Picked up a rough Lefever yesterday that caught my attention.

Serial Number; 12395

Lock plates, action and one barrel set(26") have very similar "font" for the stamped s/n.

Second barrel set has a different font is stamped E12395.
Is the "E" significant?

26" Barrels: marked on the rib "Lefefer Arms Co. Patentees & Makers Syracuse NY"
s/n 12395 on left barrel flat
9641 stamped on both barrels approx 2" forward of the flats.

32" Barrels
E12395 stamped about 1" forward of right barrel flat.
No other markings on barrels.
Rib is machine matted.

Quick check with a bore gauge has 26" bores in the .783" range with .003" & .006" choke.
32" bores in th .790" range with approx .015" & .030"

Bores and all metal is very, very dirty but no gross pitting. Actually, no obvious pitting at all but bores need a good scrubbing. Spiders had taken up residence.

Came from a dead gunsmith auction and was clearly someones project. Stock is broken completely through the wrist and buttstock in missing. Parts were taped together with some very old masking tape, so a detailed cleaning should be done.

I'd post pictures, but I haven't kept up with any hosting sites as most forums now allow uploading pictures.

Thoughts and comments on this Lefever?
My "guess" is 26" are damaged originals and the 32" are replacements.

Thank you in advance.

12395 is the serial number of the later barrels, E is the grade, and maybe a lower number, 9641, is the serial number of the original gun.

Ok firstly, ya need to post pictures.

2nd, if the frame, trigger guard and one set of barrels says 12,395...that is the serial number of the gun. If the 2nd set is stamped with both the 9xxx number AND the 12,395, my bet is the barrels are a factory original 2nd set. They used barrels that they had in house, which had been previously stamped 9xxx...and they stamped them with the 12,395 number to match. This was not uncommon with Lefever. If they only had a different number on them I would say they had been robbed from another gun...but if the 12,395 stamp is original, the most likely conclusion is they were sold as a factory original 2nd barrel set.

All the same, different fonts might give me pause. Pictures would tell the tale.

Unless I missed it, you didnt say what letter grade stamp is on the frame. The E on your barrels is likely a grade stamp, which some Lefever barrels have. Sometimes the grade stamp on the barrels is mismatched to the frame. We have seen things as odd as a C grade with Optimus stamped barrels.

Good find, even if in rough condition. Going by just your description, I think you have a factory original two barrel set. It would be quite interesting if the 26" barrels are un-cut original length. For a 10 ga that's pretty short, but not out of the question. If you post a clear photo of the muzzle it will be obvious if they've been cut....Lefever barrels should ALWAYS touch.

NDG

Been posting pictures on this site since '97.
If I had an easy way to do it, they would already be up.

Grade stamp on the frame is "F"
Triggerguard is broken(and missing) aft of the screw hole, so no s/n on that part.

What caught my eye and clued me in that it was an earlier Lefever was the pivoting top lever.
Should also mention that both barrel sets use the same forend.

Since you insist on pictures, here are the ones put up by the auction house. .

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACt...9-no?authuser=0

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACt...9-no?authuser=0

I actually went to buy this AyA that was part of the same auction lot and discovered the interesting details of the Lefever when I got there.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACt...9-no?authuser=0

12395 is the s/n on action.

I'll post the photos for you. There are geniuses with wrenches, torches, engraving tools, who are paralyzed in front of technology.

Nice packaging! But I feel strongly the tape is not original.

Seriously though, an interesting project gun. If the frame says F, ther gun is an F. Don't even worry about whether the barrels are original or not...just enjoy whatever you make of the project.

Nudge

Argo,

Thanks for the images. Usually the Google images will host with the img tags, but not here.

The software for this site is a bit.....dated.

I plan on sitting it aside for now, as there are many projects ahead of it. Have a couple of 20ga Flues I am restoring for my grandson. Two early A Grade Fox's will be here in a few days. One needs a new stock. Plus the rifles I am building.

If I get those done in any reasonable time frame and this is still on the shelf, then maybe. But I suspect that it will head down the road. I haven't stocked a small frame O/U and the AyA is that.

It’s easy to post pics here. And any free hosting site will work...

Yup.
I have thousands of pics hosted on Photobucket. Even have a paid account, but they decided recently that I had too many pics....

Haven't set up another account anywhere as every other site I participate on has gone to hosting their own.

Not a bid deal, just included that note to explain why I wasn't putting up pics. I can remember the good ol' days when you had to type the HTML code to make it work.

jpgbox.com is free. Establish and account (free). Then it's not hard to post the code.

Yes, I know this.

I haven't posted pictures here in a loooong time. It wasn't until I was typing the post that I remembered that the site doesn't host its own pictures.

I decided to put up the post despite that.

You guys are cracking me up. I was posting pictures on this site with a camera that used floppy discs. I know the process.

Imgur is also a good site.

Nudge

The F stamp near the serial number on the water table of the frame is the grade of this gun. It is not unusual to see a Lefever that has barrels with a higher grade stamp than the frame. But I have never seen a Lefever with original barrels that had a lower letter grade stamp than the frame.

I find it a bit unusual that the 9641 serial number barrels had that 9641 number on both barrels. When we see Lefever barrels with a second serial number, the original serial number is on one barrel, and the added number is typically on the other barrel. I cannot recall ever seeing a Lefever with the serial number on the barrel flats, such as you describe on the 26" set. So I tend to believe that the 26" barrels were fitted to this gun after it was built, and most likely the work was not done by Lefever Arms Co.

Also, I have seen shortened Lefever barrels that still touched at the muzzles. You cannot simply look at the muzzles and judge if they have been shortened or not. You need to examine all of the evidence such as the length of the choke tapers, the degree of choke, the position and centering of the sight bead, the presence or absence of keels, the solder, and the overall workmanship and condition of the muzzles.