This article indicates the sxs market in N. America is strong and doing well I’m not sure I agree if we’re talking guns closer to the $5000 range

https://www.outdoorlife.com/story/g...mdlOH0DZrPtfnpTL2vAoQecLeJk-Am3tmmWHa1p4

He’s about a decade to two decades behind the curve. Since I’ve been into SxS shotguns, the last few years has been the most stagnant I’ve ever seen it in regards to market.

well, the market for 12 ga guns is soft, but 16's and smaller sell well...

the higher the price, the fewer the buyers...

and we dont need anymore new sxs guns...plenty of old ones to meet demand...

That’s not an article. That’s an ad.

Funny how there is no mention of CSMC. Seems to me they were busy over the last dozen years creating and offering an under $5K SxS.

CSMC probably disqualified itself with its reportely poor quality control.

CSMC probably disqualified itself with its reportedly poor quality control.

So true Joe....(in my case not reported, but experienced, poor QC)


Seems to me the article is focused on NEW products....nothing used was barely mentioned.

It is interesting- in the UK they are going to phase out lead, and there is a big fear that the old SxS that is not Steel Shot Proof will be a forgotten item. Yet there is a lot of research there that chokes of less than 1/2 will be 'OK' for steel shot.
It could go either way...

Every NEW person into upland is either looking for a Benelli Auto OR a Browing U/O...I don't hear a lot of guys asking about where to find a sub 6lb 16ga with a Kirsten and Side Clips...

I keep hearing the 12ga. market is soft. I see guns listed for 3,4 years and they still won’t deal. I’m sure there are more that have been listed much longer.

Precisely why I no longer subscribe to any of the older hunting and fishing rags. They write stuff that pleases their advertisers in order to "survive" (read, make money). The result is tainted. Shooting Sportsman was the last I dropped because of their stupid ads and cover pictures. In retrospect, DGJ is the only sporting periodical that I still have a paid subscription to. If I were to take out another it would be Sporting Classics. I do subscribe to Sporting Classics Daily, but it's free.

SRH

Speak for yourself. "We" does not include me.

SRH

What seems to be selling well in Western Canada are Huglu shotguns. Cheap is desirable, apparently.
Ordinary British boxlocks in 12 gauge are a hard sell.
Huge numbers of European cast-offs have been sold in Canada, just like the US. Many of them are pitted or have other serious condition issues. It is possible to get a good gun, but you have to be careful.
It seems that new guns by better makers like B Rizzini sold very slowly. I think it is related to price point.

Huglu is the modern day Liège, Saint-Étienne, or Birmingham. For 30 years that town has been the center of double gun manufacture. The culture as created the artisans necessary for quality. Every year has been better. Do not discount those guns. They are really good....and not expensive. Ask Stan about his Dickinson.

Scattershot comments:

Re the UK and steel: They've had steel loads for some time now that can be used in vintage doubles. Reduced velocity and pressure, and shot sizes no larger than US 5. And Gamebore offers tungsten matrix shells in 2 1/2" hulls.

The OL article: Stevens was making "classic" sxs in the 80's? I must have missed that.

The US market got a real shot in the arm from the mid-60's well into the 80's with the Japanese-made sxs. We were stuck with single triggers (Ithaca SKB and BSS) on the lower priced guns, except for the Miroku-made Charles Dalys. But moving upscale a ways, and we had the Winchester 23, the BSS Sidelock, and of course the Parker Reproduction. And at about the same time, the Spanish were overcoming the poor reputation they had for soft parts by sending us much higher quality guns at relatively reasonable prices. They sold a lot of guns until the prices became a lot less reasonable.

Currently, good to see new Italian entries. If the FAIR sxs are the same quality as their OU's, they look to be a bargain. RFM . . . they made the Rota, which New England Arms imported along with the FAIR OU's. We have to hope that quality is much better on their current sxs.

Turkey, not just Huglu, has the potential to be the new Birmingham.
They are not there yet.
While some makers are capable of making a good and durable firearm, there is still a large amount of junk being sold.
The general market surely prefers cheap. Otherwise, how do you explain the barely functional rubbish from China and Turkey that is offered for sale.

In my career I watched brand names chase lower manufacturing costs by moving production from country to country. It always follows a pattern. Initially the new place makes only the most basic versions of the product and badly at that. But knowledge, experience and time eventually win out. In the relatively simple stuff I was involved with, tennis racquets, golf equipment, clothing and footwear, the learning curve is upwards of 20 years. I expect it to be longer than that for firearms. But rest assured, Turkey will get there if there continues to be a market for firearms. It is inevitable.

Many of us can remember when "made in Japan" was synonymous for junk. It's been a long time since that was true. I remember when China couldn't make a t-shirt. Now they make the most sophisticated technology imaginable. The only thing that is required is that a market for the product continues to exist.

[quote=L. Brown]Scattershot comments:

Re the UK and steel: They've had steel loads for some time now that can be used in vintage doubles. Reduced velocity and pressure, and shot sizes no larger than US 5. And Gamebore offers tungsten matrix shells in 2 1/2" hulls.

Reduced velocity steel loads are what we had 40 years ago. Absolute trash. Steel shot at 1200 FPS was not a good load for quickly killing ducks. You could center a duck at 30 yards and watch it fly away, then drop stone dead 200 yards away, never to be recovered. If I have to use reduced steel loads again I will stop hunting. It is not fair to the ducks.

The UK and European market are producing steel shot loads for target shooting with old doubles, in anticipation of a total ban on lead shot.
Bismuth is a much more suitable shot in vintage guns, to use for hunting. I am sorry that Nice shot has disappeared.