The MX8 and MX2000 guns have removable trigger groups and are classified as true trigger plate guns. The MX12 and MX2000S have non-removable triggers. Are the MX12 and 2000S guns considered boxlocks or are they considered trigger plate guns too? I’ve been told both things (the trigger mechanisms for the MX12 appear to be pinned through the back strap which appears an integral part of the action).
Well, I’m not surprised there is no response here. There’s next to nothing re this issue out there on the internet. I’m voting the MX12 and MX2000S guns are boxlock mechanisms and NOT trigger plate guns. Thanks for looking and considering this question.
Buzz, I will look in my Perazzi book asap and see of there is anything there that might help, although I am fairly certain you have already checked there. (?)
SRH
'Trigger plate action' is the term we're looking for here, right buzz?
The location of the hammer axles would seem to be the defining characteristic.
If the hammers ride on the trigger plate, and the bottom 'strap' or tang drops free from the rest of the frame during disassembly then you have a 'trigger plate action'. A 'Blitz action is a subset of that type.
If the frame (or 'receiver', same difference really) is machined in one piece and the lower tang does not drop out with the entire 'action' riding on it, then you have a boxlock gun. The hammers would ride on axles that would need to be driven out of the frame for disassembly.
I think. At least that's the way I've understood it. I don't have a Perazzi for examination.
buzz, looking through Lippard's book I find only a couple of clues to your question. On p.22 he writes:
"The MX12 is a refinement of the MT6. It has a single trigger with a fixed coil spring mechanism. Coil springs for low maintenance. Primarily a hunting model, it was offered in a Sporting Clay weight (7 lbs. 12 oz.) configuration in 1991 to present. Sea shell sculpted frame with engraving makes for a beautiful gun. No side ribs offered until late 1992. "C" denoted choke tubes. Flat rib."
Then on p.71 this:
"If you look at a MX12, MX5, and other coil spring models, you will find that the hammers are not rebounding. The firing pins therefore are not rebounding either. They protrude out of the breech face. But, there is an ingenious thing that happens in one of these model Perazzi. Move the top lever, and the bottom hammer is withdrawn. The firing pin, under spring tension, therefore is withdrawn too."
Nothing definitive on action type, but maybe it will help you connect the dots and get an answer. I dunno.
Best, SRH
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkmX_lt50pQThe gun in the video I'd certainly call a trigger plate action.
If the other guns are similar, and just differ in ease of disassembly (ie, you have to drive some pins out or remove fasteners), then I'd still call it a trigger plate action gun if the whole action drops out on the trigger plate.
Thanks SJ and Stan. The Don Rackley video you cited SJ is an MX8 which is clearly a trigger plate mechanism. Don Rackley who sells Perazzi parts told me the MX12 and 2000S guns are classified as boxlocks. Don Currie on the other hand, who is chief NSCA instructor, told me the MX12 and MX2000S are trigger plate too. I’m betting Don Rackley is right and Currie is wrong.
They are certainly nice guns.
That trigger group dropout is slick.
Indeed, the MX8 is an awesome gun. Another nice trigger plate gun is the Beretta 682 which are only around $2k. Unbelievable price point re Beretta.
I'd put my money on Don's assessment of the guns, too. In my experiences with him I have been quite impressed. I can't say that about all Perazzi "specialists" I've dealt with.
SRH
Actually, they both are right.
Having owned "a few, and still do", and worked on Perazzis since they became popular in this country, the Perazzis are almost all "trigger plate actions" in that the hammers and sears are attached to the trigger plate. Perazzi became famous for competition O/U shotguns, trap, skeet and Bunker. One of their claims to fame was the removable (drop out?) trigger assembly. Perazzi also built the same basic design model that had a non-removable trigger group, and utilized coil hammer springs.
The early hammer springs were somewhat prone to breakage, so they needed to be taken out to be replaced, and you could do it yourself on a trap field. The coil springs eliminated this requirement, but the removable trigger group is still used, with a choice of coil or leaf springs on many models. The current hammer leaf springs are a lot more reliable than the early ones, so maybe you don't need to take it out to replace a spring, but it is nice to take the trigger out to clean and lube it once in a while.
And a lot of people feel the leaf spring guns had a faster lock time. In the early days (late 60s, 70's) some gunsmiths converted the leaf spring triggers to coil springs, Pachmayr was one, probably others also.
Perazzi early on built true side lock guns, O/U and SxS, which are pretty rare and pricey. Perazzis were all box lock guns, save the sidelock guns mentioned, and are "trigger plate actions" as hammers and sears are mounted on the trigger plate. I am not sure about their current side by side as I have never looked inside. I believe it also has a removable trigger assembly.
Early on, Perazzi even made a removable double trigger assembly for the MX8; now that is a rare bird today.
As I remember, their MX8 model O/U was named for the Montreal olympics in 1968, which they won, wish I could remember the shooter's name, someone will, no doubt.
This appears to be a diagram of a Perazzi with non-removeable trigger.
https://www.perazzi.it/site/en/node/454It certainly appears to be a trigger plate action to me.
Actually, they both are right.
Having owned "a few, and still do", and worked on Perazzis since they became popular in this country, the Perazzis are almost all "trigger plate actions" in that the hammers and sears are attached to the trigger plate. Perazzi became famous for competition O/U shotguns, trap, skeet and Bunker. One of their claims to fame was the removable (drop out?) trigger assembly. Perazzi also built the same basic design model that had a non-removable trigger group, and utilized coil hammer springs.
The early hammer springs were somewhat prone to breakage, so they needed to be taken out to be replaced, and you could do it yourself on a trap field. The coil springs eliminated this requirement, but the removable trigger group is still used, with a choice of coil or leaf springs on many models. The current hammer leaf springs are a lot more reliable than the early ones, so maybe you don't need to take it out to replace a spring, but it is nice to take the trigger out to clean and lube it once in a while.
And a lot of people feel the leaf spring guns had a faster lock time. In the early days (late 60s, 70's) some gunsmiths converted the leaf spring triggers to coil springs, Pachmayr was one, probably others also.
Perazzi early on built true side lock guns, O/U and SxS, which are pretty rare and pricey. Perazzis were all box lock guns, save the sidelock guns mentioned, and are "trigger plate actions" as hammers and sears are mounted on the trigger plate. I am not sure about their current side by side as I have never looked inside. I believe it also has a removable trigger assembly.
Early on, Perazzi even made a removable double trigger assembly for the MX8; now that is a rare bird today.
As I remember, their MX8 model O/U was named for the Montreal olympics in 1968, which they won, wish I could remember the shooter's name, someone will, no doubt.
Thank you Dennis. So, by definition, would a Dickson round body with its trigger plate mechanism be considered a boxlock in the literal sense of the terminology as well? Ennio Matarelli re MX8 Olympian.
Actually,
As I remember, their MX8 model O/U was named for the Montreal olympics in 1968, which they won, wish I could remember the shooter's name, someone will, no doubt.
Dennis,
I hate to correct my elders but the 1968 Olympic games were held in Mexico City & that is where the MX8 name came from on the drop out trigger guns that made Perazzi well known & I can't remember the name of the men's International Trap winner either.
The 1976 Olympic games were held in Montreal & that is where the MT6 (non removable trigger group gun) was introduced as an International Skeet gun (that was the one w/ the gaudy striped receiver).
The DC12 & DC20 SxS guns do indeed have a drop out trigger group that look just like the MX8 trigger group.
So, Dennis is calling 'trigger plate action' and 'droplock' designs a subset of 'boxlock'.
That's correct in as much as the actions are contained inside the 'box' of the frame as opposed to the obvious 'sidelock' designs.
I'll buy that I guess.
The other descriptive terms elucidate refinements.
Thanks for bringing me up to date on the Olympics, I should have known that, sorry. Sorry about the double post. Fine guns and designs are very interesting.
I'd call them all boxlocks. They're just generally referred to as dropout trigger or fixed trigger and everyone knows what yer talking about. The drop-out trigger guns have a one piece breech - top tang - backstrap - bottom tang unit that does not disassemble. The trigger assembly hammers,springs,cocking feet, sears, interrupter,etc removes as a unit.
On the non-dropout actions one screw and one cross pin lets the entire lower tang complete with all the trigger components as above be removed from the action. Not as quick and easy as the MX8 fashion but certainly not any real imposition either.
I can cruise along and have an MX8 trigger assembly completely in parts in about 3 min. Takes about 10 for my MT6's since the coil springs are like all coil springs a bother.
Compare that to my 682's that are a pain and 45 min to an hr for the same thing and I avoid doing them like the plague.
And that, folks, is the real downside to Perazzis. They are so easy to disassemble that Joe Meathead thinks Hey! I can do that! I've never gotten one out of the many that have come thru my hands that was not missing parts and the goofs that lost them prolly didn't even know they were missing.
Dennis,
I hate to correct my elders but the 1968 Olympic games were held in Mexico City & that is where the MX8 name came from on the drop out trigger guns that made Perazzi well known & I can't remember the name of the men's International Trap winner either.
Ennio Mattarelli was the Perazzi shooter. He did not medal - Bob Braithwaite (GB) took the Gold
The 1976 Olympic games were held in Montreal & that is where the MT6 (non removable trigger group gun) was introduced as an International Skeet gun (that was the one w/ the gaudy striped receiver).
And Mattarelli again used the MX8. Donald Stanley Haldeman (USA) took the Gold
The DC12 & DC20 SxS guns do indeed have a drop out trigger group that look just like the MX8 trigger group. [/quote]
The older DC SxS boxlocks were available with either the dropout or fixed trigger and had a completely different lockup