So what is the most desirable vintage American made 410 sXs field/utility grade 410?? The Lefever Nitro 410, Hunter Arms Hunter 410 ,Fulton 410, Crescent Arms or what??

Parker VH .410

OK I'm interested in utility grade American 410's. You could buy a boat load of utility grade 410's for the cost of a Parker VH 410, not interested in spending big $$$'s.. Iver Johnson Empire---or???

https://ironmenarms.com/listings.php?id=653

Cresents are ok if the pitch is usable

https://www.gunbroker.com/Side-By-Side-S...amp;PageSize=24

Nitros always seemed boxy to me

https://www.gunbroker.com/Side-By-Side-S...=Lefever%20Arms

Iver Johnson Skeeter

The prices for a Crescent "Quail Hammerless" have risen far beyond their quality.
They seem to have a cult following for some reason.

Here 'ya go Craig. A gen-u-whine .410 CresMith!





Everyone remember the .410 Crescent Rigby? Probably still out there

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=326359

Probably better steel in the parts of a Lefever Nitro Special than in a Crescent.

Probably the very best of the second tier American .410-bores would be the Lefever A-Grades, but in .410-bore they are so scarce they seem to command as much as a Field Grade Ithaca NID .410-bore.

That gun marked THE "SPORTSMAN'S CLEVELAND" is actually a "trade branded" version of a Springfield No. 311.

People are asking $5000+ for an IJ Skeeter.

bill

“So what is the most desirable vintage American made 410 sXs field/utility grade 410??” You never said you were looking to buy anything so:
Parker VH .410

The field grade LC Smith .410s ask no quarter, either. Beautiful, and highly sought after, guns.

SRH

Just one man's opinion, but except for trading stock I wouldn't trade a good 20 gauge DS grade Lefever for the whole lot of them.

Craig,

If you'd like to see how an Ithaca Lefever Nitro Special .410 with 26" barrels feels, I'd be happy to let you try mine. Choked Mod and Full and the stock measures about 14" x 1 5/8" x 2 1/2" but it seems to feel a little shorter. This is a late one with SN 356464 and 3"chambers.

I've shot a lot of cotton tail rabbits, some grouse and even a couple pheasants when we had wild ones.

I got the gun more than 50 years ago from Pearson's Gun Shop in Auburn, NY for $150.00 plus $7.50 tax.

You are welcome to see how it handles. Send me an email if you'd like to try it and we can work out the details.

The last coupla years I shot kick-em-up quail, I used a Lefever/Ithaca Nitro Special very like the post above. Fun to use, but if I were still hunting quail I'd rather shoot a 20ga. The first "collecting" double I bought was an A Grade Nitro Special 20 from the old Cape Outfitters...Geo

I enjoy guns that are about the same condition as they left the store the first time.

I agree they can be both beautiful and interesting, however I find it a little sad that unused they have not met their purpose to exist which is to be used and loved. Whenever I see a gun in true original mint condition decades after it was made, it feels like it is still birthed or waiting to leave the womb to live.

The Field Grade L.C. Smith .410-bore is the most common of the higher grade .410s, with 2375 produced. Ithaca produced 790 Field Grade .410-bores and Parker Bros. produced 469 VH-/VHE-Grade .410-bores. Parker Bros. didn't offer their entry-level gun, the Trojan Grade in .410-bore. In the 1929 Stoeger Catalog No. 10, the Parker Bros. VH-Grade listed at $68, the L.C. Smith Field Grade listed at $40 and the Field Grade Ithaca NID listed at $37.50.

Thanks Dave, a NID would be my first choice in that group as it has many similar characteristics mechanically with a Fox.Being a western NY lifetime resident has always attracted me to Ithaca and LC Smith manufactured guns, A Elsie would be a nice choice but obtaining a decent example is a 5$++ purchase. A Parker VH 410 would be nice but crazy money. So I think it's a Ithaca Lefever Nitro 410 as a starter in average condition for me. Maybe a nice Fulton and a higher condition Nitro in the future, or as NID. Got to have goals.

Be very careful to test the waters, Craig. The .410 path is fraught with temptations and attractions. I found myself on that path about 9 years ago, because of my grandsons. It has become quite a surprising walk for a hardcore duckman used to heavily loaded 12s.

You may be "evolving".

SRH

.410s are a dangerous addiction. I started as a casual user and I now have seven of the little buggers. Two each SxS, O/U, and pumps, plus the dreaded semi auto. I am either evolved or hooked.

A gunsmith friend went through a very serious health crisis a couple of years ago and when he finally survived, he retired and bought a pair of guns he had always wanted: a Model 42 Skeet (appears to be legit), and another 42 solid rib field grade. Now he's spending large quantities of cash on non-tox for ducks with a .410.

Stevens 311? My first double. Wonder how those tenite stocks are holding up? Shot it only a year before picking up a Sauer Model 8 16ga for $35 from a WWII vet. Still shooting that gun 70 years lataer.

Vintage .410 doubles are ridiculously expensive. Modern .410 guns like the ones made in Turkey cost about the same as any other gauge, and are likely better built than the vintage guns anyway. The choice seems clear to me...Geo

I shot at Hausmann's last spring, with a member here, Stanley H?, and his son, and they had a beautiful ICD 410.

The son shot it mercilessly over me, LOL, and it was beautiful too!

If it's going to be shot, an ICD wouldn't be a bad choice.

Savage / Stevens 5100
Better stock dimensions than the 311 and a work horse.
Reasonably priced too.

[quote=ClapperZapper]I shot at Hausmann's last spring, with a member here, Stanley H?, and his son, and they had a beautiful ICD 410.

Hey Clapper, the pleasure was all ours that day. Have been meaning to get in contact with you and see how you're doing.

The 410 we were shooting that day was an Ithaca NID Field grade with SST, Straight Grip, with a Beaver tail fore end.

Craig, I'm biased but I would recommend an Ithaca, NID, Lefever A grade, or a Nitro Special. The market seemed to be going softer on them in the last year, where 5 years back you couldn't find any NID 410 for less than $5,000.

Stan

Happy Easter, Stanley! Hope all is well.

My mistake, it's a lovely gun.
I hope it's being shot regularly, and successfully.
I'm guessing your son is much taller now. They do that.

Had some surgery,and since then, my numbers have been good.
So, a rich diet, and a life of adventure is more likely to kill me than Cancer, at the moment.
Life can turn on a dime, so I don't wait anymore.

That’s great to hear, it really impressed me how you were facing uncertainty of meeting your doctor about cancer and you decided to go do something you enjoyed.
Hopefully we can shoot at Hausman’s in June and we would enjoy sharing a cart with you and breaking some clay targets again.

May you enjoy your Easter,
Stan

Don't forget the Fox Model B:







Just a gussied up Savage. Older is better

If you are developing a severe hankering for a .410 double, there are quite a few in the upcoming Morphy online auction. You will need to wade through quite a few pages of military stuff, but the rewards, in terms of double rifles and shotguns, are definitely worth it.

This disaster of a gun was the first thing I thought of when I saw the title to this post. I think it got up to 4K in the auction before they finally agreed to pull it.

Wish I could find an Elsie .410. I mean find it, like in a garage sale or an elderly relative's closet, not buy one off the internet!..Geo

Just remembered, I have no elderly relatives, I'm the oldest guy in the family. Well, that's a revolting development!

So I purchased a nice original but well used Lefever Nitro 410 from early 20's 203104. I believe the stock was cut to 13 1/2" so I added a silvers pad. My gun has the rounded pistol grip, it appears that later guns had better stock dimensions and a capped pistol grip. What did the early Ithaca catalogs or ads say about LOP?? I have turned my nose up at Lefever Nitro's but they really are solid guns but modestly (I won't say poorly because they were price sensitive entry level shotguns) finished. It's always fun to discover something new in vintage American made shotguns.

One of my guilty pleasures is a no-name Spanish .410 SxS that I picked up for little money. PG, splinter, DT, but 28” barrels and tight chokes. Took it out for doves in September with skeet loads and it killed 15 birds in short order and then jammed shut on the last bird. Repairs cost more than the gun would be worth to anyone else, but it’s a keeper for me.

The first Lefever Arms Co., Inc. flyer to include the .410-bore, states the length-of-pull for the .410-bore stocks was 13 1/2 inches --



The 1928 dated flyer still pictures the half-pistol grip stock. The 1929 dated Lefever poster shows the capped pistol grip on the Nitro Specials. The Oct. 1, 1930 poster is the last to mention the 13 1/2 inch length-of-pull stocks for the .410-bore. Between the 1934 and 1935 posters the drop-at-heel goes from 2 7/8 inch to 2 3/4 inch.

Thanks Dave I always appreciate your input and knowledge.