Well I didn't think it could get worse but damn if it didn't. I have been on line and calling places looking for some 2 1/2" 410 target loads.
I was lucky the other day to find a guy that had some 28's and he had some 410's but in #6.
So if one is to believe that eight million new shooters are causing this I'm not buying it. I would think the new gun owners would be buying pistol ammo.
At my gun club they are now restricting sale of ammo to limited boxes only if you are shooting there that day.
This has got to start hurting the gun clubs, Saturday at my club there was only one guy on the pistol range when usually it is full.

Not sure if this is accurate or not, but seemed informative:

https://www.outdoorlife.com/story/g...ral-premiums-president-has-some-answers/

I tried two Walmarts and Academy Sports trying to find some 20 ga. shells for test firing and none were to be had. They had 12, 16, and 28 but not very much. None of the stores have any center fire or rimfire rifle and pistol ammo. Our local Wildlife range has lots of people at the handgun range and 90% are new faces. Most are first time gun owners. People are scared.

I think Vanderbrink and Hornady are correct and telling the truth. There is an old saying that a traffic jam is a collision between free enterprise and statism. Industry can supply all the cars we need but the state is woefully inadequate supplying the roads. In this case, the state and its allies are terrifying people faster than industry can provide the arms.

Recently a local gun store was burgled. I hope the thieves found more guns than the rest of us. That's like digging for ice cubes in Sahara.

I wish I could buy primers and bullets so I can just go the range and enjoy shooting.

I passed thru a couple local Walmarts & only 28 bore was available. And it appears that they are getting out of gun sales as the gun carrousels had been removed and a small glass display with trail cameras replaced it.


Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Just be happy you don't live in Kalifornia! DOJ has to approve you to buy shotgun shells.

Hello gentlemen:

If you think your ammo shortage is bad, see what happens south of the border: to purchase shotgun ammo and 22 lr, you need to make an appointment by e-mail, then they give you a date 4-5 weeks ahead.

When you arrive to the store (it is located in a military facility) at exatly the our of your appointment, you are informed that you can only buy 1,000 shotgun shells and 500 22lr.

The worst part is that you are happy when you go out the store, because you have some ammo!!

The pandemia changes our lives worldwide.

Best regards,

Thank you, Jose. Sometimes we, in America, need to be reminded how fortunate we are, and not complain so much.

SRH

When we stop complaining...is when we end up in Jose’s situation. I say complain and complain loud....if you think the politicians haven’t taken notice of the shortages and their gears aren’t spinning in their head on how to make this an advantage to their anti-2nd amendment agenda...well, it’ll be the beginning of the end. California’s ammo laws are what they’re aiming for for the rest of the country.

Agreed for the most part, Dustin. But, complaining on a shotgun forum isn't going to make the politicians take heed. Voting the antigun ones out of office will. Complaining here is like preaching to the choir.

SRH

Gave a guy at work a couple bricks of old .22 ammunition, mostly Winchester Wildcat, from the early 80s. Had his back against the wall trying to finish his pistol league. I didn’t realize how tough things had gotten out there.

I’d bet it gets no better, at least not for the next four years. They promised it.

Best,
Ted

In some ways, Jose's experiences buying ammo might just be a metaphor of the hoops most of the US jumps through. Just for the illusion of having some fortune for being gouged.

Four friends scheduled a last hurrah duck hunt on the Maryland Eastern Shore. The guide got us our pontoon blind off of Tilghman Island and we reserved our hotel rooms in Saint Michael’s. Uuuummmm we began asking each other, Do you have steel shot? I can’t find much.
I myself was fortunate to successfully ransack my basement stash as well as the attic, where about two boxes of 3” #2s and BBs were discovered, along with ten rounds of 3.5” BBs. Some of the metal bases were rusted and had to be “honed” down to bare steel. But I went armed with enough for my own needs and able to help out one of the guys, had anyone run out of their own steel shot. Normally, at the end of the season I will give my leftover shot shells to the guide or the helper, for last minute stragglers. Not this year. All those formerly rusted rounds that were not shot returned home with me tonight. Lord only knows when we will see more basic shotgun ammo, because for the past three weeks I have tried WalMart, Bass Pro, and the Hamburg Cabelas with no success.
Whatever industry leaders are saying about this shortage, I have a tough time reconciling it with reality. Eight million new gun owners may want ammo, but I’ll bet all my GameStop stock that they aren’t hoarding 12 gauge steel shot. Where the heck did THAT go?!

Why would a prepper care what kind of shot is in a round? I'd think they would just as soon have steel as lead.

Then there are the hordes of young guys, teenagers by the truckloads, that have started duck hunting in the last few years. It's like an epidemic around here. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of duck hunters hasn't increased five fold in the last few seasons here. And, they aren't holding back on the shooting, either. Skybusting at everything they see with their jammamatics.

SRH

Been watching all these You Tube videos from these ammo Manufacturers and I say BS! Gun clubs are going to suffer as people will not have ammo to shoot clays or pistols and rifles.
Now with the new leadership we have it is only to get worse. Covid will continue in to 2022. Riots will only get more and more violent because of lockdowns and the conspiracies'. So this ammo shortage will only get worse. Eventually people will start selling their guns since they have no ammo to use.
Sounds like a plan to me.

Many of the new gun owners think that $35.00 + for a box of shells is a normal price. They have no idea that these same shells were easy to find and under $20.00 a box not long ago.

Gun store these days are almost empty. Watched two guys buy seven flats of 12 ammo last week. That cleaned that gun shop out of Federal 12 ammo for clay targets. Only good thing was I knew they were buying it for a local trap club to keep them open and selling ammo for a bit longer. That club limits you to two boxes at a time.

Gun shop in my area have almost zero in powder or primers. Even the weird numbers are gone. It’s panic buying and hoarding. I’m the same but did mine over the last four years asi have stocked up my reloading supplies. So right now I’m not buying anything unless it’s discontinued like 800X which I found seven pounds on a shelf. I bought four so I could load 2 1/2” 20s for a couple years more before I need to find another low pressure short load, with some other powder. I left three cans behind so someone else could have a little.

I am sure the drop off of Remington ammo production made this worse. I’ve heard conspiracy theories that “Federal” bought them out to eliminate competition but you don’t spend that kind of money just to shut them down unless you convert their plant into yours. Remington will be making ammo under the Remington name soon. They might be a reduced product line for sometime but that’s a marketing decision.

I recall Ruger has so many guns on back order a few years ago they stopped taking orders. It was a years total production and hastened the end of the newly redesigned Red Label that was supposed to have fixed that guns minor issues. So massive backlogs of orders and shortages of guns and ammo is nothing new. I just hope it passes in four years because I don’t have eight years supply of stuff.

It is not just ammo, quite a few things are back ordered in the firearms trade. Covid has slowed production and caused a large supply chain disruption. I have both bottom metal and barrels back ordered when a year ago I could simply place a call and get what I wanted shipped. Increased demand, combined with a decreased supply and this is what we see. On the upside, gun sales are stronger than they have been in some time. I have the majority of what I need on hand but will continue to be stocking up when the the chance arises.

Well, well, well... another ammo shortage thread. I'll bet it won't be the last either.

Unfortunately, some here seem to have a little problem connecting the dots. Dustin and Stan and Ted seem to get it...


But for those with short memories, think back to how bad things got with ammo shortages and gun prices going nuts when Democrat Bill Clinton got his Assault Weapons Ban passed and anti-gun Democrats weere trying to bankrupt the firearms industry with frivolous lawsuits.

Then George Bush got elected and allowed the Assault Weapons ban to sunset. In addition, he signed the" Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act" in 2005 that was brought to us by our NRA and House and Senate Republicans. So the panic buying situation eased up.

Then another anti-gun Democrat Barack Hussein Obama, and his anti-gun running mate Joe Biden got elected, with promises of new anti-2nd Amendment measures. The 2013 Newtown shooting gave them the opening they wanted, and they made a very hard push for massive restrictions on semi-autos, handguns, large cap magazines, and ammunition. Predictably, panic buying and massive price increases for guns and ammo followed.

The efforts of gun owners and the NRA thwarted that effort by Obama and Biden, and anti-gun Democrats got punished in the 2014 mid-term election. People relaxed a bit, and panic buying slowed down.

Then a pro-2nd Amendment guy named Donald Trump got elected, and he managed to quickly get the pro-2nd Amendment Justice Neil Gorsuch seated on the U.S. Supreme Court. The guns and ammo panic buying pretty much stopped... until some nut-bar shot up a Country Western concert in Las Vegas, and anti-gun Democrats renewed their push for big restrictions on 2nd Amendment Rights. Over time, it became apparent that Donald Trump wasn't going to sign any major anti-gun legislation, and he even got two more pro-2nd Amendment Justices seated on the Supreme Court.

But as fears grew that Trump was behind in the polls to get re-elected, and folks saw the threat from every anti-gun Democrat candidate, people naturally started hoarding again. Covid19 gave Democrats the excuse to do a massive expansion of mail-in voting with no effort to make the system secure from rampant fraud and cheating. We are expected to believe that Biden got more votes in black areas than Obama did, and that this multi-time loser who never scratched the surface in a presidential election effort suddenly shattered the all-time record number of votes. We are expected to ignore massive ballot dumps made very late at night, and told that it is OK for Republican poll watchers to be pushed back and not permitted to observe the counting process. We are told there is no evidence, and all claims of fraud are baseless... unless there was some Republican fraud. Then it is OK to speak.

There seems to be a pattern here. Anti-Gun Democrats equal threats to gun rights, and that equals panic buying and shortages. But some folks still don't get it. We can say that we need to elect pro-gun politicians, but it appears that Democrats have finally perfected election fraud. It has gotten to the point that they are calling anyone who mentions election fraud a subversive, and they are succeeding in silencing free speech pertaining to the subject.

We have some of them right here on this forum, and they happily supported and voted for the anti-gunner Joe Biden. They also worked in concert to stifle and ridicule any notion that there was widespread election fraud. I have little doubt that they will be contacting Dave to try to get this thread or my post deleted.

It isn't just preaching to the choir to point these facts out. Too many here still don't get it. And I will never understand why anyone would wish to accept or help these guys in any way, shape, or form. You can vote for a pro-gun politician, but these Libtards will cancel out your vote by voting for an anti-gunner like Biden or Schumer, or Pelosi. They will also try to silence you if you point out obvious election fraud.

So to me, if one of them asks where they can find a new pole to push their boat, I'd say we should tell them to shove their pole up their ass. I prefer to not help those who are helping anti-gunners threaten my hobby, my interest, and my Constitutional Right.

Thankfully no shortage at all on ammo here in the U.K. Just a shortage of Gunshops that are open due to all the lockdowns. When open they are well supplied. Lagopus…..

I think the ammo manufacturing industry is reporting that when their official numbers come out, they are expecting a large sales increase over 2019.

Picked up the few final lbs of VV powder @ a local haunt & the good word on the street is that things are going to get worse before it will get better. The term dire was used and the month of May would be when we will see some change in supply. From that it will take say 24 months to get up to speed. And all of this is predicated on a COVID-19 serum and folks actually coming back to work.


Serbus,

Raimey
rse

A different buddy, figuring he was bored, and needed something to do, loaded me up some range/practice ammunition. Every now and then he just does that. This is a low excitement load, shoots beautiful groups out of my Colt Trooper, might not punch through a leather jacket, however.
I came home and it was left on the deck. I’ll call and thank him, later. I have good friends.

Best,
Ted

Thankfully, I'm pretty much set for many years to come (assuming hunting continues to be an acceptable pastime). Target shooting (in any form) is not long for the world unless supplies of ammo become available again. Not feeling very good about any of this but....helpless to do much about it at this point. The future appears to be pretty dystopic right now. Hopefully things get better.

Even in 2013 time frame, our local guy kept a pretty decent supply. He had primers and components too, he just had a policy of limiting what each buyer could get. Not too strict, I recall buying 3 boxes of something and that was ok. He just didn't want to be cleaned out. And he kept his prices within reason...certainly in comparison to the internet.

But today is unreal. He has almost nothing. .270, .30-06 and .30-30 are the most popular calibers around here by far...and he had zero to sell this afternoon. NO 12 gauge, only a couple random boxes of 20ga and .410. About the only thing there was a decent amount of was .22lr. But only one choice of CCI and one load of American Eagle.

Ironically, I think that Federal is afraid to invest in another facility because they worry about running it is/when things normalize.

I wonder if it's like this currently in other places? I know Winchester used to make a lot of rimfire ammo in Oz, and names like PPU in Serbia are very good. Are they scarce too? What about the Asian stuff?

NDG

I’m good on hunting ammunition, as well. I have been stocking up on that for years. I think I warehoused about 50 rolls of toilet paper, last go around.

Never can be too prepared.

Best,
Ted

And yet...

A couple of days ago I received an email announcement from "Remington" (probably actually from Federal) that they are reintroducing their old High Density waterfowl loads (the stuff that came in green/yellow/orange boxes of 10 rounds each). That is welcome news, but no info on pricing or actual availability.

Some of this crap takes you by surprise. I went to see my local gunsmith who always has some ammo for sale in the shop. Needed some .257 Roberts ammo. Shoot Hornady out of the mannlicher and it shoots well. Anyway, I had 6 rounds left from the last time I bought ammo and walked in the door. Said I need some Roberts ammo and he said good luck. His assistant started looking behind the counter and found two boxes. Exactly what I needed. I said give me a box and the assistant said there might not be any more for a long long time and I said oh hell give me both. When I got back home and went on line he was right. There was no distributor in the US that had that ammo. All sold out and I looked everywhere. Figure I'm good for a few more years now. I generally shoot about 6 shells a season between checking my zero and knocking down a few deer. 2 Boxes should las for a while. If anyone has extra obsolete ammo (you sold the gun for example) now is the time to move it for sure.

Panic,hoarding or prudence?

Yes

tut,

"The Bob" is so underappreciated! I guess the likes of .260 Rem and the 6.5's have all stolen it's thunder. Just a good ole round nose at a medium velocity. I put the 7-30 Waters into a similar category.

NDG

One good thing that came out of this ammo shortage....the Democrats in Memphis shot all their ammo up last 4th of July....1 week prior to the 4th and 3 weeks after it literally sounded like a war zone....

Jan. 1 2021 rolls in.....very little gun fire then it dawned in me why.

Theyz all mostis outz of bulletz...

There is always a sunny side.

Hello tut, We can load (reload) all of the 257 Roberts ammo that you would like to. I sure hope that you have saved your empty cases...... Jent

Been thinking about this, Stan. I can't speak to the mindset or intentions of preppers. It's not my thing. But all aging hunters should welcome the infusion of young blood into our ranks. Sky busting with semis is the junior hunting equivalent of a 16-year-old boy's first "successful date." We should be happy they are out in the field, we should offer our advice and guidance when they come ashore, or maybe motor over and pay them a visit when the birds have stopped flying. We need young hunters. I know, I know, us older guys finally got the best hunting spots all dialed in and our guns right on the money, and it's a pain to have to deal with people crowding us. I feel your pain, honestly, I do. Big picture is we need that next generation of gun owners

Unfortunately....the younger generation doesn’t like advice or tips for the “old heads”. The generation in between the younger generation and the old guys are the same way....with a few exceptions of course. My observation of sky busters in the last few years are guys with gray hair all the way down to teenagers. I have to say....there seems to be a lot more guys out there with gray hair sky busting than there are teenagers or young kids. In the last year or two it seems a new generation of hunter has hit the marsh....they usually show up with 5 or more guys.l, all with beards and face paint, 10 minutes before shooting time..in a boat that sounds like a nascar..with a cooler of beer, screaming, hollering and high fiving every-time they unleash a volley at a flock of spoonbills. They leave their beer cans and empty hulls floating in the marsh and litter the parking lots with dead bird carcasses. On slow days...they like to shoot blackbirds, coots & crows...you know, just for kicks.
The uplands have gotten no better with the influx of “new hunters” either. Apps like OnX gives these adults & kids the power & confidence to argue with land owners about trespassing, etc. no matter how wrong they are. I’ve seen little regard in respecting posted land by this new generation.
New hunters young & old....I’m not impressed.

Because of COVID this past year, perhaps, the forests and streams I managed to attend were very busy. Since hunting and fishing are normally considered largely "solitary" pursuits, this wouldn't be seen by many "old guys" as a positive development. Even considering the significant need for recruitment of new hunters, I too have observed some of the less-than-positive activities described by LeFusil and was... accordingly, disappointed by it. Demographic shifts affect many things, and the outdoors crowd is changing as well. Instant gratification and social networking have given rise to values and behaviors that won't likely mesh well with folks of a more "traditional" persuasion. I see no real solutions on the horizon, only more people afield and more changes to how outdoor activities are conducted. I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet, so I keep trying to get a bit-more remote or even to find access to more "exclusive" locations. The law of diminishing returns, however, seems to be fighting me on that count as well.

I hate slob hunters. To me if a hunter does not show respect for the game and the land they ought to stay the heck home. I was taught to leave things as good or better than you found them. Passed that on to my kids. Watched this last duck season while my son picked up every spent shell and empty soda can at a blind sight we hunted on public land. He did that without my mentioning it. Raise them right and they do it right. Let them do it without any guidance and don't be surprised if they know any better.

Invited a young hunter this year to hunt with us. This marsh had only a couple prime spots and we had one of them by drawing. His spot was almost as bad as the parking lot for birds. He was enthusiastic to say the least. But he thought every duck that flew by was a mallard. After an hour he learned how to spot a spoonbill from a mallard when they flew over the decoys. My son could discern the difference long before that but he has been hunting with me for years. David was able to explain the difference to the other hunter and teach him what to look for. We value mallards a lot more than spoonbills, which we do not shoot. He calmed down and began waiting until birds were in range before shooting. Even remarked that they were a lot easier when the get closer. He just needed a bit of education like we all have at some point in time. We all need to encourage and educate younger hunters. They are our future.

I did not mean to convey that I am against all younger duck hunters. I'm afraid that's what I did, and I apologize for my poor wording. I feel quite the contrary. I raised two grandsons to hunt game birds of all kinds, and they still do, often now without me. This past season the ducks were few on my land. I let the grandsons have at them without me even being along. They did very well I think. The lessons taught them seem to have been remembered, and followed.

My post was more about those that Dustin described much better than I did. Sadly many, if not most, of those had no mentors to teach them.

SRH

Well, since I opened this can of worms, I will toss a few more out.
No question about it, wild places seem to be attracting a lot more interest than say, ten years ago. The rangers in several states tell me this and my experiences are telling me this. Meeting hunters in truly remote places where I had the run of the entire region is an odd, definitely unhappy feeling. But to that new guy, who just fled his own favorite spot that was over-run with new people, my place has lots of room. It's all a matter of perspective.
About those empty shells that go floating and bobbing away on the water's surface: I was told the crabs use them to lay their eggs, and that they provide more egg cover and protection than almost any natural location. I have caught crabs with eggs, but I have never seen a crab lay its eggs, so I don't know about this claim. Anyone?
Skybusting sucks for a bunch of reasons, obviously, but it is also a measure of enthusiasm. In a two week period I have managed to miss a huge, no make that enormous, male bobcat that I called in twice, in exactly the same location, because my heart rate rocketed and I could not get control of the gun. First time was with a scoped heavy barrel Remington 700 BDL .223 that makes a single 1/4" hole 'pattern' at 100 yards off of a bench, and which i have taken many critters with. Instead of collecting my tomcat, I missed him three times at 65 yards. He looked so awesome against the white snow that I was just unable to pull myself together. Then yesterday I called him in again, and I missed him five or six times or was it ten times with the open-sighted AR15 at exactly the same place I missed him two weeks ago. Again because I was totally rattled and could not take a deep breath and focus. He looked freakin AWESOME against that white snow! And so huge! So call it terrestrial skybusting, but it happens to even the most experienced and excited of us. That cat is probably inspecting a new cave or overhang in Tioga County right now. I feel like a fool. End of season shots at ducks and bobcats tend to be on the longer side. Hail Mary mindset. Or something. Don't judge me

Missing a bobcat at 65 yards with a scoped rifle isn't sky busting, it's not even akin. Shooting at ducks at 80-90 yards with a shotgun is.

Lots of new hunters is a good thing, overall. Many of them may grow up to be supporters of the 2nd Amendment. I hope so. But, it doesn't change the aspect that right now they are contributing to the consuming of large amounts of ammunition, and that contributes to the shortage we are experiencing. That was the original point of my post.

Best to you, SRH

And why are people skybusting? That was the point of my post...
All the best

I talk with some of the young guys who are doing this. They don't care about the ethics of it. They only care that they have enough shells to do it again next Saturday morning.

Why are they doing it? Because they can, and because they have the shells to do so, thanks to Dad's credit card. Maybe a shell shortage will cull a few of them out. It won't discourage the die hards. They're the ones that we need to stay in the game, and share the swamps, and 2nd Amendment battles with.

As to crabs laying eggs in empty shell casings ...... crabs got along just fine before there were empty shell casings littering the bay, IMO.

Stan what's the old Southern remedy for getting rid of the crabs ?

Went to Cabela's the other day, LOADS of Steel Shot, shotgun shells
NO 22 Ammo---Can't Get Any! $100 A Brick could be new normal
if you want to shoot? Guys are paying a lot more than that on GunBroker!

Let me get this one Stan.
Hey jOe! you old thrower of underhand softballs,
I believe the Old South would tell you to be more selective with whom you lay, avoid the crabs altogether.

HoJoe. The Marines would give you a can of lighter fluid and a kbar type knife. Squirt, light, stab them when they came out for the crabs you are alluding to.

One reason for sky busting is most hunters are terrible at judging distance. 40 yards is a decent long shot. 60-70 is beyond any hope for all but 1/2 of 1%, myself excluded. I have killed birds at such distance but only when young using heavy lead shot loads or in desperation on birds already hit hard but flying off to die beyond any hope of recovery.

Steel shot, unless extremely large, does not have enough energy to kill birds at 60-70 yards unless they hit exactly in the right spot. You see the same thing when a single dove flies down the field and gets shot at a dozen times. A Golden BB might kill it but no aimed shot will. By the end it will be 65-75 yards away from every shooter.

KY Jon....I completely agree. Another reason for sky busting is just good old fashioned blood lust. Hunters that feel that anything flies, it dies. I went to a fairly popular “public” marsh here in northern Utah to check how the rest ponds looked....it was a Friday around 1 pm....the place was a zoo. It looked like an outdoor sporting event, cars, trucks, boats. You name it. I was checking out an area, glassing it when a small flock of swans flew over at about 150 yards up....the entire marsh lit up like they were shooting at bombers over Dresden in WW2. It was absolutely ridiculous. The worse part is one of the dingalings actually broke one of the swans wings and it started it’s decent down, it landed in grass about 6 ft tall & -about 300 yards out from where this group of hunters were hiding out. I had it marked pretty well and the guys looking for it weren’t anywhere even close to where it went down. It was a damn shame. I saw that same group shoot at about 4 or 5 more flocks of swans that were about the same altitude or even higher. Ugh.
In that same marsh on the drive out...there was a group of 5 or 6 guys sitting on buckets at the edge of the water shooting at anything that flew over. These guys were wearing blue jeans and camo shirts, not one of them had waders on...and not one of them could retrieve a duck if it got shot and went into the water behind them. It was disgusting. I called and talked to the game warden (a really good guy) and he seemed to be just overwhelmed. They just don’t have the manpower to be everywhere. I believe this season set a record for game violations in the this State. I can believe it.

Can't say, never had a VD. Current problem for yOu? Try WebMd.

SRH

Stan you should have said send the girl in question back up North. Proper Southern girls never have problems like that.

Perhaps this will make all y'all feel better. I find it interesting how the self-styled "patriots" urging civil war seldom seem to recall the demographics of the military over the last few decades. Quite a number of non-traditional non-shooting community people have been trained with arms and likely shot at.
and now this
https://www.wivb.com/news/local-news/buffalo/ammunition-shortage-will-continue-throughout-2021/

have a nice day

HAHAHA! The story says the “panic” is created by seeing empty store shelves. What a joke. How ‘bout the panic that ensues when 911 service goes down for four days in the midst of a hellacious riot, that the elected officials of the fiefdom of Minneapolis are completely clueless as to what they should be doing to get it under control. Police, fire and ambulance service in first ring suburbs, where the 911 service still functions, is abruptly halted.

Nobody is coming to help.

Can’t happen here, right?

There is no ammunition shortage at my house. Not in 2021, not ever.

Best,
Ted

Skybusting is bad, but not much different than bow hunters who attempt 40 yard shots at deer with their compound bows, or elk hunters who lob in 800 yard shots at elk with their 7 mm mag, yet lack the ability to do either.

As KY Jon said, a big part of the problem is that many hunters are very poor at range estimation, and they also lack the knowledge of just what constitutes effective range for them, their gun, and their loads.

But sky busters aren't nearly the threat to us that people like Dr. Wanker, rocky mtn bill, or BrentD are, when they vote for and support anti-gun Democrats who spent decades infringing upon the 2nd Amendment, and are now doing all they can to silence any opposition, and trampling upon the 1st Amendment as well. Ask Republican Congressman Marjorie Taylor Green about freedom of speech under the new illegitimate regime. It is very easy to see what is driving panic buying and the ensuing ammo shortages. Gun and ammo buyers simply know when their Constitutional firearms ownership and shooting rights are threatened... so they naturally try to stock up while they can.

Put the blame where it belongs... on the FUDD's, Libtards, and anti-gun Democrats... and quit worrying about some kids who try to knock down a duck with a 100 yard crossing shot.

To add to the ridiculous state that we are in, I went to a large sporting goods store in Virginia to pick up a rifle that I had purchased off of GB and had shipped there. State Police background check system is down. Not happy considering I drove 30+ miles to pick it up. Not their fault. I walked around for about and hour and half, still wasn't up. I left and went to the local Publix for some items and went back, still down. I finally left and I'll try again Sunday.

While there I took a look at the ammunition section. Nothing but 28 gauge, a few slug loads and really obscure rifle caliber ammunition. Lots of firearms stacked behind the counter waiting for the system to come back up or checks previously delayed with a lot of frustrated and even angry customers.

As to the younger guys and hunting, I think some of it is that there is no one teaching them. They watch the shows on TV and see thirty minutes of blasting ducks to background rock music, or think you just set up a tree stand and shoot a 13 pointer in less than 30 minutes. They are receptive and appreciative to learning. While out chasing Woodcock I came across two young guys duck hunting. We chatted a bit and I pointed out that their decoys were too close to the bank, and too close together. Since they asked, I gave them a quick lesson in putting out a small decoy spread. I also mentioned concealment, as I could see them as I headed down there so ducks certainly could. I only went down there because I thought they were packing up. They seemed to appreciate it and I moved on away from them.

They are the future, and if we want our activities and traditions to continue long after we are gone we have to guide and help them when we can rather than gripe about them. Just my take anyway.

Picked up a Model 12 I won on a auction today. Background check was swamped. FFL showed me how many guns he transferred last month. He is a transfer only type dealer. In a normal month he might fill in a page to a page and a half in his log book. Last month he filled in five pages and has filled in three already so far this month. He does stock ammo but as most he has nothing on hand at all. I have been looking at GunBroker and guns which struggle to get any bids seem to be getting interest. Maybe time to clean out the project pile a bit.

Now is certainly the time to go through the ammo locker and see what you have that's no longer necessary. I did an inventory a couple of weeks ago and found ammo for guns I haven't owned for years. Specialty ammo is really in short supply. Try to find .257 Roberts, or 260 Remington, 6.5x55. Its no where to be found in the US right now and its not going to get better anytime soon. Ammo makers are cranking out their meat and potatoes stuff right now. Specialty stuff might not be around for another year. I was fortunate last fall that I needed a box of .257 Roberts and my local gunsmith had two on his shelf for $39. Only needed one but I bought both as he told me that might be it for a year or more and I'd better buy it now.

Hey all, same situation here in Bismarck (and basically all of ND). Shelves bare, very few guns, no reloading supplies.

Gee, I wonder why!

Good luck to all of you in your quest for ammo!

Best,

Greg

I think it is only fair if you live in a red state you should be able to easily find and buy ammo and reloading components you want. After all it is not our fault there are any shortages. We voted for the fellow who made ammo and guns so available that he ended the last eight years drought. Same should occur with oil. You can have the four dollar gas they want we will keep the two gas we had.

The "we" you speak of was election fraud.

I thought the big increase in gun and ammo sales was mostly related to personal, family, and business defense. We have been losing waterfowl hunters for years at the national level.

We are losing waterfowl hunters thanks to the Federal Duck Refuges.....ducks are congregated in Government duck housing projects.

I think the biggest reason for of what is going on right now can be summed up in one word. "Fear".

There is more than a bit of truth to what you are saying but not for the reason many think. DU has helped so many "restore" places for ducks to rest on the migration where they see little or no hunting pressure. They have it all in one place. Water, food and safety. Worse than that are the corn planted duck clubs which see very little hunting but hold thousand of birds in one place and the birds do not fly anywhere the five days a week they are not hunted. One club I know of has a $100,000 initiation fee and it cost $30,000 a year in fees. They have the ducks, but nobody within several miles ever see any ducks at all.

Not all the problem is the Federal Refuges. Legalized baiting adjacent to them is what has caused the blame to be placed solely at the refuges' feet.

Take a look at this podcast. It's in two parts. In part 2 noted call maker Jeff Foiles speaks. It's worth listening to. He starts speaking at about 7:03 into part 2.

https://www.arkansashunting.net/threads/where-are-the-ducks-part-1-2.257024/

SRH

Only difference between baiting and legal feeding is the guy who can only afford $7 for a fifty pound bag of shelled corn is baiting illegally whereas the guy who can afford to flood acres of planted corn worth forty K is legal, plus it is OK for him to charge his customers to help him hunt it. Same way hunting laws have always been...Geo

P.S.: If they'ed just allow me a half acre beaver pond and fifty pounds a week I'd be a happy man and promise to quit at 3 woodies every time.

Too, you have to >>mimic<< a farming practice where you cannot bush-hog it nor run over it w/ a 4 Wheeler. I have had a couple clients get in big trouble doing this. You can open up the harvester & let it fly out the back & that is fine. Semantics.....


Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Raimey, you most likely know that even the "mimic" deal is out the window with doves...Geo

Were we talking about Doves, I wasn't following that close & was on my own tangent as ususal.



Serbus,

Raimey
rse

But on the grain, you are supposed to leave 1/4 or 1/3, some set amount, on the Refugee when farming it. Sometimes that is not upheld as no one inspects nor is anyone held accountable.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

["Were we talking about Doves, I wasn't following that close & was on my own tangent as ususal." ellenbr]


Nah the conversation is ducks, but the irrationality of baiting laws is the bottom of it all...Geo

I thought it more about how the Federal duck refuges have altered the natural migration paths of waterfowl.

Actually the thread is about the ammo shortage. Little drift never hurt anybody...Geo

I guess it all depends upon who initiates the Thread Drift, and where it takes us.

But it looks like anti-gun Democrats may be trying to help alleviate the ammo shortage by making the cost so high that demand drops off. Here's a Fact Check from USA Today confirming that an anti-gun Democrat House Bill, H.R. 5717, introduced last month, would impose a 30% tax on firearms and a 50% tax on already high priced ammunition. Note that guns and ammo are already taxed at about 10%, and these new taxes would add to that tax burden.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...axes-firearms-and-ammunition/5231813002/

Want to make guns, hunting, and shooting unaffordable, illegal, and eventually a thing of the past???... Just keep electing anti-gun Democrats, and watch your gun rights keep eroding until they are gone. And allow Liberal Democrats to silence you when they cheat to win elections, and then claim there is no evidence of fraud.