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Posted By: CJO SS Greener article. - 12/06/20 01:37 PM
Not sure if anyone has seen part one of this article...but if you have here is part two.

https://shootingsportsman.com/greener-restoration-2/
Posted By: Drew Hause Re: SS Greener article. - 12/06/20 01:44 PM
Well done Claudio & Vic; and a nice image of that incredible gun.

Part I
https://shootingsportsman.com/greener-restoration-1/

Still looking for 'DCE' and Dave Elliott's middle name frown
Posted By: gunsaholic Re: SS Greener article. - 12/06/20 02:41 PM
Fantastic!
Posted By: docbill Re: SS Greener article. - 12/06/20 04:13 PM
Wow, what work. A master craftsman !!!!
Posted By: canvasback Re: SS Greener article. - 12/06/20 04:16 PM
I've been lucky enough to hold and examine that gun. I can assure readers.....pics do not do it justice. And Claudio's work.....way beyond good!
Posted By: canvasback Re: SS Greener article. - 12/06/20 04:16 PM
oops, duplicate.
Posted By: Hal Re: SS Greener article. - 12/06/20 06:29 PM
Amazing talent. Both Claudio's and the old guys that 'filed up' and heat treated the original without the use of power tools and with files they likely made themselves!
Posted By: Steve Nash Re: SS Greener article. - 12/06/20 08:28 PM
Wonderful work!
Posted By: HomelessjOe Re: SS Greener article. - 12/07/20 02:10 PM
Beautiful gun....no doubt best work.
Posted By: keith Re: SS Greener article. - 12/07/20 02:26 PM
Wow! Thanks for sharing yet another example of your outstanding gunsmithing.
Posted By: David Williamson Re: SS Greener article. - 12/07/20 02:37 PM
Claudio, as usual another great job. Thanks to you and Vic for sharing.
Posted By: Konor3inch Re: SS Greener article. - 12/07/20 02:46 PM
The original smiths would be delighted to see the results of your work ,thanks for posting
Posted By: Hammergun Re: SS Greener article. - 12/07/20 10:57 PM
Nice work and beautiful gun! I inherited a g-gun and thank goodness everything still works properly. If it didn't, I probably couldn't afford the repair job.
Posted By: mc Re: SS Greener article. - 12/08/20 12:49 AM
Len bull made and replaced the tumbler in one of the g guns he roughed it out on a band saw and filed it up he said it was a tough repair.
Posted By: bushveld Re: SS Greener article. - 12/08/20 02:54 AM
The Greener, the work and the Deckel are magnificent.

Stephen
Posted By: battle Re: SS Greener article. - 12/08/20 03:12 AM
Very nice Claudio
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: SS Greener article. - 12/08/20 12:30 PM
Thanks for allowing us to read that, and for the pics and video. Very nice gun, and superb workmanship on your part, Claudio.

Just wondering ......... is there a name for the circular flat areas on the outer part of the fences? I've seen centerfire doubles with protrusions that appear to be a vestige of features from the percussion m/l era doubles, but the shape of those are new to me. Are there blow out plugs in them, hidden in the engraving?

SRH
Posted By: Konor3inch Re: SS Greener article. - 12/08/20 04:26 PM
Originally Posted By: Stan
Thanks for allowing us to read that, and for the pics and video. Very nice gun, and superb workmanship on your part, Claudio.

Just wondering ......... is there a name for the circular flat areas on the outer part of the fences? I've seen centerfire doubles with protrusions that appear to be a vestige of features from the percussion m/l era doubles, but the shape of those are new to me. Are there blow out plugs in them, hidden in the engraving?

SRH


Stan I think the term for those type of fences is serpentine fence or Gardner fences the latter used as Gardner was the surname of the craftsman employed by Greener who carved those fences. I think the circular flat area marks the position of the cross-bolt.
Posted By: CptCurl Re: SS Greener article. - 12/09/20 03:33 PM
Fantastic work! You have done a great service to the gun-loving community by saving that masterpiece.

I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder. To my eye, the Greener Facile Princeps is by far the most beautiful and graceful boxlock.

The Westley Richards is the classic boxlock from its original inventor, and should be admired for that.

The Webley A&W-C (screwgrip) is a work horse and should be admired for its practical design.

But neither is the peer of Greener's Facile Princeps for grace and beauty. Its inward curving cocking levers allow for the nicely rounded front section of the action. This, in turn, allows for the most splendid forearm of any boxlock.

I'm proud to say I own two Facile Princeps rifles: a .450/400 3-1/4" NE, and a .400/360 2-3/4" NE.

Just this past weekend I snagged a bad-assed 10b ball gun, another Facile Princeps, gleaned from the Rock Island auction (Lot 1357, Dec. 5, 2020). I'm anxious to get it in hand. It should mark the end of the tiger problem I've been having in the back yard! Now I just need an elephant and howdah.

Curl
Posted By: canvasback Re: SS Greener article. - 12/18/20 05:44 PM
This is posted on behalf of CJO for Stan.


Posted By: CJO Re: SS Greener article. - 12/18/20 06:14 PM
Thank you James... not sure whatís going on but I seem to be having image posting issues on this site at the moment.

Stan... that page is from Vicís book Gun Craft and those serpentine fences where most likely carved by ď Mr CammĒ

All best

CJ
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: SS Greener article. - 12/18/20 10:33 PM
Thanks Konor, James and Claudio for that detailed, and interesting, explanation.

SRH
Posted By: BrentD Re: SS Greener article. - 12/19/20 02:31 AM
I wonder if Mr. Camm was in charge of one of Greener's workshops. The letter for my Greener describes the names (but not first names) of all the men that worked on my gun and its dates for starting and finishing the gun. In my case, the metal work was all done in the Miller shop (action, locks, barrels).

While it did not say so explicitly, the letter implied that the Greener operation was a number of workshops that ran in parallel. I could easily imagine that Mr. Camm's workshop was designated for the "best" guns.
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: SS Greener article. - 12/19/20 03:30 AM
Konor mentioned that the circular flat areas I asked about "marks the position of the crossbolt". I've no doubt that is true, as there is a hole in the rib extension for a crossbolt. But, when I watch the video closely, at the very start of it, the gun is open and is shown from both sides. There is no crossbolt protruding from the side of the little circular area with the gun open, that I can see. I must assume, then, that the crossbolt is hidden completely inside the action.(?)

I've not had the pleasure of handling, or even being around, many best guns. On all the crossbolt guns I've seen or owned the bolt protrudes from the side of the action when the gun is open. Is the hidden crossbolt a Greener trait, or more a trait of best crossbolted guns in general?

SRH
Posted By: BrentD Re: SS Greener article. - 12/19/20 03:43 AM
all the Greeners I have seen and handled have cross bolts and all are external. I'm not sure what's behind or under those fences, but they sure are unique.
Posted By: CJO Re: SS Greener article. - 12/19/20 03:56 AM
Stan, the cross bolt is mostly hidden on the higher end guns mainly for aesthetic purposes, it takes a lot of work to make it ďhiddenĒ

On that gun there is a plug on the left side of the fence where the contour makes a circle... look sort of like a couple of cropped horns on a bull, the plug is in the centre of the left circle and it only visible under magnification.
It is superbly executed

Once I figure out my picture posting issue Iíll take a couple of close ups

CJ
Posted By: canvasback Re: SS Greener article. - 12/19/20 04:10 AM
I looked at a 16 Gauge gun from Ernst Steigleder a couple years ago that had very similar protrusions carved into the breech balls. In my memory they seemed even more pronounced then on the Greener. I didnít find them attractive but I really liked the 31Ē barrels. Sadly could not work out a deal.
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: SS Greener article. - 12/19/20 12:42 PM
Thank you, Claudio. I zoomed in on those circular "flats" and could see no sign of a fitted crossbolt. But, knowing how well the best gunmakers could fit metal to metal I wondered if there was a possibility of it being there, until I looked back at the video, stopped it several times, and realized ........No, it wasn't there.

I can only imagine the extra work involved to make a hidden crossbolt. I'm very impressed with that gun's workmanship .....by Greener and by you.

SRH
Posted By: graybeardtmm3 Re: SS Greener article. - 12/19/20 09:44 PM
i have always understood that the self-acting ejector greener was a particularly challenging mechanism...now i have a better understanding of that.

what a magnificent gun, and CJO's work honors the standards to which it was built.

merry christmas to all!
tom
Posted By: CJO Re: SS Greener article. - 12/27/20 08:19 PM
Thank you sir... your compliment is much appreciated

On another note... I think Iíve been able to sort out my image posting issues
So Iíll be able to post more of the pictures that for publishing restrictions could not be shown on the article
Stan...here is one that shows the well hidden cross bolt plug
The image has been magnified several times

CJ


Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: SS Greener article. - 12/27/20 10:06 PM
Thanks, Claudio. I can see it now.
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