I need to make some very thin tip turnscrews. I have the Brownells thin bit magantip set and they are too thick. Would you recommend grinding those down or start with something different?

Save em and go buy a Stanley driver to turn down!

I find grinding the big box cheap imports to work just as well as the super expensive stuff. The problem I run into is the width selection is limited.

bill

My suggestion is, go buy some spade bit wood boring tools. You have a variety of widths to choose. Take a Dremel cut off wheel and cut the point off. Hollow grind them on the face of a grinding wheel, it takes a little practice to avoid overheating them. You can then use them as screw jacks with a ratchet in the drill press, make a wooden or Delrin handle, or with Chapman handles and a ratchet. This method dramatically reduces boogered screws.

Just my way of thinking after 50 years at the bench.

James

To to the pawn shop and get a bag full of cheap screwdrivers.
Grind them, then throw away if you want.

You can id slot width with feeler gauges, and then use calipers to measure the flat parallel blade.

Clean your slots, and bottom out the blade.

The slots are saw cut, so fill the slot with the blade.

When James Flynn gives you information, you need to listen. These spade drills are forged and are made of high quality and tough steel.

40 years ago there was a TV commercial for the investment firm EF Hutton. "When EF Hutton talks everyone listens" Advise from James Flynn should be the same way.

If there ever was a person "who has been there and done that" it is Flynn.

Spade bits it will be. I never thought of using those but it makes perfect sense.
Thanks for all the tips.

Scott

Thanks James, that is very useful information.
Karl

+1

DDA

How much effort is the average bodger going to make to remove a screw without damaging it?

You are lucky if they even know the slot is parallel, and a screwdriver isn't.

Doubly lucky if they never take a screwdriver to any part of an old double.

And then, without promoting bodgery, "How many times do you actually WANT a former owner after the innards of an old shotgun?"

Which goes to "How much effort and TIME are you really going to expend (I won't say waste) in your efforts to remove 1 screw on a shotgun you hope to never have to get inside of ever again?"

if your livelihood is at the bench, that's a whole different matter.

Same with making spanners for removing risk set strikers.

How long, and how hard, for Why? Again?

You weren't asking me, but I enjoy making and doing things myself, even if that requires more time, money and effort. Even if some folks consider it bodgery (by which I assume you mean cobbling something together, not chair-making).

And, sometimes, it's actually less effort and money to just make or do something. For example, I spent quite some time and effort trying to find disc set spanners for an AyA 4/53 that quite firing in one barrel. I finally gave up and made my own. Turned out not to be a firing pin issue as expected, and I'm glad I didn't send it all the way to New England (AyA's US repair site) to figure that out. In fact, the problem was floating metal from a poor repair of a broken internal part, undoubtedly by the same smith who buggered the screws. After I found the problem, I was quoted about $400 plus shipping, FFL, etc by my nearest 'qualified' gun smith to repair. Instead, I ordered a replacement part for $12 plus shipping and fixed the gun myself (following the advice on how to repair it that I got from said gunsmith-- they were very helfpul). It was my first gunsmithing project. I ultimately saved a lot of money, and also learned a ton in the process.

Here's what I found under the hood:


As to the original question of "how?" not "if?", I don't have even a fraction of Mr Flynn's experience, and I suspect his answer or something similar is best.

What I did, for what it's worth, is use a small belt grinder to fit the drivers I used. I started with a set of Grace drivers that turned out to be too thick, just like your Brownell's bits. Would have been cheaper to use old junk drivers I had laying around I guess.
I also made new handles on the lathe, but that was just for the fun of it. The only disadvantage I see to that is that I don't have the option of chucking them up in the press, which would be great.

Here's a picture of some of mine. Obviously a waste of time to make nice handles, etc except for the aesthetics and fun of making something on the lathe.

Some people just don't understand, Woodreaux. You do, and I do, too. That doesn't make it right for everybody, but it also doesn't make it wrong for us.

The reality is ...... if you think everybody that isn't a professional will booger up what they do, you probably shouldn't try it yourself. Because, most likely you will.

Good post.

SRH

Replacement screws are a cottage industry.
Must be a reason.

If I want to remove a screw, I'm going to measure the slot, and pick a bit that fits the slot. Maybe belt sand one a touch thinner.

I'm not going to buy Taconite pellets.

It's about removing a screw without messing up the slot.

In my experience at the bench, there is a much larger proportion of gun owners who acknowledge their limitations and don't try to work on their guns, than "gunsmiths" who won't acknowledge their limitations, and do.

Words of wisdom, Mike. Well said.

SRH

As an related aside, where would one locate thin saws to create and/or clean up screw slots? I'm not even sure what kind are used.

Right here:

https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn/Milling/Slitting-Slotting-Saws?searchterm=Slitting+%26+Slotting+Saws&navid=4287923964

SRH

I see it didn't link. Go to mscdirect.com and do a search for slitting-slotting saws.

SRH

Slitting saw blades are often available on ebay cheaper than normal suppliers. I just stocked up. I use .020", .025" and .032" most frequently.

Brownell’s used to sell a set of Thin Bit set to compliment their std Magna-tip set. 18 thin bits.
I have found them useful on many British screws.
Their std set is 0.030-0.050” various widths
Thin set are 0.020-0.025” various widths

I have the Magna-tip thin bits and I had to grind one thinner to fit the screw to remove the sidelocks on my wife's Grulla.

Most anything can be bought on eBay cheaper than other retailers. I buy there often, but one must be very cautious as to quality. If it says Made in the USA it's probably good quality. If not, it may be questionable. Sometimes it's a crapshoot.

SRH

I agree with James's suggestion. He should probably be thought of as a national treasure.

I do have one caveat, not all screw slots have parallel sides some are tapered. I've seen this on more than one high end German gun. I have a theory on how this was done but I'm not for sure so I'll keep my thoughts to my self. My point is don't assume anything. I've modified a few old wood handled Grace screwdrivers just for that purpose. BTW, I love wood handles they just feel better than plastic.

One other passing thought on screw slots, CJO and I were perusing the fine shotguns at the Southern a few years back and he said "look at this!" a Rizzini R1 (I think) had the narrowest screw slots I've ever seen. I have no idea how they assembled the gun tightened and timed the screws!

Doug,
The slots that are tapered are filed rather than sawed. My German gunsmith friend, Walter Grass, usually sawed the slots, but every once in a while he would file one. Now I wish I had asked him why. At the time, I thought it was for those small wood screws that wind up much thinner on one side than the other( in trigger guards, etc). I may have been wrong.
Mike

I have cut screw slots using a clockmaker's file, which I bought from Brownell's some 25 years ago. It cuts parallel slots though, not tapered, but narrow. I guess I could make it cut a tapered slot, if I had any need for such, which I don't. That is one unique little file. It will bend in a gentle curve if needed.

I see they do not sell them anymore. I'd better guard mine carefully.

SRH

Stan,
A favorite file is like a member of the family.
Mike

The kind words about me are appreciated.

There are still screw slotting files available as I have seen them on line. I bought some at Friedrich Dick's in Deizisau, Germany many years ago. Grobet still makes them.

That said, the finer they are, the easier they break. They must be used in a holder. They are also expensive. However, if you want a tapered slot, nothing else will do.

It is best to anneal the head before you start or you will ruin the file. Start the slot with a with a fine jeweler's saw, or a hack saw blade with the kerf ground off, then finish up with the clockmaker's file.

The idea of a tapered slot is similar to a taper shank drill. The possibility of a tight fit is easier than parallel sides.

James

Great stuff. Thanks to everyone who participated. Made my Covid 19 day bearable!