I'm interested in the pros and cons of the different types of forend latches. Far and away the Deeley & Edge latch is what we see most, especially on American guns and some Italian guns. It is strong, it looks nice to the eye, and it gives a canvas for some additional engraving on a gun. It was the choice of Parker, Fox on most of their graded guns, and numerous others. But, of roughly forty S X Ss I own, if I open one of them and feel any movement in the forend when the breech "bottoms out" open, it has this style latch. Once fitted perfectly it will stay that way, and tight, for a long time. But, wear will eventually loosen the fit and cause looseness, IMO.

The Anson "push-rod" type fastener, preferred by much of the London trade, is an improvement in the way the coil spring holds it tight, and compensates for wear at the knuckle. But, that button sticking out dead in front of the wood is a catch-all for twigs, grass and leaves. I have several guns with this style latch, but have never warmed up to it completely.

Then, we have the simple snap-on forend mechanisms, of different styles by different makers. My favorite of these is the one on some Sterlingworth Fox guns and graded small bores. It was developed by Kremer, and Ansley Fox himself, according to patents, but is simply called the Kremer latch. Strong, self compensating for wear at the knuckle, it would seem to be the best answer to the "problem" of holding the forend iron tight against the knuckle without extensive fitting, and re-fitting. Yet, as far as aesthetics goes, it adds nothing. On the ejector Fox guns using the Kremer, and other spring loaded design latch, an escutcheon was inletted and fastened to the f/e iron to add strength to the whole affair. This small round escutcheon certainly does strengthen the attachment to the wood, but it also adds a touch of good looks to the otherwise empty underside of the forend wood which, other than the checkering, has nothing to "break up" the expanse.

I'm interested in opinions about mechanical advantages/disavantages, aesthetics, and actual usage of the different types in the field. My feelings? I like the appearance of the Deeley & Edge latch, but not the way it wears out of adjustment. I like the wear compensating of the Anson push-rod type, but not it's protrusion in front, in use. I really like the Kremer spring loaded latch, it's lasting strength, it's simplicity and wear compensating feature. But, it leaves the forend a bit plain as far as looks goes, unless an escutcheon is added.

Have at it. Feel free to correct any errors I may have made also, as I just typed this off the top of my head without much reference to recorded literature.

SRH

I much prefer traditional cross keys and escutcheons to any of those, but if I had to pick it would be Deeley/Edge

I had a ejector SW with the Kremer latch with the escutcheon. Worked very well.....I just couldn't get past the horrible esthetics of the mid 1930's Savage era forend. Whoa it was bad!

In general I think I prefer the Anson push button over the Deely latch. My SxS are about 50/50 divided between those style. Maybe it's the style of hunting I do but I've never noticed the push button becoming a cow-catcher for grass and twigs.

Stan,
I've found that both work equally well for me. The engraving on the Deely looks nice, as does the push button escutcheon engraving.
Karl

Don't forget the Rigby latch. Rigby Latch It is used on a lot of double rifles and a few shotguns. It is strong, but does have metal on the bottom of the fore end.

All the latches work fairly well.

Ken

Rigby style rotary levers work and look beautiful. My favorite.

Also a huge fan of W&C Scott patent 615 of 1876, forend tip lever type catch is also very elegant and beautiful plus it works great.

Simplicity......the Lancaster “sugar tongs” forend fastner. Simple and effective.

I much prefer the Deeley latch.

I had a gun with an Anson latch shed the forend once while shooting.

The Sterlingworth 'latch' can be a liability in the woods. The necessary rubber band rather detracts from the aesthetics.

I forgot to mention the L C Smith rotary latch. I only have one, on my 32" barreled 16 ga., but don't know enough about it to comment on it's strengths or weaknesses.

SRH

I like the L.C. Smith style and the M21-- FWIW RWTF

By far the bulk of the Fox ejector doubles with snap-on/-off forearms have the F.T. Russell latch, Patent No. 1,029,229 granted June 11, 1912. The J.C. Kremer & A.H. Fox latch Patent No. 1,029,374 was also granted June 11, 1912. A.H. Fox Gun Co. had been using The Kremer & Fox latch on their extractor Sterlingworth and the F.T. Russell latch on the Sterlingworth Ejectors for about a year and a half when the patents was granted. Parker Bros. brought out their Trojan in 1912 with a latch very similar to the Kremer & Fox latch. Probably four decades ago now Babe Delgrego showed me some letters between A.H. Fox Gun Co. and Parker Bros. about this. That was before I was collecting details on this minutia and I don't know what the outcome was, but the A.H. Fox Gun Co. quit using the Kremer & Fox latch and went to using the F.T. Russell Latch on both extractor and ejector guns.

On April 24, 1879, E. Remington & Sons was granted the U.S. license to use the Deeley & Edge latch. All guns with a lever in the forearm are not a Deeley & Edge latch. Parker Bros. got around the license to E. Remington & Sons by having the lever in their forearms actuate a tilting block in the slot in the forearm iron that engages the lip on the forearm loop. Not the Deeley & Edge opposing hooks. Ansley Fox used the tilting block on his Philadelphia Arms Co. Fox Parker Bros. lookalike.

Probably one of the best latches was that on the late Ithaca NID ejector guns that combined the spring tension of the Baker J-Spring with the locking feature of the lever-actuated tilting block.

I have had a shotgun with Deeley & Edge style latch shed it's forearm while shooting, but it was obvious there was a need for adjustment. Wouldn't you think the Anson's pushrod spring was weak, or there was some other problem that needed addressing?

SRH

I have had trouble twice with the forend latch on my CSMC Fox. It would fasten normally but then I could take my finger at the forend tip and pull it about 1/4" away from the barrels.
I think I would rather have the push button latch.

The problem was obvious. When I gripped the gun with a glove on my left hand I actuated the latch unintentionally.

There was nothing wrong with the gun mechanically, there was everything wrong with the design of the latch and forend profile. The button was too big, had deep checkering that made it difficult to avoid, and was just something I was not going to fight with.

I solved the problem by selling the gun.

I've since acquired 2 others with the same latch system. Although I'm now prejudiced against the whole concept of the Anson latch I coexist with these because the buttons are less obtrusive. I've yet to have one drop the forend on me.

It would be better if neither gun had that latch system.

My Rizzini dropped the Anson latch button and shaft on the skeet field where I was VERY lucky to find it. Somebody didn't locktite the Mickey Mouse set screw and the whole shaft backed off several turns and fell out. You would think this impossible but it's not.

B. Rizzini is so in love with Anson, they have them on everything I've seen that they make. You want a Rizzini, you get an Anson latch. Locktite job not included.

I can see how that happened SJ, especially with a short splinter f/e.

I can envision a different Anson style latch where a small metal button, shaped like the front end of the f/e wood, would be inset into it so that, when latched, the button would be flush with the wood, but easily depressed with the fingertip to remove. Dewey V. could make that happen very easily, I believe. What I picture would look very attractive, and be more practical as well, in my mind.

FWIW, some guns with Deeley & Edge latches seem to stay tight much longer than others. My old BSS, hard used with heavy loads, and having a beavertail f/e which stresses the whole relationship more, has stayed tight all these years. No discernible movement at all in the f/e when the breech is opened fully. Even though the right barrel is .003" off face the f/e remains snug. I have not a clue why it has stayed tight when others, less used and with splinters, have worked themselves slightly loose. Jim Kelley tightened one for me on a Philly A grade Fox last year.

SRH

That's exactly how they should be designed Stan.

It's remarkable given the common way of gripping the forend of a SxS gun that a button protruding in the location they do was ever considered acceptable.

O/U guns are generally gripped differently (although I've seen some unconventional shooting styles) so the position of the button is less of a concern.

Agree- I bought a grade 2E 12 from the late Brad B. about 6 years ago-the first series with the "snail titties" cocking indicators. Love it, crisp triggers, 30" barrels, og stock and spl. forearm with a never get loose latch system. Once owned a Ideal grade Smith non-ejector 12 gauge with the Curtis forearm latch- solid and sure, IMO RWTF

anson, deeley or snap on...

they all seem to work just fine...

deeley looks the best to my eye...

snap on perceived by some as cheap gun alternative...

http://www.hallowellco.com/shotgun.htm

I have a W&C Scott and Son hammer-gun with what looks like a Deely latch out on the end of the forearm. I'd post a picture but Photobucket has shaken the bucket again and I cannot figure out how to post a pic here anymore...Geo

Per Stan's "I'm interested in opinions" request - here's my Can$0.02 worth (discounted).
My accumulation of double-barreled shotguns exhibits the three most common types of forearm attachments.
Because there was so much I did not know and was "self-teaching" - I bought books and READ. (Confession - I was voluntarily seduced by the golden pen of the late and great Michael McIntosh). I read and practiced the proper ways to handle/manipulate each of the three main types … especially the "wheres and whens" to apply pressure - and NOT to apply pressure.
Appears there are physical and monetary pros & cons for all three methods.
However, for my personal tastes - I prefer the Anson forearm release system, as seen on my early AD2000s FAIR O/Us in 16 and 28 GAs.

Thanks, Ian.

How do you like your FAIRs? I've got a couple and regard them highly.

SRH

I’m a real throwback. Of all the latches I prefer the old fashioned cross wedge as found on the earliest guns, even back into the flintlock days. Nothing as sure has ever been used and while admittedly slower to remove they are simple and one less thing not to go awry. Didn’t Dewey Vicnair choose a cross wedge on his custom built double?

Keyed forestocks are fine. I have several. But, I wouldn't care for one on a breechloader forearm, because they still don't overcome the issue of wear creating looseness when the action is opened and closed. It would eventually create "play", just like a Deeley & Edge fastener allows to happen. With a m/l that's not an issue, of course. My keyed forestocks are all m/l shotguns and rifles.

Thanks for the comments. I'm enjoying and learning.

Best, SRH

But Stan, I’ve got the wedge forend fasteners on about a half dozen hammer breechloaders, most about 150 years old and still tight. Never a problem.

My bad, Joe. I forgot that that type fastener carried over into the hammer gun era. You make a good point.

Thanks, SRH

I made the same point very early on. You missed that also.

I like the strong simple snap-ons. When waterfowling with my Nitro Specials, I leave the splinter forend wood at home as I grasp the barrels well in front to shoot. Why let water, mud, and vegetation collect on the wood, latch and barrels above? Or have the wood wear away sliding on the gunnel? Would be different with a beavertail or overunder. And not recommended for an upland game gun where carrying is involved, but I still grasp the barrels in front of the forend for better pointing ability.

That you did, Brent. That you did.

SRH

I personally prefer the Deeley latch as it draws the forend off the forend hanger draw when pulled, whereas the Anson and keyed forends do not, you have to pull. Not a huge issue of the draw isn’t too tight. The Rigby does draw it up/off the hanger.

To improve upon the Deeley arrangement I’d have a replaceable draw on the forend hanger/loop. Dovetailed in perhaps.

Thank you for your thoughts on this, Aaron. Good stuff to consider.

SRH

I have a Fox AE 20 ga. at Dewey V.'s right now awaiting a repair to that. On a dove shoot last year the forend fell off in my hand when I opened the gun to reload. Upon closer examination I learned that the barrel lug had broken off at the "hook". According to Dewey it will have to be replaced.

SRH

The Rigby latch--much shorter than the ones that extend nearly to the tip of the forend--was used on most Manufrance Robust sxs. Never had any latch issues with those.

When New England Arms folded, Cabela's ended up with a bunch of FAIR OU's. Closed them out at very attractive prices. Standard configuration was round knob/SST/vent rib. But you could order them with straight grip/DT/solid rib. Some options that are not available on most OU's.

Stan - How do I like my FAIRs?
Sorry for delay in responding, but I've been tap-dancing the past number of days - readying for the deer season, winter, reloading, and range zeroing several rifles - LabRadar is quite the chronograph, after years and YEARS using a Shooting Chrony.
(The late) Brian Dwyer/GunMart, Brockville Ontario phoned me at work and said his FAIR O/U ordered guns of 2002 had arrived.
Went down to buy a 20Ga O/U and examined the nine or so available. Several IMMEDIATE "real KEEPERS" smiled at me. On spec, I decided to look at the three 28 Ga FAIRs that came in too. At this point I had never even fired a 28 Ga shotgun. Examined all three and one I simply would NOT release my grip on. Went home with it. Pretty sure the wood is Turkish, with nice figure and standard cast-off for a right-handed user. I was so impressed with it, a week or two later I gave Brian my order for my "semi-bespoke" DREAM 16 Ga O/U.
Asked that FAIR leave the barrels and butt-stock as long as possible, English hand, double triggers, funeral finish with gold lined border encompassing the sideplates. IIRC Shooting Sportsman magazine had run a New England Arms ad with a FAIR with that "funeral finish" with surrounding gold line that raised my blood pressure. The Dwyers made their then annual January(?) trip to IWA or EXE and placed their (and my) orders. for the upcoming year. Six months or so later their FAIR annual order came in and my "semi-bespoke" 16Ga FAIR had arrived. It arrived - but due to a price increase Brian thought I would balk at, the asked for frame "finish"' was changed to a dot-matrix design that I figured I could eventually "live with" - as the rest of the gun was just so delightful. Anson forearm release and fretted action lever/release were standard.
These FAIRS (of the early 2000s anyways) were GREAT value for the money. I suspect Isodoro Rizzini (FAIR) makes the frames for MANY Italian firms. They aren't Piottis by any sretch - but IMHO the ones I saw and own are GREAT value for the money.
Have used both my FAIRS a "fair" bit and never had a problem. Very quickly learned to keep my right elbow HIGH when using the 16Ga with English hand.
If times ever "get tough" these two FAIRS and my L.C. Smith 3E SxS 12 Ga will be the last ones "to go".

Thanks, Ian. I have really been impressed with my two. One is a Verona LX 692 Gold Sporting Combo in 28 ga. and .410, with 30" barrels. The other is my 30" barreled FAIR Iside Tartaruga Gold, in .410.

Very good guns for not a lot of money.

SRH