Well, I am bored and I suspect many of the rest of you are as well. With asthma and a bit of COPD, I'm taking the "social distancing" pretty seriously, until they work out a treatment plan that is consistently effective. Luckily I'm a natural at social distancing, as my friends would say, but still have a little extra time. And starting a thread is more fun than cleaning the house again.

So this thread is going to detail, with photos, the work that has gone into the restoration. It's not quite completed but we can see light at the end of the tunnel so now seems like as good a time as any to start.

3 1/2 years ago I was lucky enough to score a very sharp deal on a Lindner Daly Diamond Quality model 275 in 12 gauge. My original thread can be viewed here:

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=459551&page=2

When I bought the gun, I knew it had a significant dent across both the barrels. A door slam or something that got them both. After consulting with CJO, a member here with outstanding gunsmithing skills as anyone who knows his work will attest, we decided the risk/cost equation was worth it.

However when I received the gun, despite being told it was in "good working order" but for the barrel dent, I found it had a broken ejector rod. A few brief emails back and forth with the vendor, a gun shop, resulted in the hoped-for response. A significant amount of the purchase price was refunded to cover the cost of a high quality repair of the ejectors by a smith who knew what he was doing. A very fair outcome in my opinion. An offer to return for full refund was also made and left as my choice.

Early in 2017 I delivered the gun to Claudio. With gun in hand he gave it a good once over, noting some of the obvious areas that needed attention. When it came time to give him instructions, I simply said "Claudio, repair it as you would one of your own. With as much attention to detail as you see fit for a gun of this quality." I realized this was a rather open ended description for the scope of work I wanted done but Claudio has worked on a number of my guns and over the last 10 years consider myself lucky to have found both a double gun mentor as well as a good friend in Claudio. I trust him.

For those who don't want to go back to the old thread, here are some of the original photos I was looking at when I made the decision to buy the gun. To my eye it looked used but not abused. Not much left in the way of case colours and the finish on the barrels could charitably be described as "worn".

You can see in this picture that the forend had lost its horn tip:

The wood seemed like it might be pretty good and there was no indications of cracks or other problems with it.

And it had the original butt plate. Yay!

The details of the gun start off with a estimated date of production in the 1902 - 1905 range. It is a Charles Daly (Lindner made) Diamond Quality model 275.

Overall weight is 7 pounds 8 ounces with 30" barrels that weigh 3 pounds 10 ounces. The barrels had an original choke constriction of .048 in both barrels. Claudio promised to coach me on long range shooting when I raised the subject of opening them up to just full and full. LOL.

The chambers on the gun measure 2 5/8". The LOP is 14 1/4" with a DAH of 2 1/4" and a DAC at 1 3/8.

My next post will start to detail the work done to the barrels, with pics of the work in progress. Just working on organizing the photos that go along with the posts.

Edit: We changed our minds. We decided the barrels will be one of the last things we cover.

nice lookin ole gon...as is...

fix the barrels, replace the forend tip...

otherwise, leave it alone...that patina is to nice to be destroyed by refinishing...hope its not too late...

CB, I remember reading that thread and being envious of that purchase. I still am. Nice gun and looking forward to seeing some "after" pics.

Good thought Ed. However there is patina and there is just built up crud.

My original plan for the action was to leave it as it was. I like that look. Especially on extensively engraved guns....you can really see the engraving. However, a little time spent in the ultrasonic cleaner revealed something better. Pics will come when we get to that point and you'll see what I mean.

I think I'm going to be envious of myself until it comes time to pay for all the hard work bringing it back. LOL

Not that I have always followed this advice but hopefully I have learned a bit.....if one is going to dump money into a restoration, it needs to be a high original quality gun bought for a steal to make the numbers work out. But whether above or below water, I don't plan on selling this one so it doesn't really matter to me.

Nice candidate for a restoration, James. Good choice, IMO.

One suggestion. Shoot her for a year, or four, before you ream any constriction out of those barrels, from one who has regretted doing so.

SRH

Stan, no plans whatsoever to open the chokes. Besides, Claudio won't let me even if I wanted to.

So here are a few before shots showing the forend wood and tip, trying to highlight the problems. First and most obvious is the missing horn. Second is the very thin "bead" of wood that runs along the edges had been cracked off in spots.

And here are a few shots of the process of solving those specific problems:

Yup. Standard dimensions don't fit me very well, so I follow this the best I can as well. I had 5 of my 7 restocked and one I just tossed a pad on. The only one I've left original is my grand dad's Elsie.

So here's what the action looked like when I first took delivery:

Here are some pics of the action as it was in the process of being stripped down for cleaning. CJO said it was as dirty and crud filled as any gun he has torn down.

And then, by the magic of time (overnight) and an ultrasonic cleaner, here are the various action components with 115 years of crud removed:

Wow!!

In this pic you can see how the little leaf spring on the left has lost some of it's spring and curvature when compared to the one on the right. That will require a little work getting it back into the correct shape. Perhaps a bit of laser welding to get that thicker tip back and then re-tempering.

And in this picture, you can see the metal Claudio has added to the hook this morning using his laser welder. The barrels were a tad loose and this gives him the metal needed to file it up and get them nice and tight again.

Quite a bit of color underneath the crud. Very nice.

Ken

Wow, night and day difference.

Beautiful! Thank you for this and previous post, your first post helped convince me to seek out a decent Lindner myself. Mine is just a 185 1907 and currently with Mr Dennis Smith. I get mine back in August. Keep it coming! Many thanks.

It is amazing what a good sonic cleaning will often reveal. My side lock Sauer from about 1895 had little visible color before cleaning. Afterward it was covered with brilliant color! Well done! canvasback.

Canvasback, That is beautiful and inspiring. Were you surprised at how much color popped following the ultrasonic bath? I never would have guessed.

I know I was stunned when Claudio sent me the pics yesterday morning. Never would have believed it. CJO may have had an inkling there would be some but even he was surprised by how much appeared.

And Joe, as noted in the Sauer thread of a few days ago, I have a Sauer side lock from about 1895 as well. I hadn't planned on it but it will be going in the ultrasonic bath to see what appears on its surface. As you described yours, mine is the typical uniform silver grey.

BTW, I would like to make it clear, it is CJO who is doing the work. Not me. I'm hamfisted and save my efforts for wall hangers.

Nice gun James and you picked a fine craftsman to work with in CJO.

It always amazes me the color that can be hidden under oxidized oil and the amount on your gun was certainly a surprise.

Enjoy it in good health. Those Daly guns are beautifully made.

James, is that weakened spring in the right lock? I've found that to be the case in most all doubles I've had to replace springs in. The right barrel just gets shot so much more, by the majority of people.

Your pics have really opened my eyes about how much surface crud and oxidation can be removed with an ultrasonic cleaner. I never knew.

Best, SRH

Congrats on the progress, great pictures.

Stan, IIRC that sear spring is from the right lock. If that's not correct or I make any other mistakes along the way, I expect CJO to be along at some point to correct me. Lol

I have a friend who knows Dennis Smith well and I have seen up close some of his fantastic work. You'll have to post some before and after pics when your gun gets back in your hands. I'm positive you'll be very pleased.

What do you use in your Ultra Sonic Cleaner? How long do you run the ultra sonic for?

in ter resting...

i expected that i'm not the only person who is suddenly in the market for an ultrasonic rig....those case colors...completely hidden, but still there, are a powerful motivation for me...

colors like that would cost hundreds of dollars, not to mention the risks associated with the process. if a serious cleaning can bring them back...wow.

I use an ultra sonic all the time. You will find hidden colors but very rarely to this degree. I have cleaned hundreds of guns in mine and have yet to find one with that much hidden color. That said, if you buy an ultra sonic cleaner I highly doubt you will regret the decision.

That�s not going to happen.
If the colors weren�t there in the first place, they aren�t going to be revealed.

Spic and span and hot water works as well as anything in an ultrasonic cleaner for firearms actions. Simple Green and water works too.

My ultrasonic cleaner has 8 minute cycles, and I routinely do it four or five times until the water comes out clear. I change the water after each couple cycles.
Unbelievable what comes off.

But, it will be so clean when you get done you absolutely must relubricate it, for fear of rusting. And the steel will be quite hot if you use near boiling water.

Some ultrasonic cleaners have heaters, a good feature. It can also do a good job on brass for reloading, but I�d make sure the cleaning solution is okay, as it may differ for ferrous and non ferrous.

I went the ultrasonic route a few years ago. I bought a fairly large capacity version for cleaning brass of BP fouling. It was a seemingly good deal on Ebay. But it turned out to be a bust. The thing is so weak, that even with the heater running full blast and the unit cranked up to max its ability to do much of anything is pretty limited. So, buyer beware, not all good deals are good deals (I know, that's not exactly big news).

Mine is an L&R brand, outrageously costly new, I bought mine used on ebay minus the basket. All in I think I have about 275$ in it, not cheap but it has been used steadily for the last 17 years by me it still does a great job. I use a diluted gun cleaning solution, Chem-Crest 235, costly stuff but it lasts forever if you use it diluted.

I bought a used L&R off of eBay several years ago, wouldn't be without one. A way to test the efficacy of a used one is to drop a piece of kitchen grade aluminum foil in it, you should see holes in the foil within 5 minutes.

I have s/n 383 Winchester Hi Wall, the colors after the UC bath were stunning, but only in the protected spots, the exterior was still gray, just clean. If the case colors are worn off no amount of cleaning brings them back.

I purchased a fairly inexpenive new one on ebay and it may well fall in the too weak to do anything although the reviews were good. I consider it fairly large and the receiver easily fits. It takes a long time to heat up and I assume the heat is something I want to use to clean the metal. I also purchased the Chem-Crest 235. Is an hour usually long enough running the cleaner on high heat. It does buzz pretty loudly.

Thank you CZ for starting the dedicated ultrasonic cleaner thread. Certainly surprised me at the level of excitement generated. This will likely be my last post of the subject....a before and after.
Before:


After:

As mentioned yesterday the barrels were a little loose. So as seen in the picture posted earlier, Claudio used his laser welder to build up the metal on the hook so he had something to work with. Then he uses a scraper to shape the hook to fit the barrel.







He's aiming for a close, tight fit, but not all the way.

Then it's time to blacken down the barrel face:



Until full contact is reached.



A little work is also applied to the locking bolt surfaces and then it's all as good as new.

Would it be asking too much for Claudio's full name and contact info?
JR

John I think you can PM him by going to member here CJO. In fact I know you can.

Remarkably beautiful gun and really look forward to each new posting of progress and procedure.

John...just sent you a PM

CJ

This makes me really excited to get my Lindner back from Dewey V. I'll be ecstatic if it has half the case colors yours does!

Got it, Claudio. Thanks.
JR

Okay, today's post is a little followup on the forend.

When I first started this thread I posted a few pics showing the rough condition of the forend wood, including the missing horn tip. I followed those up with a few more shots showing both the installation and rough finishing of the new piece of horn and also the grafting on of slivers of wood so the bead edge could be reshaped. Today's posts will see the completion of the forend with the exception of finish.

First some shaping and sanding.


Followed by fine polishing:


Very happy with the final result:


Then, a little work on the bead edge. Here is Claudio making sure the edges have the proper curvature:


A bit more work and then we get the perfect fit:


Here's a close up to see a section of the repaired bead:


All ready now for application of finish:

Great pictures cback, really nice project.

James the gun is spectacular.

I am really enjoying this thread and thank you for posting such a detailed thread on a restoration.

If this gun doesn't make you want a Lindner Daly I don't know about your taste in guns....what beautiful piece....

So looking forward to dropping some ducks at Delta Marsh this fall with it. Covid better be over. Lol

Absolutely beautiful work so far, and enjoying the post update. Why yes, it does make me want a Linder!
Karl

Do we know how many of this era Lindner/Day's were made?

I have a small data base I�ve collected on about 50 Lindner HAL over pistols hammerless guns. Those are post the 1893 German proof laws changes. Around the time of the new proof laws and the switch to the HAL touchmarks, Lindner appears to have started a new serial numbering sequence. The lowest number I have is in the 200s. So I don�t know if he restarted at 1 or 100. Or something else. The highest number I have is around 2500.

Others here may have more pertinent information.

So my guess would be around 3000 or a bit less from 1893 until he closed his doors in 1914.

There is a much more complete data base I don�t have easy access to that has well over 500 guns but it covers the pre 1893 period and may include Prussian Daly guns made by others.

Lovely shotgun. Really enjoying seeing the progression.

Thanks for doing this, Canvasback. Magnificent work by a true artisan.
JR

My pleasure John. I know a lot here do their own work so I was a little concerned it would be a little �been there, done that�. But Claudio�s work speaks for itself, as does Lindner�s. And I knew this is something I would like to see.

CB, You have a great project here and will soon have a great gun to use. I suspect on an undertaking like this, you've enjoyed the gun all along but more so as each step unfolds and confirms the faith you launched from. Nowadays, work like this reminds us what is possible and gives us a glimpse of what normal life has to offer when we get back to it. Thank you.

Bill, you probably don't have to wait. I'd bet you could go to the range every day if you felt like it, and if this project was F/F, you might even take it out for spring turkey. The only thing on hold is tofu lattes and conventions, no big deal.

Thanks Bill.

Craig, more on this later in the thread but the starting point for the chokes was .048/.048 A buddy's Superfox is only marginally tighter at .050/.051

I know that during the repair of the barrels, to remove all trace of the dents, a slight honing was required but I believe the chokes would still be a very tight extra full choke. While I want to use it on waterfowl, I'm hoping it becomes death to turkey. Not this season though. Opens in one week. Can't wait.

I probably missed it, but I didn't realize the gun was choked like that. There's so much conversation about opening chokes up, glad you're leaving this one alone.

I can understand someone wanting a big hammer, but if the dekes are working half way decent, an ounce and an eighth of bismuth at 1200 or maybe 1250fps would be my thinking for plenty of fall duck medicine. It's what I'm planning this fall for a F/F gun that I just started shooting again at some informal clays for the first time in about twenty-five years. I guess I'm a little bored? Enjoying the write up, I'm following along.

Craig, that's exactly the kind of load I'm thinking of, although I still have some TM in 1 1/4 oz. Looking forward to patterning it.

One thing I absolutely love about this gun, other than its intrinsic beauty overall, is the figure and color of the wood. It's my idea of perfect in beauty. The red/brown color, the black mineral streaking throughout make this my idea of "as good as it gets". You cannot go buy wood with that color anymore. There's plenty out there that will rival and even surpass the figure, but that color wood is long gone.
JR

[quote=Recoil Rob]Do we know how many of this era Lindner/Day's were made?
If my memory serves correctly, according to Ken Georgi,the current custodian of the Daly list which contains data on several hundred Dalys (mostly Lindners), the highest recorded number in the first numbering sequence (pre 1892-3)is #3950. Lindner guns made during this period were marked with a crown over crossed pistols. Remember these are Lindner numbers not Daly numbers. Lindner also made guns for several other American retailers but most went to Daly. The first 200+ or so numbers appear not to be reused. lindner started the second set of numbers in 1892-3.
So, from 1868-1870 to 1892-3,(the first number period), Lindner, including Georg,the father and Hendrick, the son, numbered less than 4,000 guns.
The second numbering sequence began in 1892-3. )It gets pretty sketchy exactly when. The German government claimed the crown symbol for it's own proof mark in 1892. With the crown no longer available, Lindner began using "HAL" over crossed pistols although there are reports of guns marked only with crossed pistols during that transitory period.
It appears the the second numbering sequence did not start at "1" but at 200+. Guns marked with a crown or no crown over crossed pistols have been reported with second series numbers.
The second series of numbers ended at less than #2700 in 1917 when German shipping was denied access to the US. So, less than 2500 Lindner guns were produced with second series numbers The last couple of hundred guns produced were mostly single barrel trap guns. The one thing that is clear is that regardless of when it was made, a Lindner made gun was made to the highest standards and priced accordingly.

Craig, I do hope to put in some range time soon. We're lucky here to be out from the worst of the plague. As for turkey hunting, I have no experience or skill, but I like knowing they're out there. I keep busy inventing things to do in the shop. I'm winding up a percussion case adaptation and gritting my teeth to launch some bluing work I've put off for months. Claudio's work helps me remember why I enjoy this pastime.

Jon S, If I understand you correctly you are suggesting no second series serial number (HAL over pistols) has been found below 200?? My data base lowest is #293.

The highest serial number gun on my data base is #2472, an almost 9 pound Diamond Quality model 275 ejector gun with 32" barrels. If what you are suggesting is true (no reason to doubt it) that might have been among the last of the SxS.

Canvasback,
Yup, I believe that if you find a Lindner made gun with a serial # of less than 200 it will be a large Damascus barreled hammergun made in the early 1870's. I'm told that someone on this forum reported #243 several years. We would have to see the gun to assign a year to it.

With respect to #2472, I actually own that gun and a magnificent beast it is! Amazing engraving. The latest number of a gun that I own is #2517, a SBT Diamond Sextuplet. Nobody knows the number of the last Lindner made but I would wager it is a SBT put together from parts during the war or shortly there after.
I have seen (but stupidly did not record) a Daly SBT with HAL over crossed pistols with a 26xx serial number PLUS another 5 digit #! Sauer? Schiller?

Jon, on a Diamond Quality the nicest quality engraving Ive come across is #444, a 10 gauge. I figured it is roughly 8 years earlier than mine with similar style and coverage but the execution just blew me away. This gun may be my first Lindner....it won't be my last.

Would love to handle 2472. Mine surprised me so much with how light it felt before I weighed it.

At the other end of the scale, missed a 12 ga Featherweight due to stupidity in December, #1057. Will try not to do that again.

You know you're always welcome to borrow my featherweight...

Well, time for a little update. Progress is going well. The next few posts will focus on the stock. And will reveal some interesting tidbits.

First, it was clear the initial shield needed to be reset into the wood. So out it came.





Then it's time to get the old finish off and see what gets revealed:


Seems clear we will have to come up with a replacement for the little grip nipple that was kind of a hallmark for Lindner:

Here's a couple pictures of the inletting and you can see the little wood bridge that had come loose in time. Claudio will be getting that properly back where it should be.

What kind of glue in that crack?

It will be a great looking gun again soon.

Now here is the interesting part. Even masters like Lindner can make mistakes.

In these three photos you can see evidence first of a screw up with the original hole that was repaired with a plug and a second crack at drilling the hole properly. Apparently second time was the charm. As well, you can see where somehow a sliver of wood got damaged and was replaced, just to the left of the hole in one pic and above in the other.

Notice the inletting required for the sears. That mortise is under cut by hand, crazy difficult inletting and and best pantograph in the world is not much help putting that cut in. With the correct fixturing you could make the cut on a machine with multiple set ups but you would have to make a bunch of stocks to make it worth the time. Simply amazing craftsmanship.

Looking at the insides being repaired reminds me of what they say about watching the law or sausage being made...Geo

Brent, perhaps this photo shows it better. It's not a crack. It's a mineral line in the wood.

I jumped to a conclusion too quickly. Quite a well defined mineral line. It is an interesting project for certain.

As is usually the case, things get revealed when you take apart a 115 yo gun. In this case, once the finish was stripped, a lot more fiddleback has shown up than either Claudio or I expected.

to be able to watch as something like this happens would be like a kid on christmas morning...

Absolutely, I'm really enjoying this!
Karl

James and Claudio ,this is a great thread !

There you are!.....glad to hear from you
Yup we both decided it was a good way to keep our sanity.
Only two of us at my place but she�s get�n crowded inside...if you get my drift

Good thing I have the shop......

Agreed Claudio ,the shop is a great hiding place !....I have nothing as inspiring as the Daly on the bench at the moment ,just bread and butter field grade checkering to clue up a bunch of refinish work .

first time I gutted a Linder Daly I fell in love ,this just makes me want one more

I almost fell over reading your post. I have an early 10 Ga George Lindner hammer gun in the same condition. Maybe all that oil the Germans used on their stocks at the end of season dissolved the glue leading to loss of the horn inlays? I just finished the missing forend and grip cap pieces with photos at the various stages if anyone is interested. What oil are you planning on using on the wood?

Rick

Well Claudio was busy over the weekend. And probably a bit last week. So we have a few more photos and a bit more to the story today. Time for a little work on the stock.

First, the oval needed to be reset. As you can see from this pic, it had raised itself over time.



So it got pulled out using a little heat and a lot of care:





The hole it fits in was cleaned up with a little careful sanding:



And the oval fitted neatly back into it's place:

Next, it was time to address the damaged grip insert. Here it is as it was:



And here is the new insert, in place.

Edit - Correction Claudio and I were unsure of the original material. My thinking was that it was made from gutta percha, a reasonably common material back in those days derived from certain trees, much like rubber is. Gutta percha was used as the cover on golf balls back in the day, prior to the use of balata rubber and then Surlyn, a man made material mostly still in use today. I'm familiar with gutta percha from my many years in the golf industry. A guy we used to work with in the US invented Surlyn. Golf equipment manufacturing......another reservoir of completely untapped and useless info stored in my cranium. Claudio texted me last night to let me know that he was able to rehab the original material. So it is not a replacement but the original item brought back from the dead!

The butt plate needed some attention after 115 years. Lots of little dings:



So it got some fill and shaping:

The stock as a whole had some dents and dings steamed out. The damaged inletting was repaired. The teardrops were picked up and balanced in shape and position with each other (Claudio didn't think Herr Lindner's tear drops were quite up to par!). And then the wood was lightly sanded, wisked and bleached.







It's now ready to take on a little colour:

Here it is on the bench with the colour application still wet:






Hanging overnight at the bench:



The next day it is out in the sun for a few hours and then Claudio will set it aside for a few days. Later this week it will be ready for it's first coat of finish.

That will be quite a nice gun soon.

I enjoy your posts on this Lindner more than any others on the BBS at this time! Thanks for taking the time to share.

Really glad you like it Joe. Claudio and I were hoping it would be well received. When this one is done, we have another story to tell regarding a mid 1930's Purdey.

What do you mean by bleaching the wood?

Also thank you for posting such a worth project. I'm always checking the blog often to see if you have added new material.

Beautiful gun!

Oxalic acid. Cleans stains, particularly those caused by iron, without bleaching out the wood.

Thanks for the updates cback. I keep wondering about the oval stock inlay, only a curiosity. The two retaining pins on it look surprisingly long. Can you tell if the corresponding pin inletting is square to the full depth?

I can't answer that Craig but I can tell you Claudio pointed out that the oval pins should not be tapered like that. Increases the ease with which they can break free and slide out. As we saw by the condition at acquisition.

It's interesting to me how highly regarded Lindner guns are (as are numerous other makes) and yet how easily a skilled craftsman like Claudio can see elements that could have been better. And I don't mean things that would have added dozens of hours to production. Just simple, straightforward things like the oval pins.

Me too. Down with politics. Political disagreements here make folks with a common interest who ought to be friends into enemies who despise each other...Geo

I have not logged into the board in a long while and just read this entire thread. This is a wonderful thread and very informative. Well done on all accounts! I am excited to see more progress updates as well as the finished product.

Scott

May I inquire as to the stain that Claudio used.... alkanet based?
Thank you!
Best regards,
JBP

Yes sir... good old red root dye

Very nice work, CJO. This thread harkens back to the good o� days of DGS. It�s a pleasure to follow a thread like this. Thanks fellas.

Seeing as none of us can go to the movies, I thought I would do the DG version of "Coming Soon!".

While lots of great work has been documented here to date, we still have to cover the repair of the broken ejector rod and the work to get the ejectors working and timed properly, the repair of the leaf spring noted earlier, all of the barrel work including relaying the ribs, dent removal and bluing, application of the slacum finish (that will be like watching paint dry ) and a myriad of other little details that need attention.

One thing is clear. While the major finishes (barrels and wood) are important in the appearance of the finished product, it is the minute attention to detail at first not obvious that separates a good restoration from a great one. Hopefully we are watching a great one unfold here.

Well we have a little surprise today. This is an example of why I like to work with Claudio.

You will recall that over a week ago, I did a few posts detailing the finishing of the forend, in particular the replacement horn tip. The forend, propped up against the peg board wall by Claudio's bench, was deemed complete and ready for finishing.

However, every time time I spoke to him this past week, he would mention the forend. Something was nagging at Claudio and he couldn't quite put his finger on it. Today I got the following update in his own words:

"Gazing at the forend horn tip in front of me, something didn't sit right. I couldn't put my finger on it but something about the shape and curve was off.....The more I looked the more it bothered me. Then I saw it! The original chequering was uneven and the wood curvature was slightly different from left to right as the latch was not perfectly centred. So this curve carried onto the forend horn tip. So I reworked/shaped the horn tip so as to be more pleasing to the eye. Now it's not bothering me as much......"

So Claudio spent some time revisiting that "finished" forend and getting it right.

CB,
Great craftsmanship, and a good eye for perfection!
Karl

A beautiful job of polishing that tip. Horn?

Yup, it's horn.

Well, when I last posted here Claudio had been working away on getting the wood back into shape. Today we are going to cover a completely different type of work....the ejectors. Although the first bit to see is that hallmark of Lindner...the little cats eyes screws on either side of the forend so there is a bit of wood involved. Then we move onto pure metal work.

So as we find so often on these old guns, it seems that someone who shouldn't got a hold of a screw driver and went to work:



A bit of overzealous inletting meant a sliver of wood needed to be inserted. You can see the repair if you look closely at the finished picture. Lower left of the cats eye. Claudio ended up having to make one new screw and time the other properly. An interesting note, the two screws are of different size to ensure they are not mixed up. At some later point he will properly engrave the head of the new screw.

Next come the ejector rods. You may recall that I discovered one of the rods was broken despite assurances from the seller that all was well. And that as a result I received a partial refund designed to cover the cost of repair. Thank God!!!! LOL

This is what arrived:


A little laser welding:





Followed by a lot of careful hand shaping:

Now the rest of this ejector work is the kind of thing that I think (after much experience) put people like my friend Ted off messing around with vintage guns. I'm not there yet. LOL

So as Claudio was inspecting the rest of the ejector system, other issues that needed to be addressed with this kind of restoration became apparent. I'm sure some was caused by the use of the gun after the rod was broken, some by other ways and some just by age and normal wear and tear.

First the ejector body (is that the correct term?) needed some attention. Looking closely, a number of stress cracks were discovered. Additionally Claudio felt the whole unit had been hardeded to the point of being a tad brittle. So some judicious spot annealing was done.





A little attention again with the laser welder and voila!

Now we turn to the ejector hammers. Clearly the right side has suffered damage:









But, a bit of welding, a bit of stoning and a bit of polishing can work wonders:

Really enjoying this post. Thank you. The craftsmanship is phenomenal!

Now we can see the damage that the right ejector sear has suffered, twisted and ground off. It's quite messed up:









First the damaged piece gets heated and buried to anneal:





It's now pretty soft but once polished a number of stress fractures reveal themselves:

amazing!

Now a decision has to be made. Can we go ahead with this part as it is or are those stress cracks a significant problem. For both Claudio and me, it's an easy one to make. The part must be replaced. So Claudio corrected the shape of the original, faulty piece to create a template for the crafting of the new piece.

As he was getting things ready to make the new piece Claudio notices that while the ejector sear spring on his personal Lindner Daly Featherweight is one piece, the sear spring on this Diamond Quality is two piece:

Now I am quoting Claudio directly.

"To make the new sear I used 01, didn't have any 1" rod so I centred a square piece big enough to get the diameter required to a slave bar and turned it on the lathe."

More from Claudio:

" Got rid of the inside sharp radius on the new part...no need for that, so I dare say this new part will probably be more durable than the original."





The hammer "bend" was damaged as well and needed correction:




The new part will need additional fitting but it is close enough for now. More to come!

Canvasback, this work of Claudio�s is phenomenal. As is your participation in the restoration, agreeing and paying the price. Please keep the updates coming!

Kind words Joe, thank you on behalf of Claudio and myself. I know we are enjoying our parts in it and both of us are gratified there has been such an enthusiastic reception here.

Canvasback, I am eagerly awaiting each daily update on my friend Claudio's work. I can see Claudio, arising from bed in the morning, rereading the story about the "message to Garcia" before taking that first file stroke. I'm just glad that all of my Lindners are extractor guns. Bill Murphy in MD.

Thanks Bill. That gave me a chuckle. I know what you mean about extractors! LOL. And when hunting, I prefer extractors. Oh well, in for a penny, in for a pound.

Your friend John is encouraging me to find my way to Maryland so he can show me some of his Lindners.....encouragement I'm taking to heart. With any luck we may have a chance to meet.

James

Hello Bill,
Hope you�re doing well, miss my yearly trip down to Ernie�s and seeng all my friends.... so I�m eagerly looking forward to the next time.

You keep well now...

Claudio

Such a great thread. I got to meet Claudio last year and was blown away with his work. I also very much appreciated his choice of hunting dog.

James, I hope to see this gun in person one day and look forward to shaking both your hands in congratulations.

Thanks for this ride, James. It's a magnificent gun.

I have really enjoyed this post. Thanks to all and for all of the good pictures.

I am surprised at all of the things, metal things, wrong with the gun. The almost universal opinion is that these guns are built to the highest standards.

James, you and Claudio should come down to Maryland together. Jon and I live about fifteen minutes apart and we can all get together with the "Official Custodian" of the Bill Wise files, who lives fairly close in Virginia. It's been a few years since we had a Lindner show and tell. The National Firearms Museum is about forty minutes away from my home, closer to Jon's home. The Robert Petersen Collection is worth the visit. Bill Murphy

Glad you are enjoying it Daryl. When you say "wrong with it" are you referring to problems developed from wear and abuse over time or as originally built?

The items "fixed" by CJO are found on several pieces of the gun. One cannot tell if they are only from wear and abuse, or if the original parts might have been soft, brittle, or whatever. I have owned quite a few of the Daly Lindners, and other post war sxs's by Daly and have not seen so many parts worn and broken. Beautiful gun, though.

Daryl, I should let Claudio answer the question more fully but my quick response is that it was a gun regularly used in an area of Canada where guns are tools. And it's been around for 115 years. So things happen. I think the biggest issue is the broken ejector rod and what appears to be subsequent damage to the ejector system. The rest (other then the dents in the barrels) appear to me to be unsurprising wear and tear on a gun that got used. This was no safe queen.

Bill, what a generous offer. You know a trip to Maryland to ogle Lindners will be high on my priority list as soon as the border opens again. And Claudio has mentioned to me that he has missed his trips down south the last year or two. Did not realize the National Firearms Museum was so close to you and John but you are in one of the few areas of the US I have spent zero time in. Looking forward to correcting that. Thank you.

Beautiful gun..Beautiful work

This is a shoe-in for 2020's best thread.

Makes me wonder about the true condition of all those "good acquisitions" in my safe.

Yes.....definitely all of the above but also appears that someone has been at it, fortunately or not the damage to the barrels was enough to cause them to put it away for good, in hope of perhaps having it repaired at a later date, guess that date never came till now....and under new ownership.

CJ

So now we move on from the ejectors to having a go at the sear spring I showed you back on the first page:



After an hour or two of work to try to repair the spring we had this:



Claudio thinks it was buggered by someone at some point, although he's not sure why. Suspects they might have been trying to change the trigger pull without really understanding what they were doing.

I think we can all agree.....crap! So it's time to make a new one. To start, a small piece of spring steel gets annealed and attached to a slave plate, squared:



Then the inside and outside of the dovetail insert gets milled, a few thousands oversize to allow proper hand fitting:



Stone the inside while the piece is properly supported.



Mill the double spring taper:

Next it's time to heat and shape:





Then start the close (press) fitting:



Followed by a lot of stoning and polishing:

And we're done! I can't tell which is the new one, can you?



Here's a direct quote from Claudio...." As far as I'm concerned these are some of the most cleverly designed and intricate little springs. It's usually one of the parts I admire most when I look at one of these great Prussian doubles. I have often looked at them and said to myself...hope I never have to make one. Now I think, I hope I never have to make one again! "

Wonderful work.

Couldn�t the Prussians have thought up a more difficult way to have a sear spring. This is way too simple! Yeah, right......

Which begs the question "Why did they do it this way?" We know they were expert gun-makers, if we mere mortals can see there was a simpler way to have a sear spring why did they do it this way? Was it more to do with the tools at hand being different back then or thought processes having evolved?

It was once explained to me as "gunsmith gothic". Things that would only be seen and appreciated by another smith. If you can, why not show off a bit?

CJO, that's some impressive work!
Thanks for sharing, James, and am looking forward to seeing this Lindner in person.
JB

John, once the ranges are open again and the gun is finished, I'm thinking we'll need to get the group together again for a round of clays at Galt. To make it fair everyone will have to bring their tightest choked, long barrel gun.

Beautiful thread, beautiful shotgun and beautiful work. Thank you.

Thanks for all your comments.

Got the following from Claudio this morning:

"By the way....I was not quite done yet....most dreadful part was yet to come! Played some spring Russian Roulette (hardening and tempering) this morning and managed to dodge the bullet!".

And I'm glad he did.

Back with another post or two as we (Claudio) march towards the finish line.

First, some cosmetic stuff. As we have all seen in the past, even the best guns get assaulted by those who think they are competent to turn a screw. But we know better. All the screws get a going over to fix the damaged slots. Here is some of the buggered:



Here they are in process:



And here are the finished screws:



I think you'll agree they look a little less butchered!

Then, to add a little colour...some fire bluing to liven up the front and rear triggers. The safety button also gets fire blued.





Along with a little charcoal bluing of the top lever:

Next, the runs inside the action get a going over. They are stoned sleek and flat to allow the mainspring to float back and forth. This activates the ejectors and Claudio thinks this may have had something to do with the ejector problems because they were pretty rough.



Then, the action gets assembled and final work of ejector timing is done:



First one side, then the other....and after some stoning and fitting...they are just right:



Claudio has done a couple great short videos, most recently of the repaired ejector system in action. However, Photobucket no longer supports video so we are out of luck.

Turning out really sharp. The triggers look cool!

As I've said before, this thread is amazing and very enjoyable to follow.
Karl

Someone, Claudio I imagine, is quite good with the photos as well as the work.

Just curious, does CJO do his own restoration of the engraving or does he send the parts out?

Rob, Claudio does the engraving restoration.

James,
Kudos again for posting meticulous documentation of Claudio's extraordinary workmanship. Can't wait for the next installment!

As we had previously mentioned, Eightbore, myself, Ken and a few other local Prussian Daly owners would look forward to seeing you and Claudio's masterpiece in person when it is convenient.
Stay safe,
Jon

Love this project. It truly cheers me up.

wonderful thread...

So glad to hear so many like the thread. It�s been fun putting it together. But I have the easy job. Claudio is putting in the blood, sweat and tears.

If you are writing the checks, you are doing some heavy lifting too. Cash doesn't grow on trees.

Cool gun, made cooler by this thread.

Close to two weeks since my last update. Claudio had been putting the pedal to the metal on things but had to take a break to attend to some other, pressing work. But he's been back hard at it on the Daly the last couple days and this is the stuff that really gets me excited.

Others may feel differently but I think the heart of any good vintage gun are the barrels. Without good barrels, all else is wasted. And boy did this project ever turn on the barrels. The key work to bring them back really did start several years ago. And nothing else was touched until Claudio and I knew the barrels could be brought back all the way to perfection. (Oops, I'm giving up spoiler alerts).

When acquired the barrels were in rough shape. As mentioned previously, badly dented across both barrels. Ribs popped. Ribs bent. Ribs detached.






As Claudio says "A sad looking muzzle".



And to top it off, the right barrels was bent.




As a result of all this mayhem, the bores were pretty awful, especially the right one.

Removal of the ribs revealed some corrosion and a neat set of perfectly spaced regulating wedges. Of course by this time, even some of those were detached.





The barrels were cleaned, swaged and straightened. The dents were removed. The wedges were replaced in the correct order of size and spacing. They were then regulated with ribs straightened and smoked back on for a perfect fit. Then all were tinned and the ribs relayed.





The barrels were then sent out for just about the only work Claudio does not do himself. He sent them to Stelios Chrysochou of SC Gunworks. Stel in fact was my first vintage gunsmith, the one who opened my eyes about these guns and the person who initially connected me to Claudio. A neophyte like me could not have asked for two better mentors on vintage guns. Stel polished the bores to perfection, removing all trace of the dents and doing so while removing the absolute minimum of metal. Even the chokes, originally at .048 and .048 remain insanely tight!

Once the barrels were back to Claudio they were lightly struck. The objective was to bring them back and in doing so keep them as close to original dimensions as possible. Mission accomplished.







Nice straight bores!

Next we had to wait for some of what Claudio calls "good blackening" weather. Apparently he likes to do that in the great outdoors. Who would argue with results like this:





No oil on the barrels tricks here. This is what I call a mirror finish!

You can go back a few posts and check but the original muzzle wedges were not in great shape. So new ones had to be made.



And then fitted:



And then soldered in and struck flush:



And then the muzzle fancy detail was reproduced:

Going with faux ivory for the beads. I'd like to be able to cross the border (once it reopens) without ivory hassles. So new ones were made.





The front is a screw in while the mid is pressed in.

A very beautiful gun and a beautiful job restoring the gun. Classy.

I love it when a plan comes together!

The bores get a final polish, the lumps and face get dressed.





A little jeweling is always nice...



And now it looks like new, perhaps even better than new.





The end is definitely in sight now. We just need a few more coats of slacum, lovingly applied! Haha

Pretty sweet but I'm beginning to think it may have been easier to start with a truckload of iron ore and a walnut tree trunk.

There would be no problem in border crossing with warthog ivory. I'd even be happy to supply some for a project like this.

Brent, in for a penny, in for a pound!

I'm picking up the wood for my next project on Thursday. I may take you up on the warthog tooth!

Dayem, that's nice!

You are a brave man, there.

Let's see the next project.

Also have some hippo ivory (parts). And then, of course, there are elk ivories, but I don't have any of that to spare.

Pretty sure Ele ivory is legal again on old guns and musical instruments.

Great looking work and a worthy project.

Steve

Looking good!

I love it...

Gorgeous gun James. Thank you again for showcasing Claudio's abilities.

Re the ivory. I was once told by a m/l mentor that walrus ivory is the only kind that never yellows. Anyone know if that is factual?

Keep the pics coming, James. It's better than a pitcher show.

SRH

Interesting. Someone here said exactly the same thing about warthog many years ago.

Stan, we had some walrus ivory at home when I was growing up. Part of a collection of Inuit art my parents had. The ivory yellowed.

Glad you are enjoying the thread. Can�t wait to bring down some cans and mallards this fall.

Thanks, James. So much for my mentor's idea about it.

SRH

I'm kinda partial to GA ivory .............. wild boar hog tusks. When still attached to the donor, it is serious equipment.

SRH

Just found out I have access to mammoth ivory. I think I'll go for that rather than the warthog. But thanks Brent.

CB, Thanks for this series of posts. Few of us get to do this detailed a project ourselves, and it's a treat to see someone's. I just hope now we have a good hatch this spring and some birds to hunt this fall.

You and me both Bill. I'm going to need to bring down some ducks with this gun just as soon as possible! LOL

I'm glad you are enjoying it.

Mammoth is definitely cooler (the implied pun is bad though).

The barrels are really sweet. Whole thing is coming along nicely.

I think it is fair to say that when Claudio is restoring a gun like this Lindner Daly his objective is not to make it like new, but to make it as perfect as a 115 year old gun can and should be. In his words..."Like no one has been there". The objective is not to fool anyone that a restoration has taken place but to do the original craftsmen who built the gun justice. To make the gun today what it should be after 115 years of fine and careful use and care. We all know that is not what happens to most guns, even the fine ones, so the restorer's job is to make up for those missing years of careful care.

Claudio decided not to re-cut the chequering. However, they did have many decades of built up crud. So he created a tool of his design specifically to help him carefully clean the chequering while absolutely minimizing new cutting.

Here he is working on the cheek pieces....30 LPI



And here it is, finished:



He's completed and re-assembled the forend now, including cleaning the chequering. I think we are very close to the finish line.

Well, all good things must come to an end. And we have arrived at the end of the Lindner Charles Daly Diamond Quality Model 275 restoration by CJO. It's been a fun ride, you have all been good letting me blather on. But I think at this point I'm going to let Lindner's and Claudio's work speak for itself. Thanks so much Claudio.....It's been a real treat working with you.

WOW! Just wow!

Thanks for the ride cback. Really nice gun, great work and pictures that did the project a service. It doesn't have to be a big pile, hope the gun gets in a picture with a pair of big northern ducks.

CB, Congratulations. You've achieved a milestone. Thanks for taking pains to share it with us.

Sirs, an odyssey, a time-travel, a compelling story, an object of engineering art, and a learning experience...plus a real joy in these times. Thanks CB and Claudio. Wish there were a u-tube video to chronicle the trip.

Thanks for sharing, what a masterpiece and Claudios work is amazing. Now you need a couple dozen hand made decoys to hunt over? Paper bismuth shells and a wise old dog. Stuff dreams are made of. GREAT POST!

This has been the most enjoyable thread I have seen on the BBS in many years, perhaps ever! Thanks Canvasback for all the time you spent sharing it with us.

Jtplumb has exactly the right idea.

There are no flies on that gun. It would be something to hunt with her.

I'll say it again. That is one magnificent shotgun.

What's next?

Haha! Well, it�s time to sell my house to cover the bill from Claudio. Just kidding.

I�m hoping to put the icing on the cake of this thread by having some pictures of me, the gun and a few big northern canvasbacks in the bag taken at my duck hunting property at Delta Marsh in Manitoba. That will have to wait until late September or early October.

I must say, I love this process. This is the one I have gone deepest on but it sure isn�t my first and won�t be my last. But sanity must prevail and one a year is more than enough. We will have to wait until around next spring for the next story to be told. The current plan is to resurrect a dilapidated old Sauer sidelock. It will get a new stock as the current one is not worth trying to save. And the work on that gun will probably be a bit of a collaboration with Claudio doing the metal work and my good friend and member here Chris Dawe doing the woodwork. But, that�s just the plan as it sits today. Always subject to change until I send the gun off and pull the trigger on the project.

But Claudio and I have some ideas for other threads to keep you entertained.

Claudio and I were hoping people would enjoy this thread and we are both so pleased that turned out to be the case. Thank you.

Well done Claudio - fantastic job ! ,its come a long way since I first seen it posted at the dealer - the discovery of the original finish on the receiver and the condition of the checkering were an incredible stroke of good fortune or a thank you from fate - to your hours and hours and hours of work on that gun ,everything ties in perfectly

Thanks for sharing a great journey. Fantastic shotgun. You will enjoy it.

Magnificent!...Geo

CB,
Thanks for all the posts, I really enjoyed the ride. You have a magnificent gun to show for it!
Karl

The two Canadian gunsmiths mentioned on this site would be my choices for a couple of Parker restocking projects, depending on their availability. Can a pre 1898 shotgun be sent to them in Canada with less than the normal hassles or is "a gun a gun" when shipping across the borders.

Pre-1898 guns can legally be shipped across borders without an importer/exporter according to US law. I am not sure of the specifics for Canada but you still need to clear Customs on both sides and that at times requires a Customs agent which adds a fair bit of cost. You might try contacting these fine fellows and see what they would charge to clear the border, they have been very cost effective for my to use bringing guns out of Canada:

https://www.borderview.com/

Just got a Fox (modern gun) I bought here and seller shipped it through Borderview from Canada. Paid the first of February. Five months is a long wait...Geo

George, I have had one wait like that with a gun headed to our friend Gil a couple years ago. The other times I have used them it has been more like 60 days start to finish, which is fine. However, I spoke to someone today who just did one or two and it was under three weeks.

I don't like it when they are slow but they are the best at marking discreetly the required engraving of importer.

For what it's worth, the Fox I just received has no import mark at all. That's plus to me...Geo

kudos to both of you for a job well done!

Truly a piece of art. congratulatons

George, Borderview did one that took the new owner six months to find. LOL

I think we all think it's a bonus.

I sounds like sending a pre 1899 gun to Canada and getting it back is not any more simple than if it were a modern gun. Am I mistaken?

No permits, FFL holders, back ground checks or markings required for pre-1898 guns. You still need to clear Customs though, which may or may not require a broker.

I don't know if the USPS will do it but I have received guns put into the French postal service and received in Canada through Canada Post. No broker required. Payment of duties and taxes due when package was picked up. Last one was about 3 years ago. I've received about 6 guns that way. Don't know why it would be different unless the USPS won't accept it at point of origin.

Yes, USPS will do it. I received a pre-1898 I. Hollis from Australia via USPS. No hassles, no permits, no background checks.

SRH

I am not sure that is currently the case. Australia and NZ post will no longer move any type of firearm, even antique. I use to get bundles of guns shipped in from NZ that my Post man delivered, no more. It has gotten a lot more complicated to send guns, even antiques, across borders. I now need export permits for most antiques leaving the UK under EU rules, this just in the last year or so, never before.

Steve, if you think that is bad, in 2017 Australia I had to get an export permit to bring my own rifle - that I had built myself brought with me - back home. Seriously most of the Australians, in charge of enforcing the rules did not know them. Australia is pretty much off limits for getting guns out now. Like you, I had them delivered to my door years ago without the slightest problem.

How do "they" know it's a gun in the box, if the sender doesn't put any identifying info on the outside?

SRH

Stan,
You have to declare the contents in order to clear customs.....things are much stricter than they were in the past.

Brent,
I found an AU exporter not long ago and it is doable with some volume, maybe 4-6 guns or so. Shipping costs were not that bad, he would take care of the paperwork on his end, that just leaves import permits and a customs broker over here. The only way to import guns these days is in groups.

Steve

Thanks, Steve.

SRH

That makes some sense. Australian auctions used to be a good place for a guy to find some bargains one at a time. But no more. But I thought it was more than slightly annoying that we had to beg permission to take our own rifles home (but not our dirty laundry, thankfully). No one really seemed to know how to go about that, yet Australia was hosting an international championship match.

Maybe I should start a new thread about international shipping.

OK, I'm gonna look again. Any hints about where they put the one you speak of?...Geo

That could be seriously helpful, if up to date. These things change so fast that it's all but impossible to keep up, unless you are doing it with each country annually. Having it pinned to the top of the forum and updated as needed, wouldn't hurt either.

My apology, James. This was a seriously great thread and I contributed to taking it OT. My bad.

SRH

I guess no one told cback he was supposed to bring the snacks and beer? I'd think this would be one to consider pinning by putting it in the makers forum. I bet the Sauer project will something else.

After waiting 23 pages for someone to ask how a yankee could get a gun to Chris or Claudio, I just figured it was time to ask. Not so off topic after all. Murphy

Bill...just sent you a pm

I�m going to miss this thread. Thanks very much for sharing it with us.

Don't worry---James will have another on the go!!

Steve who is a good customs broker I can use?

I'll send you a pm

Steve

for reasons I don't understand, my last few posts of pics of the completed gun are no longer showing up for me. Don't know if that is the case for others. And I can't sign onto Photobucket to start to address that problem. So am working my way through their (non-existent) support system.

Claudio, I did read your PM. By the way, the Vintagers has been scheduled.

CB, IMHO Photobucket has lost all credibility after their mass shakedown, confiscation of people's images and holding them for ransom. You might want to try shifting to IMGUR or JPGBOX (which I use). They're free.

Gene, I keep thinking about that but shifting is a daunting task.

I'm using imgur. I'd suggest something else.

CB, jpgbox.com has thus far been rock-steady solid since the shakedown - the ransom business by photobucket (the guy who did this and his team have been fired - they had a monopoly at the time - give something free, make a million - and they got greedy - and they destroyed a company).

jpgbox.com is easy and once you use it once or twice, it's simple. You can use it as a vistitor but heck open an "account" (you won't be bombarded by email advertisers). It's free and simple.

I think I�ll spend some time at jpgbox on the weekend.

Brent I looked at Imgur last year and didn�t like what I saw. Interesting you have that perspective as a user of the service. Thanks for chiming in on the subject. Maybe it wasn�t just me.

When the University flushed its servers and pushed us into the commercial clouds I went searching for an alternative hosting system. Imgur was recommended by several so I committed. But it is trying to be the next snapchat or something, and it often will not let me access my photos and presents difficulties in storing and sorting them. I wish I had gone elsewhere but having committed to it, I feel stuck. I need to just cut that damn string and move on.

Even better would be if Dave would drag this forum kicking and screaming into the 21st century and host photos directly like most modern forums do these days.

Brent,
You share the feelings of most of us here!
Karl

IMGBB is easiest to use.

imgur works great for me, I just log in, upload my pics and link them to the board. It took me too long to figure out the options for sizing them but once discovered it could not be any easier, YMMV.
Steve

I've stayed out of this thread... although I immensely enjoyed seeing CJO's considerable talents displayed on the great resurrection of a fine gun once again. The finished product makes me envious.

But the comment above is simply too funny, even considering the source... especially given the tagline that directly follows it. That's kind of like calling the cops for help whille carrying a sign suggesting that the police should be defunded.

Liberalism on display!

BTW, I'm always amazed at the frequent complaining about the alleged difficulty of posting photos on this site. It is child's play. And I learned that it is also quite simple to post pics here directly from a cell phone.

Yup, I was broken up about that unfortunate university situation. Maybe, things can be edited to get the spelling of Stan's name right. I do hope though that it gets cback pointed in a helpful direction.

Claudio and I just remembered.....one portion of the restoration we forgot to detail completely! Didn't even mention it. Partly because we did it so long ago. LOL

Sadly we didn't have a third body in the shop to properly record the gun fitting process. But it still happened. Long before most of the other work even began but after the barrels were back, free of defects and in the white, I visited Claudio's workshop for a gun fitting. The end result was getting the LOP, the drop and the cast right. Most of the effort was in giving the stock a little more cast off than it had. For future reference, we concluded that Claudio's fit is almost identical to mine. Now if only I could get my shooting identical to his! LOL

Here is the one photo we have of the process.....in the middle of heating and bending the stock to give it the extra cast off.

Hey cback, only if it's okay to ask. Ball park, what temp. are you folks running the oil at, and how much time did it have to work until it was ready to start applying a little pressure?

Does Claudio use a fixture? Also I've always heard most people take off the trigger guard to do a bend. Did he leave it on?

Craig and Mark, same answer for both. I don't post details of Claudio's methodology without clearing it with him first. I will ask and get back with answers of one sort or another. Or he may see this and decide to answer himself.

Mark,
Notice the TG is not screwed in to the action.
Steve

Didn't see that Steve,Thanks

I assume the idea is to limit the bend to areas behind the grip and the trigger guard. The trigger guard would give some support to the area where the bend is not wanted. My collection of crossover guns piques my interest in bending.

Good eye Steve...

Bill...the idea is to protect the thin areas of the inletting around the trigger guard during the bending procedure....truth is one never knows what to expect when working with 100 year old wood, so you learn to take precautions.
The bend takes place mostly trough the grip area, the trigger guard is there only for the above reason, I don't want it to resist the bend... and because these are case hardened and very tough they don't give, so I left if unscrewed to allow it to move freely.
If after the procedure it no longer conforms to the original inletting, it needs to be refitted.
If you think fitting metal to wood is tricky...try modifying metal to fit existing inletting.

All best

CJ

Duplicate post.

CJ, so I was incorrect in my assumption. However, at my very limited skill level, I would rather not get into the refitting of metal to wood. Three of my crossover guns are way too high for me and I have decided that the easiest and cheapest solution is to lose about forty pounds.

Cheapest, probably, easiest, not for me....

Well it has been a while since this thread was near the top. I had hoped to finish it off with a nice picture or two of Claudio and I with some big greenheads or canvasbacks from a fall 2020 hunting excursion. I thought that would be a fitting end to the story. However, while we had a trip planned to the Lake St Clair area in late November, Covid concerns caused us both to decide against the shoot. We both have pre existing conditions we would rather not test. So the pics of the gun afield will have to wait.

However, much like movies these days, I will leave an Easter Egg here. Coming in 2021..... I have acquired another Lindner Daly Diamond Quality.

This new one is one of the ultra rare 20 gauge guns. And like most of what I buy, it will need a little of Claudio's magic. So I will be either starting a new thread or resurrecting this thread sometime in 2021 when we get started on it.

And as luck would have it, what the new 20 gauge gun requires in the way of attention is entirely different than what the 12 gauge needed. The 12 gauge main problems were the barrel dents and the ejectors. This gun has a wood problem. Should be a fun ride.

Stay tuned!

looking forward to seeing the next installment...

A 20 Gauge Linder Daly Diamond grade? Wow! Congrats CB! That is a really nice find and more than likely, deserving of Claudio's work.

I'm looking forward to seeing the new gun - and the restoration process. Best thread of 2020!

Ken

Congrats CB. I'm glad you have the energy and commitment for another major project.

Thanks Bill. If only it were just ONE more project. Hahaha.

Well, it's been a long journey.

The snowbirds I bought the new Daly from departed for warmer climes just as we were completing our deal last November. And I didn't want a rush packing job done by people who had never shipped a gun in their almost 80 years. So we agreed to wait until their return at the start of April and in the meantime I sent them a heavy duty aluminum full length travel case (bought for taking rifles to Africa).

The case held the Daly and two Francotte 28 gauge guns just fine and they arrived today. Our respective governments don't make things easy. Diamond Quality Model 275 circa 1906. 20 gauge. 26" barrels. 5 pounds 9 oz. Looking forward to bringing it to life like the 12 gauge. Here's a couple quick snaps of the Daly.

We are looking forward to the show also. Awesome find!

Wow, that 20 is spectacular!

The design and execution of that engraving is absolutely incredible! Looking forward to sharing the trip with you!

James, that one is stunning. What a quail/woodcock gun that would be!

Wow! Words didn't do it justice...

Envious....

Why can’t I find guns like that???? Geez....

Canvasback,
You are planning to do a re-stock, right?
JR

Yup. Very bad crack through the wrist repaired a very long time ago with metal straps inletted into the wood on both sides of the wrist. Rest of the gun is excellent.

That is a beautiful shotgun, James.
Keep us posted as the re-stoking progresses.
Bill

Pics of the Francotte?

Perhaps in another thread at another time.

Took me a while to find this again. New post shortly.

Well, it's finally time to wrap up the saga of the restoration of my 12 gauge Lindner-made Charles Daly Diamond Quality model 275. What started as a un-shootable basket-case (although it looked pretty good) has finally come full circle and made it back to the duck marshes it was originally destined for when it left the bench in Herr Lindner's shop more than a century ago. Covid and it's resulting lockdowns and restrictions made getting this gun back into action a much more drawn out affair than I originally imagined but all is well now that it's gone BOOM and ducks have fallen.

There was a meeting of fine double guns over the last couple days as we hunted out of the famed Mud Creek Club on Lake St Clair. Pretty sure even former member Henry Ford would have been pleased to be using some of the guns on hand. Thanks to the kind invitation of AR15meister, Claudio and I joined Adam and his father to hunt the famed marshes of Lake St Clair, sandwiched between Detroit and Port Huron. With that kind invitation, it was a given the Daly would get the call but Adam is pretty keen on big vintage duck guns so he made sure Claudio brought a gun a few of you may remember from threads on this site now nearly a decade old....his big B grade Fox with the 32' barrels and that spectacular beavertail forend, if you can call it that. We just call it The Big B and, ten years after first seeing it, I still think it's the most beautiful double I have ever seen. Adam also brought his own, very fine 12 gauge SuperFox, recently restocked along with receiving new metal finishes by member Chris Dawe. It is a gun that deserves it's own thread. Adam's father Wally doesn't have quite the same enthusiasm for vintage doubles but he humoured us by bringing a very nice late 1950's (I think) Browning Superposed.

While the volume of ducks coming into the spread was a little thinner than we might have hoped (the weather was just too lovely) there were enough to keep us alert and watchful. The lack of waterfowl within range may have had something to do with the amount of laughter being generated in each of the two duckboats. But, as many of you know, it's not always about the limit and we all left yesterday having enjoyed a great time. Claudio made one shockingly good shot that had two big greenheads falling dead as stones from a single shot. By chance we all got a clear view of that event. Fittingly the first duck I dropped with the Daly was a nice Canvasback drake. Here are a few photos. There are more but I'm having some computer issues and will try to post when I get them problems worked out.

Thank you all for following along this adventure with me. I had hoped that, this group being who you are, you would enjoy seeing a start to finish restoration by someone as talented as Claudio. And I think I was right. You did like it. As I alluded to earlier in the year, there is a new project getting teed up. Hopefully sometime in 2022 we will start anew with this 12 gauge Daly's new companion, a Lindner made Charles Daly Diamond Quality model 275 20 gauge. I hope you will join Claudio and I for that one as well.

My view for a couple days:

Claudio on the right:

From left, me, Adam, Wally & Claudio:

View of the club from the canal.

I think this is pretty obvious:

Great to see such a grand old gun back in action. Looks like fine company as well.

Nice club.

Thanks, James.

That is a very nice clubhouse, and I know you enjoyed being with your friends there. The canvasback drake is indeed a fitting trophy for the completed 12 ga. Lindner Daly. Well done, and thanks. I, for one, would like to see more about Adam's restored Super Fox.

Here's Claudio with his true double of mallard drakes:


And here we are in front of Mud Creek:


And this one is one of our guides, Jake, and myself heading out the first afternoon.

Wonderful! Thanks for sharing this adventure with us, Canvasback.

I echo Steve's comments. You were fortunate to have such a fine setting to audition your "new" double.

I sure miss seeing Claudio at the Southern Side by Side. See you in April. Bill Murphy in MD.

Just beautiful James. Fitting wrap-up for a great story.

As one of the guys in the pic I can attest to the quality and detail on this Lindner Daly. I am pretty sure I shouldered it about 40 times in the evening while enjoying libations and discussing the days hunt and fine guns. What a great thread. As a car lover and a lover of restorations of beautiful worthy antique guns I really enjoyed reading this and seeing the process. I have also been lucky enough to spend time with Claudio in his shop. James is one of the best guys out there and always willing to share his knowledge. He is 90% to blame for introducing me to this world of double guns and we are all lucky to have someone share this process in such detail with us. Claudio is a true master and a gentleman. Not to mention a great shot. Awesome thread. Cant wait for the next one!

Claudio is a stand up guy and a man of his word. I ran into him the second time at the Rhode Island Vintage Cup (the later one) and he had a gun with wood "to die for". He recognized me and we got to talking and I explained I had ordered a gun from CSMC and Lou was going to choose the wood for me. A picture of the wood on his gun would be very helpful. We all had flip phones at the time so no camera. Two weeks later I received the pics from him via email. I really did not expect him to remember nor bother. I sent the pics to Lou. The gun is gorgeous thanks to Claudio.

What gun did you order from CSMC? Thanks, your friend from MD, Murphy

I ordered a 20g Inverness with 30" barrels and received it in March of 2014. I love it and shoot it well. It was an introductory price plus $800 more for exhibition wood. The picture of the stock from Claudio was from a CSMC $100,000 gun. Lou said the wood cost almost as much as the gun I ordered so forget it. He picked the perfect one for me. I could not be happier with the wood and the gun.

I miss talking with you Murphy. It has been a long time.

I'm back....with more tales of Daly restorations.

I know that I teased you all with the 20 Gauge Lindner-made Daly Diamond last May but that one continues to languish while Claudio and I get our ducks in a row. In the mean time, we have another, somewhat simpler but hopefully similarly interesting Charles Daly Diamond restoration to talk about.

This one will be a little shorter and quicker as there were fewer problems. But I hope it will tide us over until the 20 gauge takes centre stage.

The subject of the current discussion is a Prussian Charles Daly Diamond Quality Model 275 12 gauge circa 1925. Astute followers of Charles Daly guns will immediately recognize this as a non H A Lindner gun. At the moment, we are speculating the gun was made by Robert Schuler but that's not definitive. While I must admit to an automatic bias in favour of Lindner-made guns, this one eventually won me over.

It starts with the size and weight of the gun. As it sits now, almost completed, it is a 6 pound 7 ounce 28" barreled gun choked mod and full. My favorite upland hunting guns, regardless of gauge, have always been between 6 1/4 and 6 3/4 pounds. So this one is in the dead centre of that sweet spot. And while the bulk of the restoration was taking place, Claudio was fitting the gun to his personal measurements. It just happens that my fit is almost identical to Claudio's fit, so when I finally picked up the assembled gun, rather than just one component or another, it fit like a glove. Whatever resistance I had to a non-Lindner gun just melted away.

With a friend like Claudio, I would be stupid not to listen carefully to his assessments of guns that come into our orbit. Last fall, when this one first surfaced, I must admit I was a bit of a skeptic regarding quality of a non Lindner gun. Surely the quality had to have slipped. But every time I was over to Claudio's shop, or was on the phone with him, I'd hear a growing admiration for the build quality of this gun. I think the final assessment came down to that it was every bit the equal to the Lindner guns we have looked at. The areas of exception are the engraving and the barrels. The game scene portions of the engraving are fantastic, as well done as my Lindners. However the other engraving is of a simpler, less time consuming style. But still extremely well done. And it's Claudio's opinion that a key benefit to a post WWI gun is noticeably better steel in the barrels.

The gun is still with Claudio, getting a final adjustment to the ejectors (damn all ejectors!) and I still have to pry the progress photos out of him but they will come. In the mean time, here's a pic to whet your appetite.

wow, an double wow!

thank you...

Beautiful gun, James.
Is there an easy way to tell that it is a Lindner---does he uses initials, or such?

Thanks Bill.

Yes there is a relatively easy way to tell a Lindner gun.

First, they were all made prior to 1914. Lindner had a trade mark.......prior to 1891 it was a pair of crossed pistols with a crown above. When Prussia created a proof house in 1891, they reserved the use of a crown mark for the proof house. So Lindner had to change his mark. Which he did....he kept the crossed pistols but replaced the crown with his own initials......HAL.

This Daly Diamond first crossed paths with Claudio in the fall of 2019. As often happens, Claudio was asked to give the gun a once over and assess condition. The gun was for sale but at a price Claudio thought was a little high. He made an offer, it was rejected and that was that. The gun disappeared back to wherever good project guns go.

Fast forward to the Fall of 2021, Claudio got a call from a friend letting him know the gun had turned up in a gunshop that is local to both of us. In Ontario there aren't a whole lot of gunshops where vintage SxS regularly hang out so it's not surprising word got back to Claudio quickly. There was a big difference this time. The gun was priced appropriately, in Claudio's opinion, and he wasted no time in making a deal for it.

Now I'm not the only one with a Charles Daly in the neighbourhood. Claudio picked up a very nice Lindner Daly Featherweight several years ago and has really enjoyed that gun. I had seen the listing for it but the ad said nothing about 'Featherweight" and the price seemed high for a non Diamond Quality gun. So I passed on it. Claudio did a bit more poking at it, got a view of the rib inscribed with "Featherweight" and wasted no time making it his. I still kick myself for not being thorough enough on that one. The point being that he loves shooting that gun and it is one more Daly that he found impressive. So when this Daly Diamond surfaced, Claudio was buying it for himself.

As most of us know, bad things can happen to 100 year old guns. Luckily, not a whole lot had been done to this one. No one had tried to refinish anything since he had first seen the gun.

The metal was in pretty good order. However it was clear the wood needed some attention. There was an wood extension on it, plus a ugly pad. It had a cheek piece that neither he nor I are fans of. And it had an excessive amount of drop. However it wasn't all bad. It still retained the curve where the original butt plate had been. Given that Claudio was intending to keep and shoot this gun, he began to plan some changes......

One of the first things Claudio did to the gun was bend it upwards. The original dimensions, as it often the case, had entirely too much drop. So bending the stock upwards was the order of the day. It had a ways to go....when he was done, Claudio had moved it up 3/4" at the heel. With this much movement it isn't surprising that the case hardened trigger guard needed refitting after the bend. The stock also got a little cast off added to it.

As work got started on the wood, it was time to look at the metal. It started with a thorough strip and clean and like the previous gun we profiled, the results of the ultrasonic cleaning are stunning:

Before:



After:

Amazing that it would clean up to show that much color.

What is the drop at the heel now? Most vintage doubles have too little drop for my taste, so I want to bend them down.

Stunning after a good ultra sonic cleaning. S

Brent, drop at the heel is now at 2 1/4”. Which means it started out at around 3”.

It’s interesting because the two Lindner Diamond Dalys I have both had DAH at around 2 1/4”. And the Lindner Daly model 118 is 2 1/2”. The stock bending that took place on the first restoration covered in the thread was really just putting some cast off into the stock.

We typically think of DAH as coming down over time but this is an example of it going the other way. My guess is Herr Lindner had specific views on what the DAH and DAC should be that were somewhat ahead of his time.

Probably a very silly question, but does ultrasonic cleaning simply expose case colouring that is there under the accumulated crud, or does the process in some way re-activate the colours on the surface layer.

Either way the results are most impressive.

Anything special used in the ultrasonic mixture?

My understanding is it simply cleans away that which might be covering the colours. On the first gun, if you go back and look, no colours were visible. After cleaning the colours exposed were lovely and muted. On this gun, colours were quite evident before see started. And they really pop now.

Just soap and water. If you look at page two of this thread a number of posters offer up specific soaps and solutions.

the restoration of colors is nothing short of astonishing...looking forward to this project being recorded pictorially.

best regards,

tom

Well today we have a little progress on the forend.

A complete strip and clean of the forend wood often makes some of the component pieces fall apart. Notice the horn tip off to the side. At least with this gun, we didn't have to make a new horn tip.



As is often the case, some of the wood had been damaged beyond repair and needed to be replaced. On the first Daly it was really just at various small points along the bead edge. With this one it was a fairly substantial piece that needed to be spliced in.



And now we have the tip back on properly and the rest of the forend in good shape.



Here's what that splice looks like when it's all finished.

While on the subject of the wood, there were similar issues with the stock. When stripping and prepping, the oval and the little grip tip dislodged and needed to be re-installed properly.




We also needed to do a little reshaping of the trigger guard tang. Of course, when bending the stock, the bend then changes how the tang needs to fit so some work was done to get the tang to conform properly in its new location. Claudio did this particularly well....when your hand grips the wrist, it is a seamless transition across the wood and metal.

The next bit of work was on the ejector box. You all are probably familiar with the iconic "cats eye" locator pins on Prussian Daly ejectors. Both pins had been somewhat mangled and not just the slots. They both had their threads stripped, just spinning in place.

The original pins had to be removed and the whole assembly dismantled. Then new pins were made and hardened.






The stripped holes were plugged and then re-tapped.





Finally the whole assembly put back together. Happily the rest of the ejector system is working quite well. In fact it was working well prior to discovering these pins had been stripped.

Great work, thanks for the demonstration.
Mike

I absolutely love your running photo documentary of Claudio’s superb work, Cback. Please put up as much as you can for our enjoyment and education.
JR

Glad you are enjoying it Mike and John. Have no plans to quit. It's simply limited by Claudio's time (he's got a bit of a backlog these days) and my gun money supply. LOL As I mentioned earlier, we have a Lindner Daly Diamond 20 gauge waiting in the wings. So we aren't short of suitable candidates.

Canvasback,
Following this thread has been very enjoyable. I've seen Claudio's work in a gun book before, simply amazing! I appreciate you effort to share>
Karl

This is one of the better threads I can remember ever reading here. Thanks to you James, and Claudio, for the excellent pics and for sharing them with us.

Excellent question. I agree that the ultrasonic cleaning "uncovers" the original colors. I recall a photograph that Oscar Gaddy included in his wonderful two part treatise on cch that showed what the surface of cch steel looks like under an electron microscope. It is an amazing picture showing crystalline shaped forms that comprise the surface. These refract light in such a way as to cause the eye to see the colors. Even though the surface feels very smooth to the touch, those shapes are present, until worn away, at which time the colorful effects are lost. It just stands to reason that years of accumulated dirt and grime can work it's way between those minute, shaped, structures on the surface, causing the light to no longer be refracted, by being blocked.

Actually, the cleaning away of all that grime does constitute a "re-activation" I guess.

Stan,

Thank you, that explains very clearly what the process is achieving and how such dramatic results occur.

Claudio has talents that people would die to have! And your documentary and pics are superb.

This whole string is both enjoyable and educational!

Seeing how Claudio or Dewey expertly fix problems is very enlightening. Too often we see half-ass repairs or worse passed off as the proper way to fix things just because they are faster, easier and cheaper.

The difference being Claudio seems to be a genuinely nice gentleman, whereas Dewey can be pissed off just by telling him "good morning". But wow, does he ever know gun work.

JR

He doesn't just seem to be John, he really is. Always a pleasure to visit his shop.

Great thread Canvasback! I'm looking forward to the next installment. Similar to your Daly, Dewey Vicknair recently repaired the forend wood on my Daly. He did a tremendous job fixing the repairs of a gunsmith without his (or Claudio's) talents. Link -
https://vicknairgunsmithing.blogspot.com/2021/12/a-20-gauge-daly-ble.html

Very nice Ken. Thanks for the link. I just don’t get tired of seeing the work of these craftsmen. They are both masterful!

If we went back to the previous page and looked at the original listing for this gun, we can see the tired old pad on the buttstock. Time for something fresh. So, after careful consideration that took all of a couple minutes, the decision was made to do a leather covered pad. We don't have much in the way of in-process photos but here are a few of the finished pad.

Beautiful !!!

It’s nice to see a leather covered pad flush to the stock sides.
The pad needed to be ground smaller than the butt by the anticipated final thickness of the leather.
Well done Claudio!

Beautiful work.

What species of leather? And what brand of pad underneath?

🐖 the pad is a no name brand…old stock I have

CJ

Keep it coming. Gorgeous gun. Wonderful work!

Jon, I was just re-reading the last page or two, getting ready to make a new post and was struck by how true your statement is. I'm not always able to replicate the conversations Claudio and I have but it's fascinating to listen to him describe the sleuthing he does, working back upstream from the obvious problem, to determine the real origins of what has gone wrong. And very often, those origins were completely missed during previous attempts to fix the issues, so problems are never really solved. Only kicked down the road.

It's not just these guns we've talked about. Over the last couple years he did two different very high grade Greeners, both of which required really thoughtful analysis by a guy at the top of his game, to determine the real problems. Not just the symptoms. And over the years there have been numerous others I have seen on his bench.

The problem for me, if I can call it a problem, is Claudio has educated me so thoroughly, that it is impossible for me now to accept any other approach. It gets costly. LOL. Hmmm, maybe that was his nefarious plan all along! Hahaha!

I think we are pretty much at the end of this latest project. As I mentioned near the start, this gun was in pretty good shape to begin with. Only a few areas that needed to be addressed to let it shine again.

We fixed up the the nicks in the wood. Bent the stock. Removed the cheek piece. Replaced the tired old pad with a new leather covered beauty. gave it a beautiful new hand rubbed oil finish. Thoroughly cleaned the metal in the ultrasonic cleaner. Fixed the stripped pins on the two "cats eyes" ejector locators. And made some very minute adjustments to the ejector timing.

Here's the finished product.

Thanks for posting, that is just beautiful!

So, what will you do with this gun, now that it is done, or nearly so?

I hope it sees a lot of time in the field somewhere. It certainly is a beauty.

Very nice work and gun. Gil

Brent I have every expectation it will become one of my go-to upland guns.

Currently my favourite is my Lovena sidelock. This year I am adding this Charles Daly and finishing the restock and restoration of my Sauer sidelock. All three guns are slightly sub 6 1/2 pounds, two with 28” barrels and one with 29” barrels. Obviously I have to spend time shooting the two new additions to make sure they fulfill their promise but, while accounting for their different chokes, my expectation is those three will handle the bulk of my hunting needs.

Can't get much better than that. Good luck with them, but whether the hunting is good or not, you will be looking good out there. No doubt about that.