incidentally, the 4Runner and the Land Cruiser are the last two Toyotas made in Japan for the US market. All the rest are made in the Western Hemisphere--Mexico, US and Canada. When I cross the Savannah River Bridge going over to Floyd's in SC, from the bridge one can see on the loading docks hundreds of Toyotas made in the US ready for loading on ships for transport to Africa where they are sold. They are all right hand drive according to what a Coast Guard inspector told me. Gil

Over the past 30 odd years, I have owned-in a row, 5 used Ford Rangers-- all std cab, 5 spd. 4 bangers- bought 'em used from a one owner, mostly had 125K miles, ran 'em for years driving to my work welding at powerplants and boiler shops in WMich. I also owned a Ford Bronco II- went 250K on it, had the FI V-6 and manual hubs- it's still up at our deer hunting property near Mio-runnig like a Rolex- Not too impressed with the newer Bronco-but thanks to the goofy marketing structure of the used vehicle market afoot, I can get in cash money, more than I paid for the current 2009 Ranger in my driveway than I paid for it 5 years and 65K miles ago. I don't baby those Rangers, gas, oil changes, replacement tires, batteries- but they are a very low maintenance $ vehicle--and like redheads, there's just something about them that I like- Very Much!! RWTF

Foxie,
For me, I know what it is about Rangers, I can get into them. I switched from F-series when I couldn't raise my right leg high enough to climb in. I'm driving my second Ranger now, looking for the third. I have to get another one when I have to buy more oil than gas. I wouldn't mind if they used it, they waste it by running onto the ground past the main bearings. None of the other problems bother me, except I would like an extended cab, so I could carry a small tool box and floor jack. The 95 I have now doesn't have the room behind the seat that the first one had. You mentioned a 5 speed transmission above, I much prefer the 4 speed with overdrive, the 5 speeds are coupled so close together I can't tell which gear I'm in. As for changing to an automatic transmission, I may have to, but With the 4 speed I can start it with no battery by rolling it down a very small incline, where I would be dead in the water with an automatic. New Rangers are as high as a F100, so I need an old one. Sorry about the rambling, it was just on my mind.
Mike

The old Mazda pick-ups were rebadged Rangers. Find'em if you can. Gil

Yotas, Yotas and more Yotas for me, nothing else since 96 or so. I have had 80's vintage pick ups, several 4 runners, a T100 and a couple of Tacomas. I'm running 2004 Tacoma extra cab now with the TRD package, that truck goes anywhere with 4wd and a locking rear diff as long as you do not high center it. Next truck will either be another runner or a double cab Tacoma. My only complaint on the current ride is it is a bit small in the cab. You certainly pay a premium for a Toyata truck but in my mind it pays off due to the reliability the are so famous for.

The durability of the new Ranger gives me concern with its turbocharger. Time will tell. Gil

There was reported to be a second identical LR in the wings waiting to take over if the worst should have happened.

I met my wife in a Warsteiner bar in Munich.

I did have one great hunting truck before converting to Toyotas, a 1974 Ford Bronco. I was the 3rd owner and had it restored. Slant 6, 3 on the tree with the tow package which included a larger radiator, a heavy duty clutch and a granny gear. Top speed in first gear 2wd was about 12 mph, 2nd gear from single digitits to about 40 mph and that thing topped out in 3rd at 60 mph. A great truck off road but not a good daily driver.

Hi centered is the key phrase SKB. That is why I remove the spare on my Landcruisers for winter driving. That is where they can get hung up in deep snow, converting your vehicle instantly into two-wheel drive. At least its easier to shovel out the rear instead of the center.
The spare tire winch on my '85 was so rusted out from neglect or lack of use that I had to have it cut out with a torch to drop the spare. Don't know what to replace that winch with as they are not available. Any suggestions appreciated!

Hal, there's more than a handful of rear tire mount conversions. Not cheap as they involve bumper replacement. A quick search on Ebay for Landcruiser spare tire winch didn't connect for 1985, but had later years if that would help. Any way to McGyver another maker's tire winch? There are many and don't appear to be expensive. Gil

Spare tire? Ha! Don't y'all know that if you don't carry a spare you won't have a flat? I thought everybody knew that. Carry a spare and you're asking for tire troubles.

What, me worry? A. E. Neuman

And they keep their resale value pretty well too. Also IMO, Toyota tends to care what the public thinks of their product, so if there is something wrong, they take good measures to fix it. In 2008 Toyota bought my 99 Tacoma back off me for 1.5 times the blue book value because of frame rust issues with that model. That ended being a down payment on a 2005 Tacoma.

So that’s why I had so many flats. 🤓 I always carried two and have made it back to town more than once having used both of them.

(I also carried a hydraulic jack and a highlift jack, plus a shovel and a tow strap.)

Well, there it is, FCF. Ditch all that crap and go minimalist, and your troubles will be gone.

Seriously, I took the spare off of the rear door when I bought the Jeep and it hasn't ridden with me since. That's been a long time, and never had a flat. I will admit that I'm not in a rocky environment, though.

Thanks, Stan, for helping me start thinking straight. Now I understand why I got such terrible gas mileage on the old Land Rovers. I always carried 4 20Liter jerrycans of petrol. 🤣

You've got to run anything to flat empty a few times before you can know just how far one will go after the gauge hand hits "E". No kidding. I ran the old 2011 F250 empty again last week and had to call for help on the roadside. My son was riding with me and said "Well, I guess you're out of gas .............again".

When I die I 'spect there won't be a fortune in paid up gasoline left in the vehicles ..................

Hey Stan, I've gotten stranded twice in spots with zero cell service, on paved roads. One time I hit a deer and the truck dumped most of its fluids, the other, lost an alternator, not a good feeling. One of the times, no one drove by for nearly three hours, luckily things were getting figured out by them.

I never pushed the fuel limit, just start getting the mindset that there are some places with few options. My boy and I got stuck in a white out on a mountain pass. A four hour chip shot turned into over seven hours, and six of those hours, not a hint of a gas stop. The temperature dropped from the mid fifties to the low single digits, and no bars on the phone for way over half the time. It was a duck hunting trip. I told my boy we just got shut down, but he insisted we go out the next morning. The knee deep flats, we waded two days earlier, were solid walkable ice. I told my son not to test it out, but I was half hoping he would break through, because of how great he used to listen sometimes.

I know things like that can happen, craig. My comments, tho' true, were a bit tongue-in-cheek. When I'm way off from home I don't roll the dice with the gas gauge. But, just in case the unexpected happens and I find myself low on fuel with no stations around, my 2013 F250 will go 37 miles (at 55 mph) after it says "0 MILES TO EMPTY". I've proven that a couple times. Everyone should run their vehicle out once so they will know just how far it will go on empty. Good stuff to know. It, and the 2011, have 35 gallon gas tanks. I've driven to a gas station and put 35.2 gallons in them more than once. That's pretty much runnin' on vapors.

My son and I have several little engines on nurse tank pumps and such to keep gas in so we try to keep a 2 gal. jug of gas in the back of the truck all the time. It's gotten me out of a tight spot many times. That Jeep Wrangler has a gas gauge that plays fast and loose with the truth. Once it stranded me on the side of the road, with my wife riding, and the hand still said 1/4 full. That's one reason she won't ride in it with me anymore. She thought it was terribly embarrassing. Anymore, I just reset the trip odometer to 0 when I fill it up. When she hits 120 miles I start looking for a gas pump.

On a side note, I once found myself stranded miles from home while checking predator traps. A driveshaft universal joint had broken, letting the back end of the driveshaft fall from the differential onto the road. I had zero tools with me, save for a pair of pliers. I found a piece of heavy trapping wire, somewhere in the back of the truck, and looped it a few times around a crossmember, above and near the rear end of the driveshaft, making a hanger of sorts for the driveshaft that would allow it to turn slowly while hanging. I got in the truck, put it in 4WD and drove it real slow back home, letting the front axle pull the truck. As long as I drove slow the driveshaft would just spin in the wire loop, but if I got too fast it would start jumping around bad. More good stuff to "tattoo on your brain, Vern", as Ernest P. Worrell used to say.

We followed my father’s casket to the cemetery in “Old Blue” his ‘64 International pickup (short bed, step side), that I drove for years, and then sold back to him for the restoration. 152 slant 4, single barrel carb. 3 speed, non synchro.
Exactly like this one:


I still have it in the barn.

Moved up to a 66 4wd Scout,
Just like this one.
[img]https://0.cdn.autotraderspecialty.c...613-def1b09f37e97fcd9b69fcf2cbd4350a.jpg[img]

They were junk. Sold it with the plow to a guy who promptly scrapped it.
I still have a bunch of parts for them in the barn.

Then a 2wd model, that was a great unit. Twin tanks. Drove it for years.

Then an 84 Bronco ll, still have it. Locking hubs, 2.6l v-6. Got around very well in the Spring mud for turkeys. Gas tank rotted out, motor tired.
It’s going to the scrap yard soon.

Then, in May 2001, we were doing the plant conversion in Toledo for Jeep. Marking the end of the Jeep Cherokee sport like John has.
I bought an “Upland Special” (factory lifted) through vendor relations, and walked it down the line, from paint, through General Assembly.
Still have it. Never have gotten stuck. Even in mud up to the door sills.
Head cracked. Now it sits.
The serial number shows it’s one of the last ever made.
We stopped the line At 10pm, and my Jeep was completed mid afternoon that day.

Moved on to a Silverado pickup for long distance comfort.

Then tried a Subaru Forester, 5 speed.
With good tires, the best compromise of them all.
The reason is, if you were going to go hunting from September until the end of January, your fuel budget becomes a nuisance.

All those vehicles with the heavy duty off-road suspensions are gas hogs.

The Subaru, at 28 miles per gallon loaded, allows you to drive all over the middle state shooting at critters, while sipping fuel in a comfortable vehicle.
I hate dropping a 50 every couple days for only a bird or two each time.

A Range Rover is quite plush, well equipped, and capable, but the cashmere carpets are out of place for me.

My Kawasaki mule, towed by the Silverado gets the call most the time now.
Cab, heated, gun racks, satellite radio, dual winches, enclosed bed, and fun to drive.
Mine is White
Highly recommended for aging hunters.

Thanks GLS. Yes I had no luck finding a Toyota winch either. LCs are notoriously overbuilt, but wish they would have made the winches out of rust proof steel. Definitely do not want an outside-mounted spare or put one of those large heavy tires in a top rack. I'll keep searching for a winch a bit before I have my machinist fabricate something. Thinking of a pulley system with a miniature gun tackle and cable going out the same hole in the rear bumper that the old winch used for the three-piece crank.

Good luck, Hal. I have an old buddy who has a late 80s early 90s FJ80 as his daily driver. It has that ox of a 6 cylinder engine in it. A week doesn't go by without someone sticking a business card on the windshield asking if he wants to sell it. Gil

Realize now the huge number of cable winches out there; the single chain-type listed was used and for a Nissan Pathfinder. New winches sell for less than $100, so thinking of buying one listed for early Tundras and rigging it up. But friend Steve looked underneath my '95 LC this morning said he could just cut one out of an old pickup at the junkyard. Can make an operating rod easily regardless of what winch I get.

Most of my Hunting Trucks have been full size Fords or Chevys with 8 ft. beds. The last two were Fords, and they seem to last longer and take more abuse before rusting out or requiring costly and frequent repairs. Little trucks like Rangers, S-10's etc. always seemed like a nice idea, but I don't enjoy being a contortionist trying to get my knees under the steering wheel. I wish they would build one for people over 6 ft. tall. Good tires on a hunting vehicle are a must, and I always run 4 studded snow tires in the winter months. In addition, I always have a couple come-a-longs, jacks, tow straps, chains, and tire chains to get myself out of trouble when I am in places that AAA can't help you. A Thread on getting stuck, and getting unstuck might be a fun and interesting off-topic subject.

Those hoist/hanger mechanisms that stow the spare tire under the vehicle are a very poor idea for anyone who lives in snow country, where the roads get salted. I was lucky enough to be at home some years ago when I came out to find my truck had a flat. Naturally, my hoist mechanism was rusted and corroded, and I had to get out the oxy-acetylene burning torch to get my spare down. The steel rim looked like the surface of the moon from several years of collecting dirt, salt, and road grit. I've heard of some that rust so badly that the spare loses air or becomes unsafe to use. I torched the remains of the hoist off the frame, and never considered replacing it. Since then, I promptly relocate the spare on any truck I buy. I can just imagine how much fun it would be to have that happen out in the boonies where I didn't have access to a torch or tools to cut my spare down.

I have certainly run out of fuel several time in my life, but the motors of the electric fuel pumps inside the gas tank will fail prematurely if frequently run dry or very low. The fuel helps to cool the motor windings. I have had several experiences with the engine dying from lack of fuel when the gas gauge said I had plenty of gas. My last Ford truck would run out just under half a tank, and my car got progressively worse over time, and finally quit with nearly a full tank. The gas gauges were not lying. Both were caused by a bad electric fuel pump putting out insufficient pressure. A squirt of starting fluid into the air intake quickly tells you whether your engine died due to lack of fuel, or an ignition problem. It was no fun to lower the nearly full gas tank, but I was not able to siphon the gas out due to something blocking my siphon hose in the filler tube.

I also agree with what Clapper Zapper said about a fuel efficient hunting vehicle for frequent day trips. My favorite hunting car was my 1986 Ford Tempo that had a 2.0 liter Mazda/Mercedes diesel engine. It got 40 MPG no matter how hard you drove it. The non-turbo engine only made 60 HP, but it had typical great diesel low end torque. And whoever designed the 5 speed manual transmission was a genius who knew how to utilize that 60 HP perfectly, from low range to 90 MPH. It had a pretty good ground clearance, and a nice clean bottom with exhaust system and lines all tucked up where they wouldn't get caught on rocks and such. I did put a big crease in the fuel tank when I bottomed out on a rock while crossing a small creek. It also had great leg room, a comfortable interior, and a roomy trunk that did just fine for hauling dead deer when lined with a sheet of plastic. I took that car into some God-awful places that left guys with their 4WD's shaking their heads. One caveat... it is not as much fun to run out of fuel with a diesel engine as with a gas engine.

Here's a photo of 67galaxie's Willys. He's working on it and hopefully more photos soon. Gil

I like Keith's Willys. You don't see those sitting around under every tree.

I agree about Toyota customer service. My first truck was a 88 v6 extended cab. Great truck but they had issues with the head gaskets. Mine failed and in turn the block cracked. Toyota sent in a new short block from Japan and the local dealer installed it, it cost me $129. The only reason that I was charged anything is that someone had installed an aftermarket water pump and the dealer replaced that with an OEM pump. I have not owned any other brand since 97 or so. I drive them hard and they take it requiring very little maintenance.

Looks like a 1948 Jeepster

.
Best truck I owned is over 300000 MI still running good but kind of falling apart still pul lstrailers like there not there and a great comfortable ride . I'm looking for something bigger and easier to get stuff in and out of. so I ordered one of these last week.
have a lift kit and a front receiver on order also.https://ibb.co/0JThPfq

Found a photo of the biggest disaster from Detroit outside of the Lions. My 1990 Grand Wagoneer which I described in miserable detail upthread. Photo taken about 25-26 years ago when Julia was a wee lass. Gil

Well, I don’t know which way to go here. My wife starting picking up FJ60 Land Cruisers in the last few years. The third one was an Hj-60 diesel we cannonballed home from Montana last summer. Two hours on the side of the road after midnight prying the spare tire off the frozen winch was all the learning I’ll ever need on that one! She switched gears and the “new” Land Rover 109 will be home before I am this weekend. That said I have put more deer in my BMW than any truck I have ever owned. Of course my little brother set the bar years ago putting the biggest buck any of us has ever got along with with the doe he was chasing in the back/ back seat of an 85 Honda Prelude! Back seat folded down, heads hanging out the open trunk all the way back down the mountain.

https://i.ibb.co/s21K2zx/F250-back2.jpg. F250 sd 6.7 turbo diesel good around hunting truck.

I ordered one of these for 2023.

SKB, you might have bought the 74 Bronco I bought new. Same specs inline 6 and everything else HD. In the winter we would pull the doors off of it, chain up all four corners and use it for a log skidder. Skid roads were so narrow that if you stopped you couldn't open the doors. Awesome little rig, wish I had it today.

I did run traplines for a few years with a 56 Willy's wagon, same green as the one pictured, the old Hurricane 6 was quite reliable and had plenty of power.

Right now I'm looking for a new hunting rig, finally thinking I'm getting too old to run around the desert on the bike, this year and maybe another. I'm looking at a street legal vw sandrail so I can run it on the roads yet very off road capable. Add a roof rack for my camping gear. I do like the sxs ATV's but I have to tow them to where I want to use it.

Remember HI/LO wipers, don't forget vacuum wipers, go up a hill in the rain and you were blind.

I've got a VW powered sand rail under the shed I've had since the late 80s. 88mm jugs and a Holley 2 bbl. It's pretty bad. No tach or speedometer. No paddle tires, either. I once ran it top end on a straight country highway and a neighbor passed me in his Ford 302 HO truck. When I got back home he pulled up beside me and said that he had to get over 120 mph to pass me. I got scared, then. Lotsa fun.

I have a 2011 fj cruiser arb bumpers warn VR 12000 winch arb roof rack headers air intake great car daily driver I live in the white mountains of az.thousands of miles of Forrest roads to explore.

Nice!
That’s where I’m going to roll with my Grenadier.

CZ;

I for one, would like to see a review report of this vehicle after it arrives and you have driven it for a few tests.

Stephen Howell

They use the Tesla marketing plan. So, they will be sold direct to the end-user, built to spec. No rebates, no big discounts.

It’s a euro conglomerate joint effort. BMW engine, ZF trans, 3 locking diffs, Steyr suspension, Recaro seats, Hella? Lighting. You can see how they have been mining eurogov based on how they ended up with a Mercedes plant in France, and a frame plant in Spain.
I think they spoiled their opportunity in the UK abandoning Wales as the mfg location, but it is sort of a Defender clone.
Big step up from a UAZ Hunter.

And then they partnered with a bunch of accessory companies, so that you can deck out the outside to whatever expedition level you want.

They are claiming a 7500 pound towing capacity.

I am not naïve, the US market is very competitive, and many euro outfits struggle with the NHTSA standards. I’m pretty sure they’re going to pedal a bare-bones non-US compliant model into all the places Defenders used to get sold, and then maybe, just maybe, bring the US spec model into the US.
You can’t help but notice the intense interest coming from the Aussies.

That’s my primary interest, because my bird hunting rig weighs 4000+ Lbs, and a pick up truck is really too large to access western quail country as deep as I want.
My Jeep Cherokee sport with the 4.0 l was capable of dragging a 5000 pound trailer. I never did so, so I can’t comment on if it really was. But this vehicle is in the size of the Jeep Commander, and they were very capable of dragging 5000 pound trailers.

I have been watching videos and reading about the G-dier vehicle since it was touted to the world. I hope that it turns out to be a real 4-wheel drive icon. The videos I have seen are produced by individuals that have good intentions in their review and comment delivery, but I am uncertain if they actually know a good vehicle from a poor vehicle, and so my comment to you about what your view of it is after you receive yours. The first thing that probably came to your mind was will it be a maintenance nightmare. Look forward to your future review.

I’m pretty sure I’ll be able to get a bag of mulch home without spilling it.

Good luck blending in with the crowd in that Grenadier.............. "grey man".

Stan,
Out here in the real traveling wing shot world, there is no crowd.

Today it’s just me, the Mule, two setters, and ruffled grousies.

CZ, once you’ve taken delivery I may just want to drive down and see it in person. Interesting concept/approach. I’m hoping they can make it work.

You’re always welcome James.

As an early adopter, I expect that they will be bringing in some handmade examples, for test rides at various ports of entry, four-wheel-drive training facilities. As I said previously, the American market is very competitive, and I don’t believe they want to blow it. They know what their volumes can be, and how much money they can make if they get a good competitive presence in the American market.

Sort of the way that Land Rover used to do it, I think Jeep still does it, perhaps others.

It’s just an expensive toy anyway.

I hope the rear doors are power assist, because I don’t want to have to set my bags of groceries down in order to open the door. LOL.

If you notice the width of the rear cargo area, it will be one of the few SUVs that allow for a double dog box.

I sure loved my LR3. If only it started when I turned the key!

I think BMW has got the starting system covered. But I sure hope they have learned to use fewer fasteners in their oil pans and valve covers.

A good deal of the discussion during the early development was how best to optimize field repairs so that the smallest possible tool kit could be carried to make repairs in remote places. That would seem to be contrary to BMWs normal processes, but was a loud enough voice during development that some considerations for deep field repairs were made.

There are a number, for lack of a better word, “freight haulers”, that operate in South America and the deserts/jungles of Africa, that depend on simplicity, and ease of repair. There is a good volume of business available in these markets for commercial use.

If Ineos is going to make any inroads against Toyota, the units have to be field repairable by semiskilled people.

My seats better be heated.

"....repairable by semiskilled people" That term or concept is something that BMW engine designers do not have in their database and you can count on it not happening. Maybe it is better to say that "repairable by semiskilled people" is an oxymoron in modern vehicle production. 40 years ago, the repair of electronics as well as mechanical parts were repairable to the individual component, now the definition of individual components to BMW (and others) is an entire circuit board or worse the entire "computer" devise---their own technicians do not know how to read a logic diagram.

Where do modern auto engineers and designers learn such stupidity as building engines with internal water pumps that leak water into the engine oil crankcase and further the water pump is hidden behind the camshaft timing chain that no semi-skilled person can find much less replace/repair.

25 years ago when I lived, worked and hunted (best all around wingshooting in the world) in Southern Africa, I learned that the Toyota 70 series pickup truck (Bakkies as they are called there) was the toughest pickup truck in the world and Land Rover could not match them. I suspect they are still the toughest and most reliable--- though underpowered for American ideas.

You are absolutely correct.

It’s one of the reasons these things fascinate me.

I want to see how a group of engineers can rectify these seemingly conflicting design parameters.

You have the Australians pounding them to pieces in their dusty desert, you have the central Africans ferrying materials through waist deep mud,
Northern Africans operating in 100 degree temps, Finns above the Arctic circle, Central American transporters working in endless rain and humidity, etc.

I just want to make sure my Evian fits in the cup holders.

In the LR vs. LC contest, LGF had it summarized succinctly based on his African experiences: "The Land Rover made a mechanic and a Land Cruiser driver out of me." Gil

I replaced the 92 Toyota pick up I bought new two years ago with and 89 4Runner, I hope to have this one for some version of forever.

Wonder how they got that dirt on the tire treads when it was driven in on, and parked on, pavers? Oh! ........ guess I'm not supposed to notice such things. And, on second notice, just what is the need for a "dustproof" spare tire cover for an off-road truck? Eye candy boyz, eye candy.

I would love one of those landcruiser pickups

Stan;

While you were noticing things, did you notice what country it was in? I will give you a clue, stop the video at the last few seconds and look at the local language script on the Toyota Motor Corporation sticker. You might just want to protect some things from the "dust" there.

1986 CJ-7 along a canal in Uttar Pradesh. Kept that truck for 27 years driving it all over India, Pakistan, Greece, Crete, Bulgaria, Turkey, Italy, the Dalmation Coast.... I spent $500 a year just to keep it running but that was cheaper than car payments.

Argo:

The accessory shown in the photo must have enhanced your ownership pleasure as well.

She has that fresh $#*%'d look....

Hmmm carseat

My Jeep is a year later than yours, Gene. It's an '87, first year for the Wrangler. It's getting a new battery tomorrow afternoon. With it's transplanted 350 c.i. Chevy and a Chevy TH350 tranny and Dana transfer case it's a lot of fun on dirt roads. Effective final gear ratio is 4.56 to 1, so it can hardly pass a gas station without turning in.

I've got a petite little wife, too. She's 117 lbs. now, up a little from 102 lbs. 50 years ago. She won't ride in my Jeep anymore. Right after I got it we ran out of gas and had to sit 'side the road for awhile until help came along. She was so embarrassed she was "mortified", and refuses to ride in it again. But, that's cool.

Out here? You're not planning on leaving the Grenadier "out there", are you? Because, you said .....


Give it up, CZ. You're no grey man, and you know it. You got a bit carried away when you said before, "I'm the grey man", after your little discourse on what a grey man is.

Stan,
The beauty of being me, is no one cares who I am, nor what I do.
I am entirely unmemorable. Partly natural talent, partly practice.
Tested and perfected.


When society collapses, and the race wars break out, I will be safe. I will unnoticeably move my operations to my secret bivouac area, and wait for the rise of the new society. Leaving no trace. Noticed, but not worth remembering.

Making jokes about driving a modern off grid vehicle evidently got past you.

People joke all the time about whether or not they might spill their bags of mulch in their $100,000.00 off-road mall crawlers.
Or if their Evian fits the cup holders.
Or if the doors are power assisted so that you don’t have to set down your grocery bags. Who carries grocery bags anymore? Don’t people know Whole Foods delivers?

Hard being a grey man in Bloomfield Township in a Chevy.

You’ll just be mistaken as the help.


______________________________________
Land of the Jag winter beater.

Okay, I think I see what you're saying. And, what I can take from it is that I cannot believe anything you post. Not about your hunting travels, not about your guns, nothing. I am an optimist, and have lived my life as a man who tends to trust people until they give me a reason not to. You might say I'm gullible, but when I see no sign of anything in a post indicating it is tongue-in-cheek, or fantasy ...... I believe it.

But, once burned, twice shy. I now DO have reason to doubt you and your posts. You say it's humor, maybe so. Maybe it's covering your tracks. I dunno, but more importantly for me, it doesn't matter anymore.

Enjoy your "grey man fantasyland", I'm done with it all.

You think that’s bad, there’s a fellow here that thinks he’s a gun slingin’ revolutionary.


_________________________________
A hydro-shockin’, fast boat drivin’, sand railin’, bible thumpin’, sho-nuff on a mission from God revolutionary.
(crazy, eh?)

Yeah, crazy ...... like a fox.

…… as a loon.


_____________________________________
Flying in my saucer, ‘cause that’s how I roll……

2071 and still sucking air .......

Bye, Loney

Lost a few years StanfOrd....

Well, CZ, it looks like your Grenadier is getting close.
Keep us posted.

https://apple.news/A3yDtK_HSRUyll2YQunn1_w

I work in the automobile industry, the automation industry segment as it were.

In fact, we installed probably 25 robots, and unloaded another hundred or more today.

That’s just in the body shop, where every bit of sheet metal on a modern car, is handled by robots, jigged up by robots, spot welded by robots, and measured by Robots. To stds no human could ever meet.

I think Ineos has a long Way to go before they can start doing business in the United States.

Even for us early adopters, they have been very reluctant to have anything other than canned press days, for Internet personalities that will say favorable things about them.

For instance, they had a press day in Denver, and yet invited no one that wasn’t part of the automobile press.
You would think, that you would see at least one, non-press related report, about driving the vehicle.

They have yet to publish anything related to their crash testing for the US market.

That is a very big hurdle to overcome.

I will be very surprised if they start delivering vehicles in the United States in 2023.

I am worn out on their continuous internet hype.

They will either perform as designed, or they won’t.

Automobile marketing is a moving target.

What might be hot today, could very easily be dated and boring 6 months from now, and the volumes collapse.

The longer they take to bring the product to market, the greater the risk that alternatives will evolve to fill the market.

I think many of the off-road SUV manufacturers are already eyeing the misstep of the new Land Rover defender.