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Posted By: Lloyd3 good starter over under in 20? - 12/15/20 10:59 PM
Not seeing much locally, my nephew is looking for something in the $700 range. Is that even a reasonable expectation?
Posted By: eeb Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/15/20 11:19 PM
Iíd suggest a Citori but in 20 he may have to pay more.
Posted By: Bob Cash Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/15/20 11:22 PM
Miroku
Probably wont happen for $700 but for a few $'s more...

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=101540146

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=101434011
Posted By: Replacement Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/16/20 12:13 AM
I bought my younger son a Miroku Daly 20 as his starter gun a long time ago. Nice gun, but they were much cheaper then. For a budget starter 20 these days, I would recommend a Yildiz from Academy. A friend bought a pair for his boys and they have turned out to be excellent guns for the money.
Posted By: Dan S. W. Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/16/20 02:17 AM
I see Miroku's come up in the local classifieds for $800 occasionally, but they are usually in 12.
Posted By: ed good Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/16/20 02:42 AM
savage 555?

https://www.google.com/search?q=savage+5...me&ie=UTF-8
Posted By: Ted Schefelbein Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/16/20 04:32 AM
Lloyd,
What Bob said. One of the sleepers from back in the day are the pre Garcia Beretta Silver Snipe O/Us, but, it has been a long time since I have seen a 20 go for less than about $800. You get Italian quality, a reliable, but, non selective single trigger, and fixed chokes. Steel shot is at your own risk. At this kind of money, I wouldnít lose much sleep over it, assuming less than modified choke.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/885237588

Best,
Ted
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/16/20 11:25 AM
This isn't quite as low as you specified, but who knows what they'll take? Make an offer? Even at $999 it's a lot of gun.

I've been shooting a Verona LX 692 28/.410 for about ten years. I have nothing but praise for it. Veronas are the most undervalued, overlooked O/U on the market, IMO.

If there's any concern about repairs there is a dealer/gunsmith in NV for FAIR, trained by the Rizzinis in Italy, named Bazil Slaughter. He ordered my FAIR Iside Tartaruga Gold .410 for me. Great guy, and a straight shooter.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=101559238

This is mine............



SRH
Posted By: AZMike Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/16/20 11:59 AM
I have enjoyed hunting with my Beretta BL4 20 gauge. It has 28" barrels (imp mod/mod) and handles very nicely. I bought it 15 years ago for $600.
Double Gun Journal Volume 12, Issue 2 has a good article on "Beretta Field Grade Doubles"
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/16/20 12:27 PM
I suggest he save his money or you add some money and buy him a Browning Citouri or an
Olin Kodensha Winchester 101.
My buddy Pete Feron that's 90 years old and brought back over 100 Winchester 101's when stationed in Japan in the 1960's when asked about his experiences with Mirouko said back in the early Mirouko days that they were prone to breaking and you couldn't give them away.

If you think you're nephew will be happy with a junk gun with gold painted birds then go with Stans suggestion.
Posted By: L. Brown Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/16/20 12:46 PM
Yes, it's very possible under $700. The Miroku Dalys are a good place to start. But in general, if you're willing to go with a gun that has fixed chokes, there's a significant price difference on the older versions that don't have choke tubes. Ithaca SKB is another one. Older Beretta or Franchi. Valmet. Possibly an early fixed choke Citori.
Posted By: Konor3inch Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/16/20 12:52 PM
This is probably a long shot but the later Olin Kodensha (Winchester 101)Classic Doubles shotguns donít sell at a premium here in the UK as they do in the US . Would it be a viable proposition to import one from the UK, eg there is a 201 20 bore at £895 on guntrader that has been there a few months. Would buying, importing and perhaps selling such a gun finance a better starter gun for your nephew?
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/16/20 12:57 PM
I dont think there is a later Olin Kodensha 101...
Posted By: Konor3inch Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/16/20 01:04 PM
Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
I dont think there is a later Olindeska 101...


I was referring to the Classic Doubles shotguns built on the same machinery and in the same factory as the Winchester 101 line of shotguns after the Classic Doubles company bought over the factory when Winchester ceased the manufacture of their shotguns there. I donít think there is such a shotgun as an Olindeska shotgun.
I think CVC then bought the prduction machinery from Classic Doubles and imported it to the US
Posted By: battle Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/16/20 01:23 PM
SKB
Posted By: Cold Iron Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/16/20 01:37 PM
Originally Posted By: Replacement
I bought my younger son a Miroku Daly 20 as his starter gun a long time ago. Nice gun, but they were much cheaper then. For a budget starter 20 these days, I would recommend a Yildiz from Academy. A friend bought a pair for his boys and they have turned out to be excellent guns for the money.


My youngest sons first shotgun was also a Miroku Daly 20 choked Sk and Sk. His grandfather had it reblued before he gave it to him.



Being fixed choke good for skeet and grouse but falls short for sporting clays and other venues and bird options. And it really doesn't fit him well. Bottom line is if the gun doesn't fit you it doesn't matter how cheap it is. I wouldn't hesitate to look at those Yildiz guns if there was an Academy Sports around.

The BL4/3 series in 20 ga. are in high demand by hunters so prices have gone up last few years. And there is the fixed choke thing to deal with although there is something to be said for fixed chokes IMO. For one it gives you an excuse to buy yet another gun.

Originally Posted By: Stan
This isn't quite as low as you specified, but who knows what they'll take? Make an offer? Even at $999 it's a lot of gun.

I've been shooting a Verona LX 692 28/.410 for about ten years. I have nothing but praise for it. Veronas are the most undervalued, overlooked O/U on the market, IMO.

If there's any concern about repairs there is a dealer/gunsmith in NV for FAIR, trained by the Rizzinis in Italy, named Bazil Slaughter. He ordered my FAIR Iside Tartaruga Gold .410 for me. Great guy, and a straight shooter.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=101559238

This is mine............



SRH


My youngest son first new gun was a Verona in 12 ga. FAIR makes a heck of a gun IME and the Verona line is a real sleeper. With interchangeable choke tubes.

FAIR's first introduction into the US was with NEA and I have a 16 ga. with both 28" for hunting and 30" bbl. for clays. It has tens of thousands of rounds over the years through it without a hiccup.



Italian Firearms Group is the importer for FAIR now and places like Lion Country Supply can order one for you including custom orders. I finally picked up a FAIR Iside in 16 ga. last year and wish I would had done so sooner.



The fit and finish on my FAIR guns are close to my B. Rizzini & Berretta target guns. And unlike Browning's and Winchester shotguns they fit me and work well. For me.
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/16/20 01:43 PM
Originally Posted By: Konor3inch
Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
I dont think there is a later Olin Kodensha 101...


I was referring to the Classic Doubles shotguns built on the same machinery and in the same factory as the Winchester 101 line of shotguns after the Classic Doubles company bought over the factory when Winchester ceased the manufacture of their shotguns there. I donít think there is such a shotgun as an Olindeska shotgun.
I think CVC then bought the prduction machinery from Classic Doubles and imported it to the US


The two mid 1960 101's I own are clearly marked on the bottom of the receivers "Olin Kodensha".

I believe Olin Kodensha was the name of the factory....I heard Winchester production stopped there when the factory was torn down.
Posted By: Konor3inch Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/16/20 01:53 PM
Olin was an employee of Winchester . Kodensha was the name of the company that produced the then Winchester line of shotguns 101 ,23 and the Parker reproduction. Classic Doubles made the 101 line under their name after Winchester production ceased.
Both my CD 101s were made around 1990. A game grade 2 and a 20 bore skeet gun.
Posted By: Konor3inch Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/16/20 01:56 PM
Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
Originally Posted By: Konor3inch
Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
I dont think there is a later Olin Kodensha 101...


I was referring to the Classic Doubles shotguns built on the same machinery and in the same factory as the Winchester 101 line of shotguns after the Classic Doubles company bought over the factory when Winchester ceased the manufacture of their shotguns there. I donít think there is such a shotgun as an Olindeska shotgun.
I think CVC then bought the prduction machinery from Classic Doubles and imported it to the US


The two mid 1960 101's I own are clearly marked on the bottom of the receivers "Olin Kodensha".

I believe Olin Kodensha was the name of the factory....I heard Winchester production stopped there when the factory was torn down.


Not marked Olindeska as first thought ? I see you have altered your Olindeska to Olin Kodensha in your posts.
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/16/20 01:59 PM
Editing your mistakes, without it showing it was edited, is a cool feature, eh Frank? Amazing how the "Olindeska" just went away.

Well played, Konor.

SRH
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/16/20 02:05 PM
Originally Posted By: Stan
Editing your mistakes, without it showing it was edited, is a cool feature, eh Frank? Amazing how the "Olindeska" just went away.

Well played, Konor.

SRH


"Well played"...what a dumb'azz.

Stan I finally saw your church video on facebook... bOy you look like death eating a crAcker.

Just saying

Touche.
Posted By: Konor3inch Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/16/20 02:05 PM
Originally Posted By: Stan
Editing your mistakes, without it showing it was edited, is a cool feature, eh Frank? Amazing how the "Olindeska" just went away.

Well played, Konor.

SRH


Iím surprised anyone would bother to correct genuine mistakes I work from memory on my posts as my contribution rather than google so may be prone to mistakes myself. But Iím not the kind of guy that tries to pull the wool over anyoneís eyes.
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/16/20 02:07 PM
I bet you two spell checker skOol marms are pecker checkers too...
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/16/20 02:08 PM
The only thing surprising about Frank, to most of us here, is when he posts something useful.

SRH
Posted By: Konor3inch Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/16/20 02:11 PM
Originally Posted By: Konor3inch
Originally Posted By: Stan
Editing your mistakes, without it showing it was edited, is a cool feature, eh Frank? Amazing how the "Olindeska" just went away.

Well played, Konor.

SRH


Iím surprised anyone would bother to correct genuine mistakes I work from memory on my posts as my contribution rather than google so may be prone to mistakes myself. But Iím not the kind of guy that tries to pull the wool over anyoneís eyes.
Homeless it seems like your credibility just took a dent. If you look up CVC 101 ie Connecticut Valley Classics 101 I think you will find out a bit more about the fate of the 101 post Winchester.

Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/16/20 02:15 PM
Originally Posted By: Konor3inch
Homeless it seems like your credibility just took a dent.


Actually, you can't dent something that doesn't exist ..........

Just sayin'

SRH

OBTW, that's one of the reasons he hides his presence online, too.
Posted By: Konor3inch Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/16/20 02:23 PM
Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
I bet you two spell checker skOol marms are pecker checkers too...



Itís not spelling that is the fault itís the slyness involved in covering up mistakes.

Sorry for my part in taking this off thread I hope your nephew finds a suitable gun.
Posted By: Lloyd3 Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/16/20 02:27 PM
Thanks folks. I don't shoot over/unders so I'm patently ignorant of the available options. I scanned the usual places online and just wasn't seeing much (except fairly wild prices). I'll pass along your suggestions to his dad. It strikes me that prices on even the most pedestrian o/us are fairly steep, especially in 20 bore? Wish we could say the same for a good British boxlock.
Posted By: AZMike Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/16/20 02:28 PM
The $700 ceiling might preclude even rough used O/U's. Beretta has proven that their autos are great for sporting and field use. I would not exclude autoloaders in your nephew's search.
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/16/20 02:35 PM
Originally Posted By: Stan
Originally Posted By: Konor3inch
Homeless it seems like your credibility just took a dent.


Actually, you can't dent something that doesn't exist ..........

Just sayin'

SRH

OBTW, that's one of the reasons he hides his presence online, too.

What a twit...

I don't hide my presence online...I just don't stay logged in on here and waste my day dAy dreaming like you do.
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/16/20 02:36 PM
Originally Posted By: Lloyd3
Thanks folks. I don't shoot over/unders so I'm patently ignorant of the available options. I scanned the usual places online and just wasn't seeing much (except fairly wild prices). I'll pass along your suggestions to his dad. It strikes me that prices on even the most pedestrian o/us are fairly steep, especially in 20 bore? Wish we could say the same for a good British boxlock.


Reason you can't is because most were clapped out by the time they hit our shores...
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/16/20 02:40 PM
Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
I just don't stay logged in on here and waste my day dAy dreaming like you do.


Yeah, right. That's why you've got the highest number of posts of anybody here.

SRH
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/16/20 02:43 PM
My post count reflects my need to keep bOzoz like you and KOnad in line....
Posted By: Konor3inch Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/16/20 03:57 PM
Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
My post count reflects my need to keep bOzoz like you and KOnad in line....


Quality not quantity is a good maxim. Youíre not keeping anyone in line with fake information,................that you later correct but havenít the character to admit to.

Letís stick to doubleguns rather than time wasting play fights. Itís double guns ,their use and our experiences that count not abusive post counts.
Posted By: Replacement Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/16/20 04:26 PM
Back on topic. I'd avoid a Win or CD 101, unless it is an extremely good deal, because parts are almost impossible to find. With older O/Us like Beretta or Miroku, parts can be had. I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the first generation Ruger Red Label 20s with the blued frame. They were fixed choke only, but that can be addressed down the road. Very nicely finished, most with excellent wood, kind of a sleeper.

Best advice for buying a starter gun, new or used, is to buy the best one that you can find at your price point. Pick a price and look at everything, rather than looking for a specific gun.
Posted By: Konor3inch Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/16/20 05:54 PM
I would second Replacemenís suggestions and add that if weight is a concern that the Beretta would be a good option, my old 687 and my present Orvis uplander come in around the 6lb 2oz mark. I think my Classic Doubles 20 bore skeet is around the 7lb mark. The Ruger would be a good ďbuy AmericanĒ option but the two twelve bores I owned were both barrel heavy and had poorly finished ribs. The joint on the raised rib at the end of the chamber area was raised higher at one side than the other and is a common cosmetic fault with them ,that aside they were a good gun for the money.
Posted By: ed good Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/16/20 09:13 PM
nother option is the weatherby orion, made by skb...

they are nice guns for around a grand...
Posted By: Replacement Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/16/20 09:43 PM
Quote:
they are nice guns for around a grand...


But OP is around $700. Big difference.
Posted By: Bruce Bernacki Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/17/20 12:21 AM
Nobody has mentioned the CZ guns. I recall the OP being interested in the CZ Bobwhite G2 SXS a while back. I have their Upland Ultralight OU in 12 gauge, no complaints, as well as a Bobwhite. Good guns for the money and good customer service. Certainly their all-steel guns in 12 gauge are too heavy for upland in my opinion, but they do have alloy-framed models. The CZ Drake has an MSRP of $675.

Normal Turkish gun stuff applies: it may come with a heavy trigger but if it's atrocious, CZ USA will take care of it under warranty. They did for me with my Bobwhite with quick turn around and to my satisfaction.

Bruce
Posted By: Ted Schefelbein Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/17/20 01:23 AM
Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
Originally Posted By: Lloyd3
Thanks folks. I don't shoot over/unders so I'm patently ignorant of the available options. I scanned the usual places online and just wasn't seeing much (except fairly wild prices). I'll pass along your suggestions to his dad. It strikes me that prices on even the most pedestrian o/us are fairly steep, especially in 20 bore? Wish we could say the same for a good British boxlock.


Reason you can't is because most were clapped out by the time they hit our shores...


Bad British boxlocks in 20 gauge sell for way more than $700.

Lloyd, I think decent 20 gauge O/U guns are just going to cost more than $700. If you want a quick study in reality of small bore pricing, simply change 20 gauge to 28 gauge, and see what happens to the price of the same guns.
Something like this is more realistic, me thinks:

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=101534970

O/U guns are far more mainstream than SXS guns. They are priced accordingly.

Thus far, I have successfully managed to avoid any and all Muslim guns, and can offer no input on suitability, or, lack there of.

Best,
Ted
Posted By: Bluestem Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/17/20 02:41 AM
I bought a like-new Beretta 20-gauge Black Onyx with 28" barrels for my son a few years ago at a Cabela's Gun Library (pre Bass Pro) and paid $900. I flat-out got lucky.

Used Beretta, Browning/Miroku, and Japanese SKB/Ithaca/Weatherby OU's would be good choices, but you may have to do some digging at that price point. 26" barrels usually go for less money than 28" barrels if that matters to your nephew. As previously noted, the BL-series Berettas are starting to get a cult-like following in some areas. Getting parts for them also is difficult per Rich Cole. 20-gauge Ruger Red Labels weigh close to a Beretta 12-gauge 686. If he is willing to consider a 12, you can find a Beretta that is closer to his price point and weighs around 7-pounds, sometimes a bit less.

If he plans on putting only a few boxes of shells per year through it than some of the Turkish guns may suffice. If he plans on doing any target shooting I would go with one of the above brands. I know a few guys that used CZ guns during trap league and they all had issues: triggers, ejectors, and/or firing pin problems. They all moved on to other brands. CZ does good warranty work; they get lots of practice.
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/17/20 03:36 AM
Originally Posted By: Replacement
Back on topic. I'd avoid a Win or CD 101, unless it is an extremely good deal, because parts are almost impossible to find.


I beg to differ new 101 parts are listed all over Ebay.
Posted By: Bluestem Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/17/20 04:06 AM
Some of the Ithaca guns made by SKB are a bit under the radar. https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=101565744

12-gauge but good gun to grow into: https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=101558076

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=100532365

Make an offer, who knows?...
Posted By: nca225 Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/17/20 05:11 AM
Wouldn't a single shot Stevens suffice for the ground slicing Lloyd? They go for a lot less then $700.00 too.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...=101529342#md-1

This one's a 16, but it will give you a staring point for pricing them out.
Posted By: Replacement Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/17/20 05:12 AM
Quote:
I beg to differ new 101 parts are listed all over Ebay.


I beg to differ. The vast majority of 101 parts listed on eBay are for 12 ga guns. Small bore parts are pretty scarce.

I have Olin Kodensha 101s in 12 and .410, and I like them, but I still think there are better choices for OP.

Re the previous comment about the weight of Ruger 20s, I would also tend to disagree with that. I have Ruger 20s with 26" and 30" barrels. Subjectively (because I have not weighed both guns), my Ruger 20/26" is perhaps lighter than an acquaintance's 101 Pigeon. And my Ruger 20/30" is no heavier than my 687 Silver Pigeon, but neither of those is a $700 gun.
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/17/20 12:27 PM
Originally Posted By: Bluestem
If he plans on putting only a few boxes of shells per year through it than some of the Turkish guns may suffice.


I would not suggest a Turkish O/U for anybody, regardless the shell count. I have seen too many of them that had trigger issues, bought new.

I do not understand why some brands Turkish S X Ss are so reliable, and the same brand O/U is not, but that's been my experience. Take it for what it's worth, but it's firsthand info. It's been several years since I encountered those, and I hope the issues have been addressed since then by the manufacturer, but have no personal evidence of that.

I would give a kid the extra $400 myself to see him have a good, used Italian O/U rather than see him saddled with a cheap Turk O/U.
Posted By: Buzz Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/17/20 12:33 PM
Two words I recommend.......go Beretta or Browning. If you look real hard, you may be able to find one of the original Citori 20ís with short barrels at your price point....
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/17/20 02:33 PM
That last one is a nice looking gun...the long barrel guys would be all over it claiming the barrel is too short.
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/17/20 02:37 PM
Last year I ran across a 26" Citouri unfired in the box made in 1991 with short invectors for a grande. I hope my grandson is big enough to shoot it this year.

I know your nephew is not going to want to wait on a once in a lifetime deal.

One other suggestion dont be afraid to go with a 26" barrel...xspurts shot them for years.
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/17/20 02:42 PM
Who made the Verona cOrona you were hyping earlier...sounds like a dang type writer.

Stan over the years I've really been surprised to see yOu the acclaimed shotgun gUru buying and shooting these junk shotguns...

Heres a tip Queeny try putting in an extra 400 bucks yourself next time you get the urge to go Verona
Posted By: Lloyd3 Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/17/20 02:48 PM
I agree with the consensus that cheaper isn't the better option here. I'm guessing that $1000 seems to be the new minimum for practical/functional. It's not my call, thankfully. Clearly, the simplicity of a single sighting plane and a single trigger seems to be very attractive to the majority of shooters anymore.
Posted By: KY Jon Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/17/20 02:54 PM
Why 20 gauge? Is it weight or recoil? There are so many more options in 12 gauge if weight is not a big deal. If you reload you could easily drop down to 3/4 ounces so recoil would be almost nothing. Then as he grew heavier loads could be used. I often see beginners started out with a .410, a caliber I love but it is almost useless to a beginner trying to hit flying targets.

My father started all of his boys out with a 20 single shot. As soon as we could handle that we were moved to other guns. My Christmas gift at age 12 was a Winchester Model 12 Skeet gun in 28 gauge with a split case of one ounce Winchester 6ís and 7 1/2ís. With that I hunted everything. What a gift that was.
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/17/20 03:05 PM
A $700 quality 20 ga. O/Ur is an impossible dream.

Might get him a 20 ga. pump and $300 worth of ammo with the left over change.
Posted By: Lloyd3 Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/17/20 03:07 PM
KY Jon: This is a pretty slight young man and his dad doesn't want to overwhelm him with either weight or recoil. A 28 would work as well, but 20-gauge shells are just far-easier to obtain in most places.
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/17/20 03:13 PM
I started my older grandson on a youth 870 .20 pump as he grew I bought him an 870 12 ga. and later when he started duck hunting with his buddies I bought him SBE now he thinks he's an x'spurt shot.

I still have both trainer guns. My youngest 8 will start on the same 870 youth 20 ga. pump and then the same 870 12 ga...
Posted By: Little Creek Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/17/20 03:42 PM
I doubt we can find a new or even used decent quality 20 ga O/U for $700. I used an Ithaca model 37 20 gauge for quail hunting in Kansas when I was in the Army. What a quick handling, light weight little gun! That's a possible starter gun of quality in his price range...
Posted By: Replacement Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/17/20 03:43 PM
HoJo has a point about the 870 (or an 1100 LT20). The guns are reliable and butt stocks are cheap, so easy to put on a cut stock until the kid grows into the gun. If the budget really is limited to $700, this would open up a lot of possibilities. An LT20 would simultaneously solve the problems of weight, recoil, and budget.
Posted By: KY Jon Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/17/20 03:44 PM
There is aCharles Daly 20 ga., 26Ē cyl and IC. On GunBroker for 750. I would ask them to weigh it and see if it is in the six pound range. Made in Italy not Turkey. You might even find a earlier Japanese version if you look long enough. Solid gun but not too flashy. 26Ē barrels should be easier for a slight person to handle and the weight should be fairly light.

If this is a small person I would load up a large number of 3/4 ounce 20 ga loads. That would keep recoil to a minimum. Do not pick a 1250-1300 FPS load. There are many in the 1100-1200 FPS range which are soft shooting and hard hitting. Patterns can be tightened up a bit with larger shot as well.

For 800 there is a Miroku CD 20. 28Ē, 6 pounds they were very well made guns. That might be my first choice.
Posted By: Little Creek Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/17/20 03:56 PM
Here's your $700 O/U!

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=101521363
Posted By: Little Creek Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/17/20 03:59 PM
And a cleaner gun:

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=101518999
Posted By: Lloyd3 Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/17/20 04:36 PM
Little Creek: Thank you. I had wondered about the Marlin 90s. If it were up to me, then maybe. But....daddy-o here is a millennial and he sees the old stuff in a very different light. Oh well. I have to wonder if he has some designs on the gun himself as well(?). Can't hate him for that I guess. Some very good options have been identified here, Citori, Miroku, the Charles Daily guns, the Veronas, etc. I have forwarded it all on to him.
Posted By: Konor3inch Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/17/20 04:44 PM
Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
I started my older grandson on a youth 870 .20 pump as he grew I bought him an 870 12 ga. and later when he started duck hunting with his buddies I bought him SBE now he thinks he's an x'spurt shot.

I still have both trainer guns. My youngest 8 will start on the same 870 youth 20 ga. pump and then the same 870 12 ga...


Do they ever get to hunt with your olindeskas Joe ? those guns named after that Japanese town you mentioned earlier, then deleted.. They canít help but escalate in price due to their rarity so perhaps best to keep them locked in the cabinet for safe keeping.
I think your advice is sound on the 870 but think the model 37 featherlight in 20 bore would be a better option for a young lad if a pump action was favoured.

A straight hand stocked beretta 20 with a light load would be a good option if part sharing with Dad was on the cards.
Posted By: BrentD Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/17/20 04:50 PM
Those two Marlin's look like winners to me.

As a person who started on a singleshot 20 and then graduated to a pump 12, I think pump guns for young kids are a mistake, especially in 12 gauge. Short butstocks are nice, but not sufficient. The whole action/balance is wrong and only gets worse with a short stock. They are heavy and require the long reach to operate them.

Any sort of double is much better with the geometry, and the balance can be, at least, not as bad as a loaded pump gun.

Ditto this for women shooters. I often seem them shooting "youth" 870s and similar. None of them shoot them well. But those few that have half decently fitted doubles of any kind, always shoot better.

Just my observations.
Posted By: Konor3inch Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/17/20 04:54 PM
The first Marlin has quite a crack in the head of the stock.
I think a short barrelled over and under is the way to go especially if Dad shares and adds a little more to the pot.
I started with an AYA Cosmos single 12 with 30 inch barrel full choke and a .410 adapter. Probably the wrong gun for numerous reasons but I have many fond memories of it as it was my only gun until I scraped together enough cash for a double barrel at 17 years of age. Singles were a lot more common in the field for rough shooting back then. My first shots using it as a 12 bore were with Eley 2inch cartridges, 7/8 oz shot. I put a few Winchester XX 1 7/8 oz through it too at geese.
Posted By: Bob Cash Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/17/20 05:54 PM
Originally Posted By: Konor3inch
...Do they ever get to hunt with your olindeskas Joe ? those guns named after that Japanese town you mentioned earlier, then deleted.
They canít help but escalate in price due to their rarity so perhaps best to keep them locked in the cabinet for safe keeping...

Ho Ho Ho laugh
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/17/20 08:30 PM
Originally Posted By: CluelessjOe
Who made the Verona cOrona you were hyping earlier...sounds like a dang type writer.


Rizzini. Ever heard of the Rizzini family? They're Italian gunmakers. As in Fabricca Armi Isidoro Rizzini (FAIR).

Verona is simply a model in their line of guns. Kinda like 101 is a gun model made by Winchester.

Get it now?

SRH
Posted By: Lloyd3 Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/17/20 08:55 PM
Stan: That Verona looks an awful lot like an early Rizzini Aurum (yet another option) assuming you could find one. There were even off-brand Rizzinis made for LL Bean (and others) that were great buys as well that used to come through the shop. There were also the Rizzini cousins, the Guerinis, that used to be fairly reasonable. Again, finding one is the challenge. That Verona would likely be the best solution here but sadly, nobody's listening.
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/17/20 09:29 PM
Lloyd, the Aurum is a B. Rizzini gun. B. Rizzini is Isidoro Rizzinis brother, Batista. Together, and in conjunction with brother Emilio, and others, they comprise F.A.I.R., Fausti, B. Rizzini, F.lli. Rizzini, Ferlib and Caesar Guerini......... a veritable gunmaking dynasty of the Val Trompia region.

The Aurum would certainly be another great choice.

SRH
Posted By: Cold Iron Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/17/20 10:45 PM
Originally Posted By: Stan
Lloyd, the Aurum is a B. Rizzini gun. B. Rizzini is Isidoro Rizzinis brother, Batista. Together, and in conjunction with brother Emilio, and others, they comprise F.A.I.R., Fausti, B. Rizzini, F.lli. Rizzini, Ferlib and Caesar Guerini......... a veritable gunmaking dynasty of the Val Trompia region.

The Aurum would certainly be another great choice.

SRH


In addition to the 3 FAIR made guns I own I also have 2 B. Rizzini target guns. I recall well when Batista sued his brother Isidoro for the rights to the name Rizzini in the US. Which is why Rizzini now means B. Rizzini here and I. Rizzini is usually referred to as FAIR.

My youngest son that started out with a Miroku Daly 20 then a Verona shot my B. Rizzini one day and said how can you miss with this gun? And he didn't miss often. At the age of 14 but close to 15 he was the Mn. ATA Class runner up with a 193x200 using it. Figured I wasn't going to ever get it back from him so bought another for myself. We all tried to tell him it wasn't a trap gun but he refused to listen. And showed us otherwise. Personally I would rather shoot any other venue than trap except for wobble trap.
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/18/20 12:29 AM
Originally Posted By: Bob Cash the gun cOunterfitter
Originally Posted By: Konor3inch
...Do they ever get to hunt with your olindeskas Joe ? those guns named after that Japanese town you mentioned earlier, then deleted.
They canít help but escalate in price due to their rarity so perhaps best to keep them locked in the cabinet for safe keeping...

Ho Ho Ho laugh


Whatz up Bobby...
Posted By: Lloyd3 Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/18/20 12:44 AM
Stan: You read my mind. I pulled rank (just a little) and had a Come to Jesus with my brother-in-law. Long story short, he bought the Verona. Quick question or two...when & where were the Verona guns made and by who, Isidoro? Batista made all the guns that Mark Reynolds sold new in my time there and they were spectacular guns. Next question, this Verona has choke tubes, but only two (full & mod). Do you know if the later Rizzini guns have choke tubes that will interchange with these earlier guns?
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/18/20 12:52 AM
Originally Posted By: Stan the internet Queen
Originally Posted By: CluelessjOe
Who made the Verona cOrona you were hyping earlier...sounds like a dang type writer.


Rizzini. Ever heard of the Rizzini family? They're Italian gunmakers. As in Fabricca Armi Isidoro Rizzini (FAIR).

Verona is simply a model in their line of guns. Kinda like 101 is a gun model made by Winchester.

Get it now?

SRH


So a Verona is made in the Rizzinni factory...or is it just part of a big conglomerate.
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/18/20 12:53 AM
Good call. They handle exactly like a Beretta Silver Pigeon, IMO.

The Verona is a I. Rizzini gun (FAIR). I'm not sure about the choke tube interchangeability. Mine came with 5, plus several Briley extended ones. I can find out for you, but if you're looking for flush mount tubes you should call Bazil Slaughter in NV. He will have extras on hand, I'm sure.

Slaughter Gunsmithing
702-610-0334

If you call, tell him I said Hi!

SRH
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/18/20 01:11 AM
Originally Posted By: CluelessjOe
Originally Posted By: Stan the internet Queen
Originally Posted By: CluelessjOe
Who made the Verona cOrona you were hyping earlier...sounds like a dang type writer.


Rizzini. Ever heard of the Rizzini family? They're Italian gunmakers. As in Fabricca Armi Isidoro Rizzini (FAIR).

Verona is simply a model in their line of guns. Kinda like 101 is a gun model made by Winchester.

Get it now?

SRH


So a Verona is made in the Rizzinni factory...or is it just part of a big conglomerate.


Yes. It is properly called a FAIR Verona. Made by the Rizzini family in their factory, run by Luca Rizzini.

SRH
Posted By: Ted Schefelbein Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/18/20 01:13 AM
Originally Posted By: BrentD
Those two Marlin's look like winners to me.

As a person who started on a singleshot 20 and then graduated to a pump 12, I think pump guns for young kids are a mistake, especially in 12 gauge. Short butstocks are nice, but not sufficient. The whole action/balance is wrong and only gets worse with a short stock. They are heavy and require the long reach to operate them.

Any sort of double is much better with the geometry, and the balance can be, at least, not as bad as a loaded pump gun.

Ditto this for women shooters. I often seem them shooting "youth" 870s and similar. None of them shoot them well. But those few that have half decently fitted doubles of any kind, always shoot better.

Just my observations.


Not all pumps are 870s. You paint with a broad brush:



Sub 6lb Remington model 17. Just about everyone who ever touched it shot it well, and many of those were gun safety school kids and their nervous motherís. A key is keeping the loads light for newbs, but, a guy could do a lot worse for his kid or wife.

Best,
Ted
Posted By: Cold Iron Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/18/20 01:15 AM
Originally Posted By: Lloyd3
Stan: You read my mind. I pulled rank (just a little) and had a Come to Jesus with my brother-in-law. Long story short, he bought the Verona. Quick question or two...when & where were the Verona guns made and by who, Isidoro? Batista made all the guns that Mark Reynolds sold new in my time there and they were spectacular guns. Next question, this Verona has choke tubes, but only two (full & mod). Do you know if the later Rizzini guns have choke tubes that will interchange with these earlier guns?


I'm not Stan but...

Yes the Verona guns were made by Isidoro, FAIR. The FAIR chokes are interchangeable in their line of guns. FAIR actually got its start making choke tubes, Technichoke, and still make them in subgages for several other manufactures.

B. Rizzini choke tubes are NOT interchangeable with FAIR guns. The first B. Rizzini tubes were made without slots for a wrench (Teague style tubes) by Seminole mainly the Bean guns IIRC. After that they started making their own and the first generation they made throws the best patterns I have ever seen. But again are not interchangeable with FAIR guns.

Verona O\U guns made by FAIR use Verona LX chokes. You will often see Verona SX chokes but those are made for the Turkish semi autos that Verona also imported at the same time.

You can get Verona LX chokes from Trulock

And of course Briley

Chokes from either of those will work I have a few of the Brileys in SK and LM.
Posted By: Lloyd3 Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/18/20 01:16 AM
Bless you Stan, I'll do just that.
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/18/20 01:20 AM
Originally Posted By: Cold Iron

You can get Verona LX chokes from Trulock

And of course Briley


And, if you're interested in high quality extended ones, from Comp-N-Choke, too.

For a kid learning to shoot I'd stick with the flush factory ones. I often use them in my 28 when quail hunting with it.

SRH
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/18/20 01:26 AM
Originally Posted By: Stan the Verona X'spurt
Originally Posted By: CluelessjOe
Originally Posted By: Stan the internet Queen
Originally Posted By: CluelessjOe
Who made the Verona cOrona you were hyping earlier...sounds like a dang type writer.


Rizzini. Ever heard of the Rizzini family? They're Italian gunmakers. As in Fabricca Armi Isidoro Rizzini (FAIR).

Verona is simply a model in their line of guns. Kinda like 101 is a gun model made by Winchester.

Get it now?

SRH


So a Verona is made in the Rizzinni factory...or is it just part of a big conglomerate.


Yes. It is properly called a FAIR Verona. Made by the Rizzini family in their factory, run by Luca Rizzini.

SRH


Well my research tells me no one really knows where Verona is made...some claim by Rizzini in Italy some say in Turkey...looks like you might have you a turkey Stanley.

I noticed a recall notice on some of the Veronas...
Posted By: BrentD Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/18/20 01:29 AM
Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein
Originally Posted By: BrentD
Those two Marlin's look like winners to me.

As a person who started on a singleshot 20 and then graduated to a pump 12, I think pump guns for young kids are a mistake, especially in 12 gauge. Short butstocks are nice, but not sufficient. The whole action/balance is wrong and only gets worse with a short stock. They are heavy and require the long reach to operate them.

Any sort of double is much better with the geometry, and the balance can be, at least, not as bad as a loaded pump gun.

Ditto this for women shooters. I often seem them shooting "youth" 870s and similar. None of them shoot them well. But those few that have half decently fitted doubles of any kind, always shoot better.

Just my observations.


Not all pumps are 870s. You paint with a broad brush:



Sub 6lb Remington model 17. Just about everyone who ever touched it shot it well, and many of those were gun safety school kids and their nervous motherís. A key is keeping the loads light for newbs, but, a guy could do a lot worse for his kid or wife.

Best,
Ted


It's not all about weight and LOP either.

Besides, it's well known that 98.7% of all first pumpguns are either 870s or Mossbergs... smile
Posted By: Replacement Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/18/20 01:53 AM
FAIR also made the Cortona line of O/Us for Kalispell (the case company). Those chokes are interchangeable with the Verona O/Us by FAIR.

HoJo: You need to follow this thread a bit more closely. Verona is just a brand name (like Charles Daly), and they had guns made for the Verona label by various companies (as did Charles Daly). The O/Us were by FAIR and the semi autos were by a Turkish outfit. So, Stan's Verona OUs are not Turkish.

I think the NEA guns were also from FAIR, but my memory is getting hazy on that one.

When Sig USA tried to crack the shotgun market about 20 years ago, they started with the SA3 and the SA5. As I recall, the SA3s were built by FAIR and the SA5s were built by B.Rizzini. Two different guns with the Sig label on them, but the choke tubes were not interchangeable.
Posted By: Ted Schefelbein Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/18/20 03:01 AM
Originally Posted By: BrentD
Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein
Originally Posted By: BrentD
Those two Marlin's look like winners to me.

As a person who started on a singleshot 20 and then graduated to a pump 12, I think pump guns for young kids are a mistake, especially in 12 gauge. Short butstocks are nice, but not sufficient. The whole action/balance is wrong and only gets worse with a short stock. They are heavy and require the long reach to operate them.

Any sort of double is much better with the geometry, and the balance can be, at least, not as bad as a loaded pump gun.

Ditto this for women shooters. I often seem them shooting "youth" 870s and similar. None of them shoot them well. But those few that have half decently fitted doubles of any kind, always shoot better.

Just my observations.


Not all pumps are 870s. You paint with a broad brush:



Sub 6lb Remington model 17. Just about everyone who ever touched it shot it well, and many of those were gun safety school kids and their nervous motherís. A key is keeping the loads light for newbs, but, a guy could do a lot worse for his kid or wife.

Best,
Ted


It's not all about weight and LOP either.

Besides, it's well known that 98.7% of all first pumpguns are either 870s or Mossbergs... smile


In Iowa. Maybe.

Best,
Ted

___________________________________________
If every resident of the Minnesota counties that border Iowa, moved to Iowa,
the cumulative IQ of both states would go up.
Posted By: BrentD Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/18/20 03:02 AM
Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein
Originally Posted By: BrentD
Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein
Originally Posted By: BrentD
Those two Marlin's look like winners to me.

As a person who started on a singleshot 20 and then graduated to a pump 12, I think pump guns for young kids are a mistake, especially in 12 gauge. Short butstocks are nice, but not sufficient. The whole action/balance is wrong and only gets worse with a short stock. They are heavy and require the long reach to operate them.

Any sort of double is much better with the geometry, and the balance can be, at least, not as bad as a loaded pump gun.

Ditto this for women shooters. I often seem them shooting "youth" 870s and similar. None of them shoot them well. But those few that have half decently fitted doubles of any kind, always shoot better.

Just my observations.


Not all pumps are 870s. You paint with a broad brush:



Sub 6lb Remington model 17. Just about everyone who ever touched it shot it well, and many of those were gun safety school kids and their nervous motherís. A key is keeping the loads light for newbs, but, a guy could do a lot worse for his kid or wife.

Best,
Ted


It's not all about weight and LOP either.

Besides, it's well known that 98.7% of all first pumpguns are either 870s or Mossbergs... smile


In Iowa. Maybe.

Best,
Ted

___________________________________________
If every resident of the Minnesota counties that border Iowa, moved to Iowa,
the cumulative IQ of both states would go up.


Actually, Ted, I lived in Minnesota at the time.

You know, every state tells that same joke about the state below it on the map.
Posted By: Ted Schefelbein Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/18/20 03:51 AM


Every state, except Iowa.

Sorry, an 870 is a poor example of a beginners gun. Iíll grant you the specific ďyouthĒ models of the 870 and the Mossberg might be worse than no gun, but, figuring that out should be up to the non beginner that is the mentor.

After I adapted a 26Ē barrel to replace the 18Ē barrel that came on a Mossberg Youth 20 gauge, it became a superb starter gun. The only barrel available for the youth 20 gauge is 18Ē from Mossberg, so you have to procure a longer one from a 20 gauge model 500 and relocate the lug to make it work. The plastic stock has good dimensions, the two shot magazine helps keep it light, and it is trim and well balanced. With the long barrel, anyway.

My kid loved it, but, has moved on to 12s.

Best,
Ted
Posted By: Dave Erickson Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/18/20 12:20 PM
Word is some Iowa cheerleaders went missing shortly before the Packers revamped their offensive line. shhh!
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/18/20 01:40 PM
By chance was one of them named VerO'naka...
Posted By: oskar Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/18/20 01:59 PM
I'm short in stature and most of my shotguns have been shortened to youth length and I shoot a 870 Youth very well. Light 20ga shotguns can be very hard recoiling shotguns. I've pretty much abandoned 20's in favor of light 12's and shoot 11/16 and 7/8 oz loads for clay birds and 7/8 and 1 oz for hunting.

I would surely look for a 26" barreled light 12 and cut the stock, save the piece to add back when needed..

The 870 suggestion I think is a great idea I gave my 870 youth 20 to my daughter and she and my granddaughter share it when out busting clays in the gravel pit.

21" 870 cut to youth dimension and a 26" SKB 100 surprisingly they handle very much alike.


Drying out in front of the stove after coming back from a combination waterfowl and coyote hunt SKB for the birds 870 for the coyotes
Posted By: BrentD Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/18/20 02:17 PM
Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein


Every state, except Iowa.

Sorry, an 870 is a poor example of a beginners gun. Iíll grant you the specific ďyouthĒ models of the 870 and the Mossberg might be worse than no gun, but, figuring that out should be up to the non beginner that is the mentor.

After I adapted a 26Ē barrel to replace the 18Ē barrel that came on a Mossberg Youth 20 gauge, it became a superb starter gun. The only barrel available for the youth 20 gauge is 18Ē from Mossberg, so you have to procure a longer one from a 20 gauge model 500 and relocate the lug to make it work. The plastic stock has good dimensions, the two shot magazine helps keep it light, and it is trim and well balanced. With the long barrel, anyway.

My kid loved it, but, has moved on to 12s.

Best,
Ted


Whatever Ted. You got all the answers. Carry on.
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/18/20 02:27 PM
Originally Posted By: BrentD the Socialist PrOfessor
Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein


Every state, except Iowa.

Sorry, an 870 is a poor example of a beginners gun. Iíll grant you the specific ďyouthĒ models of the 870 and the Mossberg might be worse than no gun, but, figuring that out should be up to the non beginner that is the mentor.

After I adapted a 26Ē barrel to replace the 18Ē barrel that came on a Mossberg Youth 20 gauge, it became a superb starter gun. The only barrel available for the youth 20 gauge is 18Ē from Mossberg, so you have to procure a longer one from a 20 gauge model 500 and relocate the lug to make it work. The plastic stock has good dimensions, the two shot magazine helps keep it light, and it is trim and well balanced. With the long barrel, anyway.

My kid loved it, but, has moved on to 12s.

Best,
Ted


Whatever Ted. You got all the answers. Carry on.

brentD do all Socialist College prO'fessors walk around with a turd on their shoulder....

brentD and VerO'naka Stan don't have the only opinion.
Posted By: Ken Nelson Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/18/20 02:38 PM
IIRC Verona labeled guns were also supplied by Zoli and Bernadelli.
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/18/20 02:43 PM
Kinda sad to see his nephew get a piece of crap shotgun....
Posted By: BrentD Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/18/20 03:08 PM
Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
Originally Posted By: BrentD the Socialist PrOfessor
Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein


Every state, except Iowa.

Sorry, an 870 is a poor example of a beginners gun. Iíll grant you the specific ďyouthĒ models of the 870 and the Mossberg might be worse than no gun, but, figuring that out should be up to the non beginner that is the mentor.

After I adapted a 26Ē barrel to replace the 18Ē barrel that came on a Mossberg Youth 20 gauge, it became a superb starter gun. The only barrel available for the youth 20 gauge is 18Ē from Mossberg, so you have to procure a longer one from a 20 gauge model 500 and relocate the lug to make it work. The plastic stock has good dimensions, the two shot magazine helps keep it light, and it is trim and well balanced. With the long barrel, anyway.

My kid loved it, but, has moved on to 12s.

Best,
Ted


Whatever Ted. You got all the answers. Carry on.

brentD do all Socialist College prO'fessors walk around with a turd on their shoulder....

brentD and VerO'naka Stan don't have the only opinion.


You are a bit late this morning, Frank. A bit more than normal to drink last night I suppose.

I suppose this is the high point of your day and it's all down hill from here. Look out below!
Posted By: tut Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/18/20 03:47 PM
Late to the party, SKB model 500.
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/18/20 05:49 PM
Originally Posted By: CluelessjOe
Kinda sad to see his nephew get a piece of crap shotgun....


You think anybody here believes you're sad about anything that happens to anybody besides yOurself?

Certainly you don't think a p.o.c. shotgun would be able to finish a round of clays without breaking down. So, let's sweeten the pot a little on the offer I made you on another thread ........... if my gun breaks once, in any way, I forfeit the round, yOu win, and I announce on here that I lost because the Verona is a p.o.c..

Surely you won't turn down a "sure thing".

SRH
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/18/20 06:14 PM
Ok weather permitting I'm game...and I'll pay for the targets either way.
Posted By: lonesome roads Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/18/20 09:25 PM
Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
... I'm game...

Now if I can get Ted and canvasback on the ice.


___________________________
Here comes the (BOOM!)
Yaíll donít really want it now (BOOM!)
https://youtu.be/nqWZqQXk_Ao
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/18/20 09:32 PM
Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
Ok weather permitting I'm game...and I'll pay for the targets either way.


Sounds like a plan. Maybe the weather will cooperate. I'll contact you privately when I know when I'm heading t'wards Arkansas.

SRH
Posted By: Ted Schefelbein Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/19/20 12:23 AM
Originally Posted By: lonesome roads
Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
... I'm game...

Now if I can get Ted and canvasback on the ice.


___________________________
Here comes the (BOOM!)
Yaíll donít really want it now (BOOM!)
https://youtu.be/nqWZqQXk_Ao


Not likely. Why donít you plan on meeting me in Sonoma for a two day Super Bike School, this summer? Youíll have fun, I promise.

Best,
Ted
_________________________________________
Looking at my taped up taillights.
https://superbikeschool.com/
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/19/20 12:39 AM
The only way anybody would get me "on the ice" would be if it involved duck hunting.

SRH
Posted By: Bob Cash Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/19/20 03:29 AM
I'm worried about you Stan.
You and jOe become shooting buddies, after that you're fast friends.
Before you know it, we lose you to the dark side.
Please, please, for goodness sake, be careful!

Merry Christmas jOe.
Do you have a favorite brand of coal?
Posted By: Buzz Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/19/20 02:03 PM
God forbid being jOeís friend, eh Bob. Iíve tried telling you guys this internet thing is different than knowing one in person. Iíve been shooting with jOe and heís fun to be around...... And Stan, you best bring your A game in the 28 vs 12 competition. jOe ainít that bad of a shot. Heís pretty good with that 101.
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/19/20 02:24 PM
I mostly want to show that the Verona isn't junk, buzz. I've been beaten many times, and will be beaten many more if I keep shooting. I shoot to win, every time...... but if I don't, I learn.

I just hope everything comes together for me to go to Arkansas. Talked to my buddy there and he says there's not enough water right now, and COVID is running like wildfire in his area. He lost his Dad to it this summer. If it doesn't happen this season, maybe next.

His Dad was the first family member I hunted with. Our meeting was set up by his uncle, who was my original contact with the family. I grieved when I heard that "B" had died. Here he is on the dog ramp of a big blind in the L 'Anguille bottoms with my grandson. I was out in the boat picking up ducks when I snapped it. I'm so glad now that I took that pic. It's the only one I have of "B". He loved watching me shoot my SuperFox.



SRH
Posted By: nca225 Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/19/20 02:37 PM
Originally Posted By: buzz
God forbid being jOeís friend, eh Bob. Iíve tried telling you guys this internet thing is different than knowing one in person. Iíve been shooting with jOe and heís fun to be around......


Birds of a feather...
Posted By: keith Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/19/20 03:21 PM
Originally Posted By: nca225
Originally Posted By: buzz
God forbid being jOeís friend, eh Bob. Iíve tried telling you guys this internet thing is different than knowing one in person. Iíve been shooting with jOe and heís fun to be around......


Birds of a feather...


Do you think you could handle the recoil of a 20 gauge yet Sissy Chrissy? I seriously doubt it.
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/19/20 03:27 PM
Originally Posted By: Stan
I mostly want to show that the Verona isn't junk,



SRH



Win, loose or draw...I'll still be thinking a Verona shotgun is jUnk.

Nice pic...that guy kinda looks like a feller I used to shoot with every Wednesday.
Posted By: ed good Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/19/20 03:51 PM
funny, ah was thinkin the same thang...was his name tom?
Posted By: Ted Schefelbein Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/19/20 05:08 PM
Originally Posted By: keith
Originally Posted By: nca225
Originally Posted By: buzz
God forbid being jOeís friend, eh Bob. Iíve tried telling you guys this internet thing is different than knowing one in person. Iíve been shooting with jOe and heís fun to be around......


Birds of a feather...


Do you think you could handle the recoil of a 20 gauge yet Sissy Chrissy? I seriously doubt it.


Chris ďmayĒ be able to handle the recoil of a twenty. The fact he is an adult ďsuggestsĒ that this would be true. The evidence we have seen ďperhapsĒ suggest that.

A review of the facts leaves no doubt.

Best,
Ted
Posted By: lonesome roads Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 02:29 AM
Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein

Why donít you plan on meeting me in Sonoma for a two day Super Bike School, this summer?

Rather go to Italy.
https://www.bookmotorcycletours.com/all/d/europe/italy


Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein

Looking at my taped up taillights.

Born too slow I guess.
https://youtu.be/DoYQeomsuWk


____________________________
Moto GuzzióThe way the V was meant to be.
Mandello del Lario
https://www.motoguzzi.com/us_EN/tours/from-mandello-to-mandello/
Posted By: Ted Schefelbein Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 04:12 AM
Originally Posted By: lonesome roads
Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein

Why donít you plan on meeting me in Sonoma for a two day Super Bike School, this summer?

Rather go to Italy.
https://www.bookmotorcycletours.com/all/d/europe/italy


Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein

Looking at my taped up taillights.

Born too slow I guess.
https://youtu.be/DoYQeomsuWk


____________________________
Moto GuzzióThe way the V was meant to be.
Mandello del Lario
https://www.motoguzzi.com/us_EN/tours/from-mandello-to-mandello/


Italy. You canít handle Italy. Not with 62 sparkling horsepower, anyway.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wtpOtFIEkbs

Best,
Ted
______________________________________________
Born too slow. And, late.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sdps-igkv4A
Posted By: nca225 Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 02:50 PM
Originally Posted By: keith
Originally Posted By: nca225
Originally Posted By: buzz
God forbid being jOeís friend, eh Bob. Iíve tried telling you guys this internet thing is different than knowing one in person. Iíve been shooting with jOe and heís fun to be around......


Birds of a feather...


Do you think you could handle the recoil of a 20 gauge yet Sissy Chrissy? I seriously doubt it.


You and teddy might not be smart enough to see what I was getting to here, but I'll explain. You see people of like interests tend to gather.

homelessAsshole is a racist P.O.S. He hangs out with his racist buddy Buzz. No surprise there. And to help prove prove my point along comes nazi kieth and white supremacist teddy to join in.

Thanks for help making my point princess. The only thing that could of been more helpful enlightening this point was if thrifty had jumped in. Where's he been? He is usually the first to come to heel when you whistle.

BTW I see you got another thread shut down where you were getting backed into a corner. Nice to have helpful friends isn't it?
Posted By: Ted Schefelbein Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 03:15 PM
Originally Posted By: nca225
Originally Posted By: keith
Originally Posted By: nca225
Originally Posted By: buzz
God forbid being jOeís friend, eh Bob. Iíve tried telling you guys this internet thing is different than knowing one in person. Iíve been shooting with jOe and heís fun to be around......


Birds of a feather...


Do you think you could handle the recoil of a 20 gauge yet Sissy Chrissy? I seriously doubt it.


You and teddy might not be smart enough to see what I was getting to here, but I'll explain. You see people of like interests tend to gather.

homelessAsshole is a racist P.O.S. He hangs out with his racist buddy Buzz. No surprise there. And to help prove prove my point along comes nazi kieth and white supremacist teddy to join in.

Thanks for help making my point princess. The only thing that could of been more helpful enlightening this point was if thrifty had jumped in. Where's he been? He is usually the first to come to heel when you whistle.

BTW I see you got another thread shut down where you were getting backed into a corner. Nice to have helpful friends isn't it?


HAHAHA! What a buffoon!

Only a lefty dbag like you could make the jump from a guy pointing out the weasel words in a study on mask wearing, to white supremacy!

Your ďscience basedĒ study still sucks, dbag. Like you, it proves Nothing!


Best,
Ted
Posted By: Buzz Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 03:34 PM
Originally Posted By: nca225
Originally Posted By: keith
Originally Posted By: nca225
Originally Posted By: buzz
God forbid being jOeís friend, eh Bob. Iíve tried telling you guys this internet thing is different than knowing one in person. Iíve been shooting with jOe and heís fun to be around......


Birds of a feather...


Do you think you could handle the recoil of a 20 gauge yet Sissy Chrissy? I seriously doubt it.


You and teddy might not be smart enough to see what I was getting to here, but I'll explain. You see people of like interests tend to gather.

homelessAsshole is a racist P.O.S. He hangs out with his racist buddy Buzz. No surprise there. And to help prove prove my point along comes nazi kieth and white supremacist teddy to join in.

Thanks for help making my point princess. The only thing that could of been more helpful enlightening this point was if thrifty had jumped in. Where's he been? He is usually the first to come to heel when you whistle.

BTW I see you got another thread shut down where you were getting backed into a corner. Nice to have helpful friends isn't it?
Iím not a racist, nca225. Please show proof of your slanderous statement.
Posted By: nca225 Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 03:39 PM
Nah, show proof you aren't.

BTW, ever here of the maxim, you hang with the people you ride with?

Posted By: nca225 Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 03:43 PM
Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein

HAHAHA! What a buffoon!

Only a lefty dbag like you could make the jump from a guy pointing out the weasel words in a study on mask wearing, to white supremacy!

Your ďscience basedĒ study still sucks, dbag. Like you, it proves Nothing!


Best,
Ted



Yeah, teddy, it was that thread and only that thread that gave you away....
Posted By: John Roberts Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 03:48 PM
Why Dave continues to allow an atheistic, evil, sociopath like nca225 to constantly bombard this site with his white guilt driven, left wing loon lies is hard to understand. Sympathy for the Devil, I suppose...
JR
Posted By: Buzz Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 03:50 PM
Donít forget nca225, you are the guy who admitted to eating feces.....a just dessert for a socialist low life like you. Nah, I donít have to show you proof Iím not a racist. Thereís not one statement on here for the 10 years Iíve been a member showing any hint of racism. But, you on the other hand readily admit to coprophagy and now appear to be engaged in slander as well. I wouldnít expect anything else from a person of your character....
Posted By: nca225 Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 03:51 PM
Originally Posted By: John Roberts
Why Dave continues to allow an atheistic, evil, sociopath like nca225 to constantly bombard this site with his white guilt driven, left wing loon lies is hard to understand. Sympathy for the Devil, I suppose...
JR


grin laugh grin laugh grin laugh grin laugh
Posted By: nca225 Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 03:54 PM
Originally Posted By: buzz
Donít forget nca225, you are the guy who admitted to eating feces.....a just dessert for a socialist low life like you. Nah, I donít have to show you proof Iím not a racist. Thereís not one statement on here for the 10 years Iíve been a member showing any hint of racism. But, you on the other hand readily admit to coprophagy and now appear to be engaged in slander as well. I wouldnít expect anything else from a person of your character....


Truth is a defense to slander idiot.

Is this "war" getting a little too hot for you now?
Posted By: Buzz Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 03:57 PM
Go eat your lunch....
Posted By: nca225 Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 03:59 PM
I'm having soup today. The broth is Republican tears.
Posted By: arrieta2 Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 04:04 PM
$700 is a tough price point for something decent. Unless the CZ guns have got much better, I was not impress.


John Boyd
Posted By: Ted Schefelbein Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 04:05 PM
Originally Posted By: nca225
Originally Posted By: Ted Schefelbein

HAHAHA! What a buffoon!

Only a lefty dbag like you could make the jump from a guy pointing out the weasel words in a study on mask wearing, to white supremacy!

Your ďscience basedĒ study still sucks, dbag. Like you, it proves Nothing!


Best,
Ted



Yeah, teddy, it was that thread and only that thread that gave you away....


Prove it. As I have noted, most of what you say is fake.

Best,
Ted
Posted By: arrieta2 Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 04:06 PM
You guys who are bickering back on forth are no help to this man who was asking a question about a gun



John Boyd
Posted By: keith Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 05:28 PM
Originally Posted By: buzz
Donít forget nca225, you are the guy who admitted to eating feces.....a just dessert for a socialist low life like you. Nah, I donít have to show you proof Iím not a racist. Thereís not one statement on here for the 10 years Iíve been a member showing any hint of racism. But, you on the other hand readily admit to coprophagy and now appear to be engaged in slander as well. I wouldnít expect anything else from a person of your character....


The birth canal that delivered Sissy Chrissy nca225 into this world was a rectum. He was pinched off by an anus. So what else would you expect a steaming pile like him/her to eat?

Anyone who disagrees with this piece of crap, or proves that he/she is an idiot incapable of reading or understanding science, or anything else, is going to be called a racist, misogynist, or a Nazi. That is the last refuge of Libtards when they are losing any argument.
Posted By: BrentD Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 05:30 PM
Originally Posted By: nca225
I'm having soup today. The broth is Republican tears.


Watch out, it will be high in CV19 viruses.
Posted By: keith Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 05:59 PM
Originally Posted By: John Roberts
Why Dave continues to allow an atheistic, evil, sociopath like nca225 to constantly bombard this site with his white guilt driven, left wing loon lies is hard to understand. Sympathy for the Devil, I suppose...
JR


The answer to this question is simple John...

Just ask yourself how many of the F.A.G.'s (Fake Ass Gentlemen) who continually whine and cry about things like decorum, civility, going off topic into politics, etc. ever complain to Dave about Sissy Chrissy nca225.

Can you think of any Threads that were initiated by BrentD, the Preacher, Argo44, Mustela Frenata, old colonel Gladys Kravitz, or any of the other whiners, that demanded that Sissy Chrissy nca225 be suspended or banned? Can you recall any one of these Fake Ass Gentlemen suggesting that nobody should contribute money to the upkeep of the DoubleGunShop forum until Dave does something to stop him/her?

Can you even think of any severe complaints from these individuals who are constantly moaning about name calling, personal attacks, off topic crap, etc., or claims that he/she is driving people away from this site??? Can you think of any sustained critical responses to Sissy Chrissy nca225 from any of these phonies who pretend to be so concerned about civility and following the precious rules of conduct??? Can you think of any response from any of them that was anything more than a little slap on the hand? Can you think of any time that any of the Fake Ass Gentlemen here has complained about Sissy Chrissy posting personal attacks and Trolling anonymously, and demanded that he/she reveal his/her identity???

The answer to those questions is a big fat "NO!"

Can you think of just one positive contribution that Sissy Chrissy nca225 has made here over the years? Can you think of any useful information about doubles, dogs, reloading, gunsmithing, stock finishing, rust bluing, preserving our gun rights, etc. that has been provided by this piece of crap?

The answer is another big fat "NO!"

Before any threads get locked or deleted, it typically takes people complaining to Dave. Before anyone gets suspended, it typically takes sustained complaints to Dave. The biggest whiners and complainers on this site are perfectly content to permit Sissy Chrissy nca225 to continue Trolling.

And that's why 2021 is likely to bring no changes. People like BrentD, and the other Fake Ass Gentlemen, agree with Sissy Chrissy nca225, and will continue to cry like babies about me or jOe. But they will remain silent, or support a useless Liberal Left piece of crap who trashes and Trolls this site, and who supports the anti-gunners who threaten our Constitutional Right to own and shoot firearms.

I'll bet that some of the whiners and complainers will cry to Dave about my response, because they do not like to see the truth remain in print. I will be very surprised if this does not get deleted.

Can I hear an "Amen"?

P.S.- Did you know that Sissy Chrissy nca225 actually gets coaching and support from behind the scenes from Members here? That will come out in the future.
Posted By: craigd Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 06:10 PM
Originally Posted By: BrentD
Originally Posted By: nca225
I'm having soup today. The broth is Republican tears.


Watch out, it will be high in CV19 viruses.

Progress, some would say there'a a little science behind covid. Did we ever figure out if comfort ponies and coloring books have any therapeutic efficacy?
Posted By: nca225 Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 06:42 PM
Originally Posted By: BrentD
Originally Posted By: nca225
I'm having soup today. The broth is Republican tears.


Watch out, it will be high in CV19 viruses.


True, true. But the lipid exterior of the virus breaks down in boiling water. Just have to simmer the broth for a while.

Although I think that in the end after it breaks down it must reform into a sugar of some type. Their tears just seem to taste sweeter afterwards.
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 06:44 PM
Originally Posted By: nca225 who was born from an A hOle
Originally Posted By: BrentD the Socialist prO'fessor
Originally Posted By: nca225 who was born of an A hOle
I'm having soup today. The broth is Republican tears.


Watch out, it will be high in CV19 viruses.


True, true. But the lipid exterior of the virus breaks down in boiling water. Just have to simmer the broth for a while.

Although I think that in the end after it breaks down it must reform into a sugar of some type. Their tears just seem to taste sweeter afterwards.


It's a long way from the need for tears.
Posted By: nca225 Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 06:48 PM
Originally Posted By: keith

Anyone who disagrees with this piece of crap, or proves that he/she is an idiot incapable of reading or understanding science, or anything else, is going to be called a racist, misogynist, or a Nazi. That is the last refuge of Libtards when they are losing any argument.


Lest you, and others, forget, this is why you are a Nazi:

Originally Posted By: keith

I've told you all before that my Dad and uncles and cousins all used pumps and autoloaders, and my first shotgun was an extremely tightly choked Savage hammerless single shot model 220 20 gauge. My uncle had one N.R. Davis double that hung on the wall above his reloading bench, and he explained that he never used it because it was too heavy, and three different gunsmiths weren't able to cure its' habit of doubling.

But there was an old German gunsmith who had a shop and gun store a short two mile bike ride from my Dad's house, and I spent a lot of time there looking at his guns, mostly stuff that seemed remotely affordable in the used gun rack. He was an ex-Armorer in the Nazi army in WWII, and I often heard him extolling the virtues of certain guns to customers in his thick German accent. One day, after he saw me looking at a German double that he had tried to sell to a customer, he came over and exclaimed in broken English, "These guns... all junk! You want see nice guns? I show you nice guns!" He took me into his shop and I soon saw that this three story building was literally crammed with thousands of guns.

The ones he really wanted to show me were guns like you'd find in the NRA Museum... extremely ornate doubles, cape guns, drillings, and vierlings... stuff like I'd never seen. He had these museum pieces stacked like so much cordwood. He explained that part of his job as an Armorer in the Nazi army was to scrap weapons confiscated by the German Army when they rolled through European towns and villages. They posted notices that any civilians who didn't surrender their weapons would be executed if caught. He said he was to remove the wood stocks and burn them, and to crush the actions or receivers in a press so they couldn't be recaptured and used against the Germans. The scrap guns were shipped to steel mills to be melted down to produce new war materials. He told me, "Oh, I scrap a lot of very nice guns... but really nice ones, I stashed and after the war, I come to United States and my brother smuggle them here to me." It boggles the mind to think he was able to smuggle so many guns into the U.S. back then when people here stress out about importing one or two guns today. And he had to have some real guts and cunning to conceal this booty from his officers in the Nazi army.

Now, these pieces weren't anything like Dad's Model 870 or my Savage. These were works of the gunmaker's art with gorgeous highly figured wood, ornate full coverage engraving, gold and ivory inlays, intricate carving, etc. Guns like that leave a lasting impression on a kid, or a grown man. And my eyes were opened to see that all doubles weren't heavy bulky implements like that N.R. Davis with the doubling problem. And that is where my addiction began. Raise a kid on black guns and pumps, and that is the road they will likely travel. Show them quality, and history, and real craftsmanship, and they just might take a different path.



And hereís keithís post # 4#9##5

Originally Posted By: keith
Jim, the old German gunsmith who lived a couple miles from my Dad once showed me some vierlings and drillings that were engraved and inlaid like this. I used to frequent his gun shop and was looking at the used gun rack one day, and he came over and said in broken English, "These guns... all junk! You want see some nice guns, I show you nice guns." He took me into his house which was attached to the shop, and it was stuffed with guns of all kinds. Many were extremely ornate, heavily engraved, and inlaid with gold, silver, and ivory.

He explained to me that he was trained as an armorer for the German Army during WWII, and that part of his his job was to destroy guns that the Nazi's confiscated from towns and villages they conquered during the Blitzkrieg. They would issue a decree to the residents that they had 24 hours to turn in their guns, and if they were caught with guns after that, they were executed.

He told me he was supposed to remove the stocks from the guns, burn the wood, and put the breech section of the barreled action in a press, and crush it so it could not be recaptured and reused. The scrap was sent to steel mills to be converted to new steel for Nazi weapons. He said, "Oh, I crush a lot of very nice guns, but really nice ones, I keep and stash when I can. Then after the war, I come to United States, and my brother smuggle them over here to me." I have no idea how they accomplished this, but he didn't just have a lot of guns. He literally had tonnage. Not all of it was as nice as your photo, but I saw stuff that rivaled anything I saw in the NRA Museum, Harold's Club Casino gun collection in Reno, or anything else I've seen.

The last time I saw these guns was in 1991 during the first Gulf War. I went to his new house he built after he retired to see if he had some Mauser parts I needed. His wife remembered me and invited me in because he wasn't feeling well. The new house was also stuffed with guns... thousands of them, in every room. Many were getting that dry rust patina that comes from neglect. It would have taken a year just to clean them all. He and his wife were cheering for Saddam Hussein as CNN reported that Iraq was firing Scud missiles into Israel. They called them "Stud Missiles" in their broken English, and saying they hoped Saddam killed all of the Jews. Once a Nazi, always a Nazi, I guess.


Catís out of the bag now. In 1991 olíkeith, much, much older than 14 at the time and still well aware of the nature of the inventory, is right there in his buddyís home no less, not place of business, doing business with this guy again for some gun parts while he and his wife are cheering the deaths of Jews in Israel at the hands of Saddam Hussein. FWIW, seems like they were longtime friends if the wife let him in to see her ill husband.

I like guns as much as the next guy around here but Iíll be damned if I ever do business with a known Jew hating nazi war criminal selling stolen Jewish/European treasures.

Guess what folks, its kind of obvious that when keith says once a nazi, always a nazi he ainít talking about his buddy. Keith is a closeted white supremacist as shown by his frequent posts proffering a low opinion of minorities, or President Obama, and apparently, by his own admission, not above doing business with a guy who supported the state sanctioned killing of 6 million ethnic minorities in Europe, while the same guy was still cheering on the same policy albeit by a different regime.
Posted By: nca225 Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 06:50 PM
Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
Originally Posted By: nca225 who was born from an A hOle
Originally Posted By: BrentD the Socialist prO'fessor
Originally Posted By: nca225 who was born of an A hOle
I'm having soup today. The broth is Republican tears.


Watch out, it will be high in CV19 viruses.


True, true. But the lipid exterior of the virus breaks down in boiling water. Just have to simmer the broth for a while.

Although I think that in the end after it breaks down it must reform into a sugar of some type. Their tears just seem to taste sweeter afterwards.


It's a long way from the need for tears.


You need not worry. Yours are WAY to high in cholesterol to be safe for human consumption.
Posted By: nca225 Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 06:52 PM
Originally Posted By: keith

Before any threads get locked or deleted, it typically takes people complaining to Dave. Before anyone gets suspended, it typically takes sustained complaints to Dave. The biggest whiners and complainers on this site are perfectly content to permit Sissy Chrissy nca225 to continue Trolling.

And that's why 2021 is likely to bring no changes. People like BrentD, and the other Fake Ass Gentlemen, agree with Sissy Chrissy nca225, and will continue to cry like babies about me or jOe. But they will remain silent, or support a useless Liberal Left piece of crap who trashes and Trolls this site, and who supports the anti-gunners who threaten our Constitutional Right to own and shoot firearms.

I'll bet that some of the whiners and complainers will cry to Dave about my response, because they do not like to see the truth remain in print. I will be very surprised if this does not get deleted.

Can I hear an "Amen"?

P.S.- Did you know that Sissy Chrissy nca225 actually gets coaching and support from behind the scenes from Members here? That will come out in the future.


Your fooling no one princess. You just got Mr. Hinch's thread but down because you were scared of my last post on it:

Originally Posted By: keith

Answer: No, I would not just stand there and smile. So just let me know when you finally grow a pair, and finally decide to stop hiding. We all know that will never happen.


Well princess if your not going to just stand there and sheepishly smile, than what else would you possibly do? Are you brave enough to explain precisely what you would do if we ever met face to face?


Originally Posted By: keith
No need to compare numbers from your Libtard cherry picking fact-check source.


https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/factcheck/

Now your just adopting teddy's idle approach when you don't like the message the messenger brings. So lazy, so obvious you have nothing to support your position so you make sh!t up. So dumb.

Originally Posted By: keith
I'll bet there are no numbers from your source comparing the number of people beheaded by Jihaddists, or the number of square miles controlled by ISIS, or the number of times North Korea threatened to nuke Los Angeles, or the number of centrifuges operated by Iran, or the number of anti-gun executive orders signed, or the number of proposals to infringe upon the gun rights of law abiding citizens, or the number of miles of wall built to stop illegal aliens and control drug smuggling and human trafficking, or the number of Border Patrol Agents killed because of government endorsed international gun smuggling, or who did a better job of reducing energy costs, or who did a better job of getting NATO countries to pay their fair share, etc., etc.


If you are talking success by betraying our close ally the Kurds and letting the Turks slaughter an ally of ours who are the most effective ground force against ISISÖ You have set a low bar for foreign policy success!

https://apnews.com/article/3d9c19166a1c4283bb6533e30ec546dd

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/associated-press/

And as per usual more you just make it up when it comes to factsÖ

https://theconversation.com/who-really-defeated-the-islamic-state-obama-or-trump-148066

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/?s=the+conversation

All of the other misinformation you posted below that is just that. Your Laziness is fooling no one.

Originally Posted By: keith

And we all know that the only reason for the outcome of the election was massive fraud and cheating. Trump got nearly 10 million more votes in 2020 than (not then) he did in 2016. And we all know that Altzheimer Joe did not really get more votes in many black voting precincts than Obama did. You may believe that because you're (not your) incredibly stupid. But nobody with an ounce of brains believes it. If Biden ends up in the White House, he will have an asterisk next to his name like the steroid using cheaters who broke the home run record.


And he was soundly beat nationally by 5% points and 7 million more votes as well as 74 electoral votes by Joe Biden. And where is all this phantom fraud your talking about? Every single state election commission indicted that the results are sound. Why hasnít one Court in the nearly 50 law suits found fraud? Looks like millions wasted in for frivolous lawsuits that found nothing. Nothing, nada, zip. Keep churning in your toilet princess. I canít wait to see you stand idly by when President Joe Biden is sworn in as per the will of the of the people and a democratic election. The sound and taste of your tears is so enjoyable.

Originally Posted By: keith

We all know that there is a global pandemic in 2020 that has adversely affected employment numbers and the economy around the world. And we also know the economy would be much worse if we followed the path Liberal Democrats wanted to take, and shut everything down for a prolonged period. There was nothing similar to this in 2016. And if there had been, your worthless magic negro would have failed miserably... unless he maybe had some help getting things together, like he got when George Bush handed him the TARP blueprint he followed to crawl out of an economic collapse precipitated by Liberal Democrat policies that encouraged granting mortgage loans to people who could never be expected to repay them....


And this is exactly why drunpf is the colossal failure that he is and couldnít even, as an incumbent president get re-elected. A loser is what a loser does such as in drumpf. Completely devoid of any skill at leadership he just stuck his head in the sand and willfully ignored the seriousness of the pandemic saying it will one day miraculously go away, whether you drink bleach to fight it or not.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/t...tes/6006917002/

It is not hard to figure out that a pandemic will collapse an economy, but your dumb a$$ bronzed leader is just like you, to dumb to figure it out, to all our detriment.
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 06:54 PM
Originally Posted By: nca225 born of an A hOle

Lest you, and others, forget, this is why you are a Nazi


I'd say from reading your nasty racists posts on this forum I'd say you are closer to being a Nazi than anyone here.

Maybe the word Marxist fits you better.
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 06:58 PM
Originally Posted By: nca225 Spawned from an A hole crAwled out of the sewer

I've took another thread down the toilet


You sure did.
Posted By: Buzz Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 07:00 PM
Originally Posted By: nca225
I'm having soup today. The broth is Republican tears.
The cat is clearly out of the bag now; previously you readily admitted to coprophagy and now......you admit to the consumption of otherís bodily fluids. Go figure....you and your idiotic buddy, BrentD are something else, similar birds of the same feather since he pathologically gets his jollies from suffocating small animals to death.
Posted By: nca225 Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 07:05 PM
Yeah, but to his credit, at least he's not a racist POS who wants to overturn the democratically elected president by the will of the people and install a tyrant, like you.
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 07:10 PM
Originally Posted By: nca225 spaWned from an A hole and crawled from a sewer

Look guys I know I'm a Socialist Marxists pig but I cant help it


You nailed that one.
Posted By: keith Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 07:16 PM
Originally Posted By: nca225


Catís out of the bag now. In 1991 olíkeith, much, much older than 14 at the time and still well aware of the nature of the inventory, is right there in his buddyís home no less, not place of business, doing business with this guy again for some gun parts while he and his wife are cheering the deaths of Jews in Israel at the hands of Saddam Hussein. FWIW, seems like they were longtime friends if the wife let him in to see her ill husband.

I like guns as much as the next guy around here but Iíll be damned if I ever do business with a known Jew hating nazi war criminal selling stolen Jewish/European treasures.



Still resorting to lies in order to try to denigrate me, eh Sissy Chrissy nca225?

You know damn well that I freely admitted frequenting the gun shop of this gunsmith who was an ex-German soldier and armorer during WWII. Never once in all those visits did he make an anti-Semitic comment defending Nazism. Nor did I ever see him even attempt to sell any of the guns he stole from the Wermacht, and later had smuggled into the U.S after the War... when he emigrated and became a U.S. citizen.

When I visited his house in 1991, his wife remembered me, and invited me in. I was there looking to buy a bolt stop for a SIAMESE MAUSER that I was converting to .45-70

I was not there to purchase Nazi plunder, and he didn't have the part I needed, so I did no business with him that day, or at any time afterward. His apparent hatred of Jews was little different than Jesse Jackson's hatred for white people, when he admitted spitting into the food of white people he served when he worked as a waiter in a restaurant.

There were a lot of people in this country cheering for Saddam, or other Islamic terrorists and killers. You and guys like Larry Clown criticized anyone here who criticized these Muslim Jew haters.

I am not responsible for the hate of other people. You already knew all of these facts, I have posted them before. But you continue to post lies, because that is the only tool you have... because you are a brainless loser.
Posted By: nca225 Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 07:23 PM
That is some good backpedaling there princess but you cant dance away from your own words and acts!


Boy you sure do dance the jig when I remind people of what you said and what you are.

So to get back to what I think your going to do, should we ever meet as you would like, would be to just dance some more. But your level of alcohol consumption and tow left feet will betray you.
Posted By: keith Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 07:24 PM
I believe that Sissy Chrissy nca225is attempting to bury this post, much like a cat trying to cover up shit on a marble floor. Sissy Chrissy didn't even mention this, let alone respond to it. So here it is again...

Originally Posted By: John Roberts
Why Dave continues to allow an atheistic, evil, sociopath like nca225 to constantly bombard this site with his white guilt driven, left wing loon lies is hard to understand. Sympathy for the Devil, I suppose...
JR


The answer to this question is simple John...

Just ask yourself how many of the F.A.G.'s (Fake Ass Gentlemen) who continually whine and cry about things like decorum, civility, going off topic into politics, etc. ever complain to Dave about Sissy Chrissy nca225.

Can you think of any Threads that were initiated by BrentD, the Preacher, Argo44, Mustela Frenata, old colonel Gladys Kravitz, or any of the other whiners, that demanded that Sissy Chrissy nca225 be suspended or banned? Can you recall any one of these Fake Ass Gentlemen suggesting that nobody should contribute money to the upkeep of the DoubleGunShop forum until Dave does something to stop him/her?

Can you even think of any severe complaints from these individuals who are constantly moaning about name calling, personal attacks, off topic crap, etc., or claims that he/she is driving people away from this site??? Can you think of any sustained critical responses to Sissy Chrissy nca225 from any of these phonies who pretend to be so concerned about civility and following the precious rules of conduct??? Can you think of any response from any of them that was anything more than a little slap on the hand? Can you think of any time that any of the Fake Ass Gentlemen here has complained about Sissy Chrissy posting personal attacks and Trolling anonymously, and demanded that he/she reveal his/her identity???

The answer to those questions is a big fat "NO!"

Can you think of just one positive contribution that Sissy Chrissy nca225 has made here over the years? Can you think of any useful information about doubles, dogs, reloading, gunsmithing, stock finishing, rust bluing, preserving our gun rights, etc. that has been provided by this piece of crap?

The answer is another big fat "NO!"

Before any threads get locked or deleted, it typically takes people complaining to Dave. Before anyone gets suspended, it typically takes sustained complaints to Dave. The biggest whiners and complainers on this site are perfectly content to permit Sissy Chrissy nca225 to continue Trolling.

And that's why 2021 is likely to bring no changes. People like BrentD, and the other Fake Ass Gentlemen, agree with Sissy Chrissy nca225, and will continue to cry like babies about me or jOe. But they will remain silent, or support a useless Liberal Left piece of crap who trashes and Trolls this site, and who supports the anti-gunners who threaten our Constitutional Right to own and shoot firearms.

I'll bet that some of the whiners and complainers will cry to Dave about my response, because they do not like to see the truth remain in print. I will be very surprised if this does not get deleted.

Can I hear an "Amen"?

P.S.- Did you know that Sissy Chrissy nca225 actually gets coaching and support from behind the scenes from Members here? That will come out in the future.
Posted By: nca225 Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 07:26 PM
Whose hiding from what princess? To inebriated to realize I already responded to you?

From above:
Originally Posted By: nca225
Originally Posted By: keith

Before any threads get locked or deleted, it typically takes people complaining to Dave. Before anyone gets suspended, it typically takes sustained complaints to Dave. The biggest whiners and complainers on this site are perfectly content to permit Sissy Chrissy nca225 to continue Trolling.

And that's why 2021 is likely to bring no changes. People like BrentD, and the other Fake Ass Gentlemen, agree with Sissy Chrissy nca225, and will continue to cry like babies about me or jOe. But they will remain silent, or support a useless Liberal Left piece of crap who trashes and Trolls this site, and who supports the anti-gunners who threaten our Constitutional Right to own and shoot firearms.

I'll bet that some of the whiners and complainers will cry to Dave about my response, because they do not like to see the truth remain in print. I will be very surprised if this does not get deleted.

Can I hear an "Amen"?

P.S.- Did you know that Sissy Chrissy nca225 actually gets coaching and support from behind the scenes from Members here? That will come out in the future.


Your fooling no one princess. You just got Mr. Hinch's thread but down because you were scared of my last post on it:

Originally Posted By: keith

Answer: No, I would not just stand there and smile. So just let me know when you finally grow a pair, and finally decide to stop hiding. We all know that will never happen.


Well princess if your not going to just stand there and sheepishly smile, than what else would you possibly do? Are you brave enough to explain precisely what you would do if we ever met face to face?


Originally Posted By: keith
No need to compare numbers from your Libtard cherry picking fact-check source.


https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/factcheck/

Now your just adopting teddy's idle approach when you don't like the message the messenger brings. So lazy, so obvious you have nothing to support your position so you make sh!t up. So dumb.

Originally Posted By: keith
I'll bet there are no numbers from your source comparing the number of people beheaded by Jihaddists, or the number of square miles controlled by ISIS, or the number of times North Korea threatened to nuke Los Angeles, or the number of centrifuges operated by Iran, or the number of anti-gun executive orders signed, or the number of proposals to infringe upon the gun rights of law abiding citizens, or the number of miles of wall built to stop illegal aliens and control drug smuggling and human trafficking, or the number of Border Patrol Agents killed because of government endorsed international gun smuggling, or who did a better job of reducing energy costs, or who did a better job of getting NATO countries to pay their fair share, etc., etc.


If you are talking success by betraying our close ally the Kurds and letting the Turks slaughter an ally of ours who are the most effective ground force against ISISÖ You have set a low bar for foreign policy success!

https://apnews.com/article/3d9c19166a1c4283bb6533e30ec546dd

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/associated-press/

And as per usual more you just make it up when it comes to factsÖ

https://theconversation.com/who-really-defeated-the-islamic-state-obama-or-trump-148066

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/?s=the+conversation

All of the other misinformation you posted below that is just that. Your Laziness is fooling no one.

Originally Posted By: keith

And we all know that the only reason for the outcome of the election was massive fraud and cheating. Trump got nearly 10 million more votes in 2020 than (not then) he did in 2016. And we all know that Altzheimer Joe did not really get more votes in many black voting precincts than Obama did. You may believe that because you're (not your) incredibly stupid. But nobody with an ounce of brains believes it. If Biden ends up in the White House, he will have an asterisk next to his name like the steroid using cheaters who broke the home run record.


And he was soundly beat nationally by 5% points and 7 million more votes as well as 74 electoral votes by Joe Biden. And where is all this phantom fraud your talking about? Every single state election commission indicted that the results are sound. Why hasnít one Court in the nearly 50 law suits found fraud? Looks like millions wasted in for frivolous lawsuits that found nothing. Nothing, nada, zip. Keep churning in your toilet princess. I canít wait to see you stand idly by when President Joe Biden is sworn in as per the will of the of the people and a democratic election. The sound and taste of your tears is so enjoyable.

Originally Posted By: keith

We all know that there is a global pandemic in 2020 that has adversely affected employment numbers and the economy around the world. And we also know the economy would be much worse if we followed the path Liberal Democrats wanted to take, and shut everything down for a prolonged period. There was nothing similar to this in 2016. And if there had been, your worthless magic negro would have failed miserably... unless he maybe had some help getting things together, like he got when George Bush handed him the TARP blueprint he followed to crawl out of an economic collapse precipitated by Liberal Democrat policies that encouraged granting mortgage loans to people who could never be expected to repay them....


And this is exactly why drunpf is the colossal failure that he is and couldnít even, as an incumbent president get re-elected. A loser is what a loser does such as in drumpf. Completely devoid of any skill at leadership he just stuck his head in the sand and willfully ignored the seriousness of the pandemic saying it will one day miraculously go away, whether you drink bleach to fight it or not.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/t...tes/6006917002/

It is not hard to figure out that a pandemic will collapse an economy, but your dumb a$$ bronzed leader is just like you, to dumb to figure it out, to all our detriment.


Posted By: keith Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 07:33 PM
That was not a response to my reply to John Robert's question Sissy Chrissy nca225. That was a load of totally unrelated crap that was part of your attempt to bury my response about you, and all of the Fake Ass Gentlemen who tolerate, and even enable and encourage you.

To continue to lie, and make the claim that Trump did nothing to combat the Covid19 pandemic shows what a complete and dishonest idiot and Democrat sock-puppet you are. Trump is a major reason we got past a shortage of masks and other PPE caused by the Obama failure to restock and prepare after the SARS epidemic. Trump signed the emergency legislation that paid people to isolate and stay home from work, and supported businesses hurt by the pandemic. Trump is a major reason we had a hospital ship in New York City that went unused when the Democrat Governor Cuomo instead sent sick Covid19 patients to nursing homes to kill elderly and sick patients. Trump is responsible for fast-tracking the production of ventilators, and he is responsible for a vaccine being developed, approved, and distributed in record time.

Just what we should expect from an idiot and a gutless coward with the biggest set of internet muscles and keyboard courage imaginable.
Posted By: John Roberts Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 08:07 PM
Btw, when do you plan to take the Project Warp Speed Trump vaccine, galaxy nca225? Asking for all patriotic Americans.
JR
Posted By: nca225 Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 08:35 PM
Originally Posted By: keith


To continue to lie, and make the claim that Trump did nothing to combat the Covid19 pandemic shows what a complete and dishonest idiot and Democrat sock-puppet you are. Trump is a major reason we got past a shortage of masks and other PPE caused by the Obama failure to restock and prepare after the SARS epidemic. Trump signed the emergency legislation that paid people to isolate and stay home from work, and supported businesses hurt by the pandemic. Trump is a major reason we had a hospital ship in New York City that went unused when the Democrat Governor Cuomo instead sent sick Covid19 patients to nursing homes to kill elderly and sick patients. Trump is responsible for fast-tracking the production of ventilators, and he is responsible for a vaccine being developed, approved, and distributed in record time.


You forgot to add, among the list of drumphís many accomplished policies for Covid-19:

Abandon reason and go for herd immunity;
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/12/16/trump-appointee-demanded-herd-immunity-strategy-446408

Downplay it and lie to the American people:
https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200909/report-trump-downplayed-covid-threat

Inject disinfectants and blow sunshine up your a$$:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mattperez/2...sh=29d5e65f4088

And lets not worry because it is just going to miraculously go away:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/pol...ca0e_video.html

So why the Fu@k would we want to test for itÖ
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/20...wdown-look-bad/

So much more to come!
Posted By: nca225 Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 09:05 PM
Originally Posted By: John Roberts
Btw, when do you plan to take the Project Warp Speed Trump vaccine, galaxy nca225? Asking for all patriotic Americans.
JR

Well since I'm sure there isn't going to a miracle coming from a [censored] tale character, I'm placing my trust in science so I am welcoming of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines to fight off the drumpf disease. So the second its ready for me.

Are you going to get one? Remember they were created using fetal stem cells from an aborted baby.

https://www.mlive.com/coronavirus/2020/1...roblematic.html

Seems like that Bishop, as per usual with christians, is really backpedaling here. Lets see just how much of a Christian you really are John.
Posted By: nca225 Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 09:08 PM
Originally Posted By: keith

P.S.- Did you know that Sissy Chrissy nca225 actually gets coaching and support from behind the scenes from Members here? That will come out in the future.[/color]


Why wait princess, please regale us with your internet sleuthyness.
Posted By: keith Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 09:11 PM
Well John, it appears that Sissy Chrissy is lying to us again, and neither the Phizer or the Moderna Covid19 vaccines contain material from fetal stem cells.

https://ksltv.com/451339/are-fetal-cell-lines-used-in-the-covid-19-vaccine-ksl-investigates/

So it should be quite easy for those who oppose killing unborn babies to get an effective vaccine that does not utilize fetal stem cells.

EDIT: Had Sissy Chrissy nca225 been aborted, the resulting stem cells would be composed of shit, and unsuitable for anything except fertilizer!
Posted By: keith Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 09:11 PM
I believe that Sissy Chrissy nca225 is still attempting to bury this earlier post, much like a cat trying to cover up shit on a marble floor. Sissy Chrissy didn't even mention this, let alone respond to it. So here it is again...

Originally Posted By: John Roberts
Why Dave continues to allow an atheistic, evil, sociopath like nca225 to constantly bombard this site with his white guilt driven, left wing loon lies is hard to understand. Sympathy for the Devil, I suppose...
JR


The answer to this question is simple John...

Just ask yourself how many of the F.A.G.'s (Fake Ass Gentlemen) who continually whine and cry about things like decorum, civility, going off topic into politics, etc. ever complain to Dave about Sissy Chrissy nca225.

Can you think of any Threads that were initiated by BrentD, the Preacher, Argo44, Mustela Frenata, old colonel Gladys Kravitz, or any of the other whiners, that demanded that Sissy Chrissy nca225 be suspended or banned? Can you recall any one of these Fake Ass Gentlemen suggesting that nobody should contribute money to the upkeep of the DoubleGunShop forum until Dave does something to stop him/her?

Can you even think of any severe complaints from these individuals who are constantly moaning about name calling, personal attacks, off topic crap, etc., or claims that he/she is driving people away from this site??? Can you think of any sustained critical responses to Sissy Chrissy nca225 from any of these phonies who pretend to be so concerned about civility and following the precious rules of conduct??? Can you think of any response from any of them that was anything more than a little slap on the hand? Can you think of any time that any of the Fake Ass Gentlemen here has complained about Sissy Chrissy posting personal attacks and Trolling anonymously, and demanded that he/she reveal his/her identity???

The answer to those questions is a big fat "NO!"

Can you think of just one positive contribution that Sissy Chrissy nca225 has made here over the years? Can you think of any useful information about doubles, dogs, reloading, gunsmithing, stock finishing, rust bluing, preserving our gun rights, etc. that has been provided by this piece of crap?

The answer is another big fat "NO!"

Before any threads get locked or deleted, it typically takes people complaining to Dave. Before anyone gets suspended, it typically takes sustained complaints to Dave. The biggest whiners and complainers on this site are perfectly content to permit Sissy Chrissy nca225 to continue Trolling.

And that's why 2021 is likely to bring no changes. People like BrentD, and the other Fake Ass Gentlemen, agree with Sissy Chrissy nca225, and will continue to cry like babies about me or jOe. But they will remain silent, or support a useless Liberal Left piece of crap who trashes and Trolls this site, and who supports the anti-gunners who threaten our Constitutional Right to own and shoot firearms.

I'll bet that some of the whiners and complainers will cry to Dave about my response, because they do not like to see the truth remain in print. I will be very surprised if this does not get deleted.

Can I hear an "Amen"?

P.S.- Did you know that Sissy Chrissy nca225 actually gets coaching and support from behind the scenes from Members here? That will come out in the future.
Posted By: nca225 Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 09:20 PM
Originally Posted By: keith
Well John, it appears that Sissy Chrissy is lying to us again, and neither the Phizer or the Moderna Covid19 vaccines contain material from fetal stem cells.

https://ksltv.com/451339/are-fetal-cell-lines-used-in-the-covid-19-vaccine-ksl-investigates/

So it should be quite easy for those who oppose killing unborn babies to get an effective vaccine that does not utilize fetal stem cells.


WRONG! I didn't say the vaccinations were made from it, but rather created the vaccine using them as indicated below:

https://www.mlive.com/coronavirus/2020/1...roblematic.html

"Neither of these vaccines have used cell lines originating in tissue taken from aborted babies in their design, development, and production. However, both the Pfizer and the Moderna vaccine did use such a cell line in the confirmatory testing. This connection to the abortion is very remote, however, and it is important to keep in mind that there are varying levels of responsibility. Greater moral responsibility lies with the researchers than with those who receive the vaccine,Ē the bishops wrote."

Christian backpedaling at its best. Admitting that they used cells from an aborted fetus during confirmatory testing is using aborted baby cells in the creation of the vaccine.


Posted By: nca225 Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 09:22 PM
Originally Posted By: keith
I believe that Sissy Chrissy nca225 is still attempting to bury this earlier post, much like a cat trying to cover up shit on a marble floor. Sissy Chrissy didn't even mention this, let alone respond to it. So here it is again...

Originally Posted By: John Roberts
Why Dave continues to allow an atheistic, evil, sociopath like nca225 to constantly bombard this site with his white guilt driven, left wing loon lies is hard to understand. Sympathy for the Devil, I suppose...
JR


The answer to this question is simple John...

Just ask yourself how many of the F.A.G.'s (Fake Ass Gentlemen) who continually whine and cry about things like decorum, civility, going off topic into politics, etc. ever complain to Dave about Sissy Chrissy nca225.

Can you think of any Threads that were initiated by BrentD, the Preacher, Argo44, Mustela Frenata, old colonel Gladys Kravitz, or any of the other whiners, that demanded that Sissy Chrissy nca225 be suspended or banned? Can you recall any one of these Fake Ass Gentlemen suggesting that nobody should contribute money to the upkeep of the DoubleGunShop forum until Dave does something to stop him/her?

Can you even think of any severe complaints from these individuals who are constantly moaning about name calling, personal attacks, off topic crap, etc., or claims that he/she is driving people away from this site??? Can you think of any sustained critical responses to Sissy Chrissy nca225 from any of these phonies who pretend to be so concerned about civility and following the precious rules of conduct??? Can you think of any response from any of them that was anything more than a little slap on the hand? Can you think of any time that any of the Fake Ass Gentlemen here has complained about Sissy Chrissy posting personal attacks and Trolling anonymously, and demanded that he/she reveal his/her identity???

The answer to those questions is a big fat "NO!"

Can you think of just one positive contribution that Sissy Chrissy nca225 has made here over the years? Can you think of any useful information about doubles, dogs, reloading, gunsmithing, stock finishing, rust bluing, preserving our gun rights, etc. that has been provided by this piece of crap?

The answer is another big fat "NO!"

Before any threads get locked or deleted, it typically takes people complaining to Dave. Before anyone gets suspended, it typically takes sustained complaints to Dave. The biggest whiners and complainers on this site are perfectly content to permit Sissy Chrissy nca225 to continue Trolling.

And that's why 2021 is likely to bring no changes. People like BrentD, and the other Fake Ass Gentlemen, agree with Sissy Chrissy nca225, and will continue to cry like babies about me or jOe. But they will remain silent, or support a useless Liberal Left piece of crap who trashes and Trolls this site, and who supports the anti-gunners who threaten our Constitutional Right to own and shoot firearms.

I'll bet that some of the whiners and complainers will cry to Dave about my response, because they do not like to see the truth remain in print. I will be very surprised if this does not get deleted.

Can I hear an "Amen"?

P.S.- Did you know that Sissy Chrissy nca225 actually gets coaching and support from behind the scenes from Members here? That will come out in the future.


It looks like SDH-MT's approach is not lost on you.
Posted By: keith Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 10:45 PM
First, I'd have to agree with the Bishops who stated that the greater moral responsibility lies with the researchers who utilized that form of confirmatory testing. Then I'd note that it is apparent that you do not understand the difference between creation of the vaccine, and different methods of testing the results.

Because of pro-death, pro baby-killing, anti-gun Democrats, some of our tax dollars are used to fund Planned Parenthood and thus related directly to the abortion industry. That does not mean that we are morally responsible... unless we actually support it and choose to allow it to stand. That is what you and rocky mtn bill and other Libtards do when you vote for anti-gunners. You directly support infringing upon the 2nd Amendment. I don't expect we will see you or Billy questioning Altzheimer Joe going to a Catholic Church and receiving Communion, when he votes for and helps to fund abortion.



Originally Posted By: nca225

It looks like SDH-MT's approach is not lost on you.


Wrong again idiot. Unlike SDH-MT, I did not call you on Feb. 2, 2019 at 3:07 PM from (406) 222-9377 in Livingston, Montana in an obvious drunken stupor. I did not then proceed to scream vulgar physical threats, and then after 2 min. and 18 seconds, hang up in fear with a quivering cracking voice. Steven didn't like me repeating the details of his cowardly phone threat, so he later responded with his tall tale about hiring a private investigator to sit across the road from my house. He then provided a false narrative about my residence, my living arrangements, my employment history, my physical appearance, and even the truck I drive.

In other words, he is a lot like you Sissy Chrissy nca225. Cut from the same cloth. Birds of a feather, as you said earlier.
Posted By: nca225 Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 10:47 PM
Originally Posted By: keith
First, I'd have to agree with the Bishops who stated that the greater moral responsibility lies with the researchers who utilized that form of confirmatory testing. Then I'd note that it is apparent that you do not understand the difference between creation of the vaccine, and different methods of testing the results.


Splitting some fine hairs there princess. I thought true christians didn't do that.
Posted By: arrieta2 Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 10:54 PM
Maybe it's time to re-read what Dave has at the top of the forum page


Feel free to use these forums to discuss your doubleguns, double rifles, drillings, combination-guns and related material. The rules are really simple: Stay on the subject matter, keep it clean, and contribute answers when you can!
Posted By: keith Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 10:57 PM
Originally Posted By: nca225


Splitting some fine hairs there princess. I thought true christians didn't do that.


Not at all. As I said, some of my tax dollars are used to fund abortion. I do not support that, nor do I support the pro-abortion, anti-gun Democrats who succeeded in passing that tax legislation. I also think it would be great if you were flushed down the toilet as a late term abortion on a steaming dishonest pile of shit.

But I still think all of this is an attempt by you to frantically cover up the following facts. So I will again repeat my reply to John Roberts question about why Dave puts up with an ignorant piece of shit who contributes nothing but lies and Trolling.



Originally Posted By: John Roberts
Why Dave continues to allow an atheistic, evil, sociopath like nca225 to constantly bombard this site with his white guilt driven, left wing loon lies is hard to understand. Sympathy for the Devil, I suppose...
JR


The answer to this question is simple John...

Just ask yourself how many of the F.A.G.'s (Fake Ass Gentlemen) who continually whine and cry about things like decorum, civility, going off topic into politics, etc. ever complain to Dave about Sissy Chrissy nca225.

Can you think of any Threads that were initiated by BrentD, the Preacher, Argo44, Mustela Frenata, old colonel Gladys Kravitz, or any of the other whiners, that demanded that Sissy Chrissy nca225 be suspended or banned? Can you recall any one of these Fake Ass Gentlemen suggesting that nobody should contribute money to the upkeep of the DoubleGunShop forum until Dave does something to stop him/her?

Can you even think of any severe complaints from these individuals who are constantly moaning about name calling, personal attacks, off topic crap, etc., or claims that he/she is driving people away from this site??? Can you think of any sustained critical responses to Sissy Chrissy nca225 from any of these phonies who pretend to be so concerned about civility and following the precious rules of conduct??? Can you think of any response from any of them that was anything more than a little slap on the hand? Can you think of any time that any of the Fake Ass Gentlemen here has complained about Sissy Chrissy posting personal attacks and Trolling anonymously, and demanded that he/she reveal his/her identity???

The answer to those questions is a big fat "NO!"

Can you think of just one positive contribution that Sissy Chrissy nca225 has made here over the years? Can you think of any useful information about doubles, dogs, reloading, gunsmithing, stock finishing, rust bluing, preserving our gun rights, etc. that has been provided by this piece of crap?

The answer is another big fat "NO!"

Before any threads get locked or deleted, it typically takes people complaining to Dave. Before anyone gets suspended, it typically takes sustained complaints to Dave. The biggest whiners and complainers on this site are perfectly content to permit Sissy Chrissy nca225 to continue Trolling.

And that's why 2021 is likely to bring no changes. People like BrentD, and the other Fake Ass Gentlemen, agree with Sissy Chrissy nca225, and will continue to cry like babies about me or jOe. But they will remain silent, or support a useless Liberal Left piece of crap who trashes and Trolls this site, and who supports the anti-gunners who threaten our Constitutional Right to own and shoot firearms.

I'll bet that some of the whiners and complainers will cry to Dave about my response, because they do not like to see the truth remain in print. I will be very surprised if this does not get deleted.

Can I hear an "Amen"?

P.S.- Did you know that Sissy Chrissy nca225 actually gets coaching and support from behind the scenes from Members here? That will come out in the future.
Posted By: lonesome roads Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/20/20 11:29 PM
Originally Posted By: arrieta2
Maybe it's time to re-read what Dave has at the top of the forum page


Feel free to use these forums to discuss your doubleguns, double rifles, drillings, combination-guns and related material. The rules are really simple: Stay on the subject matter, keep it clean, and contribute answers when you can!

Remember the good old day when it was just Ted and I yapping about motorcycles?
https://youtu.be/_8Mppmn9A7U


___________________________
That was the day my friend
https://youtu.be/Ry5GHJifMWY
Posted By: BrentD Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/21/20 12:18 AM
Originally Posted By: arrieta2
Maybe it's time to re-read what Dave has at the top of the forum page


Feel free to use these forums to discuss your doubleguns, double rifles, drillings, combination-guns and related material. The rules are really simple: Stay on the subject matter, keep it clean, and contribute answers when you can!


yeah, what he said.
Posted By: ed good Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/21/20 12:28 AM
holy cristo, will you mal contents jes go away an stop trashin treads on dis fine forum...
Posted By: ed good Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/21/20 12:31 AM
anyway, jes got in a 20 ga 870 express, on consignment...dont take in pump gons usually, as they are only worth a few hundred bucks, an as such aint worth my time commission wise...however;;;
Posted By: ed good Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/21/20 12:33 AM
dis one is about 30 years old an is like new...so i decided to test fire it on the skeet range...well;;;
Posted By: ed good Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/21/20 12:38 AM
dis thang is slicker dan owl shit on ah ducks back!

ah mean, de rem model 17 has awl ways been my gold standard fur pump gon slickness...but dis one got dat beat by ah long shot...

an shuckin shells is almost effort less...

novice shooter outta give an express ah try befo goin wid some cheap o/u...
Posted By: Ted Schefelbein Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/21/20 12:42 AM
Originally Posted By: lonesome roads
Originally Posted By: arrieta2
Maybe it's time to re-read what Dave has at the top of the forum page


Feel free to use these forums to discuss your doubleguns, double rifles, drillings, combination-guns and related material. The rules are really simple: Stay on the subject matter, keep it clean, and contribute answers when you can!

Remember the good old day when it was just Ted and I yapping about motorcycles?
https://youtu.be/_8Mppmn9A7U


___________________________
That was the day my friend
https://youtu.be/Ry5GHJifMWY


You are a white supremacist if you want more than, what, 85 horse?

Looking at the 2021 Guzi, all I could think was, it ainít 1978 anymore.

4 decades of running an FJ is about 1+ decade short.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P232G_EjrpQ&t=94s

Best,
Ted

_____________________________________________
That was then, this is now.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9YrWsmlJSiw
Posted By: ed good Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/21/20 12:47 AM
ted, we don care watt you tink bout 2021 vs 1978...

lets talk shotguns...
Posted By: Ted Schefelbein Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/21/20 02:16 AM
Originally Posted By: ed good
ted, we don care watt you tink bout 2021 vs 1978...

lets talk shotguns...


ed, the subject is white supremacy, and motorcycles. If you can work hockey into both of those, you will be welcome to participate.

Best,
Ted

______________________________________
Otherwise, butt out.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RZH2bmbUTl4
Posted By: nca225 Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/21/20 03:40 AM
Well in that case ted, here is some nostalgia for you.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...Blitzkrieg.html
Posted By: keith Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/21/20 03:52 AM
Sissy Chrissy nca225, are you white?

If so, it would be very difficult to make any argument that whites are superior to blacks or any other race.

I don't believe that you are white though. I'm quite sure you are brown. We just don't see white things come out of a rectum. By the way, it was very brave how you quickly ran away when Dave was logged in. A real born coward!
Posted By: Ted Schefelbein Re: good starter over under in 20? - 12/21/20 04:03 AM
Originally Posted By: nca225
Well in that case ted, here is some nostalgia for you.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...Blitzkrieg.html


Nostalgia and history are two different things.

Best,
Ted

_________________________________________
Besides, there are Frenchmen in those photos, and they hate everybody.
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