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Posted By: Lloyd3 Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/26/20 06:25 PM
Had fun yesterday shooting clays with a serious clay shooter. He's the reining senior champion here in Colorado (or at least he was) and he's still very competitive even in his 80s. He was shooting his favorite stack-barrel and my son and I were shooting our normal hunting side-by-sides. It was sure fun to finally get out and about in the sunshine and the breeze and... after a bit it got me to thinking about just how well a nicer Spanish sidelock tolerates the relatively-inexpensive Remington and Federal 12-gauge loads available at the ranges in our area. I opted for a flat of the Federal one-ounce loads but they still seemed fairly sharp to me. Both guns were a bit hard to open at times (my 557 Arietta normally digests RSTs as a course of habit, although it is in proof for 1 1/8 ounce 2 3/4 loads). I'm guessing that if I'm going to be doing much more of this, I'll need to either find a reasonable supply of Winchester AA Lightweights or lean to reload again. The maroon Federal shells we were shooting seemed to be all over the place in terms of report and recoil.
Posted By: Replacement Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/26/20 07:21 PM
Try Win Super-X in the 1-oz load, silver box. Pretty soft shooting.
Posted By: craigd Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/26/20 07:35 PM
I've done just the opposite Lloyd. I've hand thrown hundreds of clays over the last few weeks for my boy. He's a bit bigger now, normally off somewhere else with other obligations. Taking advantage of the hunker, he's improving a noticable bit. We could go to the regular clays range, but we've also mixed in a bunch of pistol and longer range rifle shooting at the same shooting area. He even got the tannerite bug out of his system. Been throwing them all away, but I suppose I should check if steel head hulls will reload a time or two. Have fun with it.
Posted By: Karl Graebner Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/26/20 08:20 PM
Lloyd,
SxS's are all I shoot at sporting clays anymore. I've been using the Estate SS target loads and really like them. Loaded at 1 OZ. and 1180 FPS they shoot much softer and cleaner than the typical Federal, Winchester, and Fiocchi target loads in my 6 1/2 lb. 12 ga. guns.
The 12 ga. 2 1/2 chambered Churchill gets the RST 1 oz. loads however.
Karl
Posted By: Shotgunjones Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/26/20 08:35 PM
Estate IS a good shell.

Of course you know it's a Federal product. The first run of that stuff was smokey and dirty. They learned quickly.

It's currently the best available 'promo' load, at least in 12 gauge in my opinion.

Last test results I saw indicate they use about 3.5% Antimony shot.

Gun Clubs are about 2%. The 'old' Herter's were 1% (essentially chilled shot).

I won't buy Winchester anything, except AA and that usually only in 410 because I want the hulls. Winchester Universal is pretty crummy stuff.

I'm sure Federal would love to hear about those 'all over the place' shells. That's contrary to the experience of nearly everyone else. Federal makes good consistent ammunition in my experience, even in the lower priced line.




Posted By: PALUNC Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/27/20 12:20 AM
I shot my Garbi 101 12 bore yesterday at Deep River Spoeting. It is a somewhat heavy gun at around 7lbs and 6 oz with 29 1/2" barrels.
I was shooting the Winchester Super Target, I believe they were 1 ounce and around 1180 FPS.
The club house at DR was selling the same shell in 7/8 ounce at 980 FPS.
A guy who was shooting with us bought two boxes. They sounded like a 22 going off every time he pulled the trigger.
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/27/20 01:00 AM
I shoot a heavy MX8 as my everyday sporting gun. Even so I prefer a slow load ....... either 1 or 1 1/8 oz. at under 1200.

When I shoot my S X S guns I use the same loads. Contrary to some here I won't go less than 1 oz. in a 12 ga. I don't shoot soft stuff except when I am entered in a tournament that sets the birds that way, I.e., a "charity shoot". Lower velocity is no detriment to good scores, even on long stuff. It is, however, a help to gun management under recoil. Or, said another way, it helps get you on the second bird without wrestling or conscious mental effort. One bird in a 100 bird match is all it takes to put you in first place of your class, or HOA.

Best, SRH
Posted By: bill schodlatz Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/27/20 01:18 AM
I shoot Estate SS in 12 and 20. WW Super Taget in 12 and 20 are also pleasent loads. WW Universal are banned at one club I shoot at. JUNK

bill
Posted By: Stoneke Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/27/20 03:25 AM
If you can find them, try some 7/8 oz loads. You will be surprised at the efficiency and the soft recoil. Yes, for 40 yd targets something of a heavier payload is useful, but closer than that 7/8 is all that is needed.
Posted By: Imperdix Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/27/20 06:45 AM
Only use 7/8oz fibres in my s/sides for clays and they do the the job.Comfortable to shoot in lighter weight guns.Use them more often than not in o/u `s too! Mostly 7 1/2 shot but prefer 8`s if I can get them.
Posted By: DoubleTake Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/27/20 12:55 PM
Originally Posted By: Imperdix
Only use 7/8oz fibres in my s/sides for clays and they do the the job.Comfortable to shoot in lighter weight guns.Use them more often than not in o/u `s too! Mostly 7 1/2 shot but prefer 8`s if I can get them.


I've been doing the same for the last 20 years in my light 12 and 16 ga. SxS's. It makes reloading worth it.
Posted By: Imperdix Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/27/20 01:36 PM
Would like to load some but I cannot source a 7/8 oz bush for my old Redding round bar over here!
Posted By: Chantry Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/27/20 02:10 PM
I found that Federal and Herter's have relatively soft primers and will cause some guns to stick and be hard to open. Herter's it is maybe a couple of times a box of 25. With Federals it is more frequent.
Posted By: Shotgunjones Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/27/20 04:34 PM
It's not the primers, it's the steel heads.
Posted By: Shotgunjones Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/27/20 04:39 PM
Originally Posted By: Imperdix
Would like to load some but I cannot source a 7/8 oz bush for my old Redding round bar over here!


Couple layers of masking tape around the inside of the bushing or shot bar cavity usually works.

Keep an eye on it, and weigh the shot charge frequently.

Masking tape is remarkably durable stuff.
Posted By: Imperdix Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/27/20 06:21 PM
Good suggestion ! I do have a couple of larger bushes that I could experiment with.
Posted By: Shotgunjones Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/27/20 06:49 PM
It worked for me on a temporary basis long ago when I wanted to try an ounce and a sixteenth for some reason I don't remember.

Parts for your loader are going to be difficult to find.

A more permanent solution may be to make a sleeve for your bushing out of some kind of tubing and epoxy it in place.

Necessity is a mother.
Posted By: L. Brown Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/27/20 07:29 PM
I use 7/8 oz most of the time in 12 or 16ga--skeet, 5 stand, sporting clays. But for the latter two, I'll usually have some 1 oz loads available for longer presentations. But that's just recreational. If I were shooting competition, then I expect I'd use factory 1 oz loads.
Posted By: KY Jon Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/27/20 10:26 PM
I have gone to reloading "standard" loads for all my side by side needs. In 12 it is one ounce at 1150 fps and 5,500 psi. I load this load in a 2 1/2" roll crimp but am working on a 2 1/2" folded crimp version. In 20 I have gone to a 7/8 ounce load at 1,150 fps at 7,000 psi. These are loaded in a roll crimp but I am getting close to a working 2 1/2" folded crimp version as well.

I only use one hull type for each gauge and load nothing else in that type hull. So every B&P 12 hull I have loaded are low(er) pressure loads and every 20 AA shell I have are low pressure loads. In the end I suspect I will just cut several thousand hulls down to 2 1/2" and load everything the same in both gauges.

Loading gets too complicated if you are not careful. I was not. I took inventory and discovered I had over 25 wads types, six primer types and 15 plus powders on hand. Most well stocked gun shops do not have my selection. The goal is to reduce this down to five powders and maybe six different types wads. Loading from 10 to .410 makes inventory more complex. Plus you always end up with stuff you do not use anymore, just taking up room in the reloading room.

Thousands of hulls may take up too much room but I still hate to let them go. You never know what you can use. Case in point is the B&P 1 ounce load I have been working on. I have 5,000 plus once fired hulls to work with. Been storing them for about ten years. Finding a load for them is great because that is one hull I have not loaded recently. So any reloaded shell will be a know, certain to be safe load. I am just waiting for a report about final pressure and velocity before I go into volume reloading of them.
Posted By: Lloyd3 Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/27/20 11:02 PM
Lots of good ideas here as to why things were "sticky upon" opening. Both the primers and the steel heads sound quite feasible. They sell Remington stuff at the local clubs as well. Is that something I should consider instead of the Federals? Also, I should clarify...the 1-ounce Federals were clearly warmer than my usual RST loads. My perception of varying recoil could be merely because of the occasional stickiness upon opening.
Posted By: Shotgunjones Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/27/20 11:26 PM
Originally Posted By: Lloyd3
Lots of good ideas here as to why things were "sticky upon" opening. Both the primers and the steel heads sound quite feasible. They sell Remington stuff at the local clubs as well. Is that something I should consider instead of the Federals? Also, I should clarify...the 1-ounce Federals were clearly warmer than my usual RST loads. My perception of varying recoil could be merely because of the occasional stickiness upon opening.


I doubt that Remington Gun Club will solve that problem for you. It's a steel head too. The STS is a still a brass head to my knowledge. Brass rebounds better, and should not be sticky to open. Of course, STS is a premium and thus expensive shell.

You might try a one ounce load from Fiocchi. They make good ammunition in general. Even though they use a steel head shell I've never known Fiocchi to cause sticky opening.

Your RST is a euro made steel head shell too, they just load to lower pressure and that does help the head release it's grip after firing.

I had a Merkel for a while that was very difficult to open unless fed brass headed shells.


Posted By: Shotgunjones Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/27/20 11:48 PM
Originally Posted By: KY Jon


Loading gets too complicated if you are not careful. I was not. I took inventory and discovered I had over 25 wads types, six primer types and 15 plus powders on hand.


It's not 'quite' that out of hand here yet. I've been trying to guard against it, but I keep coming up with these brilliant ideas and new wonder loads.

I don't load anything 'standard' in 12ga. The whole appeal to me is custom loads.

I load factory duplication loads just to save money in 20 and 410, and also some 3/4oz 20's and spreaders.

But in 12, if I can buy it new it generally doesn't pay to load it.
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/27/20 11:59 PM
Originally Posted By: Shotgunjones

I don't load anything 'standard' in 12ga. The whole appeal to me is custom loads.

I load factory duplication loads just to save money in XXXXXXX 410, and also some XXXXXXXX spreaders.

But in 12, if I can buy it new it generally doesn't pay to load it.


Amen. +1

SRH
Posted By: craigd Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/28/20 12:16 AM
I paid closer attention today, and of course it may be different for you, but no glitches at all with Estate 1 oz, 1180 fps. Have also shot up some of the 1 1/8 oz and pretty good amount of Fiochi 1 oz lately. If you were still looking for an inexpensive, easy to come by shell. Made in the US on the box so I'd assume Federals, so if you try them, maybe keep that in mind just in case they disappoint.
Posted By: Shotgunjones Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/28/20 02:17 AM
Glad to hear somebody is shooting.

Announcement from Emmet County today that they are reopening 5-2 but with considerable restrictions.

I live with an immune compromised person, and I just cannot bring the virus home. It would kill her in a couple days.

As much as I like to shoot, I can't imagine having fun under these conditions. I really don't care if it kills me, I just don't want to watch someone else suffocate. I've lost an old friend to this already. True, he was 90 but without this bat shit he would still be alive.

I may sit the whole year out. Or longer.

Have fun if you can, where it's safe.
Posted By: graybeardtmm3 Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/28/20 03:24 AM
my bride has just had a heart valve replacement intravenously....we are staying out of the line of fire...buried my first wife ten years ago, june 16th...very educational....but not an experience i would promote.

i wish good health and good spirits for all.
Posted By: tw Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/28/20 04:12 AM
Most sorry to hear of anyone losing friends or family, regardless of circumstance. There is never anything easy about that. Condolences to all here who have been there.
--

To the OP's remarks; I'd suggest that you do learn to reload again and shoot 7/8oz. loads in those light weight 12's for quantity shooting. There is no point in loading to velocities beyond 1200fps and sometimes less is more in the areas of improved pattern concentration, but you'll have to prove that on a grease plate or empirically by a fair amount of shooting. Low gun skeet can give you a good idea of pattern density by both ink spots or misses;-) I've been beat up here before, for telling someone to just go shoot first, before getting too involved w/patterns, tho I've done plenty of patterning on paper and grease & counted enough pellet holes to where they may be in the Milky Way range by now. Suggest that you also use the least expensive, which generally equates to the softest, shot available to you.

You and your son will both be delighted in the reduced recoil from going that way and in CO's generally higher elevations & thinner air will also get tighter patterns than the lowlanders shooting at sea level or close for any designated amount of constriction.

I've taken large numbers of dove in SA over many years w/20ga. guns shooting 25grams of shot & never felt remotely 'under gunned'. Just saying.

If you have concern for some 'way out there' targets or mean 'edge on' rabbits on a sporty clays course, pack a box of any of the quality 28gram/1oz. premium target loads in #7.5 shot for them and never look back.

If you are reluctant to get back into reloading, suggest you buy a flat of the AA feather-lite/low recoil loads or whatever they call them, that are loaded to 980fps and you & your son split them shooting clays. You can make your own minds up afterwards.

Good shooting to you both.
tw
Posted By: Remington40x Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/28/20 03:30 PM
The Lyman shotshell reloading manuals have some excellent 7/8 ounce low pressure 2-3/4 inch folded crimp 12 gauge loads using Clays powder, Winchester AA hulls, the Claybuster 7/8 ounce wad (the one ounce wad works about as well for me with 7/8 ounce loads, with only the slightest dishing of the crimp) and Winchester primers. Several of my lightweight sxs are older and I use these loads exclusively in them for skeet. A somewhat heavier Clays powder charge in Remington Premier hulls with Federal primers produces an excellent high velocity international trap load which we use locally for a wobble trap setup with the machine cranked up to throw the bird at international speeds. By varying the hull type, I always know for which guns the load is acceptable. Hulls seem to last a very long time with either load.
Posted By: Chantry Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/28/20 05:32 PM
Originally Posted By: Shotgunjones
Originally Posted By: Lloyd3
Lots of good ideas here as to why things were "sticky upon" opening. Both the primers and the steel heads sound quite feasible. They sell Remington stuff at the local clubs as well. Is that something I should consider instead of the Federals? Also, I should clarify...the 1-ounce Federals were clearly warmer than my usual RST loads. My perception of varying recoil could be merely because of the occasional stickiness upon opening.


I doubt that Remington Gun Club will solve that problem for you. It's a steel head too. The STS is a still a brass head to my knowledge. Brass rebounds better, and should not be sticky to open. Of course, STS is a premium and thus expensive shell.

You might try a one ounce load from Fiocchi. They make good ammunition in general. Even though they use a steel head shell I've never known Fiocchi to cause sticky opening.

Your RST is a euro made steel head shell too, they just load to lower pressure and that does help the head release it's grip after firing.

I had a Merkel for a while that was very difficult to open unless fed brass headed shells.



I do a lot of cowboy shooting and the Remington Gun Clubs are common at matches. I don't remember seeing SxS shooters having problems opening the guns or shucking the shells.
Certainly things will vary from gun to gun, but the Federal shells from Walmart definitely cause problems.
Posted By: PALUNC Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/28/20 05:54 PM
If you want to go the next level get you some B&P Comp 1's in 7/8oz.
I shoot them in my English guns and they are great.
Posted By: Stoneke Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/28/20 06:06 PM
Regarding the sticky opening problem. I experienced this with my Grulla 12 bore. I was loading AA hulls with WW 209 primers and the firing pins seemed to be dragging on the primer. I was advised to try Rem 209 primers in the AA's and the problem ceased.
Posted By: BrentD, Prof Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/28/20 06:54 PM
Stoneke,
Did you have to worry about pressures with that primer change?
Posted By: Ken Nelson Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/28/20 07:18 PM
Originally Posted By: Stoneke
Regarding the sticky opening problem. I experienced this with my Grulla 12 bore. I was loading AA hulls with WW 209 primers and the firing pins seemed to be dragging on the primer. I was advised to try Rem 209 primers in the AA's and the problem ceased.


I've proven what you've said (regarding switching to Rem primers) many times.
Posted By: DoubleTake Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/28/20 08:40 PM
Unless it's a competitive league situation I never will understand why more SxS owners don't commit to shooting them for most or all of their clay targets. Not talking this site as it's about all about doubles here, but there's no greater shooting thrill than being on your game with a SxS either in the field or at the range.
Posted By: tw Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/28/20 08:47 PM
BrentD,

All else being equal, switching from Winchester 209 primers to Remington's will generally result in lower pressure. They are 'softer' from a brisance perspective. They are also significantly higher, cost wise, than any other primer.

I'd not be concerned about that substitution in a published 7/8oz. load, but you can always have a few pressure tested for little expense, if you are concerned.
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/29/20 12:35 AM
Originally Posted By: Dave Erickson
Unless it's a competitive league situation I never will understand why more SxS owners don't commit to shooting them for most or all of their clay targets. Not talking this site as it's about all about doubles here, but there's no greater shooting thrill than being on your game with a SxS either in the field or at the range.


Not being argumentative, Dave, just offering another perspective which, I highly suspect, is in the minority. I love my S X Ss, and have multiples more of them than my O/Us, pumps, and jammamatics combined. But, when I shoot clays I want to shoot the best score I can. Even when shooting with my buddies I want to be the high man on the squad. They all do, too. It is a given, over twenty years of experience, that I shoot 4-5 birds lower, on a 100 bird round, with my best S X S than with my MX8. If I shoot a great score with a S X S, I would have shot a higher score with the P gun, period.

What I really do love is being the first off the dove field when using my S X S. Maybe I'm just too competitive. Some say that being that way takes away the fun ........ baloney. Nobody out there loves it any better than I do. When I shoot by myself I'm competing against me, constantly wanting to improve. Don't feel sorry for me, I'm happy as a hog in a wallow.

Just another perspective, not necessarily carrying any weight.

SRH
Posted By: BrentD, Prof Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/29/20 12:41 AM
Originally Posted By: tw
BrentD,

All else being equal, switching from Winchester 209 primers to Remington's will generally result in lower pressure. They are 'softer' from a brisance perspective. They are also significantly higher, cost wise, than any other primer.

I'd not be concerned about that substitution in a published 7/8oz. load, but you can always have a few pressure tested for little expense, if you are concerned.


Understood and makes sense. Thanks. I have never used or even seen recipes for Remington primers while surfing through recipes looking for low pressure loads. I've been going the Cheddite route for lowest pressure loads now.
Posted By: DoubleTake Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/29/20 01:32 AM
Originally Posted By: Stan
Originally Posted By: Dave Erickson
Unless it's a competitive league situation I never will understand why more SxS owners don't commit to shooting them for most or all of their clay targets. Not talking this site as it's about all about doubles here, but there's no greater shooting thrill than being on your game with a SxS either in the field or at the range.


Not being argumentative, Dave, just offering another perspective which, I highly suspect, is in the minority. I love my S X Ss, and have multiples more of them than my O/Us, pumps, and jammamatics combined. But, when I shoot clays I want to shoot the best score I can. Even when shooting with my buddies I want to be the high man on the squad. They all do, too. It is a given, over twenty years of experience, that I shoot 4-5 birds lower, on a 100 bird round, with my best S X S than with my MX8. If I shoot a great score with a S X S, I would have shot a higher score with the P gun, period.

What I really do love is being the first off the dove field when using my S X S. Maybe I'm just too competitive. Some say that being that way takes away the fun ........ baloney. Nobody out there loves it any better than I do. When I shoot by myself I'm competing against me, constantly wanting to improve. Don't feel sorry for me, I'm happy as a hog in a wallow.

Just another perspective, not necessarily carrying any weight.

SRH


No problem, Stan. Just different strokes. If I shot clays in a highly competitive environment I'd want every advantage, too. I just find it so enjoyable to shoot my SxS's I want to shoot them year round.
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/29/20 01:49 AM
I wish very much that I could shoot mine as good as I can my O/Us. Wishing don't make to so, tho'. frown

SRH
Posted By: Remington40x Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/29/20 12:52 PM
I take great pleasure in shooting my sxs, especially my hammer guns, at clays and at game. I realize I'm probably giving something up over a dedicated target gun for clays, but they make me smile when I do well with them in a way that my o/u shotguns never have. And you get a lot of conversations started when you turn up with a hammer gun on a skeet field.
Posted By: Imperdix Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/29/20 12:59 PM
...Same here,I shooting with my s/sides is more rewarding than my o/u`s ,more of a natural gun to shoot I feel.
Posted By: gold40 Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/29/20 02:08 PM
Two Points:

Point 1. Most of us shoot higher scores with an O/U or S/A shotgun. An earlier quote: "It is a given, over twenty years of experience, that I shoot 4-5 birds lower, on a 100 bird round, with my best S X S than with my MX8. If I shoot a great score with a S X S, I would have shot a higher score with the P gun, period."

I too shoot better scores with my Beretta A-400 S/A.

Point 2. Most of my SxS are 50 to 90 years old. I prefer not to put the extra wear from hundreds of clay bird firings on these lovely old SxS shotguns. Its a lot easier to repair a broken part on a recent Beretta than an old Lefever or Remington SxS.

I almost always bird hunt with a SxS. When bird hunting, I probably fire less than 100 rounds a year through an old SxS. As opposed to 100 shots on a round of Sporting Clays.

JERRY GOLDSTEIN
Posted By: ClapperZapper Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/29/20 02:38 PM
In this months, “The Field”, magazine, there is an article about the FAIR Iside side-by-side shotgun.

Based on Italian build quality, I think it might be a good choice for heavier sporting clays use.

Single trigger, straight grip, Demi block Barrels, steel proved, choke tubes, most of the stuff that makes Italian shotguns go bang for thousands of rounds.
Posted By: DoubleTake Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/29/20 02:55 PM
Originally Posted By: ClapperZapper
In this months, “The Field”, magazine, there is an article about the FAIR Iside side-by-side shotgun.

Based on Italian build quality, I think it might be a good choice for heavier sporting clays use.

Single trigger, straight grip, Demi block Barrels, steel proved, choke tubes, most of the stuff that makes Italian shotguns go bang for thousands of rounds.


I've got a 16 ga. Iside with 30" barrels. It's not fancy, but it eats any ammo and I've been surprised by how well it shoots for me. The option of an any-ammo 16 gauge w/30" barrels set up as a game gun intrigued me, so I had John Boyd order one and its performance has exceeded my expectations. So much so that when I spotted a decent deal on an AyA #2 16 w/30" barrels I bought it and had it adjusted to fit like the Iside.
Posted By: Chantry Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/29/20 02:59 PM
I don't hunt, so the skeet range is really the only place I can shoot my hammer gun at something. I do it often enough that even a hammer less SxS feels weird, I keep reaching for the under lever that isn't there.

I've gotten the odd looks from other shooters and still do when someone new shows up. I've also gotten quite a few compliments about the gun as well.
Posted By: jlb Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/29/20 09:07 PM
Years ago a friend told me that my scores would be 5% lower with a sxs than an o/u. There was just no question about the truth of the matter. When I signed up at a shoot (hunter class) I asked hem for a 5 target handicap. Didn't work.

jlb
Posted By: moses Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/29/20 10:02 PM
Whenever I shoot clays with my W M Cashmore hammer gun SxS it is handled by other shooters who ask a lot of questions.

When it is my Skimin & Wood pigeon SxS, then they ask to shoot it.
Never seen anyone hit a cay with the Skimin & Wood & it really makes them wonder how I can.

The Beretta shooters gasp at the distances I can bust clays with my Hollis side lock SxS. They say it has a good second barrel. I just laugh. Yes it is the choke on that barrel, but more where it is pointed.

O.M
Posted By: FlyChamps Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/29/20 10:55 PM
Originally Posted By: gold40
Most of my SxS are 50 to 90 years old. I prefer not to put the extra wear from hundreds of clay bird firings on these lovely old SxS shotguns. Its a lot easier to repair a broken part on a recent Beretta than an old Lefever or Remington SxS.


It may be easier to repair the recent Berettas (yes, I own three of them) but I still shoot my Joseph Lang as often as I wish. It was completed March 6, 1866 and was rebarreled in Damascus by James Woodward ~1872. I have no idea how many cartridges were fired by it before I bought it in 2007 but I've shot over 6,000 cartridges since then without a single hiccup. Unless it has an unexpected catastrophic failure I'll fix anything that might break and keep on shooting it until I can't shoot anymore.
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/29/20 10:59 PM
Originally Posted By: gold40
Two Points:

Point 1. Most of us shoot higher scores with an O/U or S/A shotgun. An earlier quote: "It is a given, over twenty years of experience, that I shoot 4-5 birds lower, on a 100 bird round, with my best S X S than with my MX8. If I shoot a great score with a S X S, I would have shot a higher score with the P gun, period."

I too shoot better scores with my Beretta A-400 S/A.

Point 2. Most of my SxS are 50 to 90 years old. I prefer not to put the extra wear from hundreds of clay bird firings on these lovely old SxS shotguns. Its a lot easier to repair a broken part on a recent Beretta than an old Lefever or Remington SxS.

I almost always bird hunt with a SxS. When bird hunting, I probably fire less than 100 rounds a year through an old SxS. As opposed to 100 shots on a round of Sporting Clays.

JERRY GOLDSTEIN


My sentiments, too. Well said, Jerry.

I, too, shoot a FAIR Iside, a .410 with 30" barrels and two triggers. I custom ordered it that way, with my stock dimensions, through Basil Slaughter in Nevada. Great gun. I love it. Doves hate it.

SRH
Posted By: DoubleTake Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/30/20 01:02 AM
Stan, I'm glad to hear you like your Iside. Mine has also been a real performer. Hoping I can shoot this AyA just as well.
Posted By: Shotgunjones Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/30/20 02:44 PM
Hope your FAIRs shoot better than this one:

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2019/7/30/tested-fair-iside-shotgun/

At 40 yards, that left barrel would be almost a full pattern off in POI at 10 o'clock.
Posted By: sxsman1 Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/30/20 03:08 PM
Why is the 28 gauge sxs fitted with 3" chambers?
Is someone making 3" shot shells for 20 gauge?
Pete
Posted By: old colonel Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/30/20 04:00 PM
Originally Posted By: sxsman1
Why is the 28 gauge sxs fitted with 3" chambers?
Is someone making 3" shot shells for 20 gauge?
Pete


I had an Italian O/U 28 ga marked for 3in. In Europe there have been 3in 28ga, I do not know if they are still being made. I have seen pictures of the Ammo online, but never held one in my hand

There has also been 3in 16ga in the United States, I have a box.
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/30/20 09:41 PM
Originally Posted By: Shotgunjones
Hope your FAIRs shoot better than this one:

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2019/7/30/tested-fair-iside-shotgun/

At 40 yards, that left barrel would be almost a full pattern off in POI at 10 o'clock.



That one is cross firing. Mine (.410) did, too, when first tested with 1/2 oz. loads. At a suggestion, from you if I'm not mistaken, I tried the WW 3/4 oz. factory loads. They regulated it perfectly. That suited me to a "T" because it is a hunting gun and I wanted to use the maximum loads in it, it being a .410.

I'll betcha' a heavier, slower load would do the same in the test gun in that article. Slower loads allows the payload to remain in the barrel a tiny bit longer, and the heavier load creates a bit more recoil, both of which helps in bringing the pattern back towards POA, when it is crossfiring.

SRH
Posted By: Shotgunjones Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/30/20 09:55 PM
Look again.

It's not cross firing.

But, I just noticed the test load is ONE OUNCE.

What the hell is wrong with those guys.

A standard 28ga load may bring the POI back where it belongs.
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 04/30/20 10:27 PM
You're right, I was bassackwards. i mixed up POA with POI. My bad.

So right. Backing off to a 3/4 oz. load may make it perfect.

Mine was cross firing, tho'. Doesn't say much for their QC, does it? My Dickinson .410, at roughly $1000 less, was dead on.

SRH
Posted By: DoubleTake Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 05/01/20 12:12 PM
My Iside is spot-on.
Posted By: tw Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 05/02/20 10:25 PM
3" 28ga. rounds are still being made. The ones I've had were 28 gram loads. Some of the Franchi 0/U 'International Skeet' guns in 28 ga. built on 12 ga. frames were chambered 3" and so marked. The 3" 28 ga. cartridges we've been getting recently are Fiocchi's. Cost was roughly $11/box. FWIW, Beretta has also chambered some 28's w/3" chambers. There are probably others. The Franchi's mentioned were made in the late 60's.
Posted By: skeettx Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 05/02/20 10:42 PM
https://ammoseek.com/ammo/28-gauge?sl=3
Posted By: 2-piper Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 05/04/20 01:37 AM
Many years back I was n a gunshop in the foothills of the mountains in Franklin County TN. While there a gentleman came in who had been /deer hunting up in the mountains. He had found a fired 3" 16 gauge shell on the ground & picked it up & brought it in to show. It was a Remington SP shell & marked on the side 3-1½-7½. Apparently Remington had put some out for testing but never marketed them.
Posted By: John Roberts Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 05/04/20 01:23 PM
That was just a 2 3/4" magnum 16 ga. shell, Miller. 3 drams eq., 1 1/2 oz. of 7 1/2 shot. Usually was 4's or 6's.

I will offer this caveat however: to my remembrance, the short magnum 16 had 1 1/4 oz. of shot, so...
JR
Posted By: 2-piper Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 05/04/20 11:08 PM
John, this shell was "Marked" 3". You are correct in that the 2 3/4" 16 gauge magnum only carried 1¼ oz of shot, not 1½ oz. Also, remember I saw this shell, there was no question as to it being a 3" shell.
Posted By: John Roberts Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 05/05/20 12:48 AM
Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification.
JR
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 05/05/20 12:56 AM
Though rare, they're not unheard of here.

Originally Posted By: old colonel
There has also been 3in 16ga in the United States, I have a box.


SRH
Posted By: 2-piper Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 05/08/20 10:57 PM
Prior to WWI, there were many options of available chamber lengths as well as New Primed empties for loading. The 3" 16 gauge was among them. Also, many custom loaders bought the primed empties & loaded them to the customer's specs. These often carried the name of the loader on the top wad.

Stan is your box of the older variety or a newer one. Also, is there any info on the top wad or just the headstamp & possibly side of the case?
Posted By: Stanton Hillis Re: Shooting Clays with a SxS - 05/08/20 11:11 PM
Miller, I don't have the box. Look closely and you'll see I was quoting old colonel.

Maybe he will answer your question.

Best, SRH
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