Last October Lloyd(3) posted a thread on Rehabbing a Crass Model Ithaca 12 bore. Since Crass numbers have been widely disputed I posted the following:


“Lloyd, warn your bro-in-law that the Crass is a very interesting model (with proportional addictive properties) and not nearly as numerous as is often thought.

Using Walt’s 2nd ed. numbers the first Crass is #7004 in January of 1888 with the last being #50,000 in 1901. (My own research turned up 49,999 as the last one but let’s work with WaltKs number.) That would leave us with 42,996 Crass guns. But like John mentions above that there are Crass examples into the Lewis era so there are also examples before #7004. Somewhere I saw Walt mention #6981 as the earliest known Crass and I have personally seen a letter reference in the Ithaca records in Cody to a “hammerless” 10 ga #6830.

So, how many Crass were made? We obviously don’t exactly know but it would seem that we could safely say somewhere a bit over 43,000. But - and that’s a very large BUT - there is a major caveat. And here it is. The production numbers that we often refer to as the Crass numbers actually also contain the NIG (hammer gun) production. We probably should more correctly refer to these numbers as the NIG numbers since the NIG predates the Crass and then postdates it by another 14 years ending in 1915 well into the Flues era. But we don’t. So taking this combined number of about 43,000 Crass, how many actually are? To my knowledge, no one knows but I’ve considered the question and considered doing the research because the records do exist and the answer could be known.

So, again, how many Crass were made? My best guess is based on something Walt wrote back in 2004. He was discussing a 1901 NIG and in the course of the article mentioned that “...hammerless models still had another year or two before gaining a significant majority of the production.” Since the Crass ended in 1901 that would be 1902 or 1903 before the hammerless Lewis model finally gained the majority of production over the hammer NIG. Thus during the entire 14 year run of the Crass (1888-1901) it would seem that its total numbers were likely less than half of the total production of about 43,000 i.e. 21,500.

Lloyd, I told you that the Crass is very interesting. It also likely could be more rare than we think because we often refer to the Minier as the rarest of Ithaca models with about 21,770 made. We may find out some day that the Crass has similar low production numbers. I hope your brother in law stays with the project. I think he’ll find it fascinating. And he could end up with a fine, and perhaps somewhat rare, piece of Ithaca history.”




Not long before Lloyd’s post, I acquired a 2nd edition of Walt’s book, The Ithaca Gun Co., and since then have been slowly working my way through the extensive additional material included in the 2nd Ed. During the recent blizzard I was back at it and came on a single page with a couple of photocopies of a small hand written pocket notebook and a compilation of all of the Ithaca guns produced from 1886, when George Livermore joined the company, through 1913. Walt says, “I am certain that the little notebook was Uncle George’s personal account book.” I immediately realized that this range covers the entire Crass period and was excited that we might finally know the exact Crass numbers. I’ve now spent the past couple of days analyzing the data and like so much of this kind of research there’s been greater clarity but not complete.

For the first 13 years of the Crass’ 14 year run, the production numbers are clear. 18,106 Crass model doubles were made. It’s the transition year of 1901 where both Crass and Lewis models were produced that clouds the picture. Livermore’s notebook states that 5394 hammerless guns were built that year. I had hoped that by collating actual serial numbers of both Lewis and Crass guns for 1901 that I could determine how many of each were produced. But as I’ve run into before, the serial numbers are not exact enough to allow that. So ... while we’re closer to knowing the true number of Crass that were built, in the end we’re left to make a guess. Halving the 1901 number of 5394 we’re left with 2697. Adding that to 18,106 we have an estimate of total Crass production of 20,803. Close to the 21,500 I originally estimated but still just that: an estimate.

One additional item I found interesting: I mentioned that Walt wrote back in 2004 as he was discussing a 1901 NIG that “...hammerless models still had another year or two before gaining a significant majority of the production.” I surmised that that would then be 1902 or 1903. Sure enough the notebook shows that in 1902 hammerless production surged to 4+ times the hammer gun totals. The future had arrived for Ithaca and while the NIG would go on for another 13 years its numbers would never be more than a small fraction of the Ithaca totals.

Very cool. So my 9,xxx serial # gun from 1889 is really pretty rare. Wow.

FCF,
Remember also from Sept '89-1891 the records are missing. The total production numbers are there but NIG:Crass numbers are projections.

??? Do we continue to lump the earliest Hammerless models (stamped NEW ITHACA GUN), as Crass? They are somewhat different. Are there any 4 screw Crass models or any 5 screw Lewis examples?

Interesting topic,

John

Yes, Doc, if your gun is a hammerless (Crass) according to Livermore’s records it would be one of 755 made that year. And depending on the actual serial number it could be a very early Crass as 1889 begins with #8788. Share with us the details of your gun if you would.


And, John, yes, the later factory fire did wipe out those 28 months of records creating the extra interesting “black hole” Ithacas. I have one of those (an 1891 NIG) and I’m always on the lookout for others.

From Walt’s 2nd edition combined NIG/Crass numbers we find that 8447 guns were made from 1889-1891.
Livermore’s production numbers for those same three years are 7798. (BTW I’ve come across this before where specific serial numbers do not match up with known total production numbers. This is actually why I can’t determine the total Crass and Lewis numbers for 1901.)

Livermore’s notebook numbers, however, do allow us to know the breakout of NIG and Crass for those years. The 7798 breaks out to 5294 NIG’s (1809, 1609, 1876) and 2504 Crass (755, 883, 866).

As for the early differences and the existence of 4 & 5 screw models, I have been looking at the new examples that Walt found but I wouldn’t venture an opinion just yet.

Interesting topic, indeed.

FCF,

Here is a link referencing a couple of my Hammerless guns. #7216 & 7239.

https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=478560

John

Fallcreek:

I'll dig it out and take photos this evening. As a teaser it is a 10 ga. with 3" chambers and 30" damascus barrels. It is pretty light at about 8lbs.

Crass guns are very well decorated. Here's a Grade 5 that is hard to beat in decoration or condition.

Crass units can indeed be very pretty....

I seriously doubt that my brother-in-law's dad's old gun looks anything like that. This is really drilling-down into a subject that is clearly....very obscure. Where else but here, right?

FCF,

A few numbers for the '89-'91 dates:

9035 NIG B
12038 Qlty 2
15044 Qlty 3

'92
18520 Qlty 3
19465 Qlty 1
21463 NIG A

John

Morning John:

I checked the gun last evening and it is a 13,xxx #. I also think it is a Quality 2. It has a small name plate on it for a G. Metz. The stock head has cracked with a wedge split at some point and has a repair cross bolt installed. After I acquired from a hock shop in New Orleans I disassembled it, de-oiled the head with heat and plaster, and filled the cracks with as much super glue as I could get it to hold.

I shot it pretty regularly for a while with 2 7/8 in. had loads of lead 6's for crows mostly. It patterns at loose modified and full.

I am not experienced at posting photos so if you will send me your phone # or email address I will send them to you for posting.

Docbill72@gmail.com

[ Do we continue to lump the earliest Hammerless models (stamped NEW ITHACA GUN), as Crass? They are somewhat different.]

They are but clearly there were transition guns being built and the earliest hammerless Ithaca patents were from Leroy Smith and Charles Pierce not Frederick Crass. However, since tradition attributes the model to Frederick Crass (and since he was “...a skilled machinist and model maker...”) I guess we do, too, until something turns up that gives us a better understanding of those earliest models.


[Are there any 4 screw Crass models or any 5 screw Lewis examples?]

John, remember I said to Lloyd, “...the Crass is a very interesting model (with proportional addictive properties).” This whole pin issue if one of the reasons it is. To answer your 4 pin/screw question, yes, there are. On p. 280 of the 2nd edition there is a picture of an unstocked very early hammerless frame (#7859) that appears to be a 4 pin example. The photo clarity is not good enough to say that definitely, but since the 1888 catalog contains an illustration of a 4 pin model I think we can safely say that there were some. Additionally, hammerless is spelled “hammerles” on the frame. Another, “wonder why.”

In addition, some early guns had 6 pins (there is a picture of one on page 40 of both the first and the second edition books and several more in the addendum of the 2nd edition.). And if that isn't interesting enough, besides the 5 and 4 pin versions there are examples of both 3 and 2 pin models! Apparently, Ithaca was continuously working on refining the hammerless “Crass” design.

And as for a 5 pin Lewis. Let’s save that discussion for another thread.

Daryl, you are certainly right. Your Grade 5 “...is hard to beat in decoration or condition.”
Thanks for sharing it with us.

Uploaded for Doc - his 10ga Grade 2 Crass with 30" damascus barrels. The serial number indicates that it was made during the "black hole" period when Ithaca serial number records are lost. Extrapolating from the known starting serial number in 1889 and using Livermore's production notebook numbers it likely was made in December of 1890.

Hi there! I know this is an older thread, but I believe I have one of the “black hole” shotguns you speak of. It’s serial number 144**.. it’s a grade 4 12 gauge with beautifully intricate engravings all over with a gold inlaid pointer dog on the trigger guard and a gold badge inlaid on the stock. I will attach pictures as soon as I figure how lol.Ithaca Crass 1891 Grade 4

14471 is certainly higher than a No. 4. With those sculpted breech balls, the wings on the barrels and the quality of the engraving, more likely a No. 6 or No. 7. The 4 marking on the watertable is strange.

Researcher,

#14471 is most certainly a Quality 4 gun as marked. Looking back there were three distinct frame types within the CRASS model Ithaca Hammerless guns. The Quality 3 guns in the 1st frame style also had sculpted breeches, wings, and a generous amount of engraving. A Quality 4 or 5 may have been the top end gun at that time period.

John

this may help...


https://diamondgunsmithing.com/VSN.html

There’s about 10,000 serial numbers missing in the records between ~7000-17000.

Welcome JF. The best that I’ve been able to find is that #10534 is the last extant number in the remaining records for August of 1889 and then #17235 is the first in January of 1892.